Does it explain why these two gents have waited 10 years after his death to go public with their revelations?
No offence AFKA but it’s bewildering why this question is always asked of victims - it’s been answered a thousand times, by people far more knowledgeable and eloquent than me on this very forum.
No offence, what's the answer then in the Jackson case ?
There is surely no time limit when you, the person abused, are ready to come forward. There maybe many deciding factors like school, work, personal relationships etc that may effect you hiding something as serious as this. Some people take decades before they are ready because it’s they who have been mentally and physically scared, not the abuser who’s been dead 10 days or 10 years.
Yes I understand all this. My point is, having only partly watched episode 1 ... They haven't kept quiet for a long time until the time felt right, as far as I'm aware. I thought they testified at his trial in 2005 (guess) and said he did nothing to them. (Apologies if wrong). Why 14 years later say he did abuse them, after giving evidence in court saying he didn't ?
Interesting documentary but I personally don’t believe it.
Is there a reason why you dot believe it? Just curious
Plenty.
Care to say?
There’s no point because most of the arguments have been made already and this will probably turn into one of those threads that you’re only allowed one opinion on.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Why pay people off if you've got nothing to hide? Sounds good for credibility.
In the case of MJ, he was being sued by an utter scumbag in the form of Evan Chandler and iirc had to choose between cancelling his biggest ever world tour and going to court, or giving into Chandler’s extortion and paying what was, to Jackson, an insignificant amount to make the whole thing go away.
In hindsight he chose poorly (even though the LAPD admitted they didn’t believe there was any compelling evidence of wrongdoing). It eventually led to another case a decade later (in which he was acquitted) and now this.
Chandler wanted custody of his son and, more importantly, a huge pay off from Jackson. He was recorded admitting to drugging and effectively brainwashing his own boy (Jordan) to make this happen with the help of a dodgy, desperate lawyer. Jordan denied any molestation until that occurred.
I haven't seen this doc yet. I listened to the director give an interview and honestly, I thought he came across as questionable at best. He was especially evasive when it came to the question of balance.
IMHO Jackson was weird, inappropriate and a man child. But he wasn’t a child molester. Rather, he did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children. Hell, Corey Feldman has a crusade against Hollywood paedophilia going on yet he’s staunchly defended Jackson. As have the Culkin brothers and a number of others, including Jordan Chandler’s own mother. Given the sheer volume of children that went through Neverland, it just doesn’t fit that these two are the only victims (I absolutely discount Chandler and the 2005 case in which he was acquitted).
I also think the press - especially our tabloids - conditioned us into believing some bizarre rumours about the man which made the molestation charges more realistic.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since I read up on all this, but my opinion has long been that Evan Chandler ruined him in the long term. And I gather it’s why Chandler killed himself not long after Jackson died.
Interesting documentary but I personally don’t believe it.
Is there a reason why you dot believe it? Just curious
Plenty.
Care to say?
There’s no point because most of the arguments have been made already and this will probably turn into one of those threads that you’re only allowed one opinion on.
If one of his accusers took a lie detector test, that would clear it up in my mind. Same thing with R-Kelly - instead of getting upset on camera, take a public lie detector test.
There’s a reason lie detectors aren’t used in court - they’re complete horseshit. Pseudoscience. A myth perpetuated by films and tv shows.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Why pay people off if you've got nothing to hide? Sounds good for credibility.
In the case of MJ, he was being sued by an utter scumbag in the form of Evan Chandler and iirc had to choose between cancelling his biggest ever world tour and going to court, or giving into Chandler’s extortion and paying what was, to Jackson, an insignificant amount to make the whole thing go away.
In hindsight he chose poorly (even though the LAPD admitted they didn’t believe there was any compelling evidence of wrongdoing). It eventually led to another case a decade later (in which he was acquitted) and now this.
Chandler wanted custody of his son and, more importantly, a huge pay off from Jackson. He was recorded admitting to drugging and effectively brainwashing his own boy (Jordan) to make this happen with the help of a dodgy, desperate lawyer. Jordan denied any molestation until that occurred.
I haven't seen this doc yet. I listened to the director give an interview and honestly, I thought he came across as questionable at best. He was especially evasive when it came to the question of balance.
