[quote][cite]Posted By: cafcdan18[/cite]Fortune got done a couple of times for pace against Bristol Rovers and Walsall at The Valley.
Not ruling him out however as he has only really played alongside the Doc when Dailly has been injured/suspended, maybe with Dailly they would form a better partnership.[/quote]
Missed Walsal but don't remember that v Rovers.
Maybe the injury has taken it's toll or just not played enough games.
[cite]Posted By: Stone[/cite]As a full back maybe but not in the middle.
No good in the air.An interesting opinion. Very wrong but interesting nonetheless. Wins more than his fair share in the middle
No pace.Quicker than Dailly, Doc, Fry and Francis.
Watches the ball too much. (watch him for 5 minutes next game, never tracks runs, always watches the ball)Now I just think you are smoking crack. How is he such an excellent ball winner if he's never moving and just ball watching.
As someone else said, would see red before a handfull of games. Hmm - maybe
Just wanted to add a couple of comments to what you've stated re Semedo.
You think he'd win his share of headers against a 6' 2" centre forward? NO
Not sure he's quicker than any of those. Ever seen him sprint? NO
I never said he doesn't move. You just made that up. He does move, just follows the ball and ignores what's going on behind him
He can't head well enough to play alongside our other defenders, and is partial to a rash tackle, I'd prefer to see us play Fry at centre back, Bessone at left back (Jackson for now) and Racon in midfield with Semedo. People say they aren't creative enough but how much of a difference did Racon make when he came on? Just because he's not playing the final ball doesn't mean he's not creative, people read too much into official assists, they only take into account that last pass, which could be a 3 foot lay off after a defence splitting 30 yard through ball.
Worner Doherty Solly Reid McCormack Anyinsah Fortune or Benson (only if fit)
That way if we want to change it we have Jackson, Fry and Eccleston who can all play in a different role with relative ease, so Bringing on a centre back for a striker or a midfielder can actually be used as a positive substitution
Definitely don't want to see Semedo at centre back. His positional discipline is not great, and I think he'd end up trying to step out of defence too much to close players down.
[cite]Posted By: dabos[/cite]Definitely don't want to see Semedo at centre back. His positional discipline is not great, and I think he'd end up trying to step out of defence too much to close players down.
harsh to question his positional discipline when id imagine both PP & CP told semedo to go hunting down the ball. I think thats why racon looks so central all the time when he plays with semedo. Jose does all the doggy work. As a centre-half i think with an experinced player like Dailly keeping the reigns on him, he'd be decent. cant be a lot worse than doc.
[cite]Posted By: cafcdan18[/cite]Fortune got done a couple of times for pace against Bristol Rovers and Walsall at The Valley.
Not ruling him out however as he has only really played alongside the Doc when Dailly has been injured/suspended, maybe with Dailly they would form a better partnership.
Missed Walsal but don't remember that v Rovers.
Maybe the injury has taken it's toll or just not played enough games.
shame either way.
The Hoskins chance when he chipped over, sure Fortune had a head start and was done for pace.
Could be wrong, but hoping it is a lack of regular games. The most he has played in a row is 4 which possibly includes the game when he was taken off due to being unwell. A run in the side alongside Dailly who is quicker than the Doc and a better leader may help Fortune get back on track.
Can't remember Dailly and Fortune starting together?
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]Would love to see Semedo given a run at centre half, have done for a long time.
This ................................................ have been of the opinion for a long, long time that one of the main problems (especially at home) is finding a formation that Semedo fits into given the make up of the squad. He is an exceptional defensive midfield player, who lacks other attributes that are required in certain midfield formations. He would fit well into a 4-1-4-1 which we don't play or a 4-4-2 that plays a diamond midfield, this though requires the left & right of the diamond to tuck in and although this would allow them to get into the box, it restricts width. We don't play the diamond (squad make up has plenty of wide midfielders but few who can play tucked in) and we have always tried to play 4-4-2 with width, which doesn't suit Semedo. Central midfielders (i.e. the middle two) in a straight 4-4-2 need to be box-to-box which he isn't, they need to act as a pivot, be able to shift/dummy, run with the ball, play a killer pass, get on the end of things and be a forward threat, all of which he lacks. One other central midfielder can not do all of that on his own, he needs to have a play mate, who doesn't just concentrate on the defensive side of the game. Having Semedo in there all this time, not offering the other attributes required has for me been the major handicap for us for a long time. Time to get two in there who can play and use Semedo's excellent qualities in another area of the team that can also benefit.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]Would love to see Semedo given a run at centre half, have done for a long time.
