Having watched the goals from yesterday it looks like he was at fault for all three of the Carlisle goals. We should have stuck with Randolph he was far better keeper than Elliot. In fact I would go as far and say that if Elliot hadn't have got injured in March and Randolph had played for the last 10 or so matches I don't think that Charlton would have made the play offs last season.
I think dropping a goalkeeper is a decision that should not be taken lightly. It destroys the confidence of a lad far more than an outfield player getting dropped, and it's mad to talk of bringing keepers back into the side after a few games out.
Dropping a keeper not only effects him but the back four as well. They have to get used to a different person behind them and sometimes poor decisions are made in an instant. You can't judge a keeper by how many he lets in, there's so much more to the position. Generally Elliott is OK and I agree with others that he's not a natural athlete, but his judgement is usually sound. It's a difficult decision though, especially when the team is leaking goals. The defenders and the team defending as a unit needs to be looked at as well. But I do despair sometimes, seeing Doherty labelled as a 'donkey' when last season he was one of the best defenders in the league in a team that ended up running away with the league title.
Robbie has def had a drop in form this season. I could be he's not 100% fit. However I strongly believe it down to that stupid pink top he's made to wear, Lets face most proper men would rather be dead than seen wearing a pink toto in front of 15000 people
I think Robbie is a good goalie.Not quite as good as randolph, who impressed me but good enough for this division. It will be interesting to compare hm with Weaver on Saturday who used to get considerable stick as well. As for being fat, well Robbie needs to put on about 4 stone to get to the Lawrence of Liverpool level. Lawrence was a formidable goalie despite his weight.
Just seen the goals. Not entirely sure what he could've done about the first two - bit harsh to dig him out when the defence parted in front of him like that.
Elliot is getting a bit of a rough ride at the moment, imho. He has weaknesses that need working on but so do all players - I think we need to ask more questions of the back four before we start hammering Elliot. Too many crosses are being allowed in by our fullbacks and the defenders in the box simply aren't dealing with them properly - Francis left his man unmarked for Carlisle's first, Doc let his man get goal side for the second. Eliot might have done bettter for the third but it was a bit of a freak goal too.
Randolph was better imo but he's gone now so no point using it as a stick to beat Robbie with - that's not his fault. Worner has done okay but he cost us goals at Huddersfield so he's hardly been flawless.
Buffon would struggle to keep clean sheets in this side because we keep leaving players unmarked 6 yards from goal.
In answer to the original question though, Parky said he likes Elliot because he's a player who has worked hard at his game to get to where he is. If that's true then he can continue to work hard and improve. He's still very young for a goalkeeper. He's already better than a much more experienced Weaver was for us, and I can't see how singling him out and piling pressure on him is going to help his decision making and reduce the number of errors.
EGA is right, you can almost feel the anxiety when the team walks out at the Valley. Maybe they should be thicker skinned but the fact is they don't look at ease at home and this current trend for picking out a new scapegoat after every match isn't going to help. It really would be nice to go 24hrs without someone getting a slagging on here.
Elliot is still very young and is bound to make some mistakes. Goalkeepers learn and get better with age. I believe Robbie has all the qualities to become a very good keeper.
However there seems to be a theme of slagging off young players, This time last year Shelvey was getting all sorts of abuse and critism from some and so was Waggy and Solly. Be patient with our youngsters.
I think elliot is pants he's short and fat and not athletic enough to be a outstanding goalkeeper. Big Big mistake letting randolph go. I think you need keeper with a big presence to make defenders feel at ease with whos behind them and secondly to intimidate strikers with his size between the sticks.
I think that those above defending Elliot do have a point that certainly the whole defensive set up of the team has been poor of late and Robbie shouldn't shoulder more than any of the other defenders. However. I do stand by what I said at the top of the thread and that Robbie is and always has been too overweight and not athletic enough to be anything more than barely adequate. God only knows how the coaching staff allow him to carry all that weight. Something wrong there.
[cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]
He's already better than a much more experienced Weaver was for us.
Disagree totally , weaver was a better keeper for us
And if we're not allowed to discuss players pros and cons on a forum wtf is the point ......some fans are far too precious about our team , we're in the worst position we have been in in the 34 years that I have been watching charlton so I do think questions have to be asked as to why we are where we are ...... Or should we all just pretend everything is pretty and rosey in la la charlton land and not say anything that isn't complete praise cos it might affect our poor prcious players
There's ways to go about criticising people oohaah. It's facetious to suggest Elliot is just useless and it's unfair to start a thread slating him for 3 goals conceded, only one of which he could have reasonably done something about and in my eyes it's the first goal this season you can hold him directly responsible for. I've no problem with people discussing individuals strengths and weaknesses and how that can and cannot benefit the team, but where Elliot is concerned you're criticism starts and ends with 'he's rubbish' which simply isn't fair or balanced.
For what it's worth, his struggles with his weight worry me for his long term career prospects and he does things I don't like, for example he parries too many shots back into the danger zone rather than around the post although I think he's improving on this. Weaver also had both these problems but was terrible at dealing with crosses - Elliot gets a raw deal on this imo, he's not the most solid collector of crosses in the business but he does try and come and deal with things and usually does so prettty well. People say he's not athletic enough but he's pulled of good saves in most games this season and I stand by my statement that his biggest issue is that he's being overworked.
