Battipendi, Baz, Brezovan, Lua Lua & Sandaza didn't even start in the team that just demolished us 4-0.
I would suspect the combined wages of the actual eleven that started for them against us on Saturday, is not that far from the sum of our starting eleven.
Anyway if you are going to be a tool about it, I won't even bother to dignify you with a further response.
Quite sad really Colin as I had always thought you to be a decent poster on here.
It's called logical debate. I ain't the one bringing it down to playground slurs. Poyet's used nearly all the players he's signed this season.
What manager makes every signing a success? If you get a new manager in who wants to play only one way, against the way that our current players are capable of, how many new players do you want us to sign? Or indeed how many players do you think we'll need to sign so we can play like Sousa successfully did at Swansea?
Sorry if you feel that way, but it's a completely nonsensical suggestion. I know you weren't saying this, but when fans suggest something that is strategically impossible to enact, and then criticise Murray for his choices....... I'm in the Parky camp, and wish others would consider their suggestions a little more and give Parky that time. Any change atm is madness.
If Murray wishes to burn a little cash then wait and see til December. Then I'd always go for a Pearson, or Adkins; I know we can't afford either so I'm loathe to pick the usual crap. And both those I mention would recquire backing, but the present squad would mainly be suited to their style of play. If we get a Micky Adams or Sousa then I'll doubt I'll go again all season; unless I'm proved wrong which I'd happy to be but see little chance of.
Actualy reading the guff above from Colin I have to make a few comments!!
Brezovan - released by Swindon, out of the game for 6 months before Poyet gave him a trial & signed him
Calderon - released by Alaves, out of the game for 6 months before Poyet gave him a trial & signed him
Sandaza - Injured for most of 2009/2010, offered to Swansea on trial, eventually released by Dundee - signed by Poyet
Barnes - going nowehere at plymouth, loaned out to Eastbourne, Dorchester & Torquay eventually released
Painter - long term cruciate injury victim, didnt get back in the Swansea team - released
Lua-Lua - 19 year old yout hplayer at Newcastle, who are of course rolling in cash & playing kids top wages - would be no more expensive than say Kyel Reid was last season
The Argentinian players came from a 3rd Division team in Argentina, hardly Boca Juniors
I could go on, the point is we have spent money wage wise on very experienced, established players with many hundreds of League appearances between them -Dailly, McCormack, Doherty, Abbott, Benson, Reid, Fortune, Jackson, Francis. We even have our own Premiership player on loan.
If you think these players are playing for nothing or less than the above assortment of rejects, injury victims, obscure imports & old-Bulgarians- well I give up.
Difference is Poyet has his team playing together & well, Parky does not - yet - I hope for his sake he does soon.
Mate of mine is a season ticket holder at qpr and said it was the best football played ther for some time. Was absolutely gutted to see him go and believed it was totally the wrong decision.
Apart from Abbott and Benson, nearly all Charlton players you mentioned have either been stated to have or hinted at signed on reduced terms.
As you can't hold one single logical thought I'll spell it out to you. Caledron was signed when out of contract; still gonna be an agent fee for him. His contract then ended at Brighton, Southampton are on record to have offered a contract to him. He considered and Brighton withdrew the contract, but then went back on themselves and made a new offer. Seen as Soton pay the biggest wages in the division, I'd summise a much more balanced view that he's on very decent money.
Clearly Oaky, you either live in a financial fantasy world or are very naive. If you think that signing players on cheaper wages, than they had before and cheaper than those we sold is something we can afford to do again...... Why don't you toddle off to Champ manager, and assemble your fanatasy MacGuffin team?
[cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]Apart from Abbott and Benson, nearly all Charlton players you mentioned have either been stated to have or hinted at signed on reduced terms.
As you can't hold one single logical thought I'll spell it out to you. Caledron was signed when out of contract; still gonna be an agent fee for him. His contract then ended at Brighton, Southampton are on record to have offered a contract to him. He considered and Brighton withdrew the contract, but then went back on themselves and made a new offer. Seen as Soton pay the biggest wages in the division, I'd summise a much more balanced view that he's on very decent money.
Clearly Oaky, you either live in a financial fantasy world or are very naive. If you think that signing players on cheaper wages, than they had before and cheaper than those we sold is something we can afford to do again...... Why don't you toddle off to Champ manager, and assemble your fanatasy MacGuffin team?
Poyet had the contacts & vision to bring Calderon into the club, 6 months after he was released by Alaves (so what about the agent fee? do we not pay them also for our free signings). I wish Parky was similarly connected & visionary. Calderon may indeed have earned himself a new contract at a better salary - but that is because Brighton are clearly going places & their board are confident in that gamble. Incidentally we had a player 10x better than Calderon last year, JonJo Shelvey - he was't utilised nearly enough by Parky.
