May I ask you a question - if a friend who supported an opposing side asked you whether it was safe and pleasant to bring his children to watch his side playing at Millwall what would you say? I have asked other sensible Millwall fans (yes they do exist) the same question and there answer has always been no in the past. Fortunately, I do not have the same problem at Charlton.
I don't think it would be a safe or pleasant experience to bring children to watch Charlton and sit in or near the upper North Stand where they would have to listen to the vitriol that is often hurled at the Charlton players and staff and that sick 'your mother is your sister' chant. As for taking them to away matches, where the hard core Charlton support is more concentrated and I have heard all too frequently racist and facist chants from Charlton fans, no chance in my opinion.
After the incident with the lady sitting in the lower North Stand been hit by a coin thrown from the North Upper and taken to hospital with a serious head wound I don't think I would be too keen on taking family memebers to sit in the lower North Stand either.
Millwall have a minority thugish following but so do we. Their minority is bigger than ours but I don't think we are in a position to judge them every time there is an incident.
Have to agree with a lot of this, and away at Colchester when some of our fans chanted at Mooney that he is a c**t, I was embarassed and tried to shout them down. At Charlton we should not glory in the behaviour of the lumpen, excuse it as 'banter', or excuse violence as 'their tasty geezers against our tasty geezers', but we should stand up against it.
[cite]Posted By: Jayajosh[/cite]Ok, who holds the record for the worst violence or should I say riots seen by the TV cameras by any club....here's a clue...? -v- Luton and ? -v- Birmingham?
Maybe you are too young to remember or have just forgotten but I would suggest you research the Heysel disaster when 32 Juventus fans were killed as a result of the actions of the Liverpool hooligans!
[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]SLL is a regular here, and has input that personally I welcome. however SLL, to refer to just one question I asked earlier in the thread, do you think that Millwall suffer financially from what goes on/or is reported/or their reputation? If you do think as I do that less money comes in because people steer clear, is there a way of overcoming that?
Seth, of course we suffer. From a wide array of sources.
Advertising revenues will be less.
Sponsorship revenues will be less.
Neutrals and fans that are undecided are less likely to follow Millwall due to the reputation (some is deserved, some is overblown)
Occasionally players will be put off from coming (but many ex-players do genuinely love the noise/atmosphere that is created at the club)
We get smaller away followings coming due to the fear of trouble.
We have less chance of attracting big investors.
Obviously pay for higher police costs inside the ground.
We have invested heavily in cctv, policing, anti-racism measures (I never really thought racism has been a big problem at The Den, there are racist comments, mainly meant to be "banter/football abuse" but you'd be surprised at the mix of fans we actually have) so that's drained us.
We've had to pay more legal fees, such as the ridiculous charges the FA brought against us after the west ham game.
To overcome it, you'd need to change peoples perceptions. & let's be honest, we've done a few things over the years that stick in peoples minds! I'd still maintain that other clubs aren't as highlighted in the media as ourselves and that reinforces peoples negative views even more. But really, unless you come looking for trouble you won't get it. Convincing people is a different matter though.
Millwall "supporters" have always been trouble and unfortunately they probably always will be. Millwall attract that type of support both for them and from opposition "supporters" wherever they play.They generally revel in it. It's all they have and aspire to.
One of my Millwall supporting mates tells me it's not much differnt to the 70's. Away fans still take a battering, even Yeovil's "family" fans, some of the nicest supporters I've ever met got a good hiding there last season he tells me.
[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]SLL is a regular here, and has input that personally I welcome. however SLL, to refer to just one question I asked earlier in the thread, do you think that Millwall suffer financially from what goes on/or is reported/or their reputation? If you do think as I do that less money comes in because people steer clear, is there a way of overcoming that?
Seth, of course we suffer. From a wide array of sources.
Advertising revenues will be less.
Sponsorship revenues will be less.
Neutrals and fans that are undecided are less likely to follow Millwall due to the reputation (some is deserved, some is overblown)
Occasionally players will be put off from coming (but many ex-players do genuinely love the noise/atmosphere that is created at the club)
We get smaller away followings coming due to the fear of trouble.
