Not a surprise, we have been riding our luck to some extent in recent games and a loss was obviously around the corner.
From what the commentators were saying on the radio we are in desperate need of a player in midfield who can pass the damned ball and help us keep possession.
If we don't bring someone in then the options are....
a] Bring Racon back in when fit.
b] Play Jackson there and bring Reid wide left.
c] Change the shape and play a midfield diamond with Abbott at the head of the diamond tucked in behind BWP and NE/JA.
[cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite]John this may come across as a stupid question but any idea who's man it was that got free for the winner? (don't know if it was down your end)
Was it just a confusion of finger pointing or was it one individual who lost him?
Sorry SLL - the goal was at the other end - so impossible to tell
I think it is, perhaps, the expectation of some that things (the way we play as well as the results) will change overnight under CP. Teams need time to evolve and to "get" what the Manager is trying to achieve and how he wants them to play.
We also allowed Parky enough time to build a team virtually from scratch and apart from a couple of signings it is his squad that CP is having to work with. I'm not saying that CP will be a fantastic success (although I do desperately hope he is) but there are signs that certain players who struggled to win the fans over under Parky are now playing with a weight off their shoulders.
Henry , you hit the nail on the proverbial, but I couldn't remember who said it! So thanks for that. I'm disappointed , but pragmatic, 4 wins out Of 5 is good, there are clearly weaknesses that need addressing , we are shipping too many goals, and why do we not start well??? Any theories??
Chris Powell is going to need our backing , the Players need to know we are united (sorry for the use of word) and behind them, roll on Saturday, and let's get going again.
I originally posted this comment on another thread but feel it's just as relevant here.
All very commendable this no to boom and bust football economics but there is a worry as far as I am concerned. Evolution in football is notoriously difficult in bringing success. I wonder just how many of the other 92 league clubs are talking the same talk ? About 80 of them I rekon. Those clubs are our competition and I don't see why our evolution should be any better than there's. If and IMHO it's a big if there is money available then I humbly suggest that a decent sum is invested to kick start our evolution and get us back to at least the championship where financially we can perhaps break even. Kicking around in league one for two or three more seasons will not get bums back on Valley seats and without that kick start this current squad is at best evens for the playoffs. Unpopular opinion but I think it a reality we must accept.
[cite]Posted By: heavenSE7[/cite]Football is football. Move onto Saturday.24,500 at the valley, sun shining and a 3-0 win... Were a top 6 side. Were not a top 2 side, but unlike last year with Norwich, I don't think any team is.
Exactly how I feel ... looking forward to Saturday.
Would anyone else have taken 12 from 15 points, five games ago? I would have bitten your whole arm off!
However, there is a lot of improvement to do and we will definately see a couple of good, solid loans coming in soon that will make that difference in midfield/defence.
I wasn't there but if the second goal we conceded was a free header at the back post with no markers then CP will pick up on that because that is exactly what happened for Peterborough's second goal.
Well all that has happened is that we have failed to take advantage of our game in hand. That's a shame but not catastrophic and three points v Exeter in front of 20,000 on Sat will put it in perspective, giving Powell 15 points out of 18.
The frustrating thing is that after winning four on the spin, we still found ourselves fifth, exactly the same position as when it was decided that Parkinson could take us no further. None of the teams above us are slipping up at the moment. In fact, they haven't done pretty much all season. The top six is almost identical to the table at the beginning of Nov (Bournemouth were seventh and Colchester was still in there, otherwise identical).
But as someone pointed out (Large, I think) , we've still got to play Soton twice. Take six points from them and second place is probably between us and Huddersfield, as Bournemouth will surely stumble at some point. Even if we drop points against Soton ,we're still almost certain to make the play-offs, IMO - especially when we get that creative midfielder and pacy centre-back in on loan! And sorting out the defending against set-pieces, would help, but I'm sure SCP will be on to that tomorrow on the training ground (I'm assuming the promised Thursday off has now been scrapped after last night...)
[cite]Posted By: eaststandmike[/cite]I wasn't there but if the second goal we conceded was a free header at the back post with no markers then CP will pick up on that because that is exactly what happened for Peterborough's second goal.
Keep the faith guys, we are a work in progress.
COYR
Jackson was marking him, but the lad out jumped him.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]None of the teams above us are slipping up at the moment. In fact, they haven't done pretty much all season.
That's the frustrating thing as that isn't really the case, despite it seeming that way.
The mark is marginally closer this season, had we replicated last season's results up to now we would be sitting top with a nice cushion from 3rd place
But although we were arguably better placed this time last year, paradoxically I think we have a better chance of automatics this time around.
This time last year I think we all assumed (correctly) that Norwich and Leeds would go up and our realistic best hope was play-offs.
