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New Signings

edited July 2010 in General Charlton
I don't mean to sound negative although I think it probably will, I'm not bouncing off the walls about them. I did make a point the other day about only having Solly at right back so bringing in Francis solves that and I am pleased that problem has been covered. However, the signing of Abbott is one that I simply cannot understand. I know we only have Sodje currently, but what we really need is someone that is going to bang in 20+ goals before the start of the season and he isn't the answer im afraid. Parky was given money to spend, and it seems to me that he's rushed this decision, had a rush of blood to the head and splashed it on someone that can't really make it into the Oldham side. I'll put my hands up and say, no I can't think or find another alternative, but that's why I'm a fan and not the manager of the addicks who is supposed to be trusted to make the right decisions. I really do hope this works out and comes back to bite me on the bum but I honestly can't see it at the moment. We desperately need a 20 goal+ striker, and I hope Parky finds him otherwise it's going to be a long long season for us.
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Comments

  • A bit harsh I think - I can't really comment on the player as I've not really seen enough of him (although I was at the two Oldham gfames last season I can't say he caught my eye) - but comments from Oldham fans on here last night seem to think we have a bargain and he is a good player.........maybe not the 20+ player we really need, but I doint think he is out there !!!
  • [cite]Posted By: Sir Chrissy[/cite]Parky was given money to spend, and it seems to me that he's rushed this decision, had a rush of blood to the head and splashed it on someone that can't really make it into the Oldham side.

    38 league games, 2 cup games 13 goals last season. Not bad stats.
  • [cite]Posted By: Sir Chrissy[/cite]Parky was given money to spend, and it seems to me that he's rushed this decision, had a rush of blood to the head and splashed it on someone that can't really make it into the Oldham side.

    Not quite understanding you there, Sir Chris.

    Pav played 38 League games for Oldham last year, scoring 13 goals (1 goal in 3 games average - which is very much up to standard for a striker, especially one playing a lone forward role).



    Parky said on the OS:
    1) He's been very impressed with Pav as an opponent back when he was Colchester manager (44 goals in 120 appearances for Huddersfield). He's also scored 30 goals during the past 2 seasons.

    2) He's been chasing Pav for some time.


    From the tone of Pav's own comments on the OS, IMO Pav and new Oldham manager Dickov didn't get on,
    (remember also Dickov spent time on loan as a player at Oldham last season). Something amiss there, I reckon.


    There's no reason why this coming season Pav couldn't score 15 goals in around 40 matches (close to 1 in 3), add in a few penalties and he could indeed be a 20 goal striker, like the 27 he scored in 1 season for Huddersfield a few seasons ago. Strikers are generally only as good as the service they receive, remember.

    He also brings height, physical strength and good hold up play to our front line.
    I reckon Parky will still sign another forward to play off him.
  • Parky tried to sign Abbot in January, I'm lead to believe so he's liked him for a while. We all know we need another striker and if Parky had said there wasn't another one coming I could understand the concern but as it stands the squad is still a few bodies off being complete. We all want a 20 goal striker but so does everyone else so we may just have to hope that the squad gel and a striker like Abbot has a special season.
  • Until the season starts and they get a few games under their belt we just got to trust Parky's choice of players...

    My main concern is, apart from Doherty, none of the players have come from sides that did very well last season...

    Long way to go yet before we start booing...
  • Totally agree with RedZed, Abbott clearly wasn't wanted by Oldham, a team most probably happy with mid table mediocrity, so why would a team (we hope) looking for a play off place want him? He won't compliment Sodje, they're both big players, I just can't understand it. As I said, I really do hope this comes back to bite me on me bum!
  • [cite]Posted By: Sir Chrissy[/cite]I know we only have Sodje currently, but what we really need is someone that is going to bang in 20+ goals before the start of the season and he isn't the answer im afraid.

    Far too early to say that. What sort of player did you expect? We can't afford the proven 20+ goal strikers in this league like Lambert, Austin (and even then he's only played 1 season) etc.

    Anyone from the Championship is going to be a "reject" like Akpo who has something to prove, someone who hasn't done much for a year or two. So a gamble.

    A Premier League player would be a youngster on loan. Again a gamble.

    Anyone from League Two or below is a bigger gamble than Abbott. Someone from abroad, even more of a gamble.

