If Parkinson doesn't get us promoted with this squad what is their to suggest he would get us up with the much, much worse squad that he'll have at his disposal next season ?
Comparrisons with Curbs are silly, we have one of the best squads in this division, we have probably the best midfield which we haven't made enough use of.
I'm confident we can go up, even more so after yesterday, but not going up is unacceptable.
[cite]Posted By: se9addick[/cite]If Parkinson doesn't get us promoted with this squad what is their to suggest he would get us up with the much, much worse squad that he'll have at his disposal next season ?
If we don't get promoted the expectation cannot be promotion unfortunately. Something to aim for maybe. If we finish third on goal difference, and are unlucky to lose in the play-off final in the last minute, would that be completely unacceptable and right to change the manager?
[cite]Posted By: se9addick[/cite]Comparrisons with Curbs are silly, we have one of the best squads in this division, we have probably the best midfield which we haven't made enough use of.
Based on what? We have a talented midfield yes, but who has watched Norwich or Leeds enough to say our midfield is better than theirs? They probably say the same thing. I can see they are good players for this league, but I can't say for certain any of them are the best in the whole division in their positions.
Nah, I'm sorry. If Parkinson doesn't take us up this year then he will have done nothing to deserve his place. We were shocking last season which got blamed on Pardew (even though it was Parkinson in charge for about 6 and a half months of it). This was his second chance. The goal was obvious and clearly defined from the start. I don't think firing Parky at the end of the season would be a knee jerk reaction in the vein of Dowie, Reed etc.
Of course losing in the last second of the play-off final would be extremely cruel, but those are very specific circumstances. Surely it's more pressing to talk about what would happen should we not be promoted in general rather than debate over the very specific detail of a completely hypothetical situation.
Oh, and re the midfield - that's my opinion, it might not be everyone's but that's just hows I see it. Jonjo Shelvy doesn't even get in our squad at the mo which I think is indicative of the stregnth of our midfield. And I'm not sure Leeds would claim to be the best in any position right now !!
[cite]Posted By: se9addick[/cite]Of course losing in the last second of the play-off final would be extremely cruel, but those are very specific circumstances. Surely it's more pressing to talk about what would happen should we not be promoted in general rather than debate over the very specific detail of a completely hypothetical situation.
Surely how we finish the season and perform makes a huge difference? If we're terrible for the rest of the season, but scrap the play-offs and get promoted, there will be a lot of doubts about Parky next season. If we finish the season really well but are unlucky, and team spirit is as good as it can be, wouldn't it be wrong to sack the manager?
I can understand what you're saying, the target is promotion, and if we fail you can argue the manager has to go. For me it's also about how it happens, how we perform, do the players want to play for the manager etc. Not as simple as promotion, keep Parky, no promotion, sack him.
[cite]Posted By: se9addick[/cite]Oh, and re the midfield - that's my opinion, it might not be everyone's but that's just hows I see it. Jonjo Shelvy doesn't even get in our squad at the mo which I think is indicative of the stregnth of our midfield. And I'm not sure Leeds would claim to be the best in any position right now !!
Our recent form has only been slightly better than theirs though...
My point really was that other clubs fans probably say they've got the best midfield in the league. We have strength in depth, but that's not the same thing. Without watching Norwich or whoever regularly, I don't see how you can really say we definitely have the best midfield in the league. I know what you mean though.
[cite]Posted By: Merty111[/cite]Weve only lost 4 games! Parky to stay wether we go up or stay in league 1.
Quite. No team in any of the divisions has lost fewer league games this season and some people think we should ditch the manager. Utterly, utterly ridiculous.
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]I fear finances dictate he has to stay whatever happens. For my money I would try to persuade Gary Neville to come as player manager.
I'd genuinely refuse to attend if that prick was in charge. I utterly despise him
agree with your point about gary neville swisdom, hes a twat, bit of a random suggestion, dont really see that he has any of the credentials required to take us forward.
i understand the point that you are making chizz about only losing 4 games... however, although it may sound harsh, i dont think he deserves a great deal of credit for it. he has made a couple of decent signings ( richardson / dailly / reid) but has also made several very mediocre signings (llera / mooney / burton) and much of the reason why we are up the top in this league are because he inherited a squad of several good championship players (racon / semedo / bailey / sam) which he should arguably have kept up in the first place - although we were plummeting when pardew left, we were still very close to the pack and well in with a shout of moving comfortably clear of relegation - instead parkinson oversaw an appalling run which condemned us to relegation by a country mile.
i think we need to get behind him this season as he is here til may and very possibly / probably longer due to financial constraints, and as you point out we are in with a shout of promotion - however, i just don't think parkinson has made much positive contribution to charlton as manager - and i certainly think that there are probably plenty of other managers out there who would be within our radar in terms of level and finance who could have done at least as well.
