[cite]Posted By: O-Randy-Hunt[/cite]im not buying the whole 'media concentrate on them more' thing. Load of ballacks that is
We'll see how many pages the papers devote to the all the violence, seats being ripped out, flares being thrown etc at the WBA v Wolves game today then.
Not seen much in the papers today or on the news about this either:
Kicked off big time. If only they'd thrown 3 plastic bottles it may have made every paper and news channel.
Why do you try and partially defend your own clubs actions by bringing other clubs into it. We're talking about your lot, not them.
I'm sure you lot will be in the papers again over the next few weeks as well, your next 4 home games are:
Forest
QPR
Cardiff
Leeds
Bet your lot are wetting themselves at that little lot coming down.
Falconwood / Chris - take the time to understand the posts that I replied to and you'll see I'm not using other clubs actions to justify ours. In fact I think I said they are wallies and doesn't do us any favours.
& yes Chris, Forest, QPR, Leeds & Cardiff coming up, can't wait, brilliant Championship top of the table games, with decent away support, plenty of noise & hostility.
I'm sure you'd look forward to those games as well.
No doubt they will get away with it as they always do. Anything less than a HUGE fine and points deduction will be the usual cop out by the authorities who also basically let them off
[cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]but you shouldnt be trying to justify your clubs actions. It aint on, whether 4 or 5 other clubs are doing it or not.
I have no like for Millwall but come on, in the real world... a points deduction for throwing a few plastic beer bottles on the pitch - they may have a charge sheet as long as your arm but that isn't how the incident will be looked at.
If Villa weren't touched for throwing a flare into Birmingham fans and ripping out seats at St Andrews and Birmingham weren't for having 100's on the pitch throwing everything back and trying to break through then Millwall will just get a slap on the wrist.
[cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]but you shouldnt be trying to justify your clubs actions. It aint on, whether 4 or 5 other clubs are doing it or not.
One of my best mates is a Millwall fan and one the most sensible human beings on the entire planet. What worries me is the stereo-typing of fans by the behaviour of some.
Of course there is the history. As a boy growing up in the 1960s, my Dad would tell me about the rivalry with Millwall. He told me that even when he was a boy in the early 1930s, if you went to see Charlton play Millwall, you kept your mouth shut. I watched the Panorama documentary recently about F Troup, Harry the Dog etc and clearly, those of us who have been around for a while know that Millwall was a magnet for people who went for a rucking.
I have no doubt there is a bit of the "no one likes us we don't care" tribal mentality about all Millwall fans, even my mate. That is the historical context. How do they ever shrug that off? I know its hard because my mate tells me that they are a trophy target for other club yobs to have a go.
Millwall have worked extremely hard to stop all this nonsense. I believe, in the main, there isn't much that goes on inside the New Den these days. What seems to happen is that when there is a big game, often away from home, the semi-retired firm comes out in force and thats where you get the main flash points.
I was interested in Seth Plumbs questions to SLL but they are loaded ones. I think pretty much every Charlton fan would prefer our way than those of the Lions. I suspect that most decent Lions fans like SLL and my mate would prefer the focus was not on the violent past and the negativity surrounding the club in consequence of that. I am not sure that they would want everything we have because we have a different set of experiences as fans and we all relate to our own clubs through those experiences.
Millwall FC have over decades fought to try to clean the name of their football club up. I have no doubt that is true(tru-ish) and im sure it can be seen by the membership scheme they put in place which cost them a huge amount of lost revenue. But and its the whole point -----------who actually sells the shirts /stickers/etc with"no one likes us" ? who sells all the gear with" we fear no foe" ---------------o dear o dear yes its the same club trying to clean this image up.
Enough of all this old crap about the media is to blame ---blah naffing blah-------the club dont want em blah blah blah-----------i know a fluffy millwaal fan and he/she/it is ok blah blah blah ---------------------total crock of horse shit-------------they wont change ----thats THEY WONT CHANGE------they totaly love it--------------------actually glorify in it.
I dont wanna know how they do-----------or what they do--------East London club and should be shipped over there. I do care when we play them because like a rabid dog u cant turn your back on it/them.
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]One of my best mates is a Millwall fan and one the most sensible human beings on the entire planet. What worries me is the stereo-typing of fans by the behaviour of some.
Of course there is the history. As a boy growing up in the 1960s, my Dad would tell me about the rivalry with Millwall. He told me that even when he was a boy in the early 1930s, if you went to see Charlton play Millwall, you kept your mouth shut. I watched the Panorama documentary recently about F Troup, Harry the Dog etc and clearly, those of us who have been around for a while know that Millwall was a magnet for people who went for a rucking.