    Someone like Abbott probably needs good service, and I doubt Oldham had that consistently from many players in their team. If we use him right a player like him might well score 15-20 goals. Like I said, far too early to write him off based on "only" getting 13 goals in a team that finished 16th last season. Sometimes players just need a better team around them. He scored 27 in this division for Huddersfield, though that was 5/6 years ago.

    From what the Oldham and Darlington fan said, it sounds like he replace Burton's hold up and link play, which made us a better team. We're also likely to sign at least 1 if not 2 more strikers, they might be the answer.
  • 'What sort of player did you expect?'

    As I said, 'I'll put my hands up and say, no I can't think or find another alternative, but that's why I'm a fan and not the manager of the addicks who is supposed to be trusted to make the right decisions.'
  • You need a bit of phsicality in this division and I've no problems about Abbott and Akpo lining up together, perhaps with Bauza behind them in an attacking midfielder type role.

    Bear in mind that we need to replace not just Burton's goals and contribution but also that of Bailry and his goals from midfield.

    Considering the lack of money to get someone in like Abbott who has a decent record in a poor Oldham team suggests that given luck with injuries and better service that he'll do enough.

    Remember our two best strikers in recent years - Clive Mendonca and Daren Bent arived from a relegated Grimsby and an Ipswich team that hardly set the world alight.
  • [cite]Posted By: Sir Chrissy[/cite]Abbott clearly wasn't wanted by Oldham, a team most probably happy with mid table mediocrity, so why would a team (we hope) looking for a play off place want him?

    Burton scored 14 times last season in 44 league and cup games. 1 in 3, just like Abbott, and we all know how close we were to promotion. Maybe Abbott and Sodje will not be the ideal front two, but i'm sure Parkinson is looking for another striker or two.

    Your 20 goal a season may be here already. Time will tell.
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  • I hope you are all right with what you're saying. I can't get excited yet but will hold judgement.
  • The whole league is looking for a 20 a season man, rarer than rocking horse shit.
  • http://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/page/NewsUpdate/0,,10337~2106604,00.html

    Looking at the Oldham site and checking who the strikers Dickov talks about are, he is taking a gamble on 2 young strikers, 3 new signings (one from the Irish league) and hopes to sign a loanee from the Prem.

    Dickov also said he can't guarantee any of them first team football, yet he was their only proven striker and their fans don't seem to be happy at all with the decision.

    The manager might have not wanted to keep him, but that doesn't appear to be anything to do with ability.
  • Fair comment then Scoham.
  • [cite]Posted By: RedZed333[/cite]My main concern is, apart from Doherty, none of the players have come from sides that did very well last season...

    Hmmm ..... interesting point, RedZed.

    Doc was promoted with Norwich, of course - as you say. But you don't mention that Jackson was also promoted with Notts County.

    Anyway, we saw for ourselves what Jackson was capable of, when he was on loan here last season.
    And he played under Parky at Colchester also. So hardly an unknown quantity.


    McCormack and Francis were relegated with Southend - but that doesn't tell the whole story, does it?

    For the first half of the season, Southend did pretty well hovering just outside the play off positions - and then their financial situation struck home, a couple of key players were sold in a fire sale, others were let go to reduce the wage bill ..... and then the players weren't paid their wages. So a substantially weakened team saw morale plummet on and off the pitch.


    Reid signed. Again, we all saw for ourselves last season what he's capable of.
    But neither his parent club and Charlton hardly struggled last season.

    And now Pav has signed from a side that again struggled in the 2nd half of the season but held a top half position up to around Xmas. There can be many reasons for that, losing key players through injury, sometimes just loss of form.

    But that's all last season's record. And new players will come here eager to do well.
  • edited July 2010
    What exactly is the definition of a '20 goal a season striker'? Someone who has reached that marker once in a season? Or consistently? And does it have to have been at this level?

    Because if we can quantify it, and then plug in the stats, I would imagine that players who have scored 20 goals for several seasons at this level can be counted on the fingers of one hand, and then if you consider whether they're attainable/affordable that figure drops to zero. So what is the definition? Because I'd wager we could take those criteria and find that no such affordable player exists.