[cite]Posted By: paulsturgess[/cite]agree with your point about gary neville swisdom, hes a twat, bit of a random suggestion, dont really see that he has any of the credentials required to take us forward.
i understand the point that you are making chizz about only losing 4 games... however, although it may sound harsh, i dont think he deserves a great deal of credit for it. he has made a couple of decent signings ( richardson / dailly / reid) but has also made several very mediocre signings (llera / mooney / burton) and much of the reason why we are up the top in this league are because he inherited a squad of several good championship players (racon / semedo / bailey / sam) which he should arguably have kept up in the first place - although we were plummeting when pardew left, we were still very close to the pack and well in with a shout of moving comfortably clear of relegation - instead parkinson oversaw an appalling run which condemned us to relegation by a country mile.
i think we need to get behind him this season as he is here til may and very possibly / probably longer due to financial constraints, and as you point out we are in with a shout of promotion - however, i just don't think parkinson has made much positive contribution to charlton as manager - and i certainly think that there are probably plenty of other managers out there who would be within our radar in terms of level and finance who could have done at least as well.
Burton a mediocre signing? He's one of our most important players, we don't look the same team without him. Not a natural goalscorer no, but that's not why we signed him.
Llera is what we needed, a decent CB at this level, happy to fight for his place if dropped, within the budget we can afford. I don't rate him that highly, but I can see why we signed him and see he is generally doing a decent job for us in the short term.
Mooney I can understand what you're saying, though strikers must be the hardest position to find anyone decent on a free or available for loan.
He does deserve credit. A lot of other managers would have done far worse than he has. I can't prove that but if a new manager had come in and did similar things to Parkinson and had us in this same position, we'd be saying he's done well, deserves credit, but can still improve.
Several good Championship players? More like a handful, and even then Racon, Sam etc aren't consistent at that level, they aren't even consistent in League One. I can't imagine a team challenging for promotion to the Prem with Sam and Racon as regulars in their team. Are they really that good? They have some good Championship attributes, but that's not the same as being good enough all round players.
Pardew completely ruined the team spirit, confidence and belief. Add to that an unbalanced squad, players that weren't right for a relegation battle (Todorov, Ambrose, Hudson, Bouazza while he was still there etc) Parkinson had a lot of work to do. At the time we needed a different type of manager, but considering we'd have all taken 4 defeats and 4th place in League One last summer, he does deserve credit. If he hadn't improved the atmosphere and team spirit, there's no way we'd only have lost 4 league games all season.
[cite]Posted By: paulsturgess[/cite]i think we need to get behind him this season as he is here til may and very possibly / probably longer due to financial constraints, and as you point out we are in with a shout of promotion - however, i just don't think parkinson has made much positive contribution to charlton as manager - and i certainly think that there are probably plenty of other managers out there who would be within our radar in terms of level and finance who could have done at least as well.
Other managers out there, yes, plenty, don't think so. They'd all have been gambles like Parky was as well, a lot of them even more so. If there are so many good managers out there, clubs wouldn't have so many problems finding the right one.
Personally I think Parlky deserves a lot of credit, has been very effective in the market with some excellent signings both permanent and loans. He has also dealt with no money and we've kept hold of all our best players this season. Results have been generally good, although too many draws. We have done remarkably well considering our top striker only has 8 goals from open play and there is no natural goalscorer there and we've only lost 4 league games all season.
However if we do not go up, for whatever reason, Parky should go. If we do not go up, we only have ourselves to blame and the buck will stop with the manager imho. Also not sure how well Parky would do in League 1 without Bailey, Racon, Sam etc, coupled with the fact fans will be very split over him staying and the pressure may be too much.
