[cite]Posted By: joeaddick[/cite]The board chose to appoint a novice, and if they weren't prepared to give him time to learn a job he has no experience in, then they're the ones we should be questioning...
Everything the Board has said recently indicates that they will give CP time, Joe.
As far as we know, it's only a segment of supporters who appear to have lost patience with a manager who has been in the job just 2 months.
Oggy They also said they would sit down with Parky and see what he needed, he never got the luxury to use whatever budget was finally available, and got the sack instead...
That ruthlessness, and hearing everything Mr Slater has officially said so far, leaves me thinking he'd have no hesitation in sacking Powell...
Agree, I'm not sure we can trust what the board say, nothing against them, but a 'vote of confidence' or a 'we'll give him time' means that you should pack your bags as much as it means you'll be given time these days.
Well, the performance of both team and crowd during the Swindon game, Joe - was the point where the new Board decided Parky couldn't go forward .......so Slater said.
Other than that, I don't know anymore facts than yourself.
[cite]Posted By: Charlton77[/cite]
Agree, I'm not sure we can trust what the board say, nothing against them, but a 'vote of confidence' or a 'we'll give him time' means that you should pack your bags as much as it means you'll be given time these days.
It's been a dreadful run of results, no argument there of course.
But all most of us seem to be doing is analysing to the nth degree, without knowing anything factual of what is said and done behind the scenes.
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]Love to understand the thinking of those who read the opening post and think "I know, I'll reply talking about Parky !"
In reply to the opening question, at the moment no I wouldn't. But then again I personally doubt Powell will have much input on what players the club brings in. I'm not convinced BWP was done to CP.
The question is more likely to be are the club comfortable with CP coaching the players and formulating a winning mentality ? At the moment, the answer to that is also no.
The mentions of Parky are a bizarre way to deflect criticism of Powell. It is strange thinking indeed.
If the rumours of "colleges" of staff including Slater, Jiminez and Vetere selecting the players to come in are true (although that is far from proven) then I am more worried. Either Powell picks his squad or you fire him. Slater and Jiminez have never played pro-football. Vetere is a scout, a good one in some people's view, but he's not even been confirmed as a CAFC employee yet.
Is Vetere going to give Powell a catalogue of players to choose from and what if Powell says "no, I don't want any of them. I want player X who I have seen play"? Who gets the final say?
But that's how it operates on the continent so why not here. Board buys and the coach coaches. Which comes back to has he proved to be a good coach or motivator? Not yet.
The choice for the board is to back Powell by giving him the freedom and the money to build his own squad or to sack him now or as soon as the season finishes. Waiting till November is pointless.
I'm still in the back him camp but we can't be blind to the risk that that entails.
I do agree with the earlier point made that by openly questioning the ability of the players, the board didn't exactly help Chrissy. I support Chrissy, the same as I supported Parky. I think sacking him won't help us as I thought sacking Parky wouldn't help us. Having said that, I think we can support Chrissy and still be critical of his tactics- this is a forum to express views and because we think it -it doesn't mean we are right. I do think it is important that he can turn things around this season though - it won't make any difference in terms of promotion but it will take pressure of of himself and start us and the club thinking positively about next season. We certainly need players with the necessary ability next season but also ones who have a desire to sweat blood for the badge - This period will be very useful to Chrissy in identifying which of the current squad have the right ability but just as importantly have the right attitude.
[cite]Posted By: MuttleyCAFC[/cite]This period will be very useful to Chrissy in identifying which of the current squad have the right ability but just as importantly have the right attitude.
I agree, Muttley ....... this dreadful run we've been on will sort the players who want to be here and Powell wants to be here, from those who are either not up to scratch or haven't the desire or application.
A vital part of the team re-building process. And no doubt a learning curve for Powell that only experience like this can buy.
So far he's spent money on one player, BWP, and I personally I think that's a good signing. This concept that we should be playing direct football is bollocks. Teams like Norwich, Millwall & Leeds got out of this league by playing football.
The truth is no one and I mean no one can say whether Powell will be a good manager, not even he himself.
For every arguement in favour there is a counter. He could be a Clough or a Poyet as the same happened to them at Leeds & Brighton. However, look at Gunn at Norwich. Etc etc.
Slater did confirm that Powell would be making the choice over who we sign, not Jiminez or Vetere.
As for statistics, you can make them say, whatever you want up to a point.
Yes, Powell has taken us from 5th to 13th & we haven't won for ages.
However, he has tried different players and formations, which has no doubt been unsettling. But should he have not seen for himself, what these players can do in the 1st team ?
Remember also, that although 5th when he took over, we were I believe 14th after the Brighton defeat.
Also look at the results below. Before Powell took over, we only won 1 out of the previous 10 games and that was against non league Luton.
We hadn't won in the previous 6 league games, 3 of which were games at home to teams now in the bottom 4.
Those results include a home draw against Bristol R 22nd.
A home draw in the cup against non league Luton.
A home defeat to Walsall 21st.
A draw away to Brighton, when we were 1 up and playing against 10 men for I think about 80 mins.