IMHO Jackson was weird, inappropriate and a man child. But he wasn’t a child molester. Rather, he did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children. Hell, Corey Feldman has a crusade against Hollywood paedophilia going on yet he’s staunchly defended Jackson. As have the Culkin brothers and a number of others, including Jordan Chandler’s own mother. Given the sheer volume of children that went through Neverland, it just doesn’t fit that these two are the only victims (I absolutely discount Chandler and the 2005 case in which he was acquitted).
I also think the press - especially our tabloids - conditioned us into believing some bizarre rumours about the man which made the molestation charges more realistic.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since I read up on all this, but my opinion has long been that Evan Chandler ruined him in the long term. And I gather it’s why Chandler killed himself not long after Jackson died.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Why pay people off if you've got nothing to hide? Sounds good for credibility.
In the case of MJ, he was being sued by an utter scumbag in the form of Evan Chandler and iirc had to choose between cancelling his biggest ever world tour and going to court, or giving into Chandler’s extortion and paying what was, to Jackson, an insignificant amount to make the whole thing go away.
In hindsight he chose poorly (even though the LAPD admitted they didn’t believe there was any compelling evidence of wrongdoing). It eventually led to another case a decade later (in which he was acquitted) and now this.
Chandler wanted custody of his son and, more importantly, a huge pay off from Jackson. He was recorded admitting to drugging and effectively brainwashing his own boy (Jordan) to make this happen with the help of a dodgy, desperate lawyer. Jordan denied any molestation until that occurred.
I haven't seen this doc yet. I listened to the director give an interview and honestly, I thought he came across as questionable at best. He was especially evasive when it came to the question of balance.
IMHO Jackson was weird, inappropriate and a man child. But he wasn’t a child molester. Rather, he did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children. Hell, Corey Feldman has a crusade against Hollywood paedophilia going on yet he’s staunchly defended Jackson. As have the Culkin brothers and a number of others, including Jordan Chandler’s own mother. Given the sheer volume of children that went through Neverland, it just doesn’t fit that these two are the only victims (I absolutely discount Chandler and the 2005 case in which he was acquitted).
I also think the press - especially our tabloids - conditioned us into believing some bizarre rumours about the man which made the molestation charges more realistic.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since I read up on all this, but my opinion has long been that Evan Chandler ruined him in the long term. And I gather it’s why Chandler killed himself not long after Jackson died.
Getting back to the serious subject of sex abuse. I haven't watched the program but have read about it, were the parents so star struck that they had no problem with their Children sleeping in the same bed as an adult ? Michael Jackson showed all the signs of a paedophile, yet because he was a talented artist, it was looked upon as harmless cuddles.
So many, very rich people, buy the silence. Such a bizarre case. IF guilty, Michael Jackson would have gone to his grave believing he did nothing wrong because that's how paedophiles brains work.
Leaving aside the actual abuse claims, I tend to think that if the person at the center of all this was an old bloke in a piss stained mac, he'd be hung out to dry, just on the basis that he liked the company of boys and had them sleep in his bed. But, because it's Jacko, he was just misunderstood and the victims are inspired by money etc.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Why pay people off if you've got nothing to hide? Sounds good for credibility.
In the case of MJ, he was being sued by an utter scumbag in the form of Evan Chandler and iirc had to choose between cancelling his biggest ever world tour and going to court, or giving into Chandler’s extortion and paying what was, to Jackson, an insignificant amount to make the whole thing go away.
In hindsight he chose poorly (even though the LAPD admitted they didn’t believe there was any compelling evidence of wrongdoing). It eventually led to another case a decade later (in which he was acquitted) and now this.
Chandler wanted custody of his son and, more importantly, a huge pay off from Jackson. He was recorded admitting to drugging and effectively brainwashing his own boy (Jordan) to make this happen with the help of a dodgy, desperate lawyer. Jordan denied any molestation until that occurred.
I haven't seen this doc yet. I listened to the director give an interview and honestly, I thought he came across as questionable at best. He was especially evasive when it came to the question of balance.
IMHO Jackson was weird, inappropriate and a man child. But he wasn’t a child molester. Rather, he did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children. Hell, Corey Feldman has a crusade against Hollywood paedophilia going on yet he’s staunchly defended Jackson. As have the Culkin brothers and a number of others, including Jordan Chandler’s own mother. Given the sheer volume of children that went through Neverland, it just doesn’t fit that these two are the only victims (I absolutely discount Chandler and the 2005 case in which he was acquitted).
