I really do think there is a world of dirrence in living in cosy middle class communities where you have a choice, in leafy Bexley ( as I do) and Chiselhurst, Bickley, and Blackheath, and on an estate in Plumstead, Woolwich and Charlton to name but a few.
This is like the gatted communities of Belair, or LA in the hills saying that LA is wonderful, with there private security guards, and bond street shops, of Gucci, Prada, and Tiffany.....The same could be said for NewYork and Manhatten!, and most other major cities I guess.
Okay an exaggeration, but have you people ever lived on a council estate!, or what was one?
The only choice you have there is to live there or not!,no private schools, private education, and private nurseries for the majority I am afraid...... Try walking around Woolwich late at night, or Bexleyheath, Peckham,Thamesmead, and so on.......
Of course it is not all about murders, drugs , and gangs!.
It is about living in a community with choice, and respect for others, there cultures, and having some self respect.
If you look for the negative you will always find it, either in people or areas, I have found that most people are decent!, but then I live in a nice midle class enviroment!
Have lived in the Charlton area for 11 out of the last 13 years and it is very interesting to see the real mix of people around here, including professional people with young families who must see something about the place that they like.
A lot of it must come down to your own personal experience, and how directly you are affected by crime - although it does bring it home when there is someone killed in the street and a serious assault in your own road in the space of a few years.
The amount of litter and lack of general care for the area also gets depressing at times, but at the same time I would still defend it as a place to live.
We're likely to try to move in the next year or so, probably more to the outskirts of London, but I'm under no illusions that it will be to some sort of utopia.
TCE Missing the point a bit - no one was criticising those who live in any of those areas - and I live in one of them. The point of the thread is more 'London is the best city or not to live in.' The fact that London has so many areas in dire need of regeneration (and Woolwich is transforming itself recently) detracts from the claim that London is the greatest. The fact that London has lost a million people from its total population since 1950s tells a tale too. As mentioned before, we are all biased because we all support a London team, so it has to have a special place in our hearts, wherever we live, but claiming its the greatest city in the world might be a tad OTT?!
But what reasonably sized city in the world doesn't have areas in need of regeneration Floyd? I don't know that there isn't but I'd be surprised. I don't think there's one in Britain. And with regard to the total population drop thing, surely that's a good thing as London was severely overcrowded then?
So much crap in this thread I wouldn't know where to start.
For the record, I love the place. More than happy with where I am (New Eltham) and have no intentions of moving. Sure, it's not perfect - but where is? Have been to a fair few cities here and abroad and some are nice, some not so nice. But I still wouldn't want to live anywhere else. If I ever did then I would move, rather than moan about it on an internet message board.
Oh, and winscreen, if I'd really wanted to "diss" you then I would've called you mental, wouldn't I - but that would be unfair.
[cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite]Okay an exaggeration, but have you people ever lived on a council estate!, or what was one?
I lived on the Ferrier Estate for a couple of years. It was OK at the time. I wouldn't want to frequent the pub they had there, but it was an easy walk to the Blackheath pubs. And that is one of the things about London, and many other cities to be fair; it gives you options.
I think London is unique in having nice areas such as Blackhealth next to not so nice areas such as Kidbroke and Lewisham. Dulwich & Peckham, Greenwich & Deptford being other examples. Bizarre. South Kensington is extremely well off with some of the best museums in the world, whereas North Kensington is a hole.
Anyone who complains about the general level if scum in London should spend a few weeks in Hull, the place manages to take scum to a whole new level, luckily for me I don't venture into 'real' hull that often and just stick to the student areas!
I [quote][cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite]Okay an exaggeration, but have you people ever lived on a council estate!, or what was one?[/quote]
I lived on the Ferrier Estate for a couple of years. It was OK at the time. I wouldn't want to frequent the pub they had there, but it was an easy walk to the Blackheath pubs. And that is one of the things about London, and many other cities to be fair; it gives you options.
Ferrier!.... Well that shithole closed did it not!..... Interessting that you cite Blackheath as the area, to get a drink.... ( do not blame you about the pub) and my brother's wife lived on the Ferrier ...... As others have posted Blackheath park road is a lovely road to live in..... literally a short walk from the Ferrier, and there is an estate at the back of the Paragon on the heath!.
If you go down Blackheath hill you are soon into Deptford, or what was Deptford, into New cross and Peckham. For a time I lived in Brockley, no issues at all, freindly neighbours and near to London. Quite a few of my extended family come from there around Hillyfields.