This ................................................ have been of the opinion for a long, long time that one of the main problems (especially at home) is finding a formation that Semedo fits into given the make up of the squad. He is an exceptional defensive midfield player, who lacks other attributes that are required in certain midfield formations. He would fit well into a 4-1-4-1 which we don't play or a 4-4-2 that plays a diamond midfield, this though requires the left & right of the diamond to tuck in and although this would allow them to get into the box, it restricts width. We don't play the diamond (squad make up has plenty of wide midfielders but few who can play tucked in) and have always tried to play 4-4-2 with width, which doesn't suit Semedo. Central midfielders (i.e. the middle two) in a straight 4-4-2 need to be box-to-box which he isn't, they need to act as a pivot, be able to shift/dummy, run with the ball, play a killer pass, get on the end of things and be a forward threat, all of which he lacks. One other central midfielder can not do all of that on his own, he needs to have a play mate, who doesn't just concentrate on the defensive side of the game. Having Semedo in there all this time, not offering the other attributes required has for me been the a major handicap for us for a long time. Time to get two in there who can play and use Semedo's excellent qualities in another area of the team that can also benefit.
spot on - been saying it since the start of the season - to howls of derision from some but it's been the most important issue to be addressed since the start of the season so i make no apologies.
Is Semedo a significantly more limited footballer than Keith Jones was? I would say no and Jones is heralded as the unsung hero of the 97/98 play-off winning season, a side whihc played conventional 4-4-2 and was probably the most exciting attacking Charlton side of the last 20 years.
Difference is Jones was working alongside Robbo, Kins and Newts.
I doubt it - I do remember one game where he filled in at CB for the last few minutes and he looked very uncertain in the air. You would also have the problem as to who would then have the role of protecting the CBs and breaking up play in midfield, there are no other obvious contenders and our defence has always struggled when Semedo hasn't played.
[cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]Is Semedo a significantly more limited footballer than Keith Jones was? I would say no and Jones is heralded as the unsung hero of the 97/98 play-off winning season, a side whihc played conventional 4-4-2 and was probably the most exciting attacking Charlton side of the last 20 years.
Difference is Jones was working alongside Robbo, Kins and Newts.
IMHO - yes he is significantly more limited. KJ could find a pass, feed the wide men on a regualar basis, get forward (he has a far superior goal scoring record) and was certainly up and down the pitch (not just sit and hold), his ball retention was far superior and was therefore able to be initiate forward thinking football - Semedo struggles in these areas and is basically a "destroyer" for which he quite rightly receives rave reviews. It's what he doesn't do that is so very often overlooked.
Mark Kinsella has said on many occasions that KJ was the best central midfielder that he ever played alongside and suggested there was so much that he did, that he wasn't given credit for and was far from "limited" which Semedo clearly is as a central midfielder.
[cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]Is Semedo a significantly more limited footballer than Keith Jones was? I would say no and Jones is heralded as the unsung hero of the 97/98 play-off winning season, a side whihc played conventional 4-4-2 and was probably the most exciting attacking Charlton side of the last 20 years.
Difference is Jones was working alongside Robbo, Kins and Newts.
IMHO - yes he is significantly more limited. KJ could find a pass, feed the wide men on a regualar basis, get forward (he has a far superior goal scoring record) but was certainly up and down the pitch (not just sit and hold), his ball retention was far superior and was therefore able to be initiate forward thinking football - Semedo struggles in these areas and is basically a "destroyer" for which he quite rightly receives rave reviews. It's what he doesn't do that is so very often overlooked.
Mark Kinsella has said on many occasions that KJ was the best central midfielder that he ever played alongside and suggested there was so much that he did, that he wasn't given credit for and was far from "limited" which Semedo clearly is as a central midfielder.
Lee Bowyer rated Keith Jones very highly as well and i would agree that Keith Jones was a far superior footballer and i may be mistaken but i believe he also played central midfield for the whole of his career. There's no doubt that Semedo would be assisted by having those better players around him but to suggest he isn't part of the problem asd to why we don't play good football is a little bit of wishful thinking based on the fact that he's so likeable and hard working.
I have thought this for most of this season. Semedo is a very good defender and also did very well as Right Back when he played there. He is a limited midfielder because his first thought is not to go forwards and he will not take a player on so with him in the midfield it immediately limits it. He may not have much pace but neither do either of our Centre Halfs. I would personally love to see a back 4 of Semedo, Dailly, New fast centre half, Bessone.
the argument that our midfield would fall apart with Semedo is valid in someways but for a team leaking something like 2 goals a game on average this season it is not exactly working now anyway!