I have unequivocally clearly pointed out the canny way in which Poyet has assembled the bulk of his squad from next to nothing. 8 key players outlined above that came from nowhere, with probably combined FL appearances of little more than a couple of hundred games between them & signed on the cheap no doubt.
It is quite clearly ColinTat 0 Oakster 4 (Four) :-)
Can't find the link, but we were linked with Calderon before we even signed Richardson. I wouldn't assume its down to Poyet's contacts, more agents trying to attach interest.
Parky went for the fairly experienced but still young English right back in Richardson over the foreigner who had never played over here. Sensible decision and there's probably not a great deal between them. Southampton went for both of them after all, just Calderon was on a free and Richardson wasn't.
Nice to have foreign contacts, but that's what you get with foreign managers. Curbs wouldn't have had many and he did a good job.
Know what you're saying, just wanted to point out Calderon might have been down to his agents work and not Poyet's vision and contacts.
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]Can't find the link, but we were linked with Calderon before we even signed Richardson. I wouldn't assume its down to Poyet's contacts, more agents trying to attach interest.
Parky went for the fairly experienced but still young English right back in Richardson over the foreigner who had never played over here. Sensible decision and there's probably not a great deal between them. Southampton went for both of them after all, just Calderon was on a free and Richardson wasn't.
Nice to have foreign contacts, but that's what you get with foreign managers. Curbs wouldn't have had many and he did a good job.
Know what you're saying, just wanted to point out Calderon might have been down to his agents work and not Poyet's vision and contacts.
Calderon was briefly captain at Alaves as they bumped along at the bottom of the 2nd Division in Spain & were eventually relegated. He was released after they were relegated to the 3rd Division.
The point Colin was attempting to make was that Poyet had splashed out big wages on the captain of Alaves - as if it was some sort of expensive procurement.
My counter point was that he signed on a free, an unemployed relative failure of a player - who had been without a club for the best part of 6 months.
In hindsight a very good signing. In no way is it a criticism of Parky - I wouldnt argue that signing Richardson was a poor decision, totally the opposite.
However if you are getting into a petty pedantic argument about wages & costs, I would say at the time we spent more on Richardson than they did on Calderon - thats all.
On a separate point - our aquisition of foreign players from abroad over the years has by & large been poor. Curbs only seemed to sign foreign players who had played in the English/Scottish leagues before - Jensen, Fish, JJ, Svensson, Smertin, Cobian(!) etc etc etc
How many players have we signed directly from foreign clubs that have been a success? Simonsen (briefly), Bartlett.....
of the eleven who started for both sides last Saturday I doubt there was very much difference at all in total wages paid but I'd reckon ours was slightly higher.
Scoring your own matches Oakster? That's reasoned, and backed up by ill-thought out logic, must be true. Yep go and get Sousa! Cos he'll have our squad playing like a dream.
Hmmmm so you think signing on a free, categorically means his wages are cheap. Then you state his contract was less than Richardson. Now I have no idea on that, I merely stated on the facts that Brighton were willing to offer as close as they could get to Soton's contract and Calderon signed. Now as Soton are the biggest payers in the div and they subsequently signed Richardson when they failed with Calderon, according to your logic that must mean their second choice player is on less than Calderon. Your simply idiotic leap of faith syllogism, has no sense whatsoever. I was talking about the wages Calderon is now on, not the historic contract we gave to Richardson. Dear, dear. Calderon is going to be on similar wages if not more than the higher paid players we signed this summer; Docherty, Reid and Jackson for instance who all took paycuts from their last contract, and are quite possibly on less than Richardson now.
The average wage for a league one footballer was around 70,000 in 2006. BH&A paid their average employee around 45,000 in 2007/2008; and that includes all back room staff, at a staff of 85, so just cogitate on what the playing staff mean would be. Adams, Slade and Poyet have been allowed to sign significant ammounts of players. I'd be quite surprised that the mean for these players' individual wage was less than 70,000.
I'm sure our squads wages overall are quite similar, whilst our turnover is higher. Consistently Bloom has pumped money into his club, paid off a manager and raised money somehow to fund new acquisitions.
So back to the original point. You think Sousa's a good idea. Do you think he could get our squad playing effective European passing football? If it's a Yes, then that fits with your fantasy logic. If it's a No, then you expect Murray to dip in his back pocket and:
Pay off Parky, and his backroom staff. Get Sousa in and his backroom staff. Try and get rid of a fair few players, costing the club in payoffs or wasted wages. Sign a multitude of new players: Personally it'd take at least ten for three or four to work. At Leicester four of his six summer signings were 'foreign' players as you put it. At Swansea he signed 3 out of 7 non-UK players, whilst there being many there previously from Martinez.
However you look at it Oakster that would be money in the millions to effect your fantasy change; let alone counting the money Murray'd need to replace Sousa in one year with your MO. Not only this but one of your main points is how many foreign players fail at Charlton, yet you want to get a manager in who loves to sign quite a few foreign based players when let loose and allowed to think on who he wants! Do I need to draw a diagram between your false logic and the result of getting Sousa in?
[cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]You think Sousa's a good idea.
When Parky eventually goes, if he is still available, I would say he is an interesting option & if he is interested in the job I would hope we interview him. That is all I can ask for.
You don't know, I don't know what is really going on.
It's called a debate Colin. Calm down you'll give yourself a friggin' coronary man!!
They spent $250k on Greer. So did we on Benson.
Calderon was a free agent & had left Alaves when Brighton signed him.
Most of the rest came in on frees from reserve team squads at Championship or Lower League level.
Ankergren - one of your two well know Leauge One players - Leeds reserve El-Abd - been with them since 2003 Painter - cruciate victim at Swasea, hadnt played for them in 3 months before Poyet took a gamble bringing him in on loan Calderon - released by Alaves, without a club for 6 months - inspired signing no doubt contacts within the game Greer - £250k - our Benson - or even our Docherty who was outstanding with Norwich last season, but seems to be struggling this time round. Dicker -free transfer from L2 Stockport Bennett - free transfer from Wolves where he never played a league game Kishishev - free from Liteks Lovech - great signing Sparrow - came from Scunthorpe - no arguments that he will be on a good salary Murray - cost £300k back in Jan 2008, has developed well under Poyet Barnes - plucked from Plymouth reserves after a spell on loan at Torquay
Cannot agree at all with your comments.
Yes Sparrow & Ankgeren came in on free at good wages. Yes they matched our spend on Benson with Greer.
The rest were all either already there or were languisihing in obscurity.
For some reason i couldn't use the quote function so just copied instead. I would just like to pick up on some points here if i may.
Bennett actually cost 200k, a fans favorite who is easily worth 750k.A real gem of a player. We had Painter onloan last season and he was fantastic for us and i'm very suprised we picked him up on a free in the summer.We have been screaming out for a solid leftback for years.Don't forget he played every game for Swansea in there promotion season from this league. Noone new anything about Calderon and he was a gamble i agree.I see he isn't rated that highly on here but believe me this player is pure class.There is no better right back in this league i can assure you.He loves to get forward aswell and another fans favorite. Greer vs Benson? Sorry no contest here.Greer was by far the best center half in this league last year and Poyet spent all summer trying to sign him from Swindon.That was his first 90 mins on saturday and there's alot more to come from him.Soild inthe air and very vocal.He is superb with the ball at his feet and is left footed which is an added bonus.Poyet made him captain when he signed him.
Some people on here are going overboard with our playing budget.We are not even in the top 6 in this league and we haven't spent anywhere near what Huddersfield or Saints have. We have also brought some rubbish which we have either sold off like Dickinson or sent out onloan(2 players) but to be fair they are not Poyet's signings though. If you look at the players we have signed,most have won promotion with there old clubs which will really adds to our armoury ie Painter-Swans-Sparrow-Scunny-Greer-Donny-Casper- Leeds etc etc
I can honestly say you won't find a better defense in this league or a better manager then Poyet himself,the man is a tactical genius and has excellent coaching skills.He isn't affraid to drop any player in our team as was proved on saturday when Elphick who has played every game so far made way for Greer. Don't forget Poyet lost his first five games in charge of us before we finished the season as the inform team.He then cleared out the rubbish and has added some real bargins some free to the squad.Our form form from last season has continued where it has left off. I will be very suprised if we don't up this season.We have a fantastic rich chairman and a new stadium ready for next season so the futures bright.If there is any weak link to our team then it's upfront and no real cover for our fullbacks so we need some luck with injuires. I've been supporting the Albion for over 25 years now and i haven't seen a better squad or manager.I hope you can understand why i feel confident this season. One thing i would also like to mention is that Poyet has just signed a new 4 year deal and his trust assistant so the compensation money would be extreamly high ie 1 million plus.Besides Poyet has said he isn't going anywhere unless it's Chelsea or Real Madrid.That was his own words.I'm confident we will have him for at least 3 years.
Interesting post and agree with a lot of what you say BHA, and you're very lucky to have gotten someone like Poyet. However I'd say you're dreaming if you take the statement about "only Chelsea or Real" attracting him away. He'll know nobody managing in League One (or even the CCC if all goes well for you) will ever get a sniff of a job like that. If a big-ish CCC or Prem (or Ligua) job came up, he'd go. You need to be realistic
Well my friend i will have to disagree with you.I very doubt any CCC could tempt Poyet away.We have a 22'500 stadium ready for next year and if we go up we will average around 18,000 if not a complete sellout. All 13 boxes have been sold off and 2000 posh seats have gone already.This is even before the normal season tickets go on sale.With an average of 18,000 if not higher not many clubs in the ccc will be bigger then us. You will just have to trust me that the club are aiming to sell all season tickets.Don't forget i've stood at the Goldstone ground with 25k crowds. Why would Poyet bother with prem teams like Wigan/Bolton etc? All he will do is struggle with those sort of clubs. Our chairman will back Poyet well and for the reason it will take a big club to get him.