This year, I think we all expect Brighton to go up, but nobody expects Bournemouth to finish in second place, so one automatic place is still wide open and almost certainly between us, Soton and Huddersfield.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]
The mark is marginally closer this season, had we replicated last season's results up to now we would be sitting top with a nice cushion from 3rd place
As ever its lies damn lies and statistics. The mix of teams we played last year is different to the one we played this year and if we played like with like and matched up relegated and promoted we would actually be ahead this season versus last up until before last night, but only a few points in it.
Its a good game to play but the points total in may will be the one that counts.
This time last season we slumped which is when we lost promotion lies and damn lies
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]I'm not too downhearted, the other results in the league mostly went our way and our fate is still in our hands.
The big matches are going to be Saints home and away.
Not forgetting all the teams around us have to play each other, this Sat we have:
Bournemouth v Huddersfield
Rochdale v Southampton
And Hartlepool are at home to the MK Dons
[quote][cite]Posted By: eaststandmike[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]I'm not too downhearted, the other results in the league mostly went our way and our fate is still in our hands.
The big matches are going to be Saints home and away.[/quote]
Not forgetting all the teams around us have to play each other, this Sat we have:
Bournemouth v Huddersfield Rochdale v Southampton And Hartlepool are at home to the MK Dons[/quote]
Good point.
Looking at the league table the first signs of a gap opening between the top few clubs and also rans is showing.
Consistency from here on is what we need and I'd take another 12 points from 15 if offered it, a shame to lose last night, but we can't win every match.
Although weve taken 12 from 15 its hardly been convincing has it.weve been a bit lucky since cp took over,games we have won has problably been down to the spirit in the squad that cp has created since his appointment,this often happens when a new manager takes over and more often than not results improve,it does not hide the fact that we need better quality players in at least 3 positions(dont want to single players out but i think most of you would know which positions)to have any hope of promotion.This is a poor quality division and one I would expect us to find enough quality players to get us out of before Millwall become a bigger club than us.now that really would break my heart
[quote][cite]Posted By: bertpalmer[/cite]Although weve taken 12 from 15 its hardly been convincing has it.weve been a bit lucky since cp took over,games we have won has problably been down to the spirit in the squad that cp has created since his appointment,this often happens when a new manager takes over and more often than not results improve,it does not hide the fact that we need better quality players in at least 3 positions(dont want to single players out but i think most of you would know which positions)to have any hope of promotion.This is a poor quality division and one I would expect us to find enough quality players to get us out of before Millwall become a bigger club than us.now that really would break my heart[/quote]
Success breeds success, compare with the lack of confidence flooding through the team in the matches prior to Parky getting the sack. Twice we played against ten men and twice we held on for a draw, then squandered a one-nil lead at home to a Swindon side with one of the poorest away records in L1.
For around a month we looked inept, shorn of confidence, error prone and just plain unhappy as a team. Things are going in the right direction, I'd still like a loanee or two to reinforce the defence though.
[cite]Posted By: bertpalmer[/cite]Although weve taken 12 from 15 its hardly been convincing has it.weve been a bit lucky since cp took over,games we have won has problably been down to the spirit in the squad that cp has created since his appointment,this often happens when a new manager takes over and more often than not results improve,it does not hide the fact that we need better quality players in at least 3 positions(dont want to single players out but i think most of you would know which positions)to have any hope of promotion.This is a poor quality division and one I would expect us to find enough quality players to get us out of before Millwall become a bigger club than us.now that really would break my heart
I understand what you are saying and perhaps we have been a bit lucky since CP took over, however as BFR says success breeds success, there does appear to be a new confidence showing in the team and 12/15 is a decent return. I also agree however that we are 2/3 players short in 'key' areas and I think its important to, if possible, add to the squad (especially as injuries now seem to be coming thick and fast).
In my mind the most telling part of CP's tenure to date will be to see how the starting 11 on saturday respond to the defeat and, hopefully, a very large and noisy home crowd, especially in the first half. We need CP to get the team 'up and at em' from the first whistle, and if by then we may have added 1 or 2 to the squad then I believe we have the squad to get us out of this league this year.
One defeat is not the end of the world, it may just be, as I said earlier in this thread, the opportunity to chnage things slightly and for the better.
In the car on the way back will give a fuller report later.
Plusses?
Abbott: great game worked his socks off linked up well and caused problems.
Dailly: best game for ages ditto for doc.
Jenkinson: came on looked composed not afraid to battle.
Negatives:
Fry: worst game for us
Mac: just don't see what he adds.
Midfield: overrun again. Please come back racon.
Reid: all he had to do in injury time was put a decent corner in. All he could do was hit the side netting. Bloody furious.