    If we look at the players who scored 20 goals last season, with the exception of Lambert and Barnard who were signed by Southampton for big money and wages, none of those players came to their club with a '20 goal a season at this level' record

    Paynter - Came to Swindon after a mediocre start to his career at a few league clubs
    Beckford - Plucked from non-league
    Holt - Only one 20 goal season in League 2
    Morison - Plucked from non-league
    Austin - Plucked from non-league

    Agree entirely with Scoham that our alternative options are limited to a Championship reject, a prem youngster on loan, someone from a lower league or someone from abroad. All we can do is sign someone who might score 20 at this level, and considering he got 13 in a poor side last year, Abbott has as good a chance as most. Record only counts for so much (lets not forget that Mcleod was a '20 goal a season striker' at league 2 level!) and no one's tied to churning out exactly the same amount of goals each season.
  • edited July 2010
    Whilst he didn't set the world on fire today, he looks like a proper league one striker. He is a big bloke, looked good on the deck and chucked himself into a few tackles when tracking back.

    As I said on the match thread he linked up well with Bauza. Bauza lookedmuch better today. I'd definitely get him in.
  • Interesting analysis, Sussex.


    For a striker to score 20 goals a season, he needs to play in a team on form, the right complimentary players around him, a service that is going to provide many more chances than are actually converted ....... and be damned lucky with injuries.

    It's a tall order for most strikers. So of course most of them don't achieve it - well certainly not consistantly season after season.

    But many can have a decent season and weigh in with 13 or 14 goals; that's certainly respectable for a player who, injuries etc permitting, will play around 40 games a season - which hits the target that a competant striker is expected to reach, e.g. 1 goal in 3 games.


    Abbott at Oldham last season illustrates the point - played 38 games, scored 13; thus hitting a striker's standard 1 in 3 conversion average. And he did this playing as the lone striker, without decent support in a side that finished a lowly 16th.

    No reason why he won't at least reach last year's tally this season at Charlton, and with a plentiful supply of chances would no doubt hope to get nearer the 20 goal mark.


    Okay, we've now lost Bailey and Burton with their 13 goal hauls - but looking at our last season's scorers who are still here - Akpo weighed in with 6 in 24 games (many sub appearances), and Reid 4 goals in 18. If they double their appearances, no reason why they shoudn't double their tallies this time. Same applies to Waggy, could score 8 or 9. And no doubt they'll be at least another midfielder/deep forward (Bauza?) who'll pick up 7 or 8. ...... not to mention AN Other, yet to be signed or borrowed.

    Expect another 6, maybe even 10 goals from the defenders chipping in ..... every chance then, that we'll have goals scored from all around the team. IMO that's healthy .......and possibly even a better bet than relying on one individual striker to score his 20 goals. One serious injury and he's out of contention. Remember Darren Bent getting injured scoring our equaliser at home to Villa? He missed 2 months; the team missed his goals - and there was no other player in the team capable of scoring consistantly. Did that ultimately cost us Prem status?

    So best not to depend on one striker hitting that 20 goal mark. He might well miss a vital chunk of the season.
    But not so crucial if the goals are scored from all around the team.
  • edited July 2010
    Sir Chrissy...you got to look at this way fella.....

    The seasons before we bought Super Clive and Andy Hunt, I bet we as supporters didnt think we they would score as many as they did! Anyway I dont know what all this talk about a '20 goal a season' player is all about!?Some teams at both Championship and League 1 level have '20 goal a season' players but that doesnt necessarily grant them promotion!Take Swindon for a great example.....They had two '20 goal a season' strikers and a midfielder in Danny Ward who chipped in massively....did they go up? No because the other players around them didnt chip in enough themselves.
    What I'm saying is, Bauza could come in, notch up 12 goals, Abbott could get the 15 goals (like he got at Oldham but I think he will score more this season with service). Sodje could bang in a few, i repeat COULD.Then if goals come from the midfield in Reid, Racon and Waggy. Not forgetting Doc and Dailly from set pieces and Johnnie Jackson on free kicks. Do you see what I'm saying?I personally cant see what all the fuss is about with signing a 20 goal a season player, thats if Parky even found one anyway??We need another decent winger in, and a cover each in the centre of the park and the centre of defence.
  • I love all this "we need a 20+ goal a season striker" business.

    Whenever we've had one - Mendonca, Hunt then Bent in recent years - people always seem to come out with guff like, "we need another 20 goal a season striker to take the pressure off the other bloke - when he plays bad we don't score".

    So, basically, we need two 20+ goal a season strikers, a couple of dangerous wingers who lay goals on a plate and chip in with a few themselves, plus an attacking midfield to weigh in with 5 or 6 each, the centre halves bagging their fair share from corners and other set pieces, plus a couple of speculative long rangers from the full backs. That should cover it, or am I asking for too much?
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  • Haha nail on the head comes to mind Off_it!
  • Even without the fabled 20 goal striker ..... last season we scored 73 goals, with a top scorers of 13 goals each.