[cite]Posted By: steveBHA[/cite]Well my friend i will have to disagree with you.I very doubt any CCC could tempt Poyet away.We have a 22'500 stadium ready for next year and if we go up we will average around 18,000 if not a complete sellout.
All 13 boxes have been sold off and 2000 posh seats have gone already.This is even before the normal season tickets go on sale.With an average of 18,000 if not higher not many clubs in the ccc will be bigger then us.
You will just have to trust me that the club are aiming to sell all season tickets.Don't forget i've stood at the Goldstone ground with 25k crowds.
Why would Poyet bother with prem teams like Wigan/Bolton etc? All he will do is struggle with those sort of clubs.
Our chairman will back Poyet well and for the reason it will take a big club to get him.
There are countless examples over the years of the lure of the Premiership. Those ticket sales may be impressive, but will Poyet really care about that?
I must say that I dont begrudge Brighton their success. I am sure it will be success, because they seem to be going about it the right way,on and off the pitch, and like us their fans fought hard to safeguard the future of their club. If Poyet can get them into the PL, then I can imagine he will stay a long time, as Curbs did. It's galling to learn that Poyet applied for a job with us.
BHA I do hope Poyet stays to do the job this time. Whilst I understand his Spurs sojourn, he really needs to put a proper body of work together under his name. I like Greer nasty b'stard that he is, you absolutely have to have them in the lower leagues especially through the middle and we just haven't for many seasons. I've heard good things about Elliott Bennett, to play over a hundred league games at 21 is no mean feat. From when I've seen Calderon he's been absolutely excellent, would love to have him at Charlton.
Should be a good year to go into the champ next season, it's still full of better coached but utter dross. Do you thin Glen Murray will make it? I have my doubts about him in the champ. Surely Bloom will splash the cash, and if he does you can't go much wrong on Danny Graham. He's the best forward I've seen in the champ, went off the boil last year like the rest of the Watford team but even even when he's not scoring he just looks like and does take the piss out of any defender with his intelligent physicality. It'd be great to see Brighton in the prem instead of Brum, Hulls and Wolves of this world.
Ha ha Colin i like your description of Greer and your right in your assessment.I feel all good promotion chasing sides needs an animal/beast in there side to fire up there team and not to be bullied by opposing teams.
As for Murray he splits fans opinions and i'm in the camp where we could do better but he is all that we have at the moment.It's a shame he doesn't score more goals because he has got a good footballing brain.I personally don't think he would cut it a division higher.I know Gus is desperate to sign another striker even on loan but he is finding it hard to get the right man. I've never known an Albion side with so many different nationalities within the squad.This is all down to Gus and his continental approach.We have a fantastic blend and some great foreign players.It really is exciting times ahead for us.
As for a striker for the division above i would love to sign Charlie Ausin of Swindon.He has bags of potential but may command a high fee.I wouldn't be suprised to see Poyet go overseas again as players tend to be cheaper. Without doubt our best find is Calderon.I'm so pleased he did a u-turn and didn't join the Saints.You simply cannot replace players like that for free. Even the players we had here before Gus arrived looked very average ie El-Abd and all of a sudden they look amazing.It's all down to Poyet and his coaching skills.
[cite]Posted By: steveBHA[/cite] Even the players we had here before Gus arrived looked very average ie El-Abd and all of a sudden they look amazing.It's all down to Poyet and his coaching skills.
Which brings us neatly back to my original point about Sousa, he has played under the very best coaches in Europe at the highest level. I am not necessarily advocating him as Park's replacement, but as the type of manager we shoudl be looking at to take the club forward.
I loved the quote from Richie Wellens at Leicester complaining about training under Sousa..."I found it difficult playing 11-a-side games which are shape orientated. We didn't really get a sweat on in training"
We are perhaps in need of a coach who can get the best out of the journeymen, my point never really was about wages or transfer spending - more about progressive coaching & coaxing the best out of the individuals that Parky, has to his credit, assembled skillfully.
Talking of Brighton managers Steve - does Chris Cattlin still have his Rock Shop on the seafront? I lived in Brighton in the late 70s/early 80s, went to school with Ian Chapman & was coached at school by Brian Horton, Neil McNab & Andy Ritchie!
[cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]
Hmmmm so you think signing on a free, categorically means his wages are cheap. Then you state his contract was less than Richardson. Now I have no idea on that, I merely stated on the facts that Brighton were willing to offer as close as they could get to Soton's contract and Calderon signed. Now as Soton are the biggest payers in the div and they subsequently signed Richardson when they failed with Calderon, according to your logic that must mean their second choice player is on less than Calderon. Your simply idiotic leap of faith syllogism, has no sense whatsoever. I was talking about the wages Calderon is now on, not the historic contract we gave to Richardson. Dear, dear. Calderon is going to be on similar wages if not more than the higher paid players we signed this summer; Docherty, Reid and Jackson for instance who all took paycuts from their last contract, and are quite possibly on less than Richardson now.