More than the result, It was disapointing that we didn't impose ourselves on the game. We haven't really managed that too much this season but have the quality of players were this should be more common at the level we are competing in. Without disrespecting Hartlepool, their recent results have suggested that this was a game for the taking and I was hoping that the confidence from recent victories would be a springboard for the performances to follow.
This defeat could actually turn out to be a good thing if we get the right reaction - starting on Saturday or could be the end of SCP's honeymoon period. If we scrape through every game like we have been doing, we will inevitably end up losing a few and the trick is to have more of the dominating performances, where we are clearly the better team. We could of course lose a few of those, but it puts the odds in our favour of winning. One think you can't rely on is luck. I can accept losing to Hartlepool but find it more difficult to deservedly losing if you know what I mean.
Unfortunately we are a scalp, every team that plays us will be as up for it as they can be, and teams will play to their strengths (as Sheffield Wednesday are finding). But we have greater resources and should make these prevail. I'm sure SCP will know what areas he needs improvement in and we may see these adressed shortly within the emergency loan window so we all need to keep the faith. A win on Saturday and things will be looking brighter.
Midfield poses a problem because JJ doesn't really do much- but he scores goals which is invaluable so very difficult if not impossible to drop him. Semedo puts in Semedo performances every game and needs 2 others in there to compliment him. Like others seem to think, for me, McCormack should be one of those only in an emergency. Racon needs to step up to the plate or we need to bring somebody in of the necessary quality.
Fry has worried me for a while - he doesn't fill me with confidence and hopefully Bessone will be back for Saturday.
[cite]Posted By: MuttleyCAFC[/cite]Midfield poses a problem because JJ doesn't really do much- but he scores goals which is invaluable so very difficult if not impossible to drop him. Semedo puts in Semedo performances every game and needs 2 others in there to compliment him. Like others seem to think, for me, McCormack should be one of those only in an emergency. Racon needs to step up to the plate or we need to bring somebody in of the necessary quality.
Fry has worried me for a while - he doesn't fill me with confidence and hopefully Bessone will be back for Saturday.
JJ does a lot, much of it off the ball, so it doesn't get noticed.
Comments
Why should we be certain of a win there, you are so doom and gloom
From what the commentators were saying on the radio we are in desperate need of a player in midfield who can pass the damned ball and help us keep possession.
If we don't bring someone in then the options are....
a] Bring Racon back in when fit.
b] Play Jackson there and bring Reid wide left.
c] Change the shape and play a midfield diamond with Abbott at the head of the diamond tucked in behind BWP and NE/JA.
Sorry SLL - the goal was at the other end - so impossible to tell
We also allowed Parky enough time to build a team virtually from scratch and apart from a couple of signings it is his squad that CP is having to work with. I'm not saying that CP will be a fantastic success (although I do desperately hope he is) but there are signs that certain players who struggled to win the fans over under Parky are now playing with a weight off their shoulders.
I'm disappointed , but pragmatic, 4 wins out Of 5 is good, there are clearly weaknesses that need addressing , we are shipping too many goals, and why do we not start well??? Any theories??
Chris Powell is going to need our backing , the Players need to know we are united (sorry for the use of word) and behind them, roll on Saturday, and let's get going again.
All very commendable this no to boom and bust football economics but there is a worry as far as I am concerned. Evolution in football is notoriously difficult in bringing success. I wonder just how many of the other 92 league clubs are talking the same talk ? About 80 of them I rekon. Those clubs are our competition and I don't see why our evolution should be any better than there's. If and IMHO it's a big if there is money available then I humbly suggest that a decent sum is invested to kick start our evolution and get us back to at least the championship where financially we can perhaps break even. Kicking around in league one for two or three more seasons will not get bums back on Valley seats and without that kick start this current squad is at best evens for the playoffs. Unpopular opinion but I think it a reality we must accept.
Exactly how I feel ... looking forward to Saturday.
However, there is a lot of improvement to do and we will definately see a couple of good, solid loans coming in soon that will make that difference in midfield/defence.
Keep the faith guys, we are a work in progress.
COYR
The frustrating thing is that after winning four on the spin, we still found ourselves fifth, exactly the same position as when it was decided that Parkinson could take us no further. None of the teams above us are slipping up at the moment. In fact, they haven't done pretty much all season. The top six is almost identical to the table at the beginning of Nov (Bournemouth were seventh and Colchester was still in there, otherwise identical).
But as someone pointed out (Large, I think) , we've still got to play Soton twice. Take six points from them and second place is probably between us and Huddersfield, as Bournemouth will surely stumble at some point. Even if we drop points against Soton ,we're still almost certain to make the play-offs, IMO - especially when we get that creative midfielder and pacy centre-back in on loan! And sorting out the defending against set-pieces, would help, but I'm sure SCP will be on to that tomorrow on the training ground (I'm assuming the promised Thursday off has now been scrapped after last night...)