I also think the press - especially our tabloids - conditioned us into believing some bizarre rumours about the man which made the molestation charges more realistic.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since I read up on all this, but my opinion has long been that Evan Chandler ruined him in the long term. And I gather it’s why Chandler killed himself not long after Jackson died.
Leaving aside the actual abuse claims, I tend to think that if the person at the center of all this was an old bloke in a piss stained mac, he'd be hung out to dry, just on the basis that he liked the company of boys and had them sleep in his bed. But, because it's Jacko, he was just misunderstood and the victims are inspired by money etc.
Exactly. He admitted to having young boys in his bed, that is inappropriate behaviour for a fully grown man and was for his pleasure. If that was the bloke at the end of the road the outcry would be universal. A few songs and dance moves shouldn’t change that.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Why pay people off if you've got nothing to hide? Sounds good for credibility.
In the case of MJ, he was being sued by an utter scumbag in the form of Evan Chandler and iirc had to choose between cancelling his biggest ever world tour and going to court, or giving into Chandler’s extortion and paying what was, to Jackson, an insignificant amount to make the whole thing go away.
In hindsight he chose poorly (even though the LAPD admitted they didn’t believe there was any compelling evidence of wrongdoing). It eventually led to another case a decade later (in which he was acquitted) and now this.
Chandler wanted custody of his son and, more importantly, a huge pay off from Jackson. He was recorded admitting to drugging and effectively brainwashing his own boy (Jordan) to make this happen with the help of a dodgy, desperate lawyer. Jordan denied any molestation until that occurred.
I haven't seen this doc yet. I listened to the director give an interview and honestly, I thought he came across as questionable at best. He was especially evasive when it came to the question of balance.
IMHO Jackson was weird, inappropriate and a man child. But he wasn’t a child molester. Rather, he did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children. Hell, Corey Feldman has a crusade against Hollywood paedophilia going on yet he’s staunchly defended Jackson. As have the Culkin brothers and a number of others, including Jordan Chandler’s own mother. Given the sheer volume of children that went through Neverland, it just doesn’t fit that these two are the only victims (I absolutely discount Chandler and the 2005 case in which he was acquitted).
I also think the press - especially our tabloids - conditioned us into believing some bizarre rumours about the man which made the molestation charges more realistic.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since I read up on all this, but my opinion has long been that Evan Chandler ruined him in the long term. And I gather it’s why Chandler killed himself not long after Jackson died.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Why pay people off if you've got nothing to hide? Sounds good for credibility.
In the case of MJ, he was being sued by an utter scumbag in the form of Evan Chandler and iirc had to choose between cancelling his biggest ever world tour and going to court, or giving into Chandler’s extortion and paying what was, to Jackson, an insignificant amount to make the whole thing go away.
In hindsight he chose poorly (even though the LAPD admitted they didn’t believe there was any compelling evidence of wrongdoing). It eventually led to another case a decade later (in which he was acquitted) and now this.
Chandler wanted custody of his son and, more importantly, a huge pay off from Jackson. He was recorded admitting to drugging and effectively brainwashing his own boy (Jordan) to make this happen with the help of a dodgy, desperate lawyer. Jordan denied any molestation until that occurred.
I haven't seen this doc yet. I listened to the director give an interview and honestly, I thought he came across as questionable at best. He was especially evasive when it came to the question of balance.
IMHO Jackson was weird, inappropriate and a man child. But he wasn’t a child molester. Rather, he did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children. Hell, Corey Feldman has a crusade against Hollywood paedophilia going on yet he’s staunchly defended Jackson. As have the Culkin brothers and a number of others, including Jordan Chandler’s own mother. Given the sheer volume of children that went through Neverland, it just doesn’t fit that these two are the only victims (I absolutely discount Chandler and the 2005 case in which he was acquitted).
I also think the press - especially our tabloids - conditioned us into believing some bizarre rumours about the man which made the molestation charges more realistic.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since I read up on all this, but my opinion has long been that Evan Chandler ruined him in the long term. And I gather it’s why Chandler killed himself not long after Jackson died.
So did Jimmy Saville on the face of it.
I don’t respect that comparison.
It's exactly the same.
There’s a big question mark over whether Jackson molested or indeed hurt anybody.
Saville molested hundreds of women and children and had sex with corpses.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Why pay people off if you've got nothing to hide? Sounds good for credibility.
In the case of MJ, he was being sued by an utter scumbag in the form of Evan Chandler and iirc had to choose between cancelling his biggest ever world tour and going to court, or giving into Chandler’s extortion and paying what was, to Jackson, an insignificant amount to make the whole thing go away.