I have no idea who should replace him though, maybe for another thread this question but would not want Kinsella. Legend as a player but this could be unhinged if he does not do well and the lack of experience would count against him. Especially as if we don't go up, best players will go and finances may be even tighter.
disagree about burton. he was signed as somebody to try and keep us up last season in the championship and was just so, so far away from what we needed and just wasnt good enough at that level. hes more effective at this level but very far from exceptional and i dont think parkinson deserves credit for signing a reasonable league one player who was supposed to be keeping us up in the championship.
disagree about llera. not disputing his attitude but has been shown up several times this season (was utterly appalling against orient the other week and against colchester). just not good enough.
i actually think sam and racon could both be top championship players if they fulfilled their potential (perhaps they would benefit from a manager who could help them do that?)...but regardless of that, he inherited those two, bailey, semedo, who are clearly some of the best midfielders in league one. and with those players, i think we should expect to up the top in this very poor division.
"A lot of other managers would have done far worse than he has."
- nope, no way. i honestly don't think there are many managers who could have done any worse than parkinson did after he took over last season. 6losses and 2 draws in his first 8 games and largely very poor right up until the last few games of the season? i entirely recognise that he took over in difficult circumstances and i also recognise how much he has had his hands tied with regards to signings and agree with what you say about it being difficult to find, for example, good strikers. obviously he has done a lot better this season but we have rarely convinced in our performances and in my opinion a large proportion of the games that we have won have been won simply due to the ineptitude of the opponents and the overall poor standard of the division - we have been able to win these games due to the leftover championship quality which we have (which parky inherited) which has been enough to take us past those weak opponents. there are numerous examples of those - wycombe stands out in my mind particularly when we played really poorly and were dug out of a hole by shelvey and particularly bailey, but i don't think a lot of our games have been won as a result of good organisation and tactics from parkinson - indeed they have been severely lacking on numerous occasions.
i don't like being negative and i am (almost) never one to boo the players or manager, it is unconstructive. i am just concerned that we havent produced a convincing performance for a couple of months and have in many matches looked extremely disorganised and lacking in ideas, and i dont really think thats acceptable. whilst yesterday was a major improvement (with both goals scored by parky signings!), yeovil were another poor side and we could easily have been 2 behind before we took the lead. i am just hoping (as i have been all season) that we can scrape our way up because we aren't as bad as most of the other teams in the division!
[cite]Posted By: paulsturgess[/cite]"A lot of other managers would have done far worse than he has."
- nope, no way. i honestly don't think there are many managers who could have done any worse than parkinson did after he took over last season. 6losses and 2 draws in his first 8 games and largely very poor right up until the last few games of the season? i entirely recognise that he took over in difficult circumstances and i also recognise how much he has had his hands tied with regards to signings and agree with what you say about it being difficult to find, for example, good strikers. obviously he has done a lot better this season but we have rarely convinced in our performances and in my opinion a large proportion of the games that we have won have been won simply due to the ineptitude of the opponents and the overall poor standard of the division - we have been able to win these games due to the leftover championship quality which we have (which parky inherited) which has been enough to take us past those weak opponents. there are numerous examples of those - wycombe stands out in my mind particularly when we played really poorly and were dug out of a hole by shelvey and particularly bailey, but i don't think a lot of our games have been won as a result of good organisation and tactics from parkinson - indeed they have been severely lacking on numerous occasions.
Sorry didn't make it clear I was only talking about this season. I agree other managers (the right type though, plenty wouldn't) would have done better last season.
This season I don't think so, not many managers could have done significantly better. The organisation hasn't always been there, so Parky is criticized. When it is there, it's "because we have leftover Championship players".
Sam and Racon potentially might be good Championship players, but they still lack in too many areas for me. Racon is generally better in a five man midfield when other players handle the defensive side for him, and he has a bit of freedom. With Sam, people talk about his poor finishing, energy, movement, fitness, consistency etc. It's things like that which mean he is some way off being a top Championship winger.
Until yesterday we haven't been as good as we should be, but I still don't think our players are as brilliant as is often suggested. The same thing happened when we got relegated from the Prem, we assumed the likes of Ambrose and Fortune could dominate the division, when in fact they weren't as good as we thought. This season we expected for example Racon to stand out above most midfielders, but he hasn't, and that's more about his lack of all round game and consistency.
Players learn and develop, and I think Parkinson is doing the same as a manager. You say with the team we have we should expect to be up the top of the division, fair enough, but that's just where we are isn't it. I doubt Leeds fans think they're definitely going up or convincing every week, but I get the feeling on here it's seen that Grayson is a fantastic manager while Parky is an average League One manager. With their crowds and size of club shouldn't they be top of the league? They're not because it's not that easy, they can't dominate every game.