Jackson was marking him, but the lad out jumped him.
That's the frustrating thing as that isn't really the case, despite it seeming that way.
Top 6 at mo:
1 Brighton 28 56
2 Bournemouth 30 53
3 Huddersfield 29 50
4 Southampton 28 48
5 Charlton 28 47
6 Peterborough 29 46
Top 6 at this point last year
1 Norwich 30 63
2 Leeds 28 61
3. Charlton 30 57
4. Colchester 28 52
5. Millwall 29 49
6. Swindon 27 49
The mark is marginally closer this season, had we replicated last season's results up to now we would be sitting top with a nice cushion from 3rd place
But although we were arguably better placed this time last year, paradoxically I think we have a better chance of automatics this time around.
This time last year I think we all assumed (correctly) that Norwich and Leeds would go up and our realistic best hope was play-offs.
This year, I think we all expect Brighton to go up, but nobody expects Bournemouth to finish in second place, so one automatic place is still wide open and almost certainly between us, Soton and Huddersfield.
Its a good game to play but the points total in may will be the one that counts.
This time last season we slumped which is when we lost promotion lies and damn lies
All very much in our hands if we want 2nd, but we really need to start games well, which we haven't done since god knows when.
And whoever thinks we are no different to when Parky was here... your crazy!
The big matches are going to be Saints home and away.
Not forgetting all the teams around us have to play each other, this Sat we have:
Bournemouth v Huddersfield
Rochdale v Southampton
And Hartlepool are at home to the MK Dons
The big matches are going to be Saints home and away.[/quote]
Not forgetting all the teams around us have to play each other, this Sat we have:
Bournemouth v Huddersfield
Rochdale v Southampton
And Hartlepool are at home to the MK Dons[/quote]
Good point.
Looking at the league table the first signs of a gap opening between the top few clubs and also rans is showing.
Consistency from here on is what we need and I'd take another 12 points from 15 if offered it, a shame to lose last night, but we can't win every match.
Success breeds success, compare with the lack of confidence flooding through the team in the matches prior to Parky getting the sack. Twice we played against ten men and twice we held on for a draw, then squandered a one-nil lead at home to a Swindon side with one of the poorest away records in L1.
For around a month we looked inept, shorn of confidence, error prone and just plain unhappy as a team. Things are going in the right direction, I'd still like a loanee or two to reinforce the defence though.
I understand what you are saying and perhaps we have been a bit lucky since CP took over, however as BFR says success breeds success, there does appear to be a new confidence showing in the team and 12/15 is a decent return. I also agree however that we are 2/3 players short in 'key' areas and I think its important to, if possible, add to the squad (especially as injuries now seem to be coming thick and fast).
In my mind the most telling part of CP's tenure to date will be to see how the starting 11 on saturday respond to the defeat and, hopefully, a very large and noisy home crowd, especially in the first half. We need CP to get the team 'up and at em' from the first whistle, and if by then we may have added 1 or 2 to the squad then I believe we have the squad to get us out of this league this year.
One defeat is not the end of the world, it may just be, as I said earlier in this thread, the opportunity to chnage things slightly and for the better.
Plusses?
Abbott: great game worked his socks off linked up well and caused problems.
Dailly: best game for ages ditto for doc.
Jenkinson: came on looked composed not afraid to battle.
Negatives:
Fry: worst game for us
Mac: just don't see what he adds.
Midfield: overrun again. Please come back racon.
Reid: all he had to do in injury time was put a decent corner in. All he could do was hit the side netting. Bloody furious.
This defeat could actually turn out to be a good thing if we get the right reaction - starting on Saturday or could be the end of SCP's honeymoon period. If we scrape through every game like we have been doing, we will inevitably end up losing a few and the trick is to have more of the dominating performances, where we are clearly the better team. We could of course lose a few of those, but it puts the odds in our favour of winning. One think you can't rely on is luck. I can accept losing to Hartlepool but find it more difficult to deservedly losing if you know what I mean.
Unfortunately we are a scalp, every team that plays us will be as up for it as they can be, and teams will play to their strengths (as Sheffield Wednesday are finding). But we have greater resources and should make these prevail. I'm sure SCP will know what areas he needs improvement in and we may see these adressed shortly within the emergency loan window so we all need to keep the faith. A win on Saturday and things will be looking brighter.
Fry has worried me for a while - he doesn't fill me with confidence and hopefully Bessone will be back for Saturday.
JJ does a lot, much of it off the ball, so it doesn't get noticed.