We have less chance of attracting big investors.
Obviously pay for higher police costs inside the ground.
We have invested heavily in cctv, policing, anti-racism measures (I never really thought racism has been a big problem at The Den, there are racist comments, mainly meant to be "banter/football abuse" but you'd be surprised at the mix of fans we actually have) so that's drained us.
We've had to pay more legal fees, such as the ridiculous charges the FA brought against us after the west ham game.
To overcome it, you'd need to change peoples perceptions. & let's be honest, we've done a few things over the years that stick in peoples minds! I'd still maintain that other clubs aren't as highlighted in the media as ourselves and that reinforces peoples negative views even more. But really, unless you come looking for trouble you won't get it. Convincing people is a different matter though.
Great comprehensive answer...now the tough bit, I am suggesting that the solution is in Millwall fans changing the mindset of other Millwall fans. Looking at a Millwall forum thread where it appears to me a Lions fan who thinks the bottle throwers should be punished is berated by some other Lions fans because the bottles were only plastic and not glass, makes me realise what a tough task that is. However I reckon the Millwall fan who is prepared to stand up and condemn actions that reflect badly on Millwall is to be praised and supported, I would hope to see more and more Millwall fans stand up to the idiots that sully the club with their actions.
If the result at the Den last season between us had gone the opposite way with the home team suffering a 4-0 defeat, then regardless of if you was looking for trouble or not, you would have found it. I appreciate that they are trying to remove the possibility of violence (locking supporters in after the game, purpose built chicken run back to station), but if they were that friendly, why the need for either? On the flipside, fantastic atmosphere (when the occasion arises), and terrace humour second to none. That part of there support would be welcome at Charlton, rather than some of the miserable sods I have endured over the years.
defending this lot is a joke-----you cant be true CAFC and defend these ****s.
A dog that bits one person maybe ok, a dog that keeps biting gets put down, and a dog that goes mental and bites f**kin everyone gets shot. Arm anyone that has ever been on the wrong side of their bollox with a pump action shot gun and make them stewards for the day !!! only time there would be 24,000 stewards and 5,000 "no one likes us---fluffy nice people"
Yes and before hand he clearly points out there's a difference between 'Casuals' and normal fans.
That walkway was mainly designed to stop organised gangs from both the home and away sides 'going at it'. If you read any of the reports of the Brum riot in 01/02 the police clearly state that 400 risk supporters from the midlands were trying to break out the ground at the same time. A fair few of the reports also mention other rival clubs doing the same around that time period.
He pointed out that if you don't go looking for trouble the chances are you won't get it. A ground can still have a hostile atmosphere without innocent fans taking a hiding. Although saying that someone above has mentioned his Yeovil friend having a bad experience.
I'd agree with him in the respect that Stoke, Cardiff etc are just as bad places to go, yet receive nowhere near the same levels of coverage.
[cite]Posted By: Man_About_Town[/cite]Every Club does not have a violent element (ISLS).
Please don't confuse fans 'passion' with violence.
[cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite]
Don't be naive of course they do. Which ones don't then?
Go and look at the arrests for violent offences and banning statistics from the Home Office.
Of the 92 clubs there are probably about a handful who barely register.
What differs is the proportion.
[cite]Posted By: Man_About_Town[/cite]
It's all relative, but I meant VIOLENT, anyway, you've proven my point with the ones that play handbags and barely register.
There are three clubs in the 92 who do not currently have a single banning order.
There are two clubs (incidentally two different clubs) that had no supporters arrested last season (09/10).
There are six clubs who had no arrests for disorder last season (09/10).
Are you really going to split hairs for just 2% or 6% to have a dig at Millwall?
As PalaceHater says there are plenty of places I've felt more intimidated or more likely that it's going to turn than at Millwall... Cardiff, Leeds, Birmingham
God help any of you that go to watch a game abroad
[cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]to be fair our visit last year was pretty tame apart from the OB making a complete meal out of us trying to leave the ground.
If we had nicked a 1-0 win then it might have been a different story.