I understand all the doubts about Parky, but he does deserve some credit. If it was so simple and the size of the club and quality of players could take a club straight back up, Leeds wouldn't have been down here for more than a season. He was expected by many to take us down and struggle in mid table, even if we kept our better players. With a bad manager that would have happened, we wouldn't have had the start we did, we'd have crumbled more often after going 1-0 down, we wouldn't be in the play-off spots.
yeh fair point about leeds and i agree it is easier said than done to get a big / bigger club out of the division, i just think you have to consider parkys time as a whole with the club - if somebody had taken over last summer and had this season i completely agree i would be pretty satisfied as i was expecting to do a lot worse this season(although i think the main reason we have done better than i thought this season is because i didnt realise how poor the standard is in this league) as we were on such a downward spiral and i wasnt convinced by a large part of the squad we had (e.g. burton), so in that respect parkinson has exceeded my expectations for him this season - but i dont think you can consider this season in isolation for parky as he contributed significantly to the downward spiral and has also had 7 or 8 months longer than a new manager would have had they come in last summer to try to address the weaknesses in the squad (the main one obviously being the lack of a decent striker), get to know the players and organise them better - which is why i find it so alarming that we still frequently appear so disorganised now and he appears so unsure about how and where to use some of our players and what system he favours.
all pretty academic anyway as i suspect he may be here for a while regardless, and he is certainly here until the end of the season so we just need to get behind him and the squad and hope he continues to learn and develop as you suggest.
Like I said, he was the wrong man to keep us up, just not that type of manager. It'll never be forgotten completely, but I think so much of last season was down to mistakes by Pardew. I know Parky worked with him so takes part of the blame, but final decisions came down to Pardew. When one player has no confidence, they need time to build it back up before they can play to their ability. When you have almost an entire squad like that, and various other problems (Yassin doesn't seem to fit in with the squad, no doubt other players didn't last season either), it'll take time to sort it out.
He has made mistakes, I agree, and no he's not the greatest tactician or motivator around, but I do feel he learns from his mistakes. Recently he's tweaked the team too much, trying different things out that are never going to work in the long term (eg Shelvey floating between the left and the middle). With the squad as it is now we at least have some decent options in all positions, it's stronger than it was at the start of the season and luckily we've not lost any important players.
I think Parky should be judged just as any other manager would have been, based on this season. He was given a fresh start by the board, clear out the squad, bring in new staff as well as players, a chance to have a pre-season to work with the squad as manager. I do understand why he's judged on last season as well, but that's over and done with now, it's really a new squad, very different to the one we had at the start of last season. He's a manager that needs time to slowly improve his squad and develop the team, and he's done that well but not perfectly so far.
Like you say the best thing to do is get behind him and the squad. Going to be an interesting last few months to the season and it's a great chance for Parky to prove himself. Lets hope he does.
Reading this thread, I was surprised at how many people seemed to think that this division should be a cake walk. To look at some of the posts you'd think that we were Real Madrid inexplicably transferred to the conference for one season only; that nothing short of 46 victiories by a five goal margin would be acceptable. We'll, I'm sorry to have to be the one to break it to you, but that just ain't the case. Whatever your pre-conceptions are, this isn't an easy league to get out of. I've been studying the stats and the do not make pretty reading. In fact, even I was surprised at how difficult it is. Given what I am about to tell you, I'd say that being 4th with only four defeats all season is bloody good.
The following figures relate to the 30 clubs relegated to Tier 3 football in the ten seasons up to and including 2007-8:
- The average league position of clubs in their first season following relegation to Tier 3 is 12th.
- Only five clubs (17%) got promoted in their first season in Tier 3.
- Four clubs (13%) were relegated after just one season in Tier 3.
- Thirteen clubs (43%) subsequently suffered a further relegation from Tier 3 before gaining any promotions.
- One club is no longer a member of the football league.
Now perhaps some of you are thinking that this doesn't apply because we are a big club because we've been in the Premiership. Well, that doesn't seem to help. Of the nine former Premiership/Premier League clubs to have been relegated in that time only one (11%) bounced back at the first attempt! Indeed three of these even suffered further relegation.
So, it's not as easy as it looks. To expect that we can walk it is unrealistic. At the moment we are doing well and we have a good manager to thank for that.