Just back after a long day, trying to understand what you are saying here Colin.
(1). I can only & i think fairly assume that when he arrived at Brighton in Jan 2010 on a short-term deal until the end of the season he was on a relatively inexpensive wage wise as opposed to Fraser Richardson who was well known within the English game & was signed on a 2 year deal
(2). Nowhere in any post at any time have I disputed that he is now on a lucrative new contract.
Before you throw around cheap insults, at least check the premise of your own arguments. You are a clever man no doubt, just try to be a little more humble please.
My simple point, to restate it is that it was a bloody good signing in the first place by Poyet.
Finally I apologise if by making assumptions here & speculating offends you so greatly. If we were to limit input on this board to those who can post without resorting to either, we would have to hope that Murray & Parky sign up here pretty soon.
Chris Cattlin doesn't have his rock shop no more.It's been gone for quite some years i believe.Those were the days.Now it's all about Norman Cook aka Fatboy Slim which i cannot stand his music but i certainly admire the bloke.A couple of years back he gave the Albion 250k to help out with there money troubles for nothing,
If we ever lost Poyet then Sousa is the type of manager i would want myself or another untried young manager.We have certainly been through alot of managers ourselves and i wouldn't want to go down the dinosaur route of Micky Adams types of again.
[cite]Posted By: steveBHA[/cite]Chris Cattlin doesn't have his rock shop no more.It's been gone for quite some years i believe.Those were the days.Now it's all about Norman Cook aka Fatboy Slim which i cannot stand his music but i certainly admire the bloke.A couple of years back he gave the Albion 250k to help out with there money troubles for nothing,
If we ever lost Poyet then Sousa is the type of manager i would want myself or another untried young manager.We have certainly been through alot of managers ourselves and i wouldn't want to go down the dinosaur route of Micky Adams types of again.
I was only in Brighton a relatively short time, but I still have a lot of affection for the club (apart from when you are trouncing us!). Was at the Goldstone for the 7-0 & the 3-5. Still remember Cattlin bringing in some inspired signings during his tenure - Dean Saunders, Martin Keown (on loan), Danny Wilson. Kind of lost touch with the club once i moved and no longer had easy access to John Vinnicombe (is he still around?) - although I followed Ian Chapman's progress from afar.
I am delighted to see Brighton doing well after so many years of doing it tough, its great to see.
Just one thing, I think that SteveBHA is perhaps slightly rose-tinted if he thinks that Poyet would not swap League One for the Premiership or a well-placed CCC club if the opportunity arose.
With the best will in the world, and I have a soft spot for Brighton, they are never going to do more than a Charlton/Wigan in the Premiership (and even that is a LONG way off) so if Poyet gets an offer from a Premiership side then he will be off.
As for the compensation, 1 million quid is what most Premiership sides pay their reserve left-back!
Comments
I would suspect the combined wages of the actual eleven that started for them against us on Saturday, is not that far from the sum of our starting eleven.
Anyway if you are going to be a tool about it, I won't even bother to dignify you with a further response.
Quite sad really Colin as I had always thought you to be a decent poster on here.
What manager makes every signing a success? If you get a new manager in who wants to play only one way, against the way that our current players are capable of, how many new players do you want us to sign? Or indeed how many players do you think we'll need to sign so we can play like Sousa successfully did at Swansea?
Sorry if you feel that way, but it's a completely nonsensical suggestion. I know you weren't saying this, but when fans suggest something that is strategically impossible to enact, and then criticise Murray for his choices....... I'm in the Parky camp, and wish others would consider their suggestions a little more and give Parky that time. Any change atm is madness.
If Murray wishes to burn a little cash then wait and see til December. Then I'd always go for a Pearson, or Adkins; I know we can't afford either so I'm loathe to pick the usual crap. And both those I mention would recquire backing, but the present squad would mainly be suited to their style of play. If we get a Micky Adams or Sousa then I'll doubt I'll go again all season; unless I'm proved wrong which I'd happy to be but see little chance of.
Brezovan - released by Swindon, out of the game for 6 months before Poyet gave him a trial & signed him
Calderon - released by Alaves, out of the game for 6 months before Poyet gave him a trial & signed him
Sandaza - Injured for most of 2009/2010, offered to Swansea on trial, eventually released by Dundee - signed by Poyet
Barnes - going nowehere at plymouth, loaned out to Eastbourne, Dorchester & Torquay eventually released
Painter - long term cruciate injury victim, didnt get back in the Swansea team - released
Lua-Lua - 19 year old yout hplayer at Newcastle, who are of course rolling in cash & playing kids top wages - would be no more expensive than say Kyel Reid was last season
The Argentinian players came from a 3rd Division team in Argentina, hardly Boca Juniors
I could go on, the point is we have spent money wage wise on very experienced, established players with many hundreds of League appearances between them -Dailly, McCormack, Doherty, Abbott, Benson, Reid, Fortune, Jackson, Francis. We even have our own Premiership player on loan.
