Was you there by "accident" then? (a mate at work was travelling Europe and arrived in Buda for 3 days not knowing 3,000 Millwall were just about to do the same!)
A cracking trip. Have been back since and Buda is a decent city, albeit a little backward at times!
few millwall mates went and said it was an experience they'll never forget. said the police basically herded the millwall fans onto a train. They new what station to get off but the OB made them get off one stop earlier and walk to the ground. when they got off and walked down to an underpass there was loads of Hungarian fans waiting for them and the police f*cked off!
You've left the story on a bit of a knife edge there....did they get done? Did they do them? Or did everyone shake hands and swap scarves?
Come on SLL, thats a stupid question. Everyone knows Millwall done the slaaaaaags!
[cite]Posted By: addick16[/cite]this is a terrible event of holliganism and no respect in football.
Ban the Serbians from Euro 2012!
Behind closed door qualifiers for Italy (Home)
These hooligans are not even fans, these type of wreckless people use the football as a means to support a gang. They could care less about the result, the only thing these nutty hooligans care about is who gets hurt. Hooligans hide behind a football team to mask their gang activity.
They were burning the Albanian Flag... makes me sick that people still think of this type of action as acceptable.
Fifa needs to eliminate Serbia from Euro 2012
So football is used as a means to cause violence for an already existing gang?
Or did football bring individuals together behind one common theme to form a "gang"?
A mixture of both, dependent on the topic of the debate.
In this scenario it is football offering a window of opportunity, and perhaps even a protected environment, through which to air pre-existing xenophobic, nationalistic and racial hatred ideologies. Football brings people together. Football turns marginalised rabbles into an organised mass that can achieve global media penetration. Football is almost the middle man. Take pockets of disorganised like-minded people, add football, and you get the unity and exposure last night showed everyone.
NB. this analysis is about political hooliganism in an international dimension because let's face it apart from Rangers, Celtic and to a far far lesser extent Glentoran and Linfield there is absolutely nothing in the UK to match the politically-charged ultra movements elsewhere. Hooliganism here was and is still, albeit on a smaller scale, about individual town, club, or even estate or borough pride, it was/is very rarely a vehicle for socio-political expression, only in the general sense of there was nothing better to do, rough economic times etc
Seen worse, cant really see what all the fuss is about.....have we become that sanitised?
Is it because they used naughty fireworks? Looks like a lot of posturing to me....but then again, what do I know. Totally ott
[cite]Posted By: colthe3rd[/cite]I think those crtiticising the Italian officials should probably hold back until we find out exactly what went on and how they got in. I have found trying to get into games in Italy a lot harder than anywhere in this country, security checkpoints, metal detectors, ID checks. They allow nothing to be brought in (even lighters).
In a game against Atalanta a few years back, Inter Milan fans nicked a scooter off an away fan and tried to throw it off the upper tier. If you can get a scooter into a game, a few flares, balaclavas and some wire cutters should be a doddle!
.....and we can't even get a bottle of water with the top still on in to a game! LOL!
There's the answer then, send our stewards out there. That would shape them up! ; )
[cite]Posted By: PalaceHater[/cite]I did chuckle earlier when I saw the footage of the Serb players on SSN clapping their fans after they'd forced the game to be abandoned!
and their quick press statement that they were actually trying to placate them... by clapping and giving them the thumbs-up... hmm
The big fat beardy geezer who bummed his Croatian rival om a graveyard and had a song penned in his honour still makes my blood run cold. If chavlets over here ran the risk of buggery they'd probably be less inclined to pick on scarfers and kids on trains and run up to lines of OB giving it the large arms spread "cahm on".
SLL no i was not there by accident & VG is very close to being spot on. Not sure if your flipant reply is in good taste as a couple of your fellow supporters were actually stabbed as a result of that incident. Plus i knew people also in the thick of it. You'll probably say you meant the play on words but as i said, poor taste.
I tend to agree with Tel on this one. Thankfully all thats been damaged is material & reputation. Far worse has gone on.
[cite]Posted By: Telnotinoz[/cite]Seen worse, cant really see what all the fuss is about.....have we become that sanitised?
