Colour Sargeant Bourne was an addick. FACT. In the scene where the Zulus threaten to overun the hospital you see him shouting but cannot hear what he shouts. After much study I can confidently tell you he shouts " come on you reds" ;0)
Ha ha ha you couldn't be more wrong...they're not mocking you...they're saluting you.
Bromhead: Those bastards! They're taunting us!
Adendorff: ha ha ha No, you couldn't be more wrong! They're saluting you. They're saluting fellow braves!
Do you reckon the Zulu's really wanted to win? Seems odd that they didn't surround the place and attack with all 4000 men at once. Would surely have been over in about 5-10 minutes. Someone will have the answer out there.
[cite]Posted By: Simonsen[/cite]Do you reckon the Zulu's really wanted to win? Seems odd that they didn't surround the place and attack with all 4000 men at once. Would surely have been over in about 5-10 minutes. Someone will have the answer out there.
Possible answer.... that wouldn't have made a good movie would it? there was probably only 400 Zulu and they probably did just that but as the soldiers had a solid point to defend it ended with only 11 soldiers surviving.... the 11 to be awarded medals. PROBABLY
I would encurage anyone to do some reading on the subject to make your own minds up. For me, they hint at it during the film when they say about the British Army not liking two defeats in one day because, "it doesn't look good in the newspapers". There's no doubt that the battle took place, but was it as dramatic and heroic as the film? Almost certainly not, but that doesn't stop it being a great, great film.
Agree Off_it, I like to think the battle wasted less than 2000-4000 lives! PL54 The National Anthem would have been better I agree. However the welsh as stated in the film had a choir in every batallion hence the welsh song sung (Maybe)
The ever reliable Wiki states 351 confirmed killed and about 500 wounded Zulu's compared to 15 brits killed or died of wounds and 13 recorded wounded (although many minor wounds were not reported)
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Ah, but it wasn't actually a Welsh regiment Dazzler.
I'll stop now. Don't want to ruin it for you.
;o)
Lol.... I wont win this one (as i'm deffo just assuming things!)
Hours of mis-spent youth on my part mate. However, like I said before, even though I know some of the real facts and can make some reasoned assumptions on other things (not even all of th historians can agree on some bits), it still doesn't spoil my enjoyment of the film. Absolutely love it!
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Ah, but it wasn't actually a Welsh regiment Dazzler.
I'll stop now. Don't want to ruin it for you.
;o)
Lol.... I wont win this one (as i'm deffo just assuming things!)
Hours of mis-spent youth on my part mate. However, like I said before, even though I know some of the real facts and can make some reasoned assumptions on other things (not even all of th historians can agree on some bits), it still doesn't spoil my enjoyment of the film. Absolutely love it!
As for the history of the 24th Regiment of Foot, like most things connected with the British Army, it is a story of amalgamations and at the time of the Zulu Wars, it was definitely not a Welsh Regiment. It was actually part of the 2nd Warwickshire Regiment, although like all regiments of the British Army, its recruited far and wide, including South Wales and London (Fred Hitch, one of the VC winners came from Chiswick for example.) It didn't become exclusively a Welsh regiment until the 1881 reforms of the British Army, when they moved depot to Brecon and were renamed the South Wales Borderers.
John Chard was a Royal Engineer ("I came here to build a bridge!")
As for how many Zulus attacked Rorke's Drift? It was probably something in the region of 4-5,000 - enough but not the hordes depicted in the film. Why didn't they all attack at the same time? We'll never know but their tactics were geared towards a mobile enemy moving out to attack them and being enveloped by the Impis - possibly an entrenched, static enemy as they encountered at Rorke's Drift threw their tactics a bit.
Clive Harris, an Addicks fan as well as a very good military historian does a talk on the battle, which he starts by symbolically throwing a copy of the DVD into the waste bin!
Having said all of that, as Off it above says, it is a terrific film and one of those which I'm happy to watch time after time.
Favourite line from the film - Colour Sergeant Bourne "Yes sir, the gentleman has a bottle!"
You can bank on Zulu military tactics being based around a full frontal assault and then a slogging kill or be killed match which it seems they tried. Unfortunately for them and unlike the earlier battle of Isandlwana this time the British troops had dug themselves in and had reasonable cover in the farmhouse and made good use of whatever defences they had to hand - biscuit tins, sacks of grain etc.
During the earlier battle the British under Lord Chelmsford had neglected to dig any trenches or form any kind of meaningful defence line. He believed that any attack could easily be beaten off and to be fair they were armed with the Martini-Henry repeating rifles and some artillery and considered despite standing orders that he could easily hold off a Zulu army who were armed with sharpened mangos, assegais, cowskin shields and a very few muskets and rifles, most of which were next to useless because they lacked any skill in using them and didn't keep them in working order. At that battle sheer weight of numbers and surprise won the battle and those were the tactics they tried at Rorkes Drift.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]You can bank on Zulu military tactics being based around a full frontal assault and then a slogging kill or be killed match which it seems they tried. Unfortunately for them and unlike the earlier battle of Isandlwana this time the British troops had dug themselves in and had reasonable cover in the farmhouse and made good use of whatever defences they had to hand - biscuit tins, sacks of grain etc.
During the earlier battle the British under Lord Chelmsford had neglected to dig any trenches or form any kind of meaningful defence line. He believed that any attack could easily be beaten off and to be fair they were armed with the Martini-Henry repeating rifles and some artillery and considered despite standing orders that he could easily hold off a Zulu army who were armed with sharpened mangos, assegais, cowskin shields and a very few muskets and rifles, most of which were next to useless because they lacked any skill in using them and didn't keep them in working order. At that battle sheer weight of numbers and surprise won the battle and those were the tactics they tried at Rorkes Drift.