If you think these players are playing for nothing or less than the above assortment of rejects, injury victims, obscure imports & old-Bulgarians- well I give up.
Difference is Poyet has his team playing together & well, Parky does not - yet - I hope for his sake he does soon.
As you can't hold one single logical thought I'll spell it out to you. Caledron was signed when out of contract; still gonna be an agent fee for him. His contract then ended at Brighton, Southampton are on record to have offered a contract to him. He considered and Brighton withdrew the contract, but then went back on themselves and made a new offer. Seen as Soton pay the biggest wages in the division, I'd summise a much more balanced view that he's on very decent money.
Clearly Oaky, you either live in a financial fantasy world or are very naive. If you think that signing players on cheaper wages, than they had before and cheaper than those we sold is something we can afford to do again...... Why don't you toddle off to Champ manager, and assemble your fanatasy MacGuffin team?
Poyet had the contacts & vision to bring Calderon into the club, 6 months after he was released by Alaves (so what about the agent fee? do we not pay them also for our free signings). I wish Parky was similarly connected & visionary. Calderon may indeed have earned himself a new contract at a better salary - but that is because Brighton are clearly going places & their board are confident in that gamble. Incidentally we had a player 10x better than Calderon last year, JonJo Shelvey - he was't utilised nearly enough by Parky.
I have unequivocally clearly pointed out the canny way in which Poyet has assembled the bulk of his squad from next to nothing. 8 key players outlined above that came from nowhere, with probably combined FL appearances of little more than a couple of hundred games between them & signed on the cheap no doubt.
It is quite clearly ColinTat 0 Oakster 4 (Four) :-)
Parky went for the fairly experienced but still young English right back in Richardson over the foreigner who had never played over here. Sensible decision and there's probably not a great deal between them. Southampton went for both of them after all, just Calderon was on a free and Richardson wasn't.
Nice to have foreign contacts, but that's what you get with foreign managers. Curbs wouldn't have had many and he did a good job.
Know what you're saying, just wanted to point out Calderon might have been down to his agents work and not Poyet's vision and contacts.
Calderon was briefly captain at Alaves as they bumped along at the bottom of the 2nd Division in Spain & were eventually relegated. He was released after they were relegated to the 3rd Division.
The point Colin was attempting to make was that Poyet had splashed out big wages on the captain of Alaves - as if it was some sort of expensive procurement.
My counter point was that he signed on a free, an unemployed relative failure of a player - who had been without a club for the best part of 6 months.
In hindsight a very good signing. In no way is it a criticism of Parky - I wouldnt argue that signing Richardson was a poor decision, totally the opposite.
However if you are getting into a petty pedantic argument about wages & costs, I would say at the time we spent more on Richardson than they did on Calderon - thats all.
On a separate point - our aquisition of foreign players from abroad over the years has by & large been poor. Curbs only seemed to sign foreign players who had played in the English/Scottish leagues before - Jensen, Fish, JJ, Svensson, Smertin, Cobian(!) etc etc etc
How many players have we signed directly from foreign clubs that have been a success? Simonsen (briefly), Bartlett.....
;-)
DTguardian
Paulo Sousa watching manager-less Mboro from the guest seats at #NFFC tonight
Hmmmm so you think signing on a free, categorically means his wages are cheap. Then you state his contract was less than Richardson. Now I have no idea on that, I merely stated on the facts that Brighton were willing to offer as close as they could get to Soton's contract and Calderon signed. Now as Soton are the biggest payers in the div and they subsequently signed Richardson when they failed with Calderon, according to your logic that must mean their second choice player is on less than Calderon. Your simply idiotic leap of faith syllogism, has no sense whatsoever. I was talking about the wages Calderon is now on, not the historic contract we gave to Richardson. Dear, dear. Calderon is going to be on similar wages if not more than the higher paid players we signed this summer; Docherty, Reid and Jackson for instance who all took paycuts from their last contract, and are quite possibly on less than Richardson now.
The average wage for a league one footballer was around 70,000 in 2006. BH&A paid their average employee around 45,000 in 2007/2008; and that includes all back room staff, at a staff of 85, so just cogitate on what the playing staff mean would be. Adams, Slade and Poyet have been allowed to sign significant ammounts of players. I'd be quite surprised that the mean for these players' individual wage was less than 70,000.
I'm sure our squads wages overall are quite similar, whilst our turnover is higher. Consistently Bloom has pumped money into his club, paid off a manager and raised money somehow to fund new acquisitions.
