They showed a clip of Randy Newman doing his "short people" song last week on BBC4. Make sure you are sitting down and not holding any sharp objects when you read the lyrics.
[cite]Posted By: Stone[/cite]No one used to get dropped off at school. Mum was at home making a proper meal for dinner that night. You done cross country twice a week and 'Double Games' was a treat. Everyone went swimming (2d for the bus fare!). You were hardly seen in the house at weekends apart from meals and to sleep.
I know things have changed in that time and the way we live governs much of this but it will take a lot to reverse it IMO.
At that age, computers were starting to become mainstream with games consoles etc. but in truth, no one was really that bothered about it. We would much rather ride our bikes, skateboards, play football, runouts, curby etc. than play a computer on our own.
I think technology has everything to answer for because it has made a whole generation a lot more insular and less socially active. In our day, to speak to someone or arrange something you had to phone them up and speak to a parent first, or go and knock on their door. There was no text, no email etc. Technology has made kids lazy.
I don't think it is just the technology. That is just a machine which we don't have to buy or can control the use of. maybe it is the parents who have become too lazy or too scared.
I think that parents, myself included, allow kids to do less than we were allowed to. Of course we didn't spend all day being active as we watched TV, read books (well I did) or played board games etc but I was certainly allowed to ride my bike, minus helmet, pretty much where I liked and cross a main road to the playing field to kick a ball around and show off my ball skills to passengers on the 177 bus.
Now I don't let me son go to the local rec or play outside more than 100 yards away. I think there is a danger that we remember our own childhood as idyllic (I'm sure Len enjoyed playing in the bomb sites) but it was often dangerous and risky. Maybe our parents neglected us!
most girls in Dartford already have 3 kids by this age[/quote]
This is similar in Woolwich. Recently my friends and i visited a lap dancing club opposite woolwich ferry, and how off putting to watch a heroin infested teenager getting her kit off whilst trying to rock baby Porsche to sleep in her pram.
(thought I'll get it in) but, as Henry said the fear of most parents is there is a peadophile on every street corner, when in fact the levels of arrests and detection of peadophila is about the same as it was 20 years ago. So instead of constantly being in fear of the kids being nicked off the street, people keep there kids in, to sit on the internet and talk to people on the internet, see the fuzzy logic?
There is definately a big element of this Rothko- as a kid, most of my regular exercise was gained by getting to school- whether it was walking, cycling, even just having to take two diferent buses and then stoping off at the park on my way home- now- it would seem most kids just get driven to school.
But, and although it's a bit of a tangent, it's IMHO it's very relevant, the trouble today is that children are far more pampered- often as a result of parents, and dare i say it especially mothers, who will have a guilt trip about having a life- whether it's work or other activities, which detract them from their children. Therefore, when they do have their children will pamper them with their every desire, including food because it is easier just to give in rather than stand firm on what they know to be right.
(thought I'll get it in) but, as Henry said the fear of most parents is there is a peadophile on every street corner, when in fact the levels of arrests and detection of peadophila is about the same as it was 20 years ago. So instead of constantly being in fear of the kids being nicked off the street, people keep there kids in, to sit on the internet and talk to people on the internet, see the fuzzy logic?
Parents have always been aware of the dangers of paedophilia. "Don't talk to strangers", "don't get in a car with someone you don't know" were maxims I was brought up with on the bomb sites! Thanks Henry!
In my opinion, whilst fear of paedophiles is there in the background, the main reasons parents are more protective today are firstly the growing drug culture and secondly the growing mugging culture.
If caring parents, through no fault of their own, are unable to afford the subscriptions for supervised activities for their kids they are often going to take the safety first option and keep the kids in.
Like I say it is not JUST down to eating the "wrong" food.
Maybe, but if your constantly told that there is a peadophile on every corner as the NoTW does every weekend, then you're going to start to believe it.
Drugs is an issue, but then it's been an issue for 20 years, educate your kids, but don't pander to the media scares, as for mugging, well, if parents didn't buy there kids the latest mobile phone...