That's a pretty fair assessment. Incidentally, a major change of British Army policy followed the Battle of Isandhlwana. After the battle,the Zulus seized five British band-boys and treated them with appalling savagery, either slitting their throats or hanging them from butchers hooks and slicing up their bodies. Following this incident, the British Army never took boys on active service again.
Then there was the fact that all of the British dead at Isandhlwana had their bodies ripped open by the Zulu's from neck to waist. Apparently it was a ritual thing - a sign of respect almost - to allow the spirit to leave the body, but you do have to wonder how many fellas might've gotten caught out playing dead!
Clive Harris, an Addicks fan as well as a very good military historian does a talk on the battle, which he starts by symbolically throwing a copy of the DVD into the waste bin!
Bet he ALWAYS gets it out again afterwards though!
;o)
Certainly one of my favourite films. It was the first "adult" film that my Dad took me to see on a "dads & lads" evening when I was twelve.
I shouldn't get too worried about the signing of Men of Harlech. This would have been well known amongst the soldiery whatever their origins and regiment. If the RSM was Welsh, he may just of encouraged them.
Clive Harris, an Addicks fan as well as a very good military historian does a talk on the battle, which he starts by symbolically throwing a copy of the DVD into the waste bin!
Bet he ALWAYS gets it out again afterwards though!
;o)
The "indoor" scenes in the hospital, etc, were all filmed back in the UK. James Booth (Hook) apparently had other filming commitments so couldn't travel to South Africa. Therefore, although the Zulu's in the outdoor scenes were locals - and many were probably descendants of those who actually fough in the battle - the "Zulu's" in the indoor scenes were actually a load of fellas from Brixton. FACT!
Went to see this with my Grandad in 1964 at the ABC in Woolwich we walked down from Ogilby Street (Harding House)....very fond memories...couldnt get over the colours on the screen (B&W tv's in those days) and I was just a nipper
Comments
Bromhead: Those bastards! They're taunting us!
Adendorff: ha ha ha No, you couldn't be more wrong! They're saluting you. They're saluting fellow braves!
Because we're 'ere lad.
That is a Welsh song. They have gone down in my opinion.
I would encurage anyone to do some reading on the subject to make your own minds up. For me, they hint at it during the film when they say about the British Army not liking two defeats in one day because, "it doesn't look good in the newspapers". There's no doubt that the battle took place, but was it as dramatic and heroic as the film? Almost certainly not, but that doesn't stop it being a great, great film.
I'll stop now. Don't want to ruin it for you.
;o)
Hours of mis-spent youth on my part mate. However, like I said before, even though I know some of the real facts and can make some reasoned assumptions on other things (not even all of th historians can agree on some bits), it still doesn't spoil my enjoyment of the film. Absolutely love it!
As for the history of the 24th Regiment of Foot, like most things connected with the British Army, it is a story of amalgamations and at the time of the Zulu Wars, it was definitely not a Welsh Regiment. It was actually part of the 2nd Warwickshire Regiment, although like all regiments of the British Army, its recruited far and wide, including South Wales and London (Fred Hitch, one of the VC winners came from Chiswick for example.) It didn't become exclusively a Welsh regiment until the 1881 reforms of the British Army, when they moved depot to Brecon and were renamed the South Wales Borderers.
John Chard was a Royal Engineer ("I came here to build a bridge!")
As for how many Zulus attacked Rorke's Drift? It was probably something in the region of 4-5,000 - enough but not the hordes depicted in the film. Why didn't they all attack at the same time? We'll never know but their tactics were geared towards a mobile enemy moving out to attack them and being enveloped by the Impis - possibly an entrenched, static enemy as they encountered at Rorke's Drift threw their tactics a bit.
Clive Harris, an Addicks fan as well as a very good military historian does a talk on the battle, which he starts by symbolically throwing a copy of the DVD into the waste bin!
Having said all of that, as Off it above says, it is a terrific film and one of those which I'm happy to watch time after time.
Favourite line from the film - Colour Sergeant Bourne "Yes sir, the gentleman has a bottle!"
During the earlier battle the British under Lord Chelmsford had neglected to dig any trenches or form any kind of meaningful defence line. He believed that any attack could easily be beaten off and to be fair they were armed with the Martini-Henry repeating rifles and some artillery and considered despite standing orders that he could easily hold off a Zulu army who were armed with sharpened mangos, assegais, cowskin shields and a very few muskets and rifles, most of which were next to useless because they lacked any skill in using them and didn't keep them in working order. At that battle sheer weight of numbers and surprise won the battle and those were the tactics they tried at Rorkes Drift.
That's a pretty fair assessment. Incidentally, a major change of British Army policy followed the Battle of Isandhlwana. After the battle,the Zulus seized five British band-boys and treated them with appalling savagery, either slitting their throats or hanging them from butchers hooks and slicing up their bodies. Following this incident, the British Army never took boys on active service again.
Bet he ALWAYS gets it out again afterwards though!
;o)
I shouldn't get too worried about the signing of Men of Harlech. This would have been well known amongst the soldiery whatever their origins and regiment. If the RSM was Welsh, he may just of encouraged them.
But of course - he still likes the film!
The "indoor" scenes in the hospital, etc, were all filmed back in the UK. James Booth (Hook) apparently had other filming commitments so couldn't travel to South Africa. Therefore, although the Zulu's in the outdoor scenes were locals - and many were probably descendants of those who actually fough in the battle - the "Zulu's" in the indoor scenes were actually a load of fellas from Brixton. FACT!
By the way, the guy that played Cetewayo was apparently a direct descendant of the real Cetewayo.
One more strange fact, Ridley Scott, director of Gladiator, used the Zulu war chants from Zulu in Gladiator for the opening battle in Germania.