[quote][cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Man_About_Town[/cite]Every Club does not have a violent element (ISLS). Please don't confuse fans 'passion' with violence.[/quote] [quote][cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite] Don't be naive of course they do. Which ones don't then? Go and look at the arrests for violent offences and banning statistics from the Home Office. Of the 92 clubs there are probably about a handful who barely register. What differs is the proportion.[/quote] [quote][cite]Posted By: Man_About_Town[/cite] It's all relative, but I meant VIOLENT, anyway, you've proven my point with the ones that play handbags and barely register.[/quote]
There are three clubs in the 92 who do not currently have a single banning order.
There are two clubs (incidentally two different clubs) that had no supporters arrested last season (09/10).
There are six clubs who had no arrests for disorder last season (09/10).
Are you really going to split hairs for just 2% or 6% to have a dig at Millwall?
As PalaceHater says there are plenty of places I've felt more intimidated or more likely that it's going to turn than at Millwall... Cardiff, Leeds, Birmingham
God help any of you that go to watch a game abroad[/quote] ISLS you stated that every Club has a violemt element. I stated they did not. The stats you came up with prove me correct........there's no splitting any hairs. I don't need those stats to have a dig at Millwall........they do it to themselves EVERY season and they carry the 'nobody like us' badge with pride and ensure the chant is also true.
"No-one likes us, we don't care"
"We fear no foe"
"Let them all come down to The Den"
If you portray yourselves that way then, in my view, you've got no real defence if someone reports bad things that have happened in the media - and they HAVE happened, the question of whether they also happen elsewhere is surely irrelevant?
Jeez, it's a bit like Jordan demanding that her privacy is respected!
However, fair play to SLL for coming on here and mounting a spirited defence of his club. I do think he's missed the point a bit and that, like a lot of Millwall fans, he's got a bit of that "everyone's against us so they can all f*ck off" attitude, but maybe that is inevitable when your club is pretty much despised by a lot of people in the game.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]defending this lot is a joke
you cant be true CAFC and defend these ****s.
Well said sir
EXACTLY!!!!
It's comical enough watching SLL trying to stick up for his tin pot club.
But the whole point of chosing CAFC over the windmill is that you are not scum.
Everyone involved with these morons have the same view- and that is too go to footy in hope of a tear up.
Jacky's changed his tune. he almost thank them after the boro game for making the toolbox a passionate place - although he did say he didnt condone it which meant he was ok saying it
I suppose he didn't see the coins thrown onto the pitch and into the family enclosure either. At least the millwall fans can be pleased they left one young boy seeing stars, after being hit by a seat. And they wonder why no-one likes them..
HornetJJ, Watford says...
12:46pm Tue 8 Mar 11
That'll do it Kenny. I can't see them acting like thugs anymore! How about the Football League get involved and make Milwall play behing closed doors and ban them from travelling to away grounds. If they want to behave like animals, treat them like animals!
For the record it was bottles, coins, seats and whatever else they could launch!
im guessing that young boy started it by throwing his seat into the millwall end, and all the kids and parents in the familey enclosure joined in.
Spanner mate who was at Watford said Graham gave the old cant hear you sign after he scored and was then pelted the next time they took a corner....even he said he couldn't believe it after the Boro game.
Tonight vs QPR should be another evening of fun....
[cite]Posted By: falconwood_1[/cite]Spanner mate who was at Watford said Graham gave the old cant hear you sign after he scored and was then pelted the next time they took a corner....even he said he couldn't believe it after the Boro game.
Tonight vs QPR should be another evening of fun....
If you don’t have the emotional maturity to deal with someone putting their hand to their ear then I’m not sure you should be allowed out unsupervised. I often wonder how these people function in daily life. Today my train was cancelled and I forgot my phone. I was a bit p*ssed off, but I wonder how a man who reacts to a simple hand gesture by throwing his own possessions and wealth at the “offender” would deal with every day inconveniences.
[cite]Posted By: falconwood_1[/cite]Spanner mate who was at Watford said Graham gave the old cant hear you sign after he scored and was then pelted the next time they took a corner....even he said he couldn't believe it after the Boro game.