Is it because they used naughty fireworks? Looks like a lot of posturing to me....but then again, what do I know. Totally ott
Tel (and KBslittlesis)
It may not seem like it from the footage, but trust me, this is serious shit, there has never been anything like this in the UK, in terms of what they are up to and who is behind them. You can read some more here, from a journalist who generally knows his Central Europe stuff. What to do about it is more tricky, because there is a fragile government in Serbia that is trying to drag it into the 21st century. I have a Serbian mate here in Prague who is a Partizan nut. He is a regional director for a global ad agency, but he came to Prague with nothing, just to get away from the Milosevic shit in 1993. I havent heard his view on this yet, but I suspect he's going to be heartbroken and ashamed, because he's still a proud Serbian football fan. I also had a lot of Bosnian Muslims turning up in my Prague office looking for work in the mid 90s, and the stories they had to tell, should never be heard again in Europe. Sorry to be so serious, but it is serious.
[cite]Posted By: KBslittlesis[/cite]Sorry Prague. Seen & noted.
X
No need to apologise. I just happen to be closer to it than most Brits would be.
For anyone who's interested, this is what my buddy now has to say about it:
Last few days has been embaracing for Serbs and vast majority of population, across whole political spectrum is strongly against this.
Gay parade (although not supported by many people, me included) or Italy-Serbia was just an opportunity to deliver violence and destruction. I am afraid that they want to cause something more deeper.
Point is that those hooligans are result of past 20-25 years situation starting from nationalism revival in early 90's, breakdown of Yugoslavia, economic sanctions, NATO bombing and Kosovo seccession, Milosevic overthrow 10 years ago, and many other things.
Those groups were often used by politicians to make a 'dirty jobs' and problem is that even 'democratic' alliance took the power from Milosevic with their help.
There are some assumptions that at the moment they are paid and instructed by top level economy-criminals (tycoons) as goverment is aware that they need to limit their influence, starts investigations about their business and relationship etc.
Definitely not something I can describe in a few lines, probably on beer next Friday.
Untill then, continue to believe that Serbs you know are typical (with all good and bad sides) :-))
Or Hungary 1981 ----never herd of it ? no of course you havnt that would be were 400 English fans were hammered by Hungarian hoolies (thats women and kids included) 2 hours before the Army --- yes the army could get us away from the stadium.
[cite]Posted By: KBslittlesis[/cite]SLL no i was not there by accident & VG is very close to being spot on. Not sure if your flipant reply is in good taste as a couple of your fellow supporters were actually stabbed as a result of that incident. Plus i knew people also in the thick of it. You'll probably say you meant the play on words but as i said, poor taste.
Don't be so sensitive for crying out loud.
You knew people in the thick of it? What's your point?
[cite]Posted By: Telnotinoz[/cite]Seen worse, cant really see what all the fuss is about.....have we become that sanitised?
Is it because they used naughty fireworks? Looks like a lot of posturing to me....but then again, what do I know. Totally ott
Tel (and KBslittlesis)
It may not seem like it from the footage, but trust me, this is serious shit, there has never been anything like this in the UK, in terms of what they are up to and who is behind them. You can read some morehere, from a journalist who generally knows his Central Europe stuff. What to do about it is more tricky, because there is a fragile government in Serbia that is trying to drag it into the 21st century. I have a Serbian mate here in Prague who is a Partizan nut. He is a regional director for a global ad agency, but he came to Prague with nothing, just to get away from the Milosevic shit in 1993. I havent heard his view on this yet, but I suspect he's going to be heartbroken and ashamed, because he's still a proud Serbian football fan. I also had a lot of Bosnian Muslims turning up in my Prague office looking for work in the mid 90s, and the stories they had to tell, should never be heard again in Europe. Sorry to be so serious, but it is serious.
Very sinister undertones. Makes my comment look rather naive, which it is.
Mine too Tel which is why i felt the need to apologise.
There is a lesson there SLL.
I must confess that if any of my fellow supporters were stabbed at a football match, their wives sexually assaulted by the stewards on the way into the stadium and then all all treated like criminals I would not be so crude as to joke about it. As some people can be sensitive. I wouldnt necessarily class myself as such but i do like to consider others feelings.
As to my point about knowing people there. See above. Never heard them joke about it, so neither would i expect a fellow supporter to.