Agree with you Len though I'm as much concerned about traffic on the road. When he's a teenager I'll be worried about something else like drugs, drinks, loose women (but he may have a different view on all of those!).
Even the mugging thing isn't new. Certainly when I were a lad you were likely to get a kicking for being in the wrong place, wearing the wrong clothes, having the wrong hair, being the wrong colour or supporting the wrong team but you didn't always get robbed as well.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]If they were lesbian or gay then that would be a different matter.
Why?
because I know it to be the case. Afraid to offend gays/lesbians they get more leeway.
BTW, I have no problem with gays/lesbians adopting. Anyone who is prepared to adopt children and bring them up as their own is more than ok with me whether gay/lesbian/straight. Adoption should be positively encouraged.
Large, obviously did not read your post well enough, I wasn't trying to suggest that you had any problem with that ilk it just seemed a bald statement which could be read either way.
I happen to agree with you, they are cut more slack than some of the straight persuasion and I also agree that adoption should be more widely available. As an adoptee myself,though under very unusual circumstances, I applaud your stance.
What I would say however is that there has to be great care in choosing prospective adoptive parents.
I accept what you say BUT should a no hope, no brain from a council estate who has no intention of ever doing a days work be allowed to bring up a child, whatever the childs circumstances? Just because he, she or they want a "Brown one", to fit in with the other girls on the estate, does not a good parent make.
In my current profession I do meet more lesbians and gay men than straights and I have to say that either by cause or effect I have yet to meet one of either persuasion who is not hardworking, honest and well mannered. In general they take care of themselves and their dependants and will not tolerate intolerance, if you see what I mean. Having said that however there are obviously many many people outside that demographic who are equally moral, law abiding and who would make great parents if only they were given the chance. Unfortunately, under the current system they are not always given the chance and greater emphasis is placed on people who have the right PC credentials i.e anyone who is not a WASP.
In fact if you were to take a goodly number of the kids born to single mums in most areas of the country for forced adoption and gave them to people who wanted kids but couldn't have them but were able to hold down a job, mortgage etc etc, whatever their religious, sexual or ethnic background, this country would be in a far better state than it is.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]Maybe, but if your constantly told that there is a peadophile on every corner as the NoTW does every weekend, then you're going to start to believe it.
Drugs is an issue, but then it's been an issue for 20 years, educate your kids, but don't pander to the media scares, as for mugging, well, if parents didn't buy there kids the latest mobile phone...
The issue is more why don't the police do more to get drugs and mugging off of the streets?
Why should decent hard working people pander to lawless scumbags by not buying their loved ones nice things?
Unfortunately thereare many children up for adoption who are not wanted as they have physical or emotional issues that makes them less attractive. I do think that the process of being vetted and approved to be adoptive parents should be speeded up and opened to as many as possible.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]Maybe, but if your constantly told that there is a peadophile on every corner as the NoTW does every weekend, then you're going to start to believe it.
Drugs is an issue, but then it's been an issue for 20 years, educate your kids, but don't pander to the media scares, as for mugging, well, if parents didn't buy there kids the latest mobile phone...
The issue is more why don't the police do more to get drugs and mugging off of the streets?
Why should decent hard working people pander to lawless scumbags by not buying their loved ones nice things?
Agree Len. So if I see you Rothko with a decent mobile I'm allowed to mug you cos you got a better phone than me.
And if the kids don't have a decent phone they'll get picked on at school for being poor, get depressed, start staying in and overeating and get fat which is where we came in.
Can't win can you, was the point I was trying to make.
I tend to an old fashion Social Democrat on this (none of that socialist bollocks thank you) and believe that rather then throwing more money out in benefits, you spend the money on improving peoples educational achievement and life chances, and hopefully that'll change the situation.
No chance of catching you up that hill opposite where you live. Could hardly get a car up it let alone run.
Thing is we have better education and standards of living than ever before. We have better housing and a broader health provision. Things aren't going to the dogs it just that we've always had problems with health, crime and the feckless poor and I guess we always will.