In hindsight he chose poorly (even though the LAPD admitted they didn’t believe there was any compelling evidence of wrongdoing). It eventually led to another case a decade later (in which he was acquitted) and now this.
Chandler wanted custody of his son and, more importantly, a huge pay off from Jackson. He was recorded admitting to drugging and effectively brainwashing his own boy (Jordan) to make this happen with the help of a dodgy, desperate lawyer. Jordan denied any molestation until that occurred.
I haven't seen this doc yet. I listened to the director give an interview and honestly, I thought he came across as questionable at best. He was especially evasive when it came to the question of balance.
IMHO Jackson was weird, inappropriate and a man child. But he wasn’t a child molester. Rather, he did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children. Hell, Corey Feldman has a crusade against Hollywood paedophilia going on yet he’s staunchly defended Jackson. As have the Culkin brothers and a number of others, including Jordan Chandler’s own mother. Given the sheer volume of children that went through Neverland, it just doesn’t fit that these two are the only victims (I absolutely discount Chandler and the 2005 case in which he was acquitted).
I also think the press - especially our tabloids - conditioned us into believing some bizarre rumours about the man which made the molestation charges more realistic.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since I read up on all this, but my opinion has long been that Evan Chandler ruined him in the long term. And I gather it’s why Chandler killed himself not long after Jackson died.
So did Jimmy Saville on the face of it.
I don’t respect that comparison.
It's exactly the same.
There’s a big question mark over whether Jackson molested or indeed hurt anybody.
Saville molested hundreds of women and children and had sex with corpses.
There's a question for you. I have no doubt about Jackson.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Why pay people off if you've got nothing to hide? Sounds good for credibility.
In the case of MJ, he was being sued by an utter scumbag in the form of Evan Chandler and iirc had to choose between cancelling his biggest ever world tour and going to court, or giving into Chandler’s extortion and paying what was, to Jackson, an insignificant amount to make the whole thing go away.
In hindsight he chose poorly (even though the LAPD admitted they didn’t believe there was any compelling evidence of wrongdoing). It eventually led to another case a decade later (in which he was acquitted) and now this.
Chandler wanted custody of his son and, more importantly, a huge pay off from Jackson. He was recorded admitting to drugging and effectively brainwashing his own boy (Jordan) to make this happen with the help of a dodgy, desperate lawyer. Jordan denied any molestation until that occurred.
I haven't seen this doc yet. I listened to the director give an interview and honestly, I thought he came across as questionable at best. He was especially evasive when it came to the question of balance.
IMHO Jackson was weird, inappropriate and a man child. But he wasn’t a child molester. Rather, he did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children. Hell, Corey Feldman has a crusade against Hollywood paedophilia going on yet he’s staunchly defended Jackson. As have the Culkin brothers and a number of others, including Jordan Chandler’s own mother. Given the sheer volume of children that went through Neverland, it just doesn’t fit that these two are the only victims (I absolutely discount Chandler and the 2005 case in which he was acquitted).
I also think the press - especially our tabloids - conditioned us into believing some bizarre rumours about the man which made the molestation charges more realistic.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since I read up on all this, but my opinion has long been that Evan Chandler ruined him in the long term. And I gather it’s why Chandler killed himself not long after Jackson died.
So did Jimmy Saville on the face of it.
I don’t respect that comparison.
It's exactly the same.
There’s a big question mark over whether Jackson molested or indeed hurt anybody.
Saville molested hundreds of women and children and had sex with corpses.
But the comparison was that, like Jacko, Savile "did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children" and he still turned out to be a nonce
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Why pay people off if you've got nothing to hide? Sounds good for credibility.
In the case of MJ, he was being sued by an utter scumbag in the form of Evan Chandler and iirc had to choose between cancelling his biggest ever world tour and going to court, or giving into Chandler’s extortion and paying what was, to Jackson, an insignificant amount to make the whole thing go away.
In hindsight he chose poorly (even though the LAPD admitted they didn’t believe there was any compelling evidence of wrongdoing). It eventually led to another case a decade later (in which he was acquitted) and now this.
Chandler wanted custody of his son and, more importantly, a huge pay off from Jackson. He was recorded admitting to drugging and effectively brainwashing his own boy (Jordan) to make this happen with the help of a dodgy, desperate lawyer. Jordan denied any molestation until that occurred.