Tonight vs QPR should be another evening of fun....
If you don’t have the emotional maturity to deal with someone putting their hand to their ear then I’m not sure you should be allowed out unsupervised. I often wonder how these people function in daily life. Today my train was cancelled and I forgot my phone. I was a bit p*ssed off, but I wonder how a man who reacts to a simple hand gesture by throwing his own possessions and wealth at the “offender” would deal with every day inconveniences.
Great post mate. I guess it's to show off in front of their mates, no doubt they wouldn't act that way alone. Can you get more cowardly than throwing something at someone?
Comments
Have to agree with a lot of this, and away at Colchester when some of our fans chanted at Mooney that he is a c**t, I was embarassed and tried to shout them down. At Charlton we should not glory in the behaviour of the lumpen, excuse it as 'banter', or excuse violence as 'their tasty geezers against our tasty geezers', but we should stand up against it.
Maybe you are too young to remember or have just forgotten but I would suggest you research the Heysel disaster when 32 Juventus fans were killed as a result of the actions of the Liverpool hooligans!
Seth, of course we suffer. From a wide array of sources.
Advertising revenues will be less.
Sponsorship revenues will be less.
Neutrals and fans that are undecided are less likely to follow Millwall due to the reputation (some is deserved, some is overblown)
Occasionally players will be put off from coming (but many ex-players do genuinely love the noise/atmosphere that is created at the club)
We get smaller away followings coming due to the fear of trouble.
We have less chance of attracting big investors.
Obviously pay for higher police costs inside the ground.
We have invested heavily in cctv, policing, anti-racism measures (I never really thought racism has been a big problem at The Den, there are racist comments, mainly meant to be "banter/football abuse" but you'd be surprised at the mix of fans we actually have) so that's drained us.
We've had to pay more legal fees, such as the ridiculous charges the FA brought against us after the west ham game.
To overcome it, you'd need to change peoples perceptions. & let's be honest, we've done a few things over the years that stick in peoples minds! I'd still maintain that other clubs aren't as highlighted in the media as ourselves and that reinforces peoples negative views even more. But really, unless you come looking for trouble you won't get it. Convincing people is a different matter though.
One of my Millwall supporting mates tells me it's not much differnt to the 70's. Away fans still take a battering, even Yeovil's "family" fans, some of the nicest supporters I've ever met got a good hiding there last season he tells me.
Great comprehensive answer...now the tough bit, I am suggesting that the solution is in Millwall fans changing the mindset of other Millwall fans. Looking at a Millwall forum thread where it appears to me a Lions fan who thinks the bottle throwers should be punished is berated by some other Lions fans because the bottles were only plastic and not glass, makes me realise what a tough task that is. However I reckon the Millwall fan who is prepared to stand up and condemn actions that reflect badly on Millwall is to be praised and supported, I would hope to see more and more Millwall fans stand up to the idiots that sully the club with their actions.
I appreciate that they are trying to remove the possibility of violence (locking supporters in after the game, purpose built chicken run back to station), but if they were that friendly, why the need for either?
On the flipside, fantastic atmosphere (when the occasion arises), and terrace humour second to none.
That part of there support would be welcome at Charlton, rather than some of the miserable sods I have endured over the years.
No98 above.
A dog that bits one person maybe ok, a dog that keeps biting gets put down, and a dog that goes mental and bites f**kin everyone gets shot. Arm anyone that has ever been on the wrong side of their bollox with a pump action shot gun and make them stewards for the day !!! only time there would be 24,000 stewards and 5,000 "no one likes us---fluffy nice people"
That walkway was mainly designed to stop organised gangs from both the home and away sides 'going at it'. If you read any of the reports of the Brum riot in 01/02 the police clearly state that 400 risk supporters from the midlands were trying to break out the ground at the same time. A fair few of the reports also mention other rival clubs doing the same around that time period.
He pointed out that if you don't go looking for trouble the chances are you won't get it. A ground can still have a hostile atmosphere without innocent fans taking a hiding. Although saying that someone above has mentioned his Yeovil friend having a bad experience.