I would have no idea what it was like now ast I am going back 30 years ago, or more, so another time.......
There seems to be several threads intertwined. We almost all agree that London is a great city.
An objective non-football biased view can be gleaned from Mercers annual comparisons. In case anyone is interested
Rank 2010 City Country Qol index 2010 1 VIENNA AUSTRIA 108.6 2 ZURICH SWITZERLAND 108 3 GENEVA SWITZERLAND 107.9 4 VANCOUVER CANADA 107.4 4 AUCKLAND NEW ZEALAND 107.4 6 DUSSELDORF GERMANY 107.2 7 FRANKFURT GERMANY 107 7 MUNICH GERMANY 107 9 BERN SWITZERLAND 106.5 10 SYDNEY AUSTRALIA 106.3 11 COPENHAGEN DENMARK 106.2 12 WELLINGTON NEW ZEALAND 105.9 13 AMSTERDAM NETHERLANDS 105.7 14 OTTAWA CANADA 105.5 15 BRUSSELS BELGIUM 105.4 16 TORONTO CANADA 105.3 17 BERLIN GERMANY 105 18 MELBOURNE AUSTRALIA 104.8 19 LUXEMBOURG LUXEMBOURG 104.6 20 STOCKHOLM SWEDEN 104.5 21 PERTH AUSTRALIA 104.2 21 MONTREAL CANADA 104.2 23 HAMBURG GERMANY 104.1 24 NURNBURG GERMANY 103.9 24 OSLO NORWAY 103.9 26 CANBERRA AUSTRALIA 103.6 26 DUBLIN IRELAND 103.6 28 CALGARY CANADA 103.5 28 SINGAPORE SINGAPORE 103.5 30 STUTTGART GERMANY 103.3 31 HONOLULU UNITED STATES 103.1 32 ADELAIDE AUSTRALIA 103 32 SAN FRANCISCO UNITED STATES 103 34 PARIS FRANCE 102.9 35 HELSINKI FINLAND 102.6 36 BRISBANE AUSTRALIA 102.4 37 BOSTON UNITED STATES 102.2 38 LYON FRANCE 101.9 39 LONDON UNITED KINGDOM 101.6 40 TOKYO JAPAN 101.4 41 MILAN ITALY 100.8 41 KOBE JAPAN 100.8 41 YOKOHAMA JAPAN 100.8 44 BARCELONA SPAIN 100.6 45 LISBON PORTUGAL 100.3 45 CHICAGO UNITED STATES 100.3 45 WASHINGTON UNITED STATES 100.3 48 MADRID SPAIN 100.2 49 NEW YORK CITY UNITED STATES 100 50 SEATTLE UNITED STATES 99.8
Parts of London are a shitehole, always have been, always will be, that's the way of most major cities throughout the world but one positive thing about being born and bred in London is the thorough grounding it gives you in life, live and survive in London and you'll live and survive anywhere...
In the early seventies I worked as a steelfixer and worked in every major city, town and village in every shire in the country and nothing ever phased me, compare to London everywhere seemed so tame, locals used to say 'Oh, you don't want to go in that pub, it's reet rough', compared to the Mortar on a Saturday night it would be a kindergarden...
Moved to Sunderland in 1976, got a council house in Pennywell, reputedly one of the most deprived and crime ridden estates in Europe, compared to Barnfield Gardens it was a love nest, it did have its problems but on a par with London it was relatively low key...
I travel to London two or three times a season and apart from the obvious physical changes to the infrastructure nothing's changed very much, everywhere is full of millions of little ant like people of all colours, races, cultures and sizes busily going everywhere and nowhere fast as they can secretly hoping they can get there without getting stabbed, mugged or being pestered by Romanians looking for your unused travelcard...
Loved London and Woolwich when I was young, wouldn't touch it with a bargepole now, but had I not moved away years ago I probably wouldn't have even noticed the changes because I would have been part of the natural assimilation...
[cite]Posted By: RedZed333[/cite]Loved London and Woolwich when I was young, wouldn't touch it with a bargepole now, but had I not moved away years ago I probably wouldn't have even noticed the changes because I would have been part of the natural assimilation...
Nicely put, RedZed ... and exactly the point behind my earlier question (for those who claim that London is a great place to live, how many of you have lived elsewhere?).