So back to the original point. You think Sousa's a good idea. Do you think he could get our squad playing effective European passing football? If it's a Yes, then that fits with your fantasy logic. If it's a No, then you expect Murray to dip in his back pocket and:
Pay off Parky, and his backroom staff.
Get Sousa in and his backroom staff.
Try and get rid of a fair few players, costing the club in payoffs or wasted wages.
Sign a multitude of new players: Personally it'd take at least ten for three or four to work. At Leicester four of his six summer signings were 'foreign' players as you put it. At Swansea he signed 3 out of 7 non-UK players, whilst there being many there previously from Martinez.
However you look at it Oakster that would be money in the millions to effect your fantasy change; let alone counting the money Murray'd need to replace Sousa in one year with your MO. Not only this but one of your main points is how many foreign players fail at Charlton, yet you want to get a manager in who loves to sign quite a few foreign based players when let loose and allowed to think on who he wants! Do I need to draw a diagram between your false logic and the result of getting Sousa in?
When Parky eventually goes, if he is still available, I would say he is an interesting option & if he is interested in the job I would hope we interview him. That is all I can ask for.
You don't know, I don't know what is really going on.
Bartlett, but again he'd come in on loan first. Amman, Petersen, Rommers, Kish all came in directly as permanent transfers from abroad though I think.
They spent $250k on Greer. So did we on Benson.
Calderon was a free agent & had left Alaves when Brighton signed him.
Most of the rest came in on frees from reserve team squads at Championship or Lower League level.
Ankergren - one of your two well know Leauge One players - Leeds reserve
El-Abd - been with them since 2003
Painter - cruciate victim at Swasea, hadnt played for them in 3 months before Poyet took a gamble bringing him in on loan
Calderon - released by Alaves, without a club for 6 months - inspired signing no doubt contacts within the game
Greer - £250k - our Benson - or even our Docherty who was outstanding with Norwich last season, but seems to be struggling this time round.
Dicker -free transfer from L2 Stockport
Bennett - free transfer from Wolves where he never played a league game
Kishishev - free from Liteks Lovech - great signing
Sparrow - came from Scunthorpe - no arguments that he will be on a good salary
Murray - cost £300k back in Jan 2008, has developed well under Poyet
Barnes - plucked from Plymouth reserves after a spell on loan at Torquay
Cannot agree at all with your comments.
Yes Sparrow & Ankgeren came in on free at good wages.
Yes they matched our spend on Benson with Greer.
The rest were all either already there or were languisihing in obscurity.
For some reason i couldn't use the quote function so just copied instead.
I would just like to pick up on some points here if i may.
Bennett actually cost 200k, a fans favorite who is easily worth 750k.A real gem of a player.
We had Painter onloan last season and he was fantastic for us and i'm very suprised we picked him up on a free in the summer.We have been screaming out for a solid leftback for years.Don't forget he played every game for Swansea in there promotion season from this league.
Noone new anything about Calderon and he was a gamble i agree.I see he isn't rated that highly on here but believe me this player is pure class.There is no better right back in this league i can assure you.He loves to get forward aswell and another fans favorite.
Greer vs Benson? Sorry no contest here.Greer was by far the best center half in this league last year and Poyet spent all summer trying to sign him from Swindon.That was his first 90 mins on saturday and there's alot more to come from him.Soild inthe air and very vocal.He is superb with the ball at his feet and is left footed which is an added bonus.Poyet made him captain when he signed him.
Some people on here are going overboard with our playing budget.We are not even in the top 6 in this league and we haven't spent anywhere near what Huddersfield or Saints have.
We have also brought some rubbish which we have either sold off like Dickinson or sent out onloan(2 players) but to be fair they are not Poyet's signings though.
If you look at the players we have signed,most have won promotion with there old clubs which will really adds to our armoury ie Painter-Swans-Sparrow-Scunny-Greer-Donny-Casper- Leeds etc etc
I can honestly say you won't find a better defense in this league or a better manager then
Poyet himself,the man is a tactical genius and has excellent coaching skills.He isn't affraid to drop any player in our team as was proved on saturday when Elphick who has played every game so far made way for Greer.
Don't forget Poyet lost his first five games in charge of us before we finished the season as the inform team.He then cleared out the rubbish and has added some real bargins some free to the squad.Our form form from last season has continued where it has left off.
I will be very suprised if we don't up this season.We have a fantastic rich chairman and a new stadium ready for next season so the futures bright.If there is any weak link to our team then it's upfront and no real cover for our fullbacks so we need some luck with injuires.
I've been supporting the Albion for over 25 years now and i haven't seen a better squad or manager.I hope you can understand why i feel confident this season.
One thing i would also like to mention is that Poyet has just signed a new 4 year deal and his trust assistant so the compensation money would be extreamly high ie 1 million plus.Besides Poyet has said he isn't going anywhere unless it's Chelsea or Real Madrid.That was his own words.I'm confident we will have him for at least 3 years.