Yes, keep him, unless there's a very obviously good manager with a proven track record, a hunger for the battle and a knowledge of the lower divisions who's out of contract and willing to take over.
The broader point is that he is a very, very decent human being - unlike other occupants of the manager's chair in SE7 - and he brings to the table many of the things that were at the very core of our glory years, hard work, determination, persistence, honesty and humility.
Of course he doesn't always get it right and makes the odd ricket - who doesn't - but the bloke inherited a complete train wreck and has us now firmly pointing back in the right direction on the playing side regardless of where we end up this season.
Sacking Parkinson would be just about the dumbest move imagineable.
Parky has had a tough job dealing with the debris of the Dowie and Pardew reigns. I cannot see how he could have done much more. Indeed, he is surpassing the position most people predicted for this season's finishing position. His signings have been generally good and, as money is like to be tight for some time to come, making astute signings will continue to be a key part of his job. I think he is not the best manager in world, but what do you expect playing at this level? He does his job pretty well, I think.
excellent set of stats stig. We need him to stay as we need to create stabilty, what's to say if we get rid of parky we wouldn't endure another 2 seasons chopping and changing managers?? reducing morale and stability in the dressing room, no player or coach would feel their job is secure so they will be miserable which means poor results. and who knows another 2 divisions down??? conference football in 2 years anyone???
Where as if we kept parky his knowledege and experience of the team will only get better as will his passion for his job and our club as it did for curbs and we will go up even if it's not this year.
Comments
Comparrisons with Curbs are silly, we have one of the best squads in this division, we have probably the best midfield which we haven't made enough use of.
I'm confident we can go up, even more so after yesterday, but not going up is unacceptable.
Based on what? We have a talented midfield yes, but who has watched Norwich or Leeds enough to say our midfield is better than theirs? They probably say the same thing. I can see they are good players for this league, but I can't say for certain any of them are the best in the whole division in their positions.
Of course losing in the last second of the play-off final would be extremely cruel, but those are very specific circumstances. Surely it's more pressing to talk about what would happen should we not be promoted in general rather than debate over the very specific detail of a completely hypothetical situation.
Oh, and re the midfield - that's my opinion, it might not be everyone's but that's just hows I see it. Jonjo Shelvy doesn't even get in our squad at the mo which I think is indicative of the stregnth of our midfield. And I'm not sure Leeds would claim to be the best in any position right now !!
Surely how we finish the season and perform makes a huge difference? If we're terrible for the rest of the season, but scrap the play-offs and get promoted, there will be a lot of doubts about Parky next season. If we finish the season really well but are unlucky, and team spirit is as good as it can be, wouldn't it be wrong to sack the manager?
I can understand what you're saying, the target is promotion, and if we fail you can argue the manager has to go. For me it's also about how it happens, how we perform, do the players want to play for the manager etc. Not as simple as promotion, keep Parky, no promotion, sack him.
Our recent form has only been slightly better than theirs though...
My point really was that other clubs fans probably say they've got the best midfield in the league. We have strength in depth, but that's not the same thing. Without watching Norwich or whoever regularly, I don't see how you can really say we definitely have the best midfield in the league. I know what you mean though.
I'd genuinely refuse to attend if that prick was in charge. I utterly despise him
i understand the point that you are making chizz about only losing 4 games... however, although it may sound harsh, i dont think he deserves a great deal of credit for it. he has made a couple of decent signings ( richardson / dailly / reid) but has also made several very mediocre signings (llera / mooney / burton) and much of the reason why we are up the top in this league are because he inherited a squad of several good championship players (racon / semedo / bailey / sam) which he should arguably have kept up in the first place - although we were plummeting when pardew left, we were still very close to the pack and well in with a shout of moving comfortably clear of relegation - instead parkinson oversaw an appalling run which condemned us to relegation by a country mile.
i think we need to get behind him this season as he is here til may and very possibly / probably longer due to financial constraints, and as you point out we are in with a shout of promotion - however, i just don't think parkinson has made much positive contribution to charlton as manager - and i certainly think that there are probably plenty of other managers out there who would be within our radar in terms of level and finance who could have done at least as well.
Burton a mediocre signing? He's one of our most important players, we don't look the same team without him. Not a natural goalscorer no, but that's not why we signed him.