Not taking a pop at living in London, or ignoring the fact that many, many people choose to come here, but simply asking whether your opinion is based on knowledge or ignorance of living elsewhere. We all have different criteria, and generally none are more 'right' than others, but you usually find that there is an in-built preference for what you know rather than what you don't know.
I went to Charlton v Sunderland in 1980, the year we got relegated, went with a few Sunderland lads on the train, we got off at Kings Cross and I took them to a few 'local haunts', they were absolutely bricking it the whole time and couldn't wait until we got to the safety of the Valley...
They just never had a clue, their only ever previous experince of the 'Smoke' was travelling down on a coach, getting off, into the ground, watch the match, get out the ground, back on the coach and back to the grotty shipyards and coal mines of home...
They used to take the piss out of the way I crossed the road too and is wasn't until I thought about it they were right, Londoners always seem just cross the road where ever they are regardless of the traffic, if I hadn't learned to cross the Beresford Market as a kid I'd still be spending most of my time waiting for bloody greenman to turn green before crossing the road...
Comments
This is like the gatted communities of Belair, or LA in the hills saying that LA is wonderful, with there private security guards, and bond street shops, of Gucci, Prada, and Tiffany.....The same could be said for NewYork and Manhatten!, and most other major cities I guess.
Okay an exaggeration, but have you people ever lived on a council estate!, or what was one?
The only choice you have there is to live there or not!,no private schools, private education, and private nurseries for the majority I am afraid......
Try walking around Woolwich late at night, or Bexleyheath, Peckham,Thamesmead, and so on.......
Of course it is not all about murders, drugs , and gangs!.
It is about living in a community with choice, and respect for others, there cultures, and having some self respect.
If you look for the negative you will always find it, either in people or areas, I have found that most people are decent!, but then I live in a nice midle class enviroment!
And I quite enjoy the grittiness of London
A lot of it must come down to your own personal experience, and how directly you are affected by crime - although it does bring it home when there is someone killed in the street and a serious assault in your own road in the space of a few years.
The amount of litter and lack of general care for the area also gets depressing at times, but at the same time I would still defend it as a place to live.
We're likely to try to move in the next year or so, probably more to the outskirts of London, but I'm under no illusions that it will be to some sort of utopia.
Missing the point a bit - no one was criticising those who live in any of those areas - and I live in one of them.
The point of the thread is more 'London is the best city or not to live in.'
The fact that London has so many areas in dire need of regeneration (and Woolwich is transforming itself recently) detracts from the claim that London is the greatest. The fact that London has lost a million people from its total population since 1950s tells a tale too.
As mentioned before, we are all biased because we all support a London team, so it has to have a special place in our hearts, wherever we live, but claiming its the greatest city in the world might be a tad OTT?!
For the record, I love the place. More than happy with where I am (New Eltham) and have no intentions of moving. Sure, it's not perfect - but where is? Have been to a fair few cities here and abroad and some are nice, some not so nice. But I still wouldn't want to live anywhere else. If I ever did then I would move, rather than moan about it on an internet message board.
Oh, and winscreen, if I'd really wanted to "diss" you then I would've called you mental, wouldn't I - but that would be unfair.
I lived on the Ferrier Estate for a couple of years. It was OK at the time. I wouldn't want to frequent the pub they had there, but it was an easy walk to the Blackheath pubs. And that is one of the things about London, and many other cities to be fair; it gives you options.
I lived on the Ferrier Estate for a couple of years. It was OK at the time. I wouldn't want to frequent the pub they had there, but it was an easy walk to the Blackheath pubs. And that is one of the things about London, and many other cities to be fair; it gives you options.
Ferrier!.... Well that shithole closed did it not!..... Interessting that you cite Blackheath as the area, to get a drink.... ( do not blame you about the pub) and my brother's wife lived on the Ferrier ......
As others have posted Blackheath park road is a lovely road to live in..... literally a short walk from the Ferrier, and there is an estate at the back of the Paragon on the heath!.
If you go down Blackheath hill you are soon into Deptford, or what was Deptford, into New cross and Peckham. For a time I lived in Brockley, no issues at all, freindly neighbours and near to London. Quite a few of my extended family come from there around Hillyfields.
I would have no idea what it was like now ast I am going back 30 years ago, or more, so another time.......
We almost all agree that London is a great city.
An objective non-football biased view can be gleaned from Mercers annual comparisons.
