It suffers from the same malaise that la Liga does. A couple (or in this case three) of clubs with untold resources who make the competition for the actual league laughable, with a couple more teams treading water just below them (Valencia, Sevilla in spain) and one or two 'mini leagues' covering the rest. Its always been the same - its just that now the disparity is even greater. No way out of it other than a euro league
I think these arguments could be transplanted into any time era of the Premier League since it's inception in 1992. The rich getting richer poor getting poorer etc. I think the relegated teams and those just above have been pretty poor this season but the Swindon team of 93/4 was awful as were the Sunderland and Derby teams that went down with 15 and 11 points respectively.At the top end it has been a bit more competitive what with Spurs, Man City, Villa and Everton battling for the place that Liverpool seem to think is theirs by right. I would still rather Charlton were in the big tent pissing out than outside the tent trying to piss in. Whilst this season has been very entertaining after all the heartache of recent seasons it's fair to say that outside the top 8 that League 1 is astonishingly awful. It just makes getting to the Championship all the more appealing.
[cite]Posted By: 3blokes[/cite]It depends what you want. The big problem for me about the premiership is all the celeb cult round it, where players managers punters give tedious stock answers and the latest wag/ affair/ roasting/punch up becomes huge tabloid focus.
The one good thing about the lower divisions is it is just about the football which personally I prefer.
The football itself in the prem is of course better quality than we see down at the valley currently, but whether it is a better matchday experience is open to debate I guess you pays your money you makes your choice on that one.
Agree 100%.
I was back for the Gillingham game at The Valley and (despite the result) absolutely bloody loved it because it was "proper" football with no poseurs on show and a cracking atmospher with near on 20,000 for an old Division Three game!
Sorry, I know others disagree, but I have no interest in Charlton being back in The Premiership and being cannon fodder, I love being in the CCC and even League One where the whole experience is much more authentic and far less about pleasing the prawn sandwich/football tourist market.
I found the whole last couple of years in the Premiership to be thoroughly depressing if I am honest, watching us get battered home and away by the big boys (with the odd exception, usually Liverpool) just was not much fun any more.
I haven't watched Match of the Day or any Prem game live since Charlton were in the Prem.
It has nothing to do with Charlton - and if I can't watch Charlton, I'd much rather go out and do other things than watch the Prem media circus go through the motions.
Now if one day Charlton get back to the Prem, sure - I'd be right there again. And let's face it, if we do get back then for the 1st year or 2, we're likely to be of the same playing standard as Wolves, Hull or Burnley.
Will we be moaning about the quality of the Prem then .....?
With the new proposal of 4 year parachute payments somewhere in the region of £90m (according to Ridsdale on 5Live) it is going to become more and more of a closed shop with just the same group teams going up and down every few years.
Whilst next year Man City will make probably make the title race more exciting, the sad truth is that I could have predicted the top 8 in the Prem at the beginning of the season...not one surprise package up there...when we were in the Prem there was one surprise team (Ipswich, Reading, Fulham etc) that used to get a top 7 finish...now all the way down to 8th (prob 9th if Birmingham spend over the summer) is almost impossible to break into so smaller clubs are even less likely to have that one great season and win a European slot....snooze of a league.
[cite]Posted By: colthe3rd[/cite]Chirpy can you honestly see Hull and Pompey going straight back up with the way their finances are?
Well no but this isn't in place yet, I mean in the future. It's the way the Prem is going and it's what they want. They don't want any more Hulls, Burnleys etc. They would like Leeds, Leciester, Forest, Sheff Wed, Boro, Newc etc to join. Have a squad of 25/26 teams and let the rest rot.
as stated above WIgan, West Ham and Bolton would all have gone down most seasons
the fact there were three worse sides than all of them says it all!!
Hull and Pompey are more likely to get relegated to League One next season than bounce back to the Prem. which means there is a big opportunity for any sides in the Championship next season...