I have no doubt there is a bit of the "no one likes us we don't care" tribal mentality about all Millwall fans, even my mate. That is the historical context. How do they ever shrug that off? I know its hard because my mate tells me that they are a trophy target for other club yobs to have a go.
Millwall have worked extremely hard to stop all this nonsense. I believe, in the main, there isn't much that goes on inside the New Den these days. What seems to happen is that when there is a big game, often away from home, the semi-retired firm comes out in force and thats where you get the main flash points.
I was interested in Seth Plumbs questions to SLL but they are loaded ones. I think pretty much every Charlton fan would prefer our way than those of the Lions. I suspect that most decent Lions fans like SLL and my mate would prefer the focus was not on the violent past and the negativity surrounding the club in consequence of that. I am not sure that they would want everything we have because we have a different set of experiences as fans and we all relate to our own clubs through those experiences.
Good post, and yes my questions were loaded, but quite relevant. My father alternated Millwall and Charlton...and indeed I know some Millwall fans who I am proud to know, and are simply brilliant (I also know Palace fans like that too!).
What we have going on is that Charlton fans would like to have a bit of the Millwall roaring vocal support which is such a thrill to being a Millwall fan, and Millwall despise us because we don't muster it every game (however we can get pretty good on occasion). I suspect that Millwall fans might like some of our approach to how we have helped our club grow and develop, however there are probably some Millwall fans who are in there making a difference for the Lions.
Millwall trade on 'passion', and nobody should be suprised that passion demanded overspills...as it does with some Charlton fans too. What I fail to understand is that the Millwall mentality of loving doing the opposition both on and off the pitch, sometimes violently, ultimately hits Millwall with lower attendances and less income.
At the moment Millwall fans can point and laugh that out bigger gates still see us in a lower division compared to them, but in the long run Charlton are stronger because all support is welcomed, and we try not to alienate.
Going to Millwall away holds no fear for me personally, but there is no pleasure in it either...and it is nothing to do with the consistent crap results we get. You have to plan getting there, getting in, and getting away like a military operation, and you also don't really want to expose young family members to potential risk. I don't feel this way at other places, like it or not my reality is the reality for many others (maybe even some erstwhile Millwall fans). The result is Millwall don't get my dosh...but others do.
I realise of course what I have written, if it is some kind of feedback to Millwall, doesn't matter because they simply 'don't care'.
If Millwall were not there, we would have more violent idiots at The Valley, so long may they continue to pander to the stereotypical herberts and welcome their support.
Some interesting points. To be honest I could be here all day agreeing with some points, putting forward differing views on others and so on & so forth.
There are some deeply entrenched stereotypical views that are obviously brought about by a mixture of fact & fiction. But then you get that with everything. Some views of us are true, some are not.
Seth your questions are interesting, the answers to which you probably wouldn't like and we'd end up creating a thread where the slightly more immature sling insults and abuse, so pretty pointless me answering!!
[cite]Posted By: Algarveaddick[/cite]If Millwall were not there, we would have more violent idiots at The Valley, so long may they continue to pander to the stereotypical herberts and welcome their support.
Would love to know how many teenagers across SE London & Kent actually decided to ditch their childhood teams and follow Millwall instead just for the off chance of being confronted outside Elland Road by a thick set northerner and getting a slap.
There are much easier & cheaper ways to have a row than going up & down the country for the football.
Teenagers, who mentioned teenagers? They pick up on Millwall as young kids, because they think being associated with the tough guys will enhance their standing among other kids SSL. Similar to those that feel the need to attach themselves to a glory club, because in their minds it makes them a winner too...
[cite]Posted By: Algarveaddick[/cite]If Millwall were not there, we would have more violent idiots at The Valley, so long may they continue to pander to the stereotypical herberts and welcome their support.
Would love to know how many teenagers across SE London & Kent actually decided to ditch their childhood teams and follow Millwall instead just for the off chance of being confronted outside Elland Road by a thick set northerner and getting a slap.
There are much easier & cheaper ways to have a row than going up & down the country for the football.
I can give you two idiots who I was at school with, who had absolutley no interest in football and probably didn't even know what a football looked like. All of a sudden, after leaving school they decided they were massive Millwall fans. And yes, these guys could not fit more into the Millwall stereotype mould if they tried. They're Millwall for one reason, and one reason only, and I bet they couldn't name most of the squad. That's the problem you've got. Too many idiots attaching themselves to your club because of the reputation. You'll never shake it.
[cite]Posted By: Algarveaddick[/cite]Teenagers, who mentioned teenagers? They pick up on Millwall as young kids, because they think being associated with the tough guys will enhance their standing among other kids SSL. Similar to those that feel the need to attach themselves to a glory club, because in their minds it makes them a winner too...