I think you've shown your true colours. I'm glad the Millwall fans i know have greater respect & understanding of others.
I wont be conversing with you anymore as i find you rude.
[cite]Posted By: KBslittlesis[/cite]Mine too Tel which is why i felt the need to apologise.
There is a lesson there SLL.
I must confess that if any of my fellow supporters were stabbed at a football match, their wives sexually assaulted by the stewards on the way into the stadium and then all all treated like criminals I would not be so crude as to joke about it. As some people can be sensitive. I wouldnt necessarily class myself as such but i do like to consider others feelings.
As to my point about knowing people there. See above. Never heard them joke about it, so neither would i expect a fellow supporter to.
I think you've shown your true colours. I'm glad the Millwall fans i know have greater respect & understanding of others.
I wont be conversing with you anymore as i find you rude.
I obviously missed this joke I've made?
Gary - I've also obviously missed where I've spoken aggressively to KB?
I was in Buda. I've got the tales to tell of what happened and narrowly avoided being opened up twice myself, my mate was legged across a motorway by Fradi carrying blades. I was there, I know a lot who got treated badly, I was too, still a brilliant 3 days though. I must say I've not met any Millwall fan who has taken such offence to a comment "on a knife edge" that wasn't even intended as a joke or pun.
You've taken it that way for whatever reason and you've taken mock offence to it as well. Fair enough!
Good on you Tel and KB. Just last year, we met a woman near Dubrovnik whose life and family had been totally shattered by the war. I was shocked to learn that homes were still being attacked quite recently. In my head, the wars were all over, but not so. I did some reading as a consequence and PragueAddicks comments were very timely. It's a great shame that SLL hasn't realised that ignorance is not a good position from which to attempt a defence.
Thanks for the info/link Prague. Shows up some of the comments on the subject (and I'm not having a pop at people on here, more the "experts" on talkspurt/sky/beeb) as a bit silly. There's never been anything like this here. A lot of the gents involved are military trained and have a bit of genocide experience. A different kettle of fish to silly boys that have had a couple of beers too many and got themselves whipped up reading about dambusters in the currant bun.
There's overtones of terrorism and even the rise of the third reich in the activities of the serb groups. People might say that sounds far fetched, but Hitler harnessed the passions of football fans when building support, recognising that a disaffected population that had been drifting after defeat in a war and stripped of strong/strict leadership, were ripe for control by a dictator who promised to make people respect/fear them. Post Tito the country's fragmented and been at war for a years, now it's getting very sinister. Should make the match in Norn Iron interesting, they surely have a bit in common.
[cite]Posted By: stilladdicted[/cite]Good on you Tel and KB. Just last year, we met a woman near Dubrovnik whose life and family had been totally shattered by the war. I was shocked to learn that homes were still being attacked quite recently. In my head, the wars were all over, but not so. I did some reading as a consequence and PragueAddicks comments were very timely. It's a great shame that SLL hasn't realised that ignorance is not a good position from which to attempt a defence.
Here is a clip to show the Italian police were not quite as subdued as first thought.
6.20mins long, skip head to about 5.30 to see why you should not cause trouble in Italy
Comments
Come on SLL, thats a stupid question. Everyone knows Millwall done the slaaaaaags!
A mixture of both, dependent on the topic of the debate.
In this scenario it is football offering a window of opportunity, and perhaps even a protected environment, through which to air pre-existing xenophobic, nationalistic and racial hatred ideologies. Football brings people together. Football turns marginalised rabbles into an organised mass that can achieve global media penetration. Football is almost the middle man. Take pockets of disorganised like-minded people, add football, and you get the unity and exposure last night showed everyone.
NB. this analysis is about political hooliganism in an international dimension because let's face it apart from Rangers, Celtic and to a far far lesser extent Glentoran and Linfield there is absolutely nothing in the UK to match the politically-charged ultra movements elsewhere. Hooliganism here was and is still, albeit on a smaller scale, about individual town, club, or even estate or borough pride, it was/is very rarely a vehicle for socio-political expression, only in the general sense of there was nothing better to do, rough economic times etc
Is it because they used naughty fireworks? Looks like a lot of posturing to me....but then again, what do I know. Totally ott
There's the answer then, send our stewards out there. That would shape them up! ; )
and their quick press statement that they were actually trying to placate them... by clapping and giving them the thumbs-up... hmm
I tend to agree with Tel on this one. Thankfully all thats been damaged is material & reputation. Far worse has gone on.