Uncle - the premiership isn't exactly teeming with brilliant match ups and apart from some of the big games, the rest of the stuff that Sky & ESPN serve up is no more exciting, in fact it's usually worse, than watching the live football league games.
A lot of people only find the premiership exciting because they're the "big" teams and they watch "big" players. Have started to take a few mates from work to a few games (Chelsea & Arsenal fans), and both have enjoyed the match and all that goes with it. So not so sure that you saying only people who follow a team at this level will enjoy this level is true.
Regardless of whether you think the Premiership is a good thing or a bad thing (and most of us think the second) there's no doubt at all for me, and the stats appear to back this up, that in comparison with previous years it's the worst season yet for quality. We all knew that it was going to be one of the big 4 winning basically but how many of us would have had a bet in August that you could stay up this year with only 30 points on the table. Not too many I'd think.
In the history of the Premier League, only 14 teams have finished on less than 30 points and -40 goal difference. ie. only 14 teams in the last 17 seasons would've been relegated in this season. Three of them were Burnley, Hull and Portsmouth. Says it all.
The teams at the bottom of the league may have been poorer than recent seasons, but next season I believe we'll see an improvement, simply because Newcastle, West Brom + 1 will be stronger than Hull, Burnley and Pompey.
I can't recall that many epic games - there were lots of huge victories, but besides the Man Utd 4 Man City 3 game I can't think of any classics (and classic is going too far there).
Favourite thing of the season for me was Darren Bent banging in 24 league goals. What an achievement.
Other highlights:
Figueroa's goal against Stoke
Liverpool not being very good
Iain Dowie's face
If there are going to be 26 (or maybe 30?) teams in the Premier League or challenging for the playoffs then its up to the board to get us back into the frame... interesting I heard Newcastle saying they are not going to break the bank over the summer...
It was Man U or Chelsea for the title - did I go out of my way to catch their recent match? No ... but the chase for 4th place was fascinating with Man City vs Spurs the other night.
As for the bottom 3 - let's just hope that when we get back there we always have a couple of clubs who simply can't do it... As uncle says, when you're in the league it suddenly becomes a lot more interesting!
Strange season in my opinion. Chelsea won every game against the (old) big 4 and scored 7 or more 4 times. On that basis you'd expect them to have won the league by about 15 points rather than just one. The top teams have lost more games than in the last few years and yet there is an even bigger gulf than ever between the bottom and the top with 7 teams under the magic 40 points. It has now become like all the other leagues in Europe where only 2 or 3 teams can ever win the league.
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]Uncle - the premiership isn't exactly teeming with brilliant match ups and apart from some of the big games, the rest of the stuff that Sky & ESPN serve up is no more exciting, in fact it's usually worse, than watching the live football league games.
A lot of people only find the premiership exciting because they're the "big" teams and they watch "big" players. Have started to take a few mates from work to a few games (Chelsea & Arsenal fans), and both have enjoyed the match and all that goes with it. So not so sure that you saying only people who follow a team at this level will enjoy this level is true.
Agree totally bout the football in this league being probably more entertaining but I do agree with Uncle; end of the day you'd rather be seeing your team against the Gerrards, Rooneys, Drogba etc. rather than people that 95% of the ground have never heard of before.
and the mates from work who support other teams....you had about 8,000 in your place when we played you right?
"end of the day you'd rather be seeing your team against the Gerrards, Rooneys, Drogba etc"
True...although only if you're actually competing/holding your own! I wouldn't fancy spending year in, year out, fighting against relegation, nor would I fancy watching us finish 8th to 15th each season. You need to at least have a few special moments a year, like for you when you beat Arsenal, or recently when Blackburn beat Arsenal etc. Otherwise it must get a little tedious and expensive!
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]"end of the day you'd rather be seeing your team against the Gerrards, Rooneys, Drogba etc"
True...although only if you're actually competing/holding your own! I wouldn't fancy spending year in, year out, fighting against relegation, nor would I fancy watching us finish 8th to 15th each season. You need to at least have a few special moments a year, like for you when you beat Arsenal, or recently when Blackburn beat Arsenal etc. Otherwise it must get a little tedious and expensive!