Llera is what we needed, a decent CB at this level, happy to fight for his place if dropped, within the budget we can afford. I don't rate him that highly, but I can see why we signed him and see he is generally doing a decent job for us in the short term.
Mooney I can understand what you're saying, though strikers must be the hardest position to find anyone decent on a free or available for loan.
He does deserve credit. A lot of other managers would have done far worse than he has. I can't prove that but if a new manager had come in and did similar things to Parkinson and had us in this same position, we'd be saying he's done well, deserves credit, but can still improve.
Several good Championship players? More like a handful, and even then Racon, Sam etc aren't consistent at that level, they aren't even consistent in League One. I can't imagine a team challenging for promotion to the Prem with Sam and Racon as regulars in their team. Are they really that good? They have some good Championship attributes, but that's not the same as being good enough all round players.
Pardew completely ruined the team spirit, confidence and belief. Add to that an unbalanced squad, players that weren't right for a relegation battle (Todorov, Ambrose, Hudson, Bouazza while he was still there etc) Parkinson had a lot of work to do. At the time we needed a different type of manager, but considering we'd have all taken 4 defeats and 4th place in League One last summer, he does deserve credit. If he hadn't improved the atmosphere and team spirit, there's no way we'd only have lost 4 league games all season.
Other managers out there, yes, plenty, don't think so. They'd all have been gambles like Parky was as well, a lot of them even more so. If there are so many good managers out there, clubs wouldn't have so many problems finding the right one.
However if we do not go up, for whatever reason, Parky should go. If we do not go up, we only have ourselves to blame and the buck will stop with the manager imho. Also not sure how well Parky would do in League 1 without Bailey, Racon, Sam etc, coupled with the fact fans will be very split over him staying and the pressure may be too much.
I have no idea who should replace him though, maybe for another thread this question but would not want Kinsella. Legend as a player but this could be unhinged if he does not do well and the lack of experience would count against him. Especially as if we don't go up, best players will go and finances may be even tighter.
disagree about llera. not disputing his attitude but has been shown up several times this season (was utterly appalling against orient the other week and against colchester). just not good enough.
i actually think sam and racon could both be top championship players if they fulfilled their potential (perhaps they would benefit from a manager who could help them do that?)...but regardless of that, he inherited those two, bailey, semedo, who are clearly some of the best midfielders in league one. and with those players, i think we should expect to up the top in this very poor division.
"A lot of other managers would have done far worse than he has."
- nope, no way. i honestly don't think there are many managers who could have done any worse than parkinson did after he took over last season. 6losses and 2 draws in his first 8 games and largely very poor right up until the last few games of the season? i entirely recognise that he took over in difficult circumstances and i also recognise how much he has had his hands tied with regards to signings and agree with what you say about it being difficult to find, for example, good strikers. obviously he has done a lot better this season but we have rarely convinced in our performances and in my opinion a large proportion of the games that we have won have been won simply due to the ineptitude of the opponents and the overall poor standard of the division - we have been able to win these games due to the leftover championship quality which we have (which parky inherited) which has been enough to take us past those weak opponents. there are numerous examples of those - wycombe stands out in my mind particularly when we played really poorly and were dug out of a hole by shelvey and particularly bailey, but i don't think a lot of our games have been won as a result of good organisation and tactics from parkinson - indeed they have been severely lacking on numerous occasions.
i don't like being negative and i am (almost) never one to boo the players or manager, it is unconstructive. i am just concerned that we havent produced a convincing performance for a couple of months and have in many matches looked extremely disorganised and lacking in ideas, and i dont really think thats acceptable. whilst yesterday was a major improvement (with both goals scored by parky signings!), yeovil were another poor side and we could easily have been 2 behind before we took the lead. i am just hoping (as i have been all season) that we can scrape our way up because we aren't as bad as most of the other teams in the division!
This season I don't think so, not many managers could have done significantly better. The organisation hasn't always been there, so Parky is criticized. When it is there, it's "because we have leftover Championship players".
Sam and Racon potentially might be good Championship players, but they still lack in too many areas for me. Racon is generally better in a five man midfield when other players handle the defensive side for him, and he has a bit of freedom. With Sam, people talk about his poor finishing, energy, movement, fitness, consistency etc. It's things like that which mean he is some way off being a top Championship winger.