[cite]Posted By: Athletico Charlton[/cite]
The argument that our midfield would fall apart with Semedo is valid in someways but for a team leaking something like 2 goals a game on average this season it is not exactly working now anyway!
Good point! An interesting statistic! I think that Docherty is the weaker link in the defence & that Semedo would be worth a try there. Also at right back.
However, he said in his interview in the Exeter programme that he sees himself as a CM now. I get the impression he wouldn't be too happy to switch back. Though I couldn't imagine him shirking anything if he was selected to play in the back 4.
It's fair to say that he's probably prevented a shizzle load more goals going in, in his current position too. Definitely a case of taking the Doc' out of service for a bit. Fry would be my initial choice, when Bessone is fit to return. If CP doesn't sign another CB in the meantime.
If he played center back I think we would concede way to many goals from set pieces, If Francis is injured or dropped for Solly or Jenkinson we would have one of the shortest defences in the league. I think Semedo needs an attacking/creative player next to him in the midfield, unfortunately Racon is not creative or attacking enough and McOxo is just poor.
[cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]Saying he is not effective in midfield is nonsense.
The suggestion is that he offers little and is ineffective as an offensive central midfielder ( 1 goal in 113 or whatever it is + very few assists), if you disagree, fine but I would challenge his goals/assists/pass accuracy stats as effective. As a defensive midfielder, there is no one better or even close in this division, he is excellent in that regard, but his inability to offer anything remotely resembling a threat in their half of the field is and has been a problem we have had all season IMHO.
[cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]Who would the two be in the midfield then? Please don't say Racon and McOxo.
That is what needs to be addressed as any combination of what we have falls short in offereing enough in the attacking sense. Racon + A.N.Other would be my suggestion. Or failing that A.N.Other + A.N.Other.
Semedo is a centre back who is playing in midfield. He is our best option there at the moment but is not the future. If we can get in a quality loan then I would be very happy to see Jose play alongside Dailley. Playing there he might be the answer.
As good as he is as a defensive CM, I feel that our lack of creativiy from midfield is partially down to Semedo. I think he has it in him to be a proper box-to-box CM (at least in home games) with a little more coaching, but will the management be brave enough to risk him being less effective at defending the back four? When he first came he was partnered with Andy Reid, and all he had to do was pass to Reid who had the skill and vision to lose his man and pick a pass. Now, regardless of whoever we play next to him, our central midfield is too easy to defend against because the oppo basically only have to defend against one man because they know Jose won't take a chance going forward.
[cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]Semedo at Centre Back is a good shout. Saying he is not effective in midfield is nonsense.
Who would the two be in the midfield then? Please don't say Racon and McOxo.
mcoxo wouldn't be anywhere near the first team and racon would be on his way come the summer if i were in charge. wouldn't think about dropping semedo back into defence until new centre midfield players are brought in. midfield is the most important part of the team to me (as you may have guessed) and if it ain't right, the rest never will be.
defending? as a team there are still to many holes point shown over the last two games two games we should win i just watched the high lights on the bbc link from sat game fortune should be back in for doc strange choice about wright phillips if your going to play that system 4-3-3 play reid and nathan off BWP since the gaffa has come in reidy hasnt been in the side
sorry just dont rate abbott
i understand it were still on the look out for 2 players we need a centre half with pace badly
Semedo is strong in midfield- wins balls, plays quick simple balls, always involved- the perfect midfileder for us- just need to get his partner right - not move him out. You want height in your defence for set pieces - if you want somebody who is comfortable on the ball at centre half you could look at Llera but apart from Saturday - I think Doc hasn't been as bad as some are saying.
Comments
Not ruling him out however as he has only really played alongside the Doc when Dailly has been injured/suspended, maybe with Dailly they would form a better partnership.[/quote]
Missed Walsal but don't remember that v Rovers.
Maybe the injury has taken it's toll or just not played enough games.
shame either way.
You think he'd win his share of headers against a 6' 2" centre forward? NO
Not sure he's quicker than any of those. Ever seen him sprint? NO
I never said he doesn't move. You just made that up. He does move, just follows the ball and ignores what's going on behind him
Elliot
Jenkinson Dailly Fry Jackson
Wagstaff Racon Semedo Eccleston
Abbott Wright-Phillips
Worner Doherty Solly Reid McCormack Anyinsah Fortune or Benson (only if fit)
That way if we want to change it we have Jackson, Fry and Eccleston who can all play in a different role with relative ease, so Bringing on a centre back for a striker or a midfielder can actually be used as a positive substitution
harsh to question his positional discipline when id imagine both PP & CP told semedo to go hunting down the ball. I think thats why racon looks so central all the time when he plays with semedo. Jose does all the doggy work. As a centre-half i think with an experinced player like Dailly keeping the reigns on him, he'd be decent. cant be a lot worse than doc.