The obesity levels are rising at the moment because it is easier to be overweight.
1. It's easier to by less healthy processed foods and stick them in a microwave
2. It's easier to sit indoors and watch telly than go out for a walk
3. It's easier to let your kid sit indoors and watch telly than go out and play because the accepted way of doing things is that you go with them to the park (assuming the council haven't closed it down).
However it is also harder to be healthy.
1. It's harder to fit PE into the school curriculum because there are so many more areas that are competing for space in the school timetable.
2. It's harder for schools to run teams because of a litigous society, apathetic parents and teachers who are not willing to add to an already heavy workload
3. It's harder to find somewhere to play because of the pressure to build houses on any urban green space.
great debate people.
i think that like most things in our country we are about 10-15 years behind the states.
the most contributing factor (imo) is that most of the combined factors happened at a similar time.
numerous fast food outlets opened (macdonalds 1974), television was 3 channels in1984, the 'right to buy' council houses created the scope for the selling of playing feilds, the teachers strike in the 80's meant that teachers withdrew after school and weekend activities, competitive sports were a no no and it was the taking part in sports day that counted, microwaves became an essential, the internet evolved, atari's were invented,etc etc.
the thing is that most of those that were kids then, are now parents that haven't really grown up.
there are more fast food outlets, there are an almost infinite number of tv channells, those that bought council houses are probably living in a 'new build' on an ex sports feild, most schools do not have sports teams anymore, everyone still has a microwave, people like ourselves use forums, and the one thing that sums up the point i am trying to make is that 30-50 year old men/women were queueing/fighting this christmas for a wii.
oh and i didn't mention the walking to school/getting dropped off thing.
Took my son to Charlton Park last weekend (always try to go to a park at the weekends), he is 5 turns to me and says 'Dad this park is a dump it is covered in grafitti!'. All I could do is agree with him. The Borough of Greenwich has fantastic open spaces it is just that all of those maintained by the council are almost derelict; and often full of gangs of older kids.
He walks to school/goes to football coaching and tae kwondo; the footie is free thanks to CAFC until he is 6.
I am from a generation where computers and consoles frst became common but I spent my summers out on my bike and playing sport (I am not exactly light weight now!).
I wish he did not want to play cricket in mid winter though.....
We now live in an ever changing and demanding society, more emphasis on working and allowing kids/children to have the latest gadets to keep them happy,Parents are too tired as they both work and can't find the time to stimulate the kids in a more imaginative way other than let them watch tv or go to the bedroom,Sitting around and doing nothing it's an easy escape.I am from a genearation that didn't have any of these things and we were always finding stuff to do. not all kids are fat but they are probably not getting enough exercise and are probably not eating the right foods, plenty of kids now are hyped/stressesd out and on retalin and argumentative,also lacking in a concentration span.Thank god school meals are better than what they used to be.
[cite]Posted By: paulbaconsarnie[/cite]great debate people.
ithe thing is that most of those that were kids then, are now parents that haven't really grown up.
Exactly, give it another 10/15 years and it will be happening again,what can you do,i see plenty of teenagers walking prams or dragging kids behind them,shouting and swearing,beggars belief.They are not mature enough to be bringing up children. What ever happened to underage sex! How comes we read about 11 year olds having babies while still at school and MUM and DAD thinks it's alright, My Daughter loves the baby.REALLY!
I'm nearly 40, at that age my, dad (born 1935) had spent his first 20 years in rationing, seen bombing and death live. He lived in SE10 throughout the war. We are going to be different parents now aren't we...He saw Charlton win a trophy or 2..
Mine are 2 and 5 my biggest concerns are, how bored they get in school as it is pitched so low it is untrue; it is my biggest worry.
The Primary Schools in Greenwich are good (in the present scoring systems), but the secondary schools in Greenwich might as well not exist.
Roan was a good school I was there 1980-85 and it went to crap in my time.