In case anyone is interested
Rank 2010 City Country Qol index 2010
1 VIENNA AUSTRIA 108.6
2 ZURICH SWITZERLAND 108
3 GENEVA SWITZERLAND 107.9
4 VANCOUVER CANADA 107.4
4 AUCKLAND NEW ZEALAND 107.4
6 DUSSELDORF GERMANY 107.2
7 FRANKFURT GERMANY 107
7 MUNICH GERMANY 107
9 BERN SWITZERLAND 106.5
10 SYDNEY AUSTRALIA 106.3
11 COPENHAGEN DENMARK 106.2
12 WELLINGTON NEW ZEALAND 105.9
13 AMSTERDAM NETHERLANDS 105.7
14 OTTAWA CANADA 105.5
15 BRUSSELS BELGIUM 105.4
16 TORONTO CANADA 105.3
17 BERLIN GERMANY 105
18 MELBOURNE AUSTRALIA 104.8
19 LUXEMBOURG LUXEMBOURG 104.6
20 STOCKHOLM SWEDEN 104.5
21 PERTH AUSTRALIA 104.2
21 MONTREAL CANADA 104.2
23 HAMBURG GERMANY 104.1
24 NURNBURG GERMANY 103.9
24 OSLO NORWAY 103.9
26 CANBERRA AUSTRALIA 103.6
26 DUBLIN IRELAND 103.6
28 CALGARY CANADA 103.5
28 SINGAPORE SINGAPORE 103.5
30 STUTTGART GERMANY 103.3
31 HONOLULU UNITED STATES 103.1
32 ADELAIDE AUSTRALIA 103
32 SAN FRANCISCO UNITED STATES 103
34 PARIS FRANCE 102.9
35 HELSINKI FINLAND 102.6
36 BRISBANE AUSTRALIA 102.4
37 BOSTON UNITED STATES 102.2
38 LYON FRANCE 101.9
39 LONDON UNITED KINGDOM 101.6
40 TOKYO JAPAN 101.4
41 MILAN ITALY 100.8
41 KOBE JAPAN 100.8
41 YOKOHAMA JAPAN 100.8
44 BARCELONA SPAIN 100.6
45 LISBON PORTUGAL 100.3
45 CHICAGO UNITED STATES 100.3
45 WASHINGTON UNITED STATES 100.3
48 MADRID SPAIN 100.2
49 NEW YORK CITY UNITED STATES 100
50 SEATTLE UNITED STATES 99.8
In the early seventies I worked as a steelfixer and worked in every major city, town and village in every shire in the country and nothing ever phased me, compare to London everywhere seemed so tame, locals used to say 'Oh, you don't want to go in that pub, it's reet rough', compared to the Mortar on a Saturday night it would be a kindergarden...
Moved to Sunderland in 1976, got a council house in Pennywell, reputedly one of the most deprived and crime ridden estates in Europe, compared to Barnfield Gardens it was a love nest, it did have its problems but on a par with London it was relatively low key...
I travel to London two or three times a season and apart from the obvious physical changes to the infrastructure nothing's changed very much, everywhere is full of millions of little ant like people of all colours, races, cultures and sizes busily going everywhere and nowhere fast as they can secretly hoping they can get there without getting stabbed, mugged or being pestered by Romanians looking for your unused travelcard...
Loved London and Woolwich when I was young, wouldn't touch it with a bargepole now, but had I not moved away years ago I probably wouldn't have even noticed the changes because I would have been part of the natural assimilation...
Nicely put, RedZed ... and exactly the point behind my earlier question (for those who claim that London is a great place to live, how many of you have lived elsewhere?).
Not taking a pop at living in London, or ignoring the fact that many, many people choose to come here, but simply asking whether your opinion is based on knowledge or ignorance of living elsewhere. We all have different criteria, and generally none are more 'right' than others, but you usually find that there is an in-built preference for what you know rather than what you don't know.
They just never had a clue, their only ever previous experince of the 'Smoke' was travelling down on a coach, getting off, into the ground, watch the match, get out the ground, back on the coach and back to the grotty shipyards and coal mines of home...
They used to take the piss out of the way I crossed the road too and is wasn't until I thought about it they were right, Londoners always seem just cross the road where ever they are regardless of the traffic, if I hadn't learned to cross the Beresford Market as a kid I'd still be spending most of my time waiting for bloody greenman to turn green before crossing the road...
Living in London is an art...