I'd agree with him in the respect that Stoke, Cardiff etc are just as bad places to go, yet receive nowhere near the same levels of coverage.
There are three clubs in the 92 who do not currently have a single banning order.
There are two clubs (incidentally two different clubs) that had no supporters arrested last season (09/10).
There are six clubs who had no arrests for disorder last season (09/10).
Are you really going to split hairs for just 2% or 6% to have a dig at Millwall?
As PalaceHater says there are plenty of places I've felt more intimidated or more likely that it's going to turn than at Millwall... Cardiff, Leeds, Birmingham
God help any of you that go to watch a game abroad
LOL!!!!!!! We came close!!
Please don't confuse fans 'passion' with violence.[/quote]
[quote][cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite]
Don't be naive of course they do. Which ones don't then?
Go and look at the arrests for violent offences and banning statistics from the Home Office.
Of the 92 clubs there are probably about a handful who barely register.
What differs is the proportion.[/quote]
[quote][cite]Posted By: Man_About_Town[/cite]
It's all relative, but I meant VIOLENT, anyway, you've proven my point with the ones that play handbags and barely register.[/quote]
There are three clubs in the 92 who do not currently have a single banning order.
There are two clubs (incidentally two different clubs) that had no supporters arrested last season (09/10).
There are six clubs who had no arrests for disorder last season (09/10).
Are you really going to split hairs for just 2% or 6% to have a dig at Millwall?
As PalaceHater says there are plenty of places I've felt more intimidated or more likely that it's going to turn than at Millwall... Cardiff, Leeds, Birmingham
God help any of you that go to watch a game abroad[/quote]
ISLS you stated that every Club has a violemt element. I stated they did not. The stats you came up with prove me correct........there's no splitting any hairs.
I don't need those stats to have a dig at Millwall........they do it to themselves EVERY season and they carry the 'nobody like us' badge with pride and ensure the chant is also true.
Every cloud has a silver lining eh
"We fear no foe"
"Let them all come down to The Den"
If you portray yourselves that way then, in my view, you've got no real defence if someone reports bad things that have happened in the media - and they HAVE happened, the question of whether they also happen elsewhere is surely irrelevant?
Jeez, it's a bit like Jordan demanding that her privacy is respected!
However, fair play to SLL for coming on here and mounting a spirited defence of his club. I do think he's missed the point a bit and that, like a lot of Millwall fans, he's got a bit of that "everyone's against us so they can all f*ck off" attitude, but maybe that is inevitable when your club is pretty much despised by a lot of people in the game.
Well said sir
EXACTLY!!!!
It's comical enough watching SLL trying to stick up for his tin pot club.
But the whole point of chosing CAFC over the windmill is that you are not scum.
Everyone involved with these morons have the same view- and that is too go to footy in hope of a tear up.
Bored in the chumpionship are you?
You must be if you find yourself back on here.
A hot dog was chucked at Paul Robinson last year at Colchester. Then a few punches were chucked at the hot dog thrower.
12:42pm Mon 7 Mar 11
I suppose he didn't see the coins thrown onto the pitch and into the family enclosure either. At least the millwall fans can be pleased they left one young boy seeing stars, after being hit by a seat. And they wonder why no-one likes them..
HornetJJ, Watford says...
12:46pm Tue 8 Mar 11
That'll do it Kenny. I can't see them acting like thugs anymore! How about the Football League get involved and make Milwall play behing closed doors and ban them from travelling to away grounds. If they want to behave like animals, treat them like animals!
For the record it was bottles, coins, seats and whatever else they could launch!
im guessing that young boy started it by throwing his seat into the millwall end, and all the kids and parents in the familey enclosure joined in.
how many slap on the wrist do this team want
Tonight vs QPR should be another evening of fun....
If you don’t have the emotional maturity to deal with someone putting their hand to their ear then I’m not sure you should be allowed out unsupervised. I often wonder how these people function in daily life. Today my train was cancelled and I forgot my phone. I was a bit p*ssed off, but I wonder how a man who reacts to a simple hand gesture by throwing his own possessions and wealth at the “offender” would deal with every day inconveniences.