My wife is a teacher at a secondary school in Kent she says we need to leave before these kids are meant to be providing for us.
I must admit, I am now 36 but still do not feel responsible enough to bring a child into this world. The Yoof of today eh do not think of the consequences, theones that do are only thinking of the free council house that comes with every baby..!
Comments
LOL
I have strong views on this subject....
At that age, computers were starting to become mainstream with games consoles etc. but in truth, no one was really that bothered about it. We would much rather ride our bikes, skateboards, play football, runouts, curby etc. than play a computer on our own.
I think technology has everything to answer for because it has made a whole generation a lot more insular and less socially active. In our day, to speak to someone or arrange something you had to phone them up and speak to a parent first, or go and knock on their door. There was no text, no email etc. Technology has made kids lazy.
I think that parents, myself included, allow kids to do less than we were allowed to. Of course we didn't spend all day being active as we watched TV, read books (well I did) or played board games etc but I was certainly allowed to ride my bike, minus helmet, pretty much where I liked and cross a main road to the playing field to kick a ball around and show off my ball skills to passengers on the 177 bus.
Now I don't let me son go to the local rec or play outside more than 100 yards away. I think there is a danger that we remember our own childhood as idyllic (I'm sure Len enjoyed playing in the bomb sites) but it was often dangerous and risky. Maybe our parents neglected us!
The other are probably just big-boned I guess.
* The total number of obese children has doubled since 1982. If present trends continued half of all children in England in 2020 would be obese.
PS There is a school of thought, presently unfashionable admittedly, that vertical attainment can be changed.
This is similar in Woolwich. Recently my friends and i visited a lap dancing club opposite woolwich ferry, and how off putting to watch a heroin infested teenager getting her kit off whilst trying to rock baby Porsche to sleep in her pram.
(thought I'll get it in) but, as Henry said the fear of most parents is there is a peadophile on every street corner, when in fact the levels of arrests and detection of peadophila is about the same as it was 20 years ago. So instead of constantly being in fear of the kids being nicked off the street, people keep there kids in, to sit on the internet and talk to people on the internet, see the fuzzy logic?
But, and although it's a bit of a tangent, it's IMHO it's very relevant, the trouble today is that children are far more pampered- often as a result of parents, and dare i say it especially mothers, who will have a guilt trip about having a life- whether it's work or other activities, which detract them from their children. Therefore, when they do have their children will pamper them with their every desire, including food because it is easier just to give in rather than stand firm on what they know to be right.
Parents have always been aware of the dangers of paedophilia. "Don't talk to strangers", "don't get in a car with someone you don't know" were maxims I was brought up with on the bomb sites! Thanks Henry!
In my opinion, whilst fear of paedophiles is there in the background, the main reasons parents are more protective today are firstly the growing drug culture and secondly the growing mugging culture.
If caring parents, through no fault of their own, are unable to afford the subscriptions for supervised activities for their kids they are often going to take the safety first option and keep the kids in.
Like I say it is not JUST down to eating the "wrong" food.
Drugs is an issue, but then it's been an issue for 20 years, educate your kids, but don't pander to the media scares, as for mugging, well, if parents didn't buy there kids the latest mobile phone...
Even the mugging thing isn't new. Certainly when I were a lad you were likely to get a kicking for being in the wrong place, wearing the wrong clothes, having the wrong hair, being the wrong colour or supporting the wrong team but you didn't always get robbed as well.
Large, obviously did not read your post well enough, I wasn't trying to suggest that you had any problem with that ilk it just seemed a bald statement which could be read either way.
I happen to agree with you, they are cut more slack than some of the straight persuasion and I also agree that adoption should be more widely available. As an adoptee myself,though under very unusual circumstances, I applaud your stance.
What I would say however is that there has to be great care in choosing prospective adoptive parents.
I accept what you say BUT should a no hope, no brain from a council estate who has no intention of ever doing a days work be allowed to bring up a child, whatever the childs circumstances? Just because he, she or they want a "Brown one", to fit in with the other girls on the estate, does not a good parent make.