    Leeds were promoted automatically having scored 77.
    Millwall also promoted having scored 76 in the League.

    IMO our goals scored was decent (obviously could've been better), but we conceded 57 goals which again in IMO let us down, affecting GD.

    NB: Millwall scored 8 of those 57 goals conceded .....!!
  • [cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]I love all this "we need a 20+ goal a season striker" business.

    Whenever we've had one - Mendonca, Hunt then Bent in recent years - people always seem to come out with guff like, "we need another 20 goal a season striker to take the pressure off the other bloke - when he plays bad we don't score".

    So, basically, we need two 20+ goal a season strikers, a couple of dangerous wingers who lay goals on a plate and chip in with a few themselves, plus an attacking midfield to weigh in with 5 or 6 each, the centre halves bagging their fair share from corners and other set pieces, plus a couple of speculative long rangers from the full backs. That should cover it, or am I asking for too much?

    And people would still be moaning that we only scored 80 goals, Llera should've been picked as striker, and why did we sell Darren Bent?

    And of course, Parky OUT!
  • Burton scored 14 goals last season.How many were penalties ?
  • 5 I think.
  • He needed the bollox to score them though, so don't dismiss them, as he did not miss any.
  • That's a good analysis Sussex.

    I think what people mean when they say 20 goal a season is a consistent goalscorer. I'm not sure how many times Mendonca scored more than 20, before he joined us and played in a team which created lots of chances for him, but I think he consistently got around 15 to 18. If you do that throughout your career then you demonstrate you are a decent finisher who knows what positions to take up to find yourself in goalscoring positions. Over the years we've had many strikers that do one or the other (JJ was a good finisher who didn't get that many chances, Lisbie the opposite), but few who do both. From Abbott's career stats it would appear he stands a fair chance of getting well into double figures, if he has a season where all things are right for him (injuries, service and playing style of the team) he's capable of being truly prolific, as in 04/05 when he got 27 for Huddersfield.

    Most strikers, or at least goalscorers, are only ever as good as the midfield providing the chances behind them and obviously different styles of play bring the best out of different players. Lets hope we're set up right for Abbbott and the midfield get's creating (which is one small concern I have based on pre-season and no replacement for Sam being signed yet) as it would appear he has the potential if we use him right.

    One big plus though, it would appear, while goals are very much part of his game, he's not all about goals and if he's left his shooting boots in Oldham, he should still do enough team play to justify his signing and place in the team.

    I hope anyway!
  • edited July 2010
    [cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Even without the fabled 20 goal striker ..... last season we scored 73 goals, with a top scorers of 13 goals each.

    Leeds were promoted automatically having scored 77.
    Millwall also promoted having scored 76 in the League.

    This is correct, and I said a few times last season that the fixation on the other teams having a '20 goal a season striker' was misleading, as none of those sides had a goalscoring midfielder like Bailey, and thus it evened out.

    However, we no longer have Bailey and so either need a prolific striker or for others in the side to step up. As you say, perhaps the likes of Waggy and Reid can fill the gap.
    [cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]I love all this "we need a 20+ goal a season striker" business.

    Whenever we've had one - Mendonca, Hunt then Bent in recent years - people always seem to come out with guff like, "we need another 20 goal a season striker to take the pressure off the other bloke - when he plays bad we don't score".

    So, basically, we need two 20+ goal a season strikers, a couple of dangerous wingers who lay goals on a plate and chip in with a few themselves, plus an attacking midfield to weigh in with 5 or 6 each, the centre halves bagging their fair share from corners and other set pieces, plus a couple of speculative long rangers from the full backs. That should cover it, or am I asking for too much?

    I have some mates who are Leeds fans and it amused me when they claimed last season that they were too reliant on Beckford, as opposed to the likes of Charlton who 'get goals from all over'. So we moaned that we didn't have a prolific striker like Beckford, and they moaned that they weren't multi-faceted like Charlton!

    Personally I don't think we have a chance this year unless we sign a '15 assists a season' winger and a '50 clearances a season' centre back.
  • The number of goals we need to score depends on how many we let in at the other end.

    We could win every game with 46 goals.

    Defence is really the key to this season. The new signings look solid players.
  • Lack of pace at the back is my biggest worry.

    Docherty,Dailly and Llera are hardly going to break any land speed records.
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