A defeat at home to Swindon who are 23rd.
So did the rot set in in November ? or did it set in after Powell's 4 games ?
November
Tue 23 19:45 H Bristol Rovers FL1 D 1-1 13,468
Sat 27 15:00 H Luton Town FACP D 2-2 8,682
December
Thu 9 19:45 A Luton Town FACP W 3-1 5,914
Sun 12 14:00 H Walsall FL1 L 0-1 14,938
Tue 14 19:45 A Brentford JPT (S) L 0-0 (aet 1-3 on pens) 2,783
Wed 29 19:45 A Brighton FL1 D 1-1 8,374
January
Sat 1 15:00 A Colchester FL1 D 3-3 6,112
Mon 3 17:05 H Swindon Town FL1 L 2-4 14,740
Sun 9 13:30 A Tottenham FACP L 0-3 35,698
Sat 15 15:00 A Sheffield Wed FL1 D 2-2 19,051
The truth is I can't make my mind up. I know Powell has inherited a weak team from Parky, which is not Parky's fault as he had little money to spend or is Parky's fault, because he would have had more money if he hadn't got us relegated.
I don't believe anyone could get the present team into the top 2 next season.
If I were in charge the only players I would want in my 1st team are Jackson & BWP (for the goals he should score, not for his overall play).
That means we would need another 9 1st teamers.
I grant you that some of the younger players could stay as they can fill in for cup games ie the likes of Elliot, Solly & Waggy.
Some older players may be worth keeping or trying to get such as Dailly, Bessone & Benson.
In conclusion I don't know whether we should give him the money. If we continue without a win I think he'll have to go.
If we pick up another say 10 points, which includes a couple of wins I suppose we should give him a chance and judge him at Xmas. Phew !
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]Give it time, we're not going down, this isn't an instant fix situation, if it's still shockingly bad in December 2011, then perhaps panic
Ridiculous optimism, the teams around the bottom in December usually get relegated and I'm pretty sure have never been promoted, which is the target for next season.
[cite]Posted By: JollyRobin[/cite]So far he's spent money on one player, BWP, and I personally I think that's a good signing. This concept that we should be playing direct football is bollocks. Teams like Norwich, Millwall & Leeds got out of this league by playing football.
Well said Sir.
Think long term and back the guy to build a strong committed team playing good football that merits promotion.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]Give it time, we're not going down, this isn't an instant fix situation, if it's still shockingly bad in December 2011, then perhaps panic
Ridiculous optimism, the teams around the bottom in December usually get relegated and I'm pretty sure have never been promoted, which is the target for next season.
[cite]Posted By: rikofold[/cite]What Grumpy and Oggy said.
In terms of giving Powell money, outside of the transfer window I'd say he's shown considerable more shrewdness in the loan market than Parky ever did. To a man the players Powell's brought in have improved the squad and can play football. Says to me the man can spot a player, and will get the right ones even in a limited market. Couple it with his evident vision of how he wants to play, open the transfer market and I think we'll see a very different Charlton side next year.
That's the biggest load of bollocks I have ever read on here - and that is quite some achievement given some of the drivel posted on CL over the years.
I'll take that as a compliment :-)
How can any rational person claim that Powell's loans/signings have been better than Parkinson's?
The players that Powell brought in have lost 8 out of the last 11 games - how does that demonstrate a shrewd policy or even a smidgeon of vision?
Professional football is about winning, sorry to bring that up, and if you are not winning for 11 games in a row then you are obviously not doing the job you were brought in for.
You can't argue with BWP but FFS none of Powell's other loanees have even been on the winning side yet (apart from Bessone, once) - so how can they possibly be viewed as a success? They can't.
By contrast Parky brought in some very, very decent loans to the club, Borrowdale was excellent last season and in comparison to Frank Nouble you would have to say that Lee Martin is like Lionel Messi.
This evisceration of Parkinson by some people drives me up the bloody wall, the bloke left us in 5th in the L1 table and two points off the autos, we are now 13th and 20 points off the autos, his sacking was quite obviously a crazy, knee-jerk move by the board.
As I have said elsewhere, this promise of "jam tomorrow" by the board and Powell is a very high-risk move because by around late September "tomorrow" is going to arrive.
[/quote]
So is Fry better than Bessone? Is Abbott better than BWP? Is McOxo better than Parrett?
The issue in the squad is hardly with the new players, it's with the shite he had to start with. And here's the rub. I'd rather have a Charlton Athletic who were successful long term than one who won now and failed later. I think CP's building something, and just as it took Curbs 7 or 8 years to give us a side that could survive in the Premiership, it might take CP longer than 11 games to form this shower into something good enough to go up.
As for Parky, you won't find a bigger supporter of his than me, but even I can see the reality was that our performances have been poor all season and the results were going to run out sooner or later, as Walsall and Swindon proved quite emphatically. I didn't support his sacking, but I'm supporting his replacement because I believe a long term view is the only way we'll get out of this malaise. And that was the question I believe.