The Hoskins chance when he chipped over, sure Fortune had a head start and was done for pace.
Could be wrong, but hoping it is a lack of regular games. The most he has played in a row is 4 which possibly includes the game when he was taken off due to being unwell. A run in the side alongside Dailly who is quicker than the Doc and a better leader may help Fortune get back on track.
Can't remember Dailly and Fortune starting together?
This ................................................ have been of the opinion for a long, long time that one of the main problems (especially at home) is finding a formation that Semedo fits into given the make up of the squad. He is an exceptional defensive midfield player, who lacks other attributes that are required in certain midfield formations. He would fit well into a 4-1-4-1 which we don't play or a 4-4-2 that plays a diamond midfield, this though requires the left & right of the diamond to tuck in and although this would allow them to get into the box, it restricts width. We don't play the diamond (squad make up has plenty of wide midfielders but few who can play tucked in) and we have always tried to play 4-4-2 with width, which doesn't suit Semedo. Central midfielders (i.e. the middle two) in a straight 4-4-2 need to be box-to-box which he isn't, they need to act as a pivot, be able to shift/dummy, run with the ball, play a killer pass, get on the end of things and be a forward threat, all of which he lacks. One other central midfielder can not do all of that on his own, he needs to have a play mate, who doesn't just concentrate on the defensive side of the game. Having Semedo in there all this time, not offering the other attributes required has for me been the major handicap for us for a long time. Time to get two in there who can play and use Semedo's excellent qualities in another area of the team that can also benefit.
spot on - been saying it since the start of the season - to howls of derision from some but it's been the most important issue to be addressed since the start of the season so i make no apologies.
Difference is Jones was working alongside Robbo, Kins and Newts.
IMHO - yes he is significantly more limited. KJ could find a pass, feed the wide men on a regualar basis, get forward (he has a far superior goal scoring record) and was certainly up and down the pitch (not just sit and hold), his ball retention was far superior and was therefore able to be initiate forward thinking football - Semedo struggles in these areas and is basically a "destroyer" for which he quite rightly receives rave reviews. It's what he doesn't do that is so very often overlooked.
Mark Kinsella has said on many occasions that KJ was the best central midfielder that he ever played alongside and suggested there was so much that he did, that he wasn't given credit for and was far from "limited" which Semedo clearly is as a central midfielder.
Lee Bowyer rated Keith Jones very highly as well and i would agree that Keith Jones was a far superior footballer and i may be mistaken but i believe he also played central midfield for the whole of his career. There's no doubt that Semedo would be assisted by having those better players around him but to suggest he isn't part of the problem asd to why we don't play good football is a little bit of wishful thinking based on the fact that he's so likeable and hard working.
Who would the two be in the midfield then? Please don't say Racon and McOxo.
the argument that our midfield would fall apart with Semedo is valid in someways but for a team leaking something like 2 goals a game on average this season it is not exactly working now anyway!
Good point! An interesting statistic! I think that Docherty is the weaker link in the defence & that Semedo would be worth a try there. Also at right back.
However, he said in his interview in the Exeter programme that he sees himself as a CM now. I get the impression he wouldn't be too happy to switch back. Though I couldn't imagine him shirking anything if he was selected to play in the back 4.
It's fair to say that he's probably prevented a shizzle load more goals going in, in his current position too. Definitely a case of taking the Doc' out of service for a bit. Fry would be my initial choice, when Bessone is fit to return. If CP doesn't sign another CB in the meantime.
The suggestion is that he offers little and is ineffective as an offensive central midfielder ( 1 goal in 113 or whatever it is + very few assists), if you disagree, fine but I would challenge his goals/assists/pass accuracy stats as effective. As a defensive midfielder, there is no one better or even close in this division, he is excellent in that regard, but his inability to offer anything remotely resembling a threat in their half of the field is and has been a problem we have had all season IMHO.
That is what needs to be addressed as any combination of what we have falls short in offereing enough in the attacking sense. Racon + A.N.Other would be my suggestion. Or failing that A.N.Other + A.N.Other.
mcoxo wouldn't be anywhere near the first team and racon would be on his way come the summer if i were in charge. wouldn't think about dropping semedo back into defence until new centre midfield players are brought in. midfield is the most important part of the team to me (as you may have guessed) and if it ain't right, the rest never will be.
sorry just dont rate abbott
i understand it were still on the look out for 2 players we need a centre half with pace badly