All 13 boxes have been sold off and 2000 posh seats have gone already.This is even before the normal season tickets go on sale.With an average of 18,000 if not higher not many clubs in the ccc will be bigger then us.
You will just have to trust me that the club are aiming to sell all season tickets.Don't forget i've stood at the Goldstone ground with 25k crowds.
Why would Poyet bother with prem teams like Wigan/Bolton etc? All he will do is struggle with those sort of clubs.
Our chairman will back Poyet well and for the reason it will take a big club to get him.
Jorge Costa! Curbs almost signed Alex (Alessandro Dos Santos) but he could not get a work permit and we were also very close to signing Flamini.
There are countless examples over the years of the lure of the Premiership. Those ticket sales may be impressive, but will Poyet really care about that?
Should be a good year to go into the champ next season, it's still full of better coached but utter dross. Do you thin Glen Murray will make it? I have my doubts about him in the champ. Surely Bloom will splash the cash, and if he does you can't go much wrong on Danny Graham. He's the best forward I've seen in the champ, went off the boil last year like the rest of the Watford team but even even when he's not scoring he just looks like and does take the piss out of any defender with his intelligent physicality. It'd be great to see Brighton in the prem instead of Brum, Hulls and Wolves of this world.
As for Murray he splits fans opinions and i'm in the camp where we could do better but he is all that we have at the moment.It's a shame he doesn't score more goals because he has got a good footballing brain.I personally don't think he would cut it a division higher.I know Gus is desperate to sign another striker even on loan but he is finding it hard to get the right man.
I've never known an Albion side with so many different nationalities within the squad.This is all down to Gus and his continental approach.We have a fantastic blend and some great foreign players.It really is exciting times ahead for us.
As for a striker for the division above i would love to sign Charlie Ausin of Swindon.He has bags of potential but may command a high fee.I wouldn't be suprised to see Poyet go overseas again as players tend to be cheaper.
Without doubt our best find is Calderon.I'm so pleased he did a u-turn and didn't join the Saints.You simply cannot replace players like that for free.
Even the players we had here before Gus arrived looked very average ie El-Abd and all of a sudden they look amazing.It's all down to Poyet and his coaching skills.
Which brings us neatly back to my original point about Sousa, he has played under the very best coaches in Europe at the highest level. I am not necessarily advocating him as Park's replacement, but as the type of manager we shoudl be looking at to take the club forward.
I loved the quote from Richie Wellens at Leicester complaining about training under Sousa..."I found it difficult playing 11-a-side games which are shape orientated. We didn't really get a sweat on in training"
We are perhaps in need of a coach who can get the best out of the journeymen, my point never really was about wages or transfer spending - more about progressive coaching & coaxing the best out of the individuals that Parky, has to his credit, assembled skillfully.
Talking of Brighton managers Steve - does Chris Cattlin still have his Rock Shop on the seafront? I lived in Brighton in the late 70s/early 80s, went to school with Ian Chapman & was coached at school by Brian Horton, Neil McNab & Andy Ritchie!
Just back after a long day, trying to understand what you are saying here Colin.
(1). I can only & i think fairly assume that when he arrived at Brighton in Jan 2010 on a short-term deal until the end of the season he was on a relatively inexpensive wage wise as opposed to Fraser Richardson who was well known within the English game & was signed on a 2 year deal
(2). Nowhere in any post at any time have I disputed that he is now on a lucrative new contract.
Before you throw around cheap insults, at least check the premise of your own arguments. You are a clever man no doubt, just try to be a little more humble please.
My simple point, to restate it is that it was a bloody good signing in the first place by Poyet.
Finally I apologise if by making assumptions here & speculating offends you so greatly. If we were to limit input on this board to those who can post without resorting to either, we would have to hope that Murray & Parky sign up here pretty soon.
If we ever lost Poyet then Sousa is the type of manager i would want myself or another untried young manager.We have certainly been through alot of managers ourselves and i wouldn't want to go down the dinosaur route of Micky Adams types of again.
I was only in Brighton a relatively short time, but I still have a lot of affection for the club (apart from when you are trouncing us!). Was at the Goldstone for the 7-0 & the 3-5. Still remember Cattlin bringing in some inspired signings during his tenure - Dean Saunders, Martin Keown (on loan), Danny Wilson. Kind of lost touch with the club once i moved and no longer had easy access to John Vinnicombe (is he still around?) - although I followed Ian Chapman's progress from afar.
Just one thing, I think that SteveBHA is perhaps slightly rose-tinted if he thinks that Poyet would not swap League One for the Premiership or a well-placed CCC club if the opportunity arose.
With the best will in the world, and I have a soft spot for Brighton, they are never going to do more than a Charlton/Wigan in the Premiership (and even that is a LONG way off) so if Poyet gets an offer from a Premiership side then he will be off.
As for the compensation, 1 million quid is what most Premiership sides pay their reserve left-back!