I haven't seen this doc yet. I listened to the director give an interview and honestly, I thought he came across as questionable at best. He was especially evasive when it came to the question of balance.
IMHO Jackson was weird, inappropriate and a man child. But he wasn’t a child molester. Rather, he did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children. Hell, Corey Feldman has a crusade against Hollywood paedophilia going on yet he’s staunchly defended Jackson. As have the Culkin brothers and a number of others, including Jordan Chandler’s own mother. Given the sheer volume of children that went through Neverland, it just doesn’t fit that these two are the only victims (I absolutely discount Chandler and the 2005 case in which he was acquitted).
I also think the press - especially our tabloids - conditioned us into believing some bizarre rumours about the man which made the molestation charges more realistic.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since I read up on all this, but my opinion has long been that Evan Chandler ruined him in the long term. And I gather it’s why Chandler killed himself not long after Jackson died.
So did Jimmy Saville on the face of it.
I don’t respect that comparison.
It's exactly the same.
There’s a big question mark over whether Jackson molested or indeed hurt anybody.
Saville molested hundreds of women and children and had sex with corpses.
There's a question for you. I have no doubt about Jackson.
I think it’s mad to be that certain based on TV shows.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Why pay people off if you've got nothing to hide? Sounds good for credibility.
In the case of MJ, he was being sued by an utter scumbag in the form of Evan Chandler and iirc had to choose between cancelling his biggest ever world tour and going to court, or giving into Chandler’s extortion and paying what was, to Jackson, an insignificant amount to make the whole thing go away.
In hindsight he chose poorly (even though the LAPD admitted they didn’t believe there was any compelling evidence of wrongdoing). It eventually led to another case a decade later (in which he was acquitted) and now this.
Chandler wanted custody of his son and, more importantly, a huge pay off from Jackson. He was recorded admitting to drugging and effectively brainwashing his own boy (Jordan) to make this happen with the help of a dodgy, desperate lawyer. Jordan denied any molestation until that occurred.
I haven't seen this doc yet. I listened to the director give an interview and honestly, I thought he came across as questionable at best. He was especially evasive when it came to the question of balance.
IMHO Jackson was weird, inappropriate and a man child. But he wasn’t a child molester. Rather, he did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children. Hell, Corey Feldman has a crusade against Hollywood paedophilia going on yet he’s staunchly defended Jackson. As have the Culkin brothers and a number of others, including Jordan Chandler’s own mother. Given the sheer volume of children that went through Neverland, it just doesn’t fit that these two are the only victims (I absolutely discount Chandler and the 2005 case in which he was acquitted).
I also think the press - especially our tabloids - conditioned us into believing some bizarre rumours about the man which made the molestation charges more realistic.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since I read up on all this, but my opinion has long been that Evan Chandler ruined him in the long term. And I gather it’s why Chandler killed himself not long after Jackson died.
So did Jimmy Saville on the face of it.
I don’t respect that comparison.
It's exactly the same.
There’s a big question mark over whether Jackson molested or indeed hurt anybody.
Saville molested hundreds of women and children and had sex with corpses.
But the comparison was that, like Jacko, Savile "did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children" and he still turned out to be a nonce
The point I was making is that it’s potentially tragic that he didn’t hurt anyone but did a lot of good, but will be vilified for assaulting the very people he helped (although I accept I don’t know the full facts to make a certain call).
So I think it’s reductive to then compare the situation to a confirmed serial rapist.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Why pay people off if you've got nothing to hide? Sounds good for credibility.
In the case of MJ, he was being sued by an utter scumbag in the form of Evan Chandler and iirc had to choose between cancelling his biggest ever world tour and going to court, or giving into Chandler’s extortion and paying what was, to Jackson, an insignificant amount to make the whole thing go away.
In hindsight he chose poorly (even though the LAPD admitted they didn’t believe there was any compelling evidence of wrongdoing). It eventually led to another case a decade later (in which he was acquitted) and now this.
Chandler wanted custody of his son and, more importantly, a huge pay off from Jackson. He was recorded admitting to drugging and effectively brainwashing his own boy (Jordan) to make this happen with the help of a dodgy, desperate lawyer. Jordan denied any molestation until that occurred.
I haven't seen this doc yet. I listened to the director give an interview and honestly, I thought he came across as questionable at best. He was especially evasive when it came to the question of balance.