You saying 5-12 year olds?
What, who at that age read the papers and know that Millwall has this reputation & then decides to follow them? Despite not being old enough or having the money to take themselves along?
[cite]
I can give you two idiots who I was at school with, who had absolutley no interest in football and probably didn't even know what a football looked like. All of a sudden, after leaving school they decided they were massive Millwall fans. And yes, these guys could not fit more into the Millwall stereotype mould if they tried. They're Millwall for one reason, and one reason only, and I bet they couldn't name most of the squad. That's the problem you've got. Too many idiots attaching themselves to your club because of the reputation. You'll never shake it.
I know a few people that support them for that reason too. They're not very intelligent to be fair but I suppose you get the same at every club.
The issue is with Millwall that it has always been proportionately higher than at the vast majority, if not all, other clubs.
The problem therefore is cyclical. For whatever reason they started off with a higher ratio of violent supporters or supporters willing to be violent if the situation dictated such... therefore they attracted higher numbers of people in that category due to the image they carved out for themselves.
[cite]Posted By: Algarveaddick[/cite]If Millwall were not there, we would have more violent idiots at The Valley, so long may they continue to pander to the stereotypical herberts and welcome their support.
Would love to know how many teenagers across SE London & Kent actually decided to ditch their childhood teams and follow Millwall instead just for the off chance of being confronted outside Elland Road by a thick set northerner and getting a slap.
There are much easier & cheaper ways to have a row than going up & down the country for the football.
Amazed by the naivity of that post. Obviously too close to the problem to even see it.
[cite]Posted By: Algarveaddick[/cite]If Millwall were not there, we would have more violent idiots at The Valley, so long may they continue to pander to the stereotypical herberts and welcome their support.
Would love to know how many teenagers across SE London & Kent actually decided to ditch their childhood teams and follow Millwall instead just for the off chance of being confronted outside Elland Road by a thick set northerner and getting a slap.
There are much easier & cheaper ways to have a row than going up & down the country for the football.
Amazed by the naivity of that post. Obviously too close to the problem to even see it.
Clearly. You obviously know a bigger cross section of the support than I do.
[cite]Posted By: JimboCAFC[/cite]anyone remember the trouble at Upton Park? got highlighted by the media for a longtime and who remembers the trouble between Villa and Birmingham... Decemeber 1st, it got one or two days media coverage and to be fair the images was far worst. Millwall get wrongly and unfairly targeted by the media when trouble occurs.
Ok, who holds the record for the worst violence or should I say riots seen by the TV cameras by any club....here's a clue...? -v- Luton and ? -v- Birmingham?
I think its generally acknowledged that Millwall's reputation is just that now - a reputation - i'm not into that scene but apparently they aren't very good at it any more and nothing winds a Millwall fan up more than thinking they are no longer good at the one thing they were famous for. Admit it Sparrows, you're getting a bit agitated.
[cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]I think its generally acknowledged that Millwall's reputation is just that now - a reputation - i'm not into that scene but apparently they aren't very good at it any more and nothing winds a Millwall fan up more than thinking they are no longer good at the one thing they were famous for. Admit it Sparrows, you're getting a bit agitated.
To be fair Sparrows has never came on here and gave it the 'big un'
Comments
Why do you try and partially defend your own clubs actions by bringing other clubs into it. We're talking about your lot, not them.
I'm sure you lot will be in the papers again over the next few weeks as well, your next 4 home games are:
Forest
QPR
Cardiff
Leeds
Bet your lot are wetting themselves at that little lot coming down.
& yes Chris, Forest, QPR, Leeds & Cardiff coming up, can't wait, brilliant Championship top of the table games, with decent away support, plenty of noise & hostility.
I'm sure you'd look forward to those games as well.
Anything less than a HUGE fine and points deduction will be the usual cop out by the authorities who also basically let them off
Who is trying to justify it?
I have no like for Millwall but come on, in the real world... a points deduction for throwing a few plastic beer bottles on the pitch - they may have a charge sheet as long as your arm but that isn't how the incident will be looked at.
If Villa weren't touched for throwing a flare into Birmingham fans and ripping out seats at St Andrews and Birmingham weren't for having 100's on the pitch throwing everything back and trying to break through then Millwall will just get a slap on the wrist.
i just re-read your post, my mistake.
Of course there is the history. As a boy growing up in the 1960s, my Dad would tell me about the rivalry with Millwall. He told me that even when he was a boy in the early 1930s, if you went to see Charlton play Millwall, you kept your mouth shut. I watched the Panorama documentary recently about F Troup, Harry the Dog etc and clearly, those of us who have been around for a while know that Millwall was a magnet for people who went for a rucking.