Until yesterday we haven't been as good as we should be, but I still don't think our players are as brilliant as is often suggested. The same thing happened when we got relegated from the Prem, we assumed the likes of Ambrose and Fortune could dominate the division, when in fact they weren't as good as we thought. This season we expected for example Racon to stand out above most midfielders, but he hasn't, and that's more about his lack of all round game and consistency.
Players learn and develop, and I think Parkinson is doing the same as a manager. You say with the team we have we should expect to be up the top of the division, fair enough, but that's just where we are isn't it. I doubt Leeds fans think they're definitely going up or convincing every week, but I get the feeling on here it's seen that Grayson is a fantastic manager while Parky is an average League One manager. With their crowds and size of club shouldn't they be top of the league? They're not because it's not that easy, they can't dominate every game.
I understand all the doubts about Parky, but he does deserve some credit. If it was so simple and the size of the club and quality of players could take a club straight back up, Leeds wouldn't have been down here for more than a season. He was expected by many to take us down and struggle in mid table, even if we kept our better players. With a bad manager that would have happened, we wouldn't have had the start we did, we'd have crumbled more often after going 1-0 down, we wouldn't be in the play-off spots.
all pretty academic anyway as i suspect he may be here for a while regardless, and he is certainly here until the end of the season so we just need to get behind him and the squad and hope he continues to learn and develop as you suggest.
He has made mistakes, I agree, and no he's not the greatest tactician or motivator around, but I do feel he learns from his mistakes. Recently he's tweaked the team too much, trying different things out that are never going to work in the long term (eg Shelvey floating between the left and the middle). With the squad as it is now we at least have some decent options in all positions, it's stronger than it was at the start of the season and luckily we've not lost any important players.
I think Parky should be judged just as any other manager would have been, based on this season. He was given a fresh start by the board, clear out the squad, bring in new staff as well as players, a chance to have a pre-season to work with the squad as manager. I do understand why he's judged on last season as well, but that's over and done with now, it's really a new squad, very different to the one we had at the start of last season. He's a manager that needs time to slowly improve his squad and develop the team, and he's done that well but not perfectly so far.
Like you say the best thing to do is get behind him and the squad. Going to be an interesting last few months to the season and it's a great chance for Parky to prove himself. Lets hope he does.
The following figures relate to the 30 clubs relegated to Tier 3 football in the ten seasons up to and including 2007-8:
- The average league position of clubs in their first season following relegation to Tier 3 is 12th.
- Only five clubs (17%) got promoted in their first season in Tier 3.
- Four clubs (13%) were relegated after just one season in Tier 3.
- Thirteen clubs (43%) subsequently suffered a further relegation from Tier 3 before gaining any promotions.
- One club is no longer a member of the football league.
Now perhaps some of you are thinking that this doesn't apply because we are a big club because we've been in the Premiership. Well, that doesn't seem to help. Of the nine former Premiership/Premier League clubs to have been relegated in that time only one (11%) bounced back at the first attempt! Indeed three of these even suffered further relegation.
So, it's not as easy as it looks. To expect that we can walk it is unrealistic. At the moment we are doing well and we have a good manager to thank for that.
So, the answer is probably yes
The broader point is that he is a very, very decent human being - unlike other occupants of the manager's chair in SE7 - and he brings to the table many of the things that were at the very core of our glory years, hard work, determination, persistence, honesty and humility.
Of course he doesn't always get it right and makes the odd ricket - who doesn't - but the bloke inherited a complete train wreck and has us now firmly pointing back in the right direction on the playing side regardless of where we end up this season.
Sacking Parkinson would be just about the dumbest move imagineable.
Leicester ?
Where as if we kept parky his knowledege and experience of the team will only get better as will his passion for his job and our club as it did for curbs and we will go up even if it's not this year.
Ha ha.
Leicester: Relegated 2008. Promoted as champions 2009.
Leeds: Relegated 2007. Still trying.
Nottingham Forest: Relegated 2005. Promoted 2008.
Bradford: Relegated 2004. Relegated again 2007. Still in 4th Tier.
Wimbledon: Relegated 2004. Relegated again as MK Dons 2006. Promoted back to Tier 3 2008.
Sheffield Wednesday: Relegated 2003. Promoted 2005.
Barnsley: Relegated 2002. Promoted 2006.
QPR: Relegated 2001. Promoted 2004.
Swindon: Relegated 2000. Relegated again 2006. Promoted back to Tier 3 2007.