It's all well and good people suddenly jumping on a band wagon that Worner should play but he's a very young player plucked from non-league. He's done okay in a couple of cup games and in some fairly low pressure league games but he had a bit of a stinker in a tough game at Huddersfield. I don't believe for a second he's going to come in and suddenly be flawless and it will only take a couple of bad games before the "What does Parky see in Worner?" thread is started and how is that going to help a young players career if he reads it?
I don't agree with ColTat's persistent singling out of Racon, but at least he takes the time to constructively criticise. We're all well aware of your opinion of Elliot and the constant banging of the same drum, with no new insight gets and bit boring.
[cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]There's ways to go about criticising people oohaah. It's facetious to suggest Elliot is just useless and it's unfair to start a thread slating him for 3 goals conceded, only one of which he could have reasonably done something about and in my eyes it's the first goal this season you can hold him directly responsible for. I've no problem with people discussing individuals strengths and weaknesses and how that can and cannot benefit the team, but where Elliot is concerned you're criticism starts and ends with 'he's rubbish' which simply isn't fair or balanced.
For what it's worth, his struggles with his weight worry me for his long term career prospects and he does things I don't like, for example he parries too many shots back into the danger zone rather than around the post although I think he's improving on this. Weaver also had both these problems but was terrible at dealing with crosses - Elliot gets a raw deal on this imo, he's not the most solid collector of crosses in the business but he does try and come and deal with things and usually does so prettty well. People say he's not athletic enough but he's pulled of good saves in most games this season and I stand by my statement that his biggest issue is that he's being overworked.
It's all well and good people suddenly jumping on a band wagon that Worner should play but he's a very young player plucked from non-league. He's done okay in a couple of cup games and in some fairly low pressure league games but he had a bit of a stinker in a tough game at Huddersfield. I don't believe for a second he's going to come in and suddenly be flawless and it will only take a couple of bad games before the "What does Parky see in Worner?" thread is started and how is that going to help a young players career if he reads it?
I don't agree with ColTat's persistent singling out of Racon, but at least he takes the time to constructively criticise. We're all well aware of your opinion of Elliot and the constant banging of the same drum, with no new insight gets and bit boring.
Spot on!
Robbie may not be Deano, but I firmly belive there are not many better than Elliot in League 1. For example top of the league Brighton keeper Ankergren always looked a weak link for Leeds and I would not swap Robbie for him.
Where have I said "he's rubbish" or "useless" ????
I don't think he's improved at all since he arrived in the team 2 years ago ...
He constantly is beaten from distance and swisdom(who I believe was a decent keeper in his day) points out the lack of mobility or reading of the game that leads to the so called many wonder strikes that go shooting past him
Last season we saw the turnaround when randy came in and I wasn't in any position to say that he would have improved us by that much just as with this season I don't know how much worner would improve us but imho I don't think he'd do any worse hope these views are fair and balanced enough for you ....... Pah
look closer at Worner, 4 goals to Shrewsbury, watching highlights it was all defensive errors, and then 3 to Udders, being thrown in at the very last moment, one goal was his fault (rushing out) and since that he looked better and better every game until he looked better and more assured than Robbie. Suddenly Elliot's fit again and is thrown in infront of Ross and hasn't exactly set the world alight. He doesn't look comfortable when diving, is slow to react and doesn't seem to command his own area. Personally I'd send him away for a couple of weeks intensive training to regain full fitness, he only looks about 60-70% to me
He's decent enough, not great but not rubbish either. Losing a few pounds certainly wouldn't hurt his game but it wont be the one big detail keeping him below Prem level.
Doesn't command the box enough for me. This puts pressure and nerves into the back 4. Doesn't anticipate early enough and doesn't concentrate for 90 mins in every game hence the clangers
[cite]Posted By: redman[/cite]Elliot is still very young and is bound to make some mistakes. Goalkeepers learn and get better with age. I believe Robbie has all the qualities to become a very good keeper.
However there seems to be a theme of slagging off young players, This time last year Shelvey was getting all sorts of abuse and critism from some and so was Waggy and Solly. Be patient with our youngsters.
I said before in the Elliot v Randolph debate I thought Randy was a better keeper, stopping wise I don't think there is much between the two however Randy seemed to control his area a lot better than Rob does. In turn this filtered through to the back four who at the time seemed a lot more organised, whether this is because they had more faith in Randy is debatable but the one major thing I think Rob lacks is his communication. It is hugely important for keepers to constantly talk to their defenders and for me Rob doesn't do this enough and perhaps is why our defenders look all over the place at times.
I think we are viewing Randys contribution last season with rose tinted specs, yes he played very well and earned us valuable points- Leeds/MK Dons but he is no Deano either. He now plays for Motherwell were the standard if not much higher than League 1 and let us not forget that Randy was effectively third choice at one point last seson. Also in the last minute against Colchester last season he made a really bad howler which they failed to capitilise on, bet if that went in, a few peoples high opinion of him would be lower.