IMHO Jackson was weird, inappropriate and a man child. But he wasn’t a child molester. Rather, he did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children. Hell, Corey Feldman has a crusade against Hollywood paedophilia going on yet he’s staunchly defended Jackson. As have the Culkin brothers and a number of others, including Jordan Chandler’s own mother. Given the sheer volume of children that went through Neverland, it just doesn’t fit that these two are the only victims (I absolutely discount Chandler and the 2005 case in which he was acquitted).
I also think the press - especially our tabloids - conditioned us into believing some bizarre rumours about the man which made the molestation charges more realistic.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since I read up on all this, but my opinion has long been that Evan Chandler ruined him in the long term. And I gather it’s why Chandler killed himself not long after Jackson died.
So did Jimmy Saville on the face of it.
I don’t respect that comparison.
It's exactly the same.
There’s a big question mark over whether Jackson molested or indeed hurt anybody.
Saville molested hundreds of women and children and had sex with corpses.
There's a question for you. I have no doubt about Jackson.
I think it’s mad to be that certain based on TV shows.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Why pay people off if you've got nothing to hide? Sounds good for credibility.
In the case of MJ, he was being sued by an utter scumbag in the form of Evan Chandler and iirc had to choose between cancelling his biggest ever world tour and going to court, or giving into Chandler’s extortion and paying what was, to Jackson, an insignificant amount to make the whole thing go away.
In hindsight he chose poorly (even though the LAPD admitted they didn’t believe there was any compelling evidence of wrongdoing). It eventually led to another case a decade later (in which he was acquitted) and now this.
Chandler wanted custody of his son and, more importantly, a huge pay off from Jackson. He was recorded admitting to drugging and effectively brainwashing his own boy (Jordan) to make this happen with the help of a dodgy, desperate lawyer. Jordan denied any molestation until that occurred.
I haven't seen this doc yet. I listened to the director give an interview and honestly, I thought he came across as questionable at best. He was especially evasive when it came to the question of balance.
IMHO Jackson was weird, inappropriate and a man child. But he wasn’t a child molester. Rather, he did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children. Hell, Corey Feldman has a crusade against Hollywood paedophilia going on yet he’s staunchly defended Jackson. As have the Culkin brothers and a number of others, including Jordan Chandler’s own mother. Given the sheer volume of children that went through Neverland, it just doesn’t fit that these two are the only victims (I absolutely discount Chandler and the 2005 case in which he was acquitted).
I also think the press - especially our tabloids - conditioned us into believing some bizarre rumours about the man which made the molestation charges more realistic.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since I read up on all this, but my opinion has long been that Evan Chandler ruined him in the long term. And I gather it’s why Chandler killed himself not long after Jackson died.
So did Jimmy Saville on the face of it.
I don’t respect that comparison.
It's exactly the same.
There’s a big question mark over whether Jackson molested or indeed hurt anybody.
Saville molested hundreds of women and children and had sex with corpses.
There's a question for you. I have no doubt about Jackson.
I think it’s mad to be that certain based on TV shows.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Why pay people off if you've got nothing to hide? Sounds good for credibility.
In the case of MJ, he was being sued by an utter scumbag in the form of Evan Chandler and iirc had to choose between cancelling his biggest ever world tour and going to court, or giving into Chandler’s extortion and paying what was, to Jackson, an insignificant amount to make the whole thing go away.
In hindsight he chose poorly (even though the LAPD admitted they didn’t believe there was any compelling evidence of wrongdoing). It eventually led to another case a decade later (in which he was acquitted) and now this.
Chandler wanted custody of his son and, more importantly, a huge pay off from Jackson. He was recorded admitting to drugging and effectively brainwashing his own boy (Jordan) to make this happen with the help of a dodgy, desperate lawyer. Jordan denied any molestation until that occurred.
I haven't seen this doc yet. I listened to the director give an interview and honestly, I thought he came across as questionable at best. He was especially evasive when it came to the question of balance.
IMHO Jackson was weird, inappropriate and a man child. But he wasn’t a child molester. Rather, he did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children. Hell, Corey Feldman has a crusade against Hollywood paedophilia going on yet he’s staunchly defended Jackson. As have the Culkin brothers and a number of others, including Jordan Chandler’s own mother. Given the sheer volume of children that went through Neverland, it just doesn’t fit that these two are the only victims (I absolutely discount Chandler and the 2005 case in which he was acquitted).