In my current profession I do meet more lesbians and gay men than straights and I have to say that either by cause or effect I have yet to meet one of either persuasion who is not hardworking, honest and well mannered. In general they take care of themselves and their dependants and will not tolerate intolerance, if you see what I mean. Having said that however there are obviously many many people outside that demographic who are equally moral, law abiding and who would make great parents if only they were given the chance. Unfortunately, under the current system they are not always given the chance and greater emphasis is placed on people who have the right PC credentials i.e anyone who is not a WASP.
In fact if you were to take a goodly number of the kids born to single mums in most areas of the country for forced adoption and gave them to people who wanted kids but couldn't have them but were able to hold down a job, mortgage etc etc, whatever their religious, sexual or ethnic background, this country would be in a far better state than it is.
The issue is more why don't the police do more to get drugs and mugging off of the streets?
Why should decent hard working people pander to lawless scumbags by not buying their loved ones nice things?
Agree Len. So if I see you Rothko with a decent mobile I'm allowed to mug you cos you got a better phone than me.
And if the kids don't have a decent phone they'll get picked on at school for being poor, get depressed, start staying in and overeating and get fat which is where we came in.
I tend to an old fashion Social Democrat on this (none of that socialist bollocks thank you) and believe that rather then throwing more money out in benefits, you spend the money on improving peoples educational achievement and life chances, and hopefully that'll change the situation.
As for the mobile Henry, you'll have to catch me
Thing is we have better education and standards of living than ever before. We have better housing and a broader health provision. Things aren't going to the dogs it just that we've always had problems with health, crime and the feckless poor and I guess we always will.
1. It's easier to by less healthy processed foods and stick them in a microwave
2. It's easier to sit indoors and watch telly than go out for a walk
3. It's easier to let your kid sit indoors and watch telly than go out and play because the accepted way of doing things is that you go with them to the park (assuming the council haven't closed it down).
However it is also harder to be healthy.
1. It's harder to fit PE into the school curriculum because there are so many more areas that are competing for space in the school timetable.
2. It's harder for schools to run teams because of a litigous society, apathetic parents and teachers who are not willing to add to an already heavy workload
3. It's harder to find somewhere to play because of the pressure to build houses on any urban green space.
Applying that logic then if you don't have a seat you shouldn't have to pay at all?:-)
i think that like most things in our country we are about 10-15 years behind the states.
the most contributing factor (imo) is that most of the combined factors happened at a similar time.
numerous fast food outlets opened (macdonalds 1974), television was 3 channels in1984, the 'right to buy' council houses created the scope for the selling of playing feilds, the teachers strike in the 80's meant that teachers withdrew after school and weekend activities, competitive sports were a no no and it was the taking part in sports day that counted, microwaves became an essential, the internet evolved, atari's were invented,etc etc.
the thing is that most of those that were kids then, are now parents that haven't really grown up.
there are more fast food outlets, there are an almost infinite number of tv channells, those that bought council houses are probably living in a 'new build' on an ex sports feild, most schools do not have sports teams anymore, everyone still has a microwave, people like ourselves use forums, and the one thing that sums up the point i am trying to make is that 30-50 year old men/women were queueing/fighting this christmas for a wii.
oh and i didn't mention the walking to school/getting dropped off thing.
He walks to school/goes to football coaching and tae kwondo; the footie is free thanks to CAFC until he is 6.
I am from a generation where computers and consoles frst became common but I spent my summers out on my bike and playing sport (I am not exactly light weight now!).
I wish he did not want to play cricket in mid winter though.....
you are so, so right !!
Mine are 2 and 5 my biggest concerns are, how bored they get in school as it is pitched so low it is untrue; it is my biggest worry.
The Primary Schools in Greenwich are good (in the present scoring systems), but the secondary schools in Greenwich might as well not exist.
Roan was a good school I was there 1980-85 and it went to crap in my time.
My wife is a teacher at a secondary school in Kent she says we need to leave before these kids are meant to be providing for us.