That's very true but I also would much prefer if we were going to be crap, at least see some of the world's best players at the same time. If there was a choice between losing to Orient at home when a 35 year old former Charlton trainee scores or losing to Arsenal at home when Van Persie scores arguably the goal of that season, I know which one I'd prefer.
We were crap the year we were relegated from the Premiership, in quite a few games under Dowie and Reed, even crapper than last season (and trust me we were crap then), and although depressing to see your team get played off the park by Gerrard et al, it was a whole lot easier if you could see a genius at work whilst doing it! Hansen said we gave the worst performance in Premier League history against Liverpool (which I would disagree with) but as a fan of football as well as Charlton I've been more pissed off losing to Northwich, Carlisle, Brizzle Rovers this season than I was then.....
To be honest it was only the last season in the Premier League that we were really not fit for purpose. I stand by the assertion that for 6 seasons we were a comfortable mid table side who occasionally flirted with the upper echelons and gave them a bloody nose from time to time. We were definately a bigger and more stable mid table side than some and I felt we gave as good as we got, it was as I said that last mess of a season that has caused everything else that has followed. I would dearly love us to return one day and hopefully be in reasonable shape to do what we did between 2000 and 2006.
That's very true but I also would much prefer if we were going to be crap, at least see some of the world's best players at the same time. If there was a choice between losing to Orient at home when a 35 year old former Charlton trainee scores or losing to Arsenal at home when Van Persie scores arguably the goal of that season, I know which one I'd prefer.
We were crap the year we were relegated from the Premiership, in quite a few games under Dowie and Reed, even crapper than last season (and trust me we were crap then), and although depressing to see your team get played off the park by Gerrard et al, it was a whole lot easier if you could see a genius at work whilst doing it! Hansen said we gave the worst performance in Premier League history against Liverpool (which I would disagree with) but as a fan of football as well as Charlton I've been more pissed off losing to Northwich, Carlisle, Brizzle Rovers this season than I was then.....
Has it really got worse? In 03/04 we finished 7th, if we had that team in the Prem this season, I doubt we'd have finished that high, maybe not even in the top half.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]i think top end premiership has improved considerably ... next year there will be 6/7 fighting for 4 spots.... middle is much of a muchness but the bottom has deffo got worse and there is some proper dross ....
I think that's it really, top 8 clubs are probably stronger overall, how many seasons has there been an 11 point gap between 8th and 9th? http://www.oleole.com/tables/4/20/rank/a
As a comparison to when we finished 7th, we did that with just 53 points. Liverpool finished 4th with 60 points (hard to believe now we were so close to qualifying for the Champions League).
With the top clubs doing better, I guess that means the bottom clubs do worse. Is the extra TV money that has done that? I've thought for a few years now if we're ever going to get back to mid table Prem football, we'll need big investment as well as the TV money to do it consistently for several seasons in a row. We had six seasons of not worrying about relegation at all. Hard to see a club going up to the Prem, that hasn't been there for more than the odd season, and be able to do that without serious money to spend.
Sparrows i'm talking about the quality of football. I find a team that passes the ball around fast and on the floor much more entertaining than centerhalves lumping the ball up to the forwards. Your friends are either easily pleased or they saw you on a good day because lets face it millwall are hardly known for their flowing entertaining football. So i suppose its a matter of choice and i would certainly choose a prem game to millwall v yeovil on a tuesday night when your long ball skills fail to break them down and you draw 0-0. What exciting times you have there
The game against Orient we actually played a lot of very good, quick passing football. They were impressed.
Other games haven't been as good to watch.
But then I wasn't talking just about Millwall was I fella. I was talking in general. I have watched some awful Premier league games. I have seen some very good & exciting football league games.
You implied that the football at this level is only enjoyed by people who follow a team at this level. I disagreed and said I have some mates that have enjoyed a few games and I've watched plenty of football league on the box which have been good games and I have enjoyed, despite not following either team.