I also think the press - especially our tabloids - conditioned us into believing some bizarre rumours about the man which made the molestation charges more realistic.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since I read up on all this, but my opinion has long been that Evan Chandler ruined him in the long term. And I gather it’s why Chandler killed himself not long after Jackson died.
So did Jimmy Saville on the face of it.
I don’t respect that comparison.
It's exactly the same.
There’s a big question mark over whether Jackson molested or indeed hurt anybody.
Saville molested hundreds of women and children and had sex with corpses.
But the comparison was that, like Jacko, Savile "did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children" and he still turned out to be a nonce
The point I was making is that it’s potentially tragic that he didn’t hurt anyone but did a lot of good, but will be vilified for assaulting the very people he helped (although I accept I don’t know the full facts to make a certain call).
So I think it’s reductive to then compare the situation to a confirmed serial rapist.
I personally think 7 year olds being put in a position of sharing a bed with a fully grown man enough damage. To what extent any abuse took place is obviously a huge factor but the situation itself is wrong for a kid.
I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks it's a fact on the basis of this documentary.
I used to think he definitely has a weird relationship with kids but wasn't sure if he was actually abusing them.
And now I think he definitely had a weird relationship with kids but I'm not sure if he actually abused them.
Probably did though.
It can never be a fact until proven. These two testified in 2005 that nothing ever happened, whilst in their mid to late 20's. Now, all of a sudden they 'realise' at the same time, after all these years, and having failed to sue his estate for millions, that they had been abused. I also don't believe they haven't made anything from the film, as claimed by the director.
I wonder if they were paid to stay quiet and they have waited this long as whatever they signed to stay quiet has expired
So lying in court, and covering up someone's hideous crimes against you for cash until the time has lapsed. Sounds good for credibility.
Why pay people off if you've got nothing to hide? Sounds good for credibility.
In the case of MJ, he was being sued by an utter scumbag in the form of Evan Chandler and iirc had to choose between cancelling his biggest ever world tour and going to court, or giving into Chandler’s extortion and paying what was, to Jackson, an insignificant amount to make the whole thing go away.
In hindsight he chose poorly (even though the LAPD admitted they didn’t believe there was any compelling evidence of wrongdoing). It eventually led to another case a decade later (in which he was acquitted) and now this.
Chandler wanted custody of his son and, more importantly, a huge pay off from Jackson. He was recorded admitting to drugging and effectively brainwashing his own boy (Jordan) to make this happen with the help of a dodgy, desperate lawyer. Jordan denied any molestation until that occurred.
I haven't seen this doc yet. I listened to the director give an interview and honestly, I thought he came across as questionable at best. He was especially evasive when it came to the question of balance.
IMHO Jackson was weird, inappropriate and a man child. But he wasn’t a child molester. Rather, he did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children. Hell, Corey Feldman has a crusade against Hollywood paedophilia going on yet he’s staunchly defended Jackson. As have the Culkin brothers and a number of others, including Jordan Chandler’s own mother. Given the sheer volume of children that went through Neverland, it just doesn’t fit that these two are the only victims (I absolutely discount Chandler and the 2005 case in which he was acquitted).
I also think the press - especially our tabloids - conditioned us into believing some bizarre rumours about the man which made the molestation charges more realistic.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since I read up on all this, but my opinion has long been that Evan Chandler ruined him in the long term. And I gather it’s why Chandler killed himself not long after Jackson died.
So did Jimmy Saville on the face of it.
I don’t respect that comparison.
It's exactly the same.
There’s a big question mark over whether Jackson molested or indeed hurt anybody.
Saville molested hundreds of women and children and had sex with corpses.
But the comparison was that, like Jacko, Savile "did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children" and he still turned out to be a nonce
The point I was making is that it’s potentially tragic that he didn’t hurt anyone but did a lot of good, but will be vilified for assaulting the very people he helped (although I accept I don’t know the full facts to make a certain call).
So I think it’s reductive to then compare the situation to a confirmed serial rapist.
I personally think 7 year olds being put in a position of sharing a bed with a fully grown man enough damage. To what extent any abuse took place is obviously a huge factor but the situation itself is wrong for a kid.
Whatever you think, ask yourself if you'd share your bed with little boys you've no relation to. Over and over again. That is not normal behavior.
I don’t think anybody, even his most ardent supporters, would say it was normal behaviour. But the question still remains around the sexual abuse and whether that happened or not.