I am not saying Randy is not a good keeper but he is gone now, there is no point keep comparing him to Elliot who is our Number 1, is a decent keeper and certainly is not significantly worse than Randy. We need to concentrate on the players we have- not those who aren't here.
I wasn't there yesterday but from what I saw from the highlights then elliott is the least of our worries. And as for being Ponderous, well, I've seen tectonic plates move quicker than docherty.
Comments
We should have stuck with Randolph he was far better keeper than Elliot. In fact I would go as far and say that if Elliot hadn't have got injured in March and Randolph had played for the last 10 or so matches I don't think that Charlton would have made the play offs last season.
Dropping a keeper not only effects him but the back four as well. They have to get used to a different person behind them and sometimes poor decisions are made in an instant. You can't judge a keeper by how many he lets in, there's so much more to the position. Generally Elliott is OK and I agree with others that he's not a natural athlete, but his judgement is usually sound. It's a difficult decision though, especially when the team is leaking goals. The defenders and the team defending as a unit needs to be looked at as well. But I do despair sometimes, seeing Doherty labelled as a 'donkey' when last season he was one of the best defenders in the league in a team that ended up running away with the league title.
comment from a friend who was there yesterday " Robbie seemed ponderous ".....
I give you D&R's Tony Roberts...............
The pie- fancier actually looks far more svelte in this picture than he did at the Valley.
Randolph was better imo but he's gone now so no point using it as a stick to beat Robbie with - that's not his fault. Worner has done okay but he cost us goals at Huddersfield so he's hardly been flawless.
Buffon would struggle to keep clean sheets in this side because we keep leaving players unmarked 6 yards from goal.
In answer to the original question though, Parky said he likes Elliot because he's a player who has worked hard at his game to get to where he is. If that's true then he can continue to work hard and improve. He's still very young for a goalkeeper. He's already better than a much more experienced Weaver was for us, and I can't see how singling him out and piling pressure on him is going to help his decision making and reduce the number of errors.
EGA is right, you can almost feel the anxiety when the team walks out at the Valley. Maybe they should be thicker skinned but the fact is they don't look at ease at home and this current trend for picking out a new scapegoat after every match isn't going to help. It really would be nice to go 24hrs without someone getting a slagging on here.
However there seems to be a theme of slagging off young players, This time last year Shelvey was getting all sorts of abuse and critism from some and so was Waggy and Solly. Be patient with our youngsters.
And if we're not allowed to discuss players pros and cons on a forum wtf is the point ......some fans are far too precious about our team , we're in the worst position we have been in in the 34 years that I have been watching charlton so I do think questions have to be asked as to why we are where we are ...... Or should we all just pretend everything is pretty and rosey in la la charlton land and not say anything that isn't complete praise cos it might affect our poor prcious players
For what it's worth, his struggles with his weight worry me for his long term career prospects and he does things I don't like, for example he parries too many shots back into the danger zone rather than around the post although I think he's improving on this. Weaver also had both these problems but was terrible at dealing with crosses - Elliot gets a raw deal on this imo, he's not the most solid collector of crosses in the business but he does try and come and deal with things and usually does so prettty well. People say he's not athletic enough but he's pulled of good saves in most games this season and I stand by my statement that his biggest issue is that he's being overworked.
It's all well and good people suddenly jumping on a band wagon that Worner should play but he's a very young player plucked from non-league. He's done okay in a couple of cup games and in some fairly low pressure league games but he had a bit of a stinker in a tough game at Huddersfield. I don't believe for a second he's going to come in and suddenly be flawless and it will only take a couple of bad games before the "What does Parky see in Worner?" thread is started and how is that going to help a young players career if he reads it?
I don't agree with ColTat's persistent singling out of Racon, but at least he takes the time to constructively criticise. We're all well aware of your opinion of Elliot and the constant banging of the same drum, with no new insight gets and bit boring.
Spot on!
Robbie may not be Deano, but I firmly belive there are not many better than Elliot in League 1. For example top of the league Brighton keeper Ankergren always looked a weak link for Leeds and I would not swap Robbie for him.
I don't think he's improved at all since he arrived in the team 2 years ago ...
He constantly is beaten from distance and swisdom(who I believe was a decent keeper in his day) points out the lack of mobility or reading of the game that leads to the so called many wonder strikes that go shooting past him
Last season we saw the turnaround when randy came in and I wasn't in any position to say that he would have improved us by that much just as with this season I don't know how much worner would improve us but imho I don't think he'd do any worse hope these views are fair and balanced enough for you ....... Pah
Whilst not a massive fan (I slightly preferred Randolph), I fail to see that he has done anything wrong in either of the last 2 games.
Carlisle's 3rd was a mis hit cross that went over his head and I believe would have gone over any keeper's head if they were positioned correctly.
Remember the Seaman goal.
ATM Elliot is a decent keeper and is not the cause of our problems.
Absolutely right.
I am not saying Randy is not a good keeper but he is gone now, there is no point keep comparing him to Elliot who is our Number 1, is a decent keeper and certainly is not significantly worse than Randy. We need to concentrate on the players we have- not those who aren't here.