Tel (and KBslittlesis)
It may not seem like it from the footage, but trust me, this is serious shit, there has never been anything like this in the UK, in terms of what they are up to and who is behind them. You can read some more here, from a journalist who generally knows his Central Europe stuff. What to do about it is more tricky, because there is a fragile government in Serbia that is trying to drag it into the 21st century. I have a Serbian mate here in Prague who is a Partizan nut. He is a regional director for a global ad agency, but he came to Prague with nothing, just to get away from the Milosevic shit in 1993. I havent heard his view on this yet, but I suspect he's going to be heartbroken and ashamed, because he's still a proud Serbian football fan. I also had a lot of Bosnian Muslims turning up in my Prague office looking for work in the mid 90s, and the stories they had to tell, should never be heard again in Europe. Sorry to be so serious, but it is serious.
X
Friendly chap
No need to apologise. I just happen to be closer to it than most Brits would be.
For anyone who's interested, this is what my buddy now has to say about it:
Last few days has been embaracing for Serbs and vast majority of population, across whole political spectrum is strongly against this.
Gay parade (although not supported by many people, me included) or Italy-Serbia was just an opportunity to deliver violence and destruction. I am afraid that they want to cause something more deeper.
Point is that those hooligans are result of past 20-25 years situation starting from nationalism revival in early 90's, breakdown of Yugoslavia, economic sanctions, NATO bombing and Kosovo seccession, Milosevic overthrow 10 years ago, and many other things.
Those groups were often used by politicians to make a 'dirty jobs' and problem is that even 'democratic' alliance took the power from Milosevic with their help.
There are some assumptions that at the moment they are paid and instructed by top level economy-criminals (tycoons) as goverment is aware that they need to limit their influence, starts investigations about their business and relationship etc.
Definitely not something I can describe in a few lines, probably on beer next Friday.
Untill then, continue to believe that Serbs you know are typical (with all good and bad sides) :-))
Think those "if that had been England, we'd be banned forever" complaints misguided. Witness Dublin 95, Marseille 98, Charleroi 2000...
Fair point imo
Don't be so sensitive for crying out loud.
You knew people in the thick of it? What's your point?
Very sinister undertones. Makes my comment look rather naive, which it is.
There is a lesson there SLL.
I must confess that if any of my fellow supporters were stabbed at a football match, their wives sexually assaulted by the stewards on the way into the stadium and then all all treated like criminals I would not be so crude as to joke about it. As some people can be sensitive. I wouldnt necessarily class myself as such but i do like to consider others feelings.
As to my point about knowing people there. See above. Never heard them joke about it, so neither would i expect a fellow supporter to.
I think you've shown your true colours. I'm glad the Millwall fans i know have greater respect & understanding of others.
I wont be conversing with you anymore as i find you rude.
I obviously missed this joke I've made?
Gary - I've also obviously missed where I've spoken aggressively to KB?
I was in Buda. I've got the tales to tell of what happened and narrowly avoided being opened up twice myself, my mate was legged across a motorway by Fradi carrying blades. I was there, I know a lot who got treated badly, I was too, still a brilliant 3 days though. I must say I've not met any Millwall fan who has taken such offence to a comment "on a knife edge" that wasn't even intended as a joke or pun.
You've taken it that way for whatever reason and you've taken mock offence to it as well. Fair enough!
There's overtones of terrorism and even the rise of the third reich in the activities of the serb groups. People might say that sounds far fetched, but Hitler harnessed the passions of football fans when building support, recognising that a disaffected population that had been drifting after defeat in a war and stripped of strong/strict leadership, were ripe for control by a dictator who promised to make people respect/fear them. Post Tito the country's fragmented and been at war for a years, now it's getting very sinister. Should make the match in Norn Iron interesting, they surely have a bit in common.
A defence of what?
6.20mins long, skip head to about 5.30 to see why you should not cause trouble in Italy