Comments
Agree, I'm not sure we can trust what the board say, nothing against them, but a 'vote of confidence' or a 'we'll give him time' means that you should pack your bags as much as it means you'll be given time these days.
Other than that, I don't know anymore facts than yourself.
It's been a dreadful run of results, no argument there of course.
But all most of us seem to be doing is analysing to the nth degree, without knowing anything factual of what is said and done behind the scenes.
The mentions of Parky are a bizarre way to deflect criticism of Powell. It is strange thinking indeed.
If the rumours of "colleges" of staff including Slater, Jiminez and Vetere selecting the players to come in are true (although that is far from proven) then I am more worried. Either Powell picks his squad or you fire him. Slater and Jiminez have never played pro-football. Vetere is a scout, a good one in some people's view, but he's not even been confirmed as a CAFC employee yet.
Is Vetere going to give Powell a catalogue of players to choose from and what if Powell says "no, I don't want any of them. I want player X who I have seen play"? Who gets the final say?
But that's how it operates on the continent so why not here. Board buys and the coach coaches. Which comes back to has he proved to be a good coach or motivator? Not yet.
The choice for the board is to back Powell by giving him the freedom and the money to build his own squad or to sack him now or as soon as the season finishes. Waiting till November is pointless.
I'm still in the back him camp but we can't be blind to the risk that that entails.
I agree, Muttley ....... this dreadful run we've been on will sort the players who want to be here and Powell wants to be here, from those who are either not up to scratch or haven't the desire or application.
A vital part of the team re-building process. And no doubt a learning curve for Powell that only experience like this can buy.
Exactly ...... look at Brighton. And Rochdale.
For every arguement in favour there is a counter. He could be a Clough or a Poyet as the same happened to them at Leeds & Brighton. However, look at Gunn at Norwich. Etc etc.
Slater did confirm that Powell would be making the choice over who we sign, not Jiminez or Vetere.
As for statistics, you can make them say, whatever you want up to a point.
Yes, Powell has taken us from 5th to 13th & we haven't won for ages.
However, he has tried different players and formations, which has no doubt been unsettling. But should he have not seen for himself, what these players can do in the 1st team ?
Remember also, that although 5th when he took over, we were I believe 14th after the Brighton defeat.
Also look at the results below. Before Powell took over, we only won 1 out of the previous 10 games and that was against non league Luton.
We hadn't won in the previous 6 league games, 3 of which were games at home to teams now in the bottom 4.
Those results include a home draw against Bristol R 22nd.
A home draw in the cup against non league Luton.
A home defeat to Walsall 21st.
A draw away to Brighton, when we were 1 up and playing against 10 men for I think about 80 mins.
A defeat at home to Swindon who are 23rd.
So did the rot set in in November ? or did it set in after Powell's 4 games ?
November
Tue 23 19:45 H Bristol Rovers FL1 D 1-1 13,468
Sat 27 15:00 H Luton Town FACP D 2-2 8,682
December
Thu 9 19:45 A Luton Town FACP W 3-1 5,914
Sun 12 14:00 H Walsall FL1 L 0-1 14,938
Tue 14 19:45 A Brentford JPT (S) L 0-0 (aet 1-3 on pens) 2,783
Wed 29 19:45 A Brighton FL1 D 1-1 8,374
January
Sat 1 15:00 A Colchester FL1 D 3-3 6,112
Mon 3 17:05 H Swindon Town FL1 L 2-4 14,740
Sun 9 13:30 A Tottenham FACP L 0-3 35,698
Sat 15 15:00 A Sheffield Wed FL1 D 2-2 19,051
The truth is I can't make my mind up. I know Powell has inherited a weak team from Parky, which is not Parky's fault as he had little money to spend or is Parky's fault, because he would have had more money if he hadn't got us relegated.
I don't believe anyone could get the present team into the top 2 next season.
If I were in charge the only players I would want in my 1st team are Jackson & BWP (for the goals he should score, not for his overall play).
That means we would need another 9 1st teamers.
I grant you that some of the younger players could stay as they can fill in for cup games ie the likes of Elliot, Solly & Waggy.
Some older players may be worth keeping or trying to get such as Dailly, Bessone & Benson.
In conclusion I don't know whether we should give him the money. If we continue without a win I think he'll have to go.
If we pick up another say 10 points, which includes a couple of wins I suppose we should give him a chance and judge him at Xmas. Phew !
Well said Sir.
Think long term and back the guy to build a strong committed team playing good football that merits promotion.
I can't do short term ism
[/quote]
So is Fry better than Bessone? Is Abbott better than BWP? Is McOxo better than Parrett?
The issue in the squad is hardly with the new players, it's with the shite he had to start with. And here's the rub. I'd rather have a Charlton Athletic who were successful long term than one who won now and failed later. I think CP's building something, and just as it took Curbs 7 or 8 years to give us a side that could survive in the Premiership, it might take CP longer than 11 games to form this shower into something good enough to go up.
As for Parky, you won't find a bigger supporter of his than me, but even I can see the reality was that our performances have