I have no doubt there is a bit of the "no one likes us we don't care" tribal mentality about all Millwall fans, even my mate. That is the historical context. How do they ever shrug that off? I know its hard because my mate tells me that they are a trophy target for other club yobs to have a go.
Millwall have worked extremely hard to stop all this nonsense. I believe, in the main, there isn't much that goes on inside the New Den these days. What seems to happen is that when there is a big game, often away from home, the semi-retired firm comes out in force and thats where you get the main flash points.
I was interested in Seth Plumbs questions to SLL but they are loaded ones. I think pretty much every Charlton fan would prefer our way than those of the Lions. I suspect that most decent Lions fans like SLL and my mate would prefer the focus was not on the violent past and the negativity surrounding the club in consequence of that. I am not sure that they would want everything we have because we have a different set of experiences as fans and we all relate to our own clubs through those experiences.
Enough of all this old crap about the media is to blame ---blah naffing blah-------the club dont want em blah blah blah-----------i know a fluffy millwaal fan and he/she/it is ok blah blah blah ---------------------total crock of horse shit-------------they wont change ----thats THEY WONT CHANGE------they totaly love it--------------------actually glorify in it.
I dont wanna know how they do-----------or what they do--------East London club and should be shipped over there. I do care when we play them because like a rabid dog u cant turn your back on it/them.
Good post, and yes my questions were loaded, but quite relevant. My father alternated Millwall and Charlton...and indeed I know some Millwall fans who I am proud to know, and are simply brilliant (I also know Palace fans like that too!).
What we have going on is that Charlton fans would like to have a bit of the Millwall roaring vocal support which is such a thrill to being a Millwall fan, and Millwall despise us because we don't muster it every game (however we can get pretty good on occasion). I suspect that Millwall fans might like some of our approach to how we have helped our club grow and develop, however there are probably some Millwall fans who are in there making a difference for the Lions.
Millwall trade on 'passion', and nobody should be suprised that passion demanded overspills...as it does with some Charlton fans too. What I fail to understand is that the Millwall mentality of loving doing the opposition both on and off the pitch, sometimes violently, ultimately hits Millwall with lower attendances and less income.
At the moment Millwall fans can point and laugh that out bigger gates still see us in a lower division compared to them, but in the long run Charlton are stronger because all support is welcomed, and we try not to alienate.
Going to Millwall away holds no fear for me personally, but there is no pleasure in it either...and it is nothing to do with the consistent crap results we get. You have to plan getting there, getting in, and getting away like a military operation, and you also don't really want to expose young family members to potential risk. I don't feel this way at other places, like it or not my reality is the reality for many others (maybe even some erstwhile Millwall fans). The result is Millwall don't get my dosh...but others do.
I realise of course what I have written, if it is some kind of feedback to Millwall, doesn't matter because they simply 'don't care'.
There are some deeply entrenched stereotypical views that are obviously brought about by a mixture of fact & fiction. But then you get that with everything. Some views of us are true, some are not.
Seth your questions are interesting, the answers to which you probably wouldn't like and we'd end up creating a thread where the slightly more immature sling insults and abuse, so pretty pointless me answering!!
Would love to know how many teenagers across SE London & Kent actually decided to ditch their childhood teams and follow Millwall instead just for the off chance of being confronted outside Elland Road by a thick set northerner and getting a slap.
There are much easier & cheaper ways to have a row than going up & down the country for the football.
You saying 5-12 year olds?
What, who at that age read the papers and know that Millwall has this reputation & then decides to follow them? Despite not being old enough or having the money to take themselves along?
How many kids do you this has happened to?
I know a few people that support them for that reason too. They're not very intelligent to be fair but I suppose you get the same at every club.
The issue is with Millwall that it has always been proportionately higher than at the vast majority, if not all, other clubs.
The problem therefore is cyclical. For whatever reason they started off with a higher ratio of violent supporters or supporters willing to be violent if the situation dictated such... therefore they attracted higher numbers of people in that category due to the image they carved out for themselves.
Amazed by the naivity of that post. Obviously too close to the problem to even see it.
Clearly. You obviously know a bigger cross section of the support than I do.
A bit of wit amongst a sea of prejudice....
The police were looking for 200 hundred boro on sat. Dont know if they found them.
Ok, who holds the record for the worst violence or should I say riots seen by the TV cameras by any club....here's a clue...? -v- Luton and ? -v- Birmingham?
http://noonelikesus.webs.com/diectionsmillwallstorys.htm
To be fair Sparrows has never came on here and gave it the 'big un'