My honest opinion is that I don’t think he was a paedophile, just somebody who wasn’t really living by the rules of what is normal or acceptable in the real world.
If he was sexually abusing children then I don’t think he would be going on television stating that he shared his bed with children in the blasé way that he did all those years ago. If he was guilty of it then surely he would be keeping that one very quiet, considering he had already faced accusations in years previous?
Leaving aside the actual abuse claims, I tend to think that if the person at the center of all this was an old bloke in a piss stained mac, he'd be hung out to dry, just on the basis that he liked the company of boys and had them sleep in his bed. But, because it's Jacko, he was just misunderstood and the victims are inspired by money etc.
Exactly. He admitted to having young boys in his bed, that is inappropriate behaviour for a fully grown man and was for his pleasure. If that was the bloke at the end of the road the outcry would be universal. A few songs and dance moves shouldn’t change that.
There is absolutely no doubt Jackson was a troubled man and having kids in his bed was disgusting. Personally I blame the parents almost as much too.
But that doesn’t mean sexual relations took place. There are a lot of people out there in the same position as those on the ‘documentary’ who have refuted anything like that took place.
I obviously cannot say for certain he is innocent but my gut feeling is that he was just a weird man who hung around with kids because he missed out on a childhood. He shouldn’t have been able to act the way he did but the evidence he was a paedophile is questionable at best.
Comments
In hindsight he chose poorly (even though the LAPD admitted they didn’t believe there was any compelling evidence of wrongdoing). It eventually led to another case a decade later (in which he was acquitted) and now this.
Chandler wanted custody of his son and, more importantly, a huge pay off from Jackson. He was recorded admitting to drugging and effectively brainwashing his own boy (Jordan) to make this happen with the help of a dodgy, desperate lawyer. Jordan denied any molestation until that occurred.
I haven't seen this doc yet. I listened to the director give an interview and honestly, I thought he came across as questionable at best. He was especially evasive when it came to the question of balance.
IMHO Jackson was weird, inappropriate and a man child. But he wasn’t a child molester. Rather, he did a LOT of good for sick and underprivileged children. Hell, Corey Feldman has a crusade against Hollywood paedophilia going on yet he’s staunchly defended Jackson. As have the Culkin brothers and a number of others, including Jordan Chandler’s own mother. Given the sheer volume of children that went through Neverland, it just doesn’t fit that these two are the only victims (I absolutely discount Chandler and the 2005 case in which he was acquitted).
I also think the press - especially our tabloids - conditioned us into believing some bizarre rumours about the man which made the molestation charges more realistic.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since I read up on all this, but my opinion has long been that Evan Chandler ruined him in the long term. And I gather it’s why Chandler killed himself not long after Jackson died.
Im pretty sure Jackson and his lawyers paid off a kid (or his parents) because he was able to accurately describe the underside of MJ’s penis.
I dont think there’s any doubt that he was a predator of young boys.
https://www.vox.com/2014/8/14/5999119/polygraphs-lie-detectors-do-they-work
The main problem being, the measures used to figure out if someone is lying (blood pressure/ pulse etc.) have no connection to lying.
Edit - scratch that, it was the Chandler case.
I haven't watched the program but have read about it, were the parents so star struck that they had no problem with their Children sleeping in the same bed as an adult ?
Michael Jackson showed all the signs of a paedophile, yet because he was a talented artist, it was looked upon as harmless cuddles.
So many, very rich people, buy the silence.
Such a bizarre case.
IF guilty, Michael Jackson would have gone to his grave believing he did nothing wrong because that's how paedophiles brains work.
Saville molested hundreds of women and children and had sex with corpses.
So I think it’s reductive to then compare the situation to a confirmed serial rapist.
My honest opinion is that I don’t think he was a paedophile, just somebody who wasn’t really living by the rules of what is normal or acceptable in the real world.
If he was sexually abusing children then I don’t think he would be going on television stating that he shared his bed with children in the blasé way that he did all those years ago. If he was guilty of it then surely he would be keeping that one very quiet, considering he had already faced accusations in years previous?
But that doesn’t mean sexual relations took place. There are a lot of people out there in the same position as those on the ‘documentary’ who have refuted anything like that took place.
I obviously cannot say for certain he is innocent but my gut feeling is that he was just a weird man who hung around with kids because he missed out on a childhood. He shouldn’t have been able to act the way he did but the evidence he was a paedophile is questionable at best.