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]Uncle - no need to be so arsey eh.
The game against Orient we actually played a lot of very good, quick passing football. They were impressed.
Other games haven't been as good to watch.
But then I wasn't talking just about Millwall was I fella. I was talking in general. I have watched some awful Premier league games. I have seen some very good & exciting football league games.
You implied that the football at this level is only enjoyed by people who follow a team at this level. I disagreed and said I have some mates that have enjoyed a few games and I've watched plenty of football league on the box which have been good games and I have enjoyed, despite not following either team.
Actually I, if you read properly was implying that people who's team is in league one would have less interest in the prem than if their own team was in it. I've watched some awful league one games and seen some very exciting prem games so what is your point there. Maybe you should have read what I said before getting arsey. Anyway so glad you had one good game against orient but i still aint having it that it was very good quick passing football.
going back to the original thread, the premiership standard is reducing, when Liverpool buy the likes of Shelvey, how the hell do we expect it to improve!!
You didn't imply that at all. You clearly said this league isn't exciting at all.
I was merely putting across a different view that people that don't follow a team in this league have found some games exciting. & that I've found other football league games exciting, not just the mighty premier league.
If you haven't seen any exciting football league games all season then fair enough, that's your view, other people have a different view. Nice bit of arseyness towards the end too hahaha calm down mate!
I have been no more, or no less entertained by the Premiership this season than in any other season. Football is only a form of entertainment at the end of the day (Brian), people seem to forget that. I can enjoy a bottom of the table club squeezing out a jammy 1-0 against one of the Sky 4, I can enjoy a 5 goal thriller, and I can enjoy a 7-0 footballing masterclass from the champions elect.
I can also enjoy the same at championship, league 1 and league 2 level - if the game is good and keeps you glued to it, who cares if there are mistakes, or if the centre half can deliver a 50 yard pass on a sixpence every time?
Comments
Agree 100%.
I was back for the Gillingham game at The Valley and (despite the result) absolutely bloody loved it because it was "proper" football with no poseurs on show and a cracking atmospher with near on 20,000 for an old Division Three game!
Sorry, I know others disagree, but I have no interest in Charlton being back in The Premiership and being cannon fodder, I love being in the CCC and even League One where the whole experience is much more authentic and far less about pleasing the prawn sandwich/football tourist market.
I found the whole last couple of years in the Premiership to be thoroughly depressing if I am honest, watching us get battered home and away by the big boys (with the odd exception, usually Liverpool) just was not much fun any more.
It has nothing to do with Charlton - and if I can't watch Charlton, I'd much rather go out and do other things than watch the Prem media circus go through the motions.
Now if one day Charlton get back to the Prem, sure - I'd be right there again. And let's face it, if we do get back then for the 1st year or 2, we're likely to be of the same playing standard as Wolves, Hull or Burnley.
Will we be moaning about the quality of the Prem then .....?
Well no but this isn't in place yet, I mean in the future. It's the way the Prem is going and it's what they want. They don't want any more Hulls, Burnleys etc. They would like Leeds, Leciester, Forest, Sheff Wed, Boro, Newc etc to join. Have a squad of 25/26 teams and let the rest rot.
as stated above WIgan, West Ham and Bolton would all have gone down most seasons
the fact there were three worse sides than all of them says it all!!
Hull and Pompey are more likely to get relegated to League One next season than bounce back to the Prem. which means there is a big opportunity for any sides in the Championship next season...
A lot of people only find the premiership exciting because they're the "big" teams and they watch "big" players. Have started to take a few mates from work to a few games (Chelsea & Arsenal fans), and both have enjoyed the match and all that goes with it. So not so sure that you saying only people who follow a team at this level will enjoy this level is true.
I can't recall that many epic games - there were lots of huge victories, but besides the Man Utd 4 Man City 3 game I can't think of any classics (and classic is going too far there).
Favourite thing of the season for me was Darren Bent banging in 24 league goals. What an achievement.
Other highlights:
Figueroa's goal against Stoke
Liverpool not being very good
Iain Dowie's face
It was Man U or Chelsea for the title - did I go out of my way to catch their recent match? No ... but the chase for 4th place was fascinating with Man City vs Spurs the other night.
As for the bottom 3 - let's just hope that when we get back there we always have a couple of clubs who simply can't do it... As uncle says, when you're in the league it suddenly becomes a lot more interesting!
Agree totally bout the football in this league being probably more entertaining but I do agree with Uncle; end of the day you'd rather be seeing your team against the Gerrards, Rooneys, Drogba etc. rather than people that 95% of the ground have never heard of before.
and the mates from work who support other teams....you had about 8,000 in your place when we played you right?
True...although only if you're actually competing/holding your own! I wouldn't fancy spending year in, year out, fighting against relegation, nor would I fancy watching us finish 8th to 15th each season. You need to at least have a few special moments a year, like for you when you beat Arsenal, or recently when Blackburn beat Arsenal etc. Otherwise it must get a little tedious and expensive!
That's very true but I also would much prefer if we were going to be crap, at least see some of the world's best players at the same time. If there was a choice between losing to Orient at home when a 35 year old former Charlton trainee scores or losing to Arsenal at home when Van Persie scores arguably the goal of that season, I know which one I'd prefer.
We were crap the year we were relegated from the Premiership, in quite a few games under Dowie and Reed, even crapper than last season (and trust me we were crap then), and although depressing to see your team get played off the park by Gerrard et al, it was a whole lot easier if you could see a genius at work whilst doing it! Hansen said we gave the worst performance in Premier League history against Liverpool (which I would disagree with) but as a fan of football as well as Charlton I've been more pissed off losing to Northwich, Carlisle, Brizzle Rovers this season than I was then.....
I think that's it really, top 8 clubs are probably stronger overall, how many seasons has there been an 11 point gap between 8th and 9th?
http://www.oleole.com/tables/4/20/rank/a
As a comparison to when we finished 7th, we did that with just 53 points. Liverpool finished 4th with 60 points (hard to believe now we were so close to qualifying for the Champions League).
With the top clubs doing better, I guess that means the bottom clubs do worse. Is the extra TV money that has done that? I've thought for a few years now if we're ever going to get back to mid table Prem football, we'll need big investment as well as the TV money to do it consistently for several seasons in a row. We had six seasons of not worrying about relegation at all. Hard to see a club going up to the Prem, that hasn't been there for more than the odd season, and be able to do that without serious money to spend.
The game against Orient we actually played a lot of very good, quick passing football. They were impressed.
Other games haven't been as good to watch.
But then I wasn't talking just about Millwall was I fella. I was talking in general. I have watched some awful Premier league games. I have seen some very good & exciting football league games.
You implied that the football at this level is only enjoyed by people who follow a team at this level. I disagreed and said I have some mates that have enjoyed a few games and I've watched plenty of football league on the box which have been good games and I have enjoyed, despite not following either team.
Wigan v Stoke on a Monday in the Premier League
Yeovil v West Ham on a Tuesday in League 1
;-)
Actually I, if you read properly was implying that people who's team is in league one would have less interest in the prem than if their own team was in it. I've watched some awful league one games and seen some very exciting prem games so what is your point there. Maybe you should have read what I said before getting arsey. Anyway so glad you had one good game against orient but i still aint having it that it was very good quick passing football.
I was merely putting across a different view that people that don't follow a team in this league have found some games exciting. & that I've found other football league games exciting, not just the mighty premier league.
If you haven't seen any exciting football league games all season then fair enough, that's your view, other people have a different view. Nice bit of arseyness towards the end too hahaha calm down mate!
I can also enjoy the same at championship, league 1 and league 2 level - if the game is good and keeps you glued to it, who cares if there are mistakes, or if the centre half can deliver a 50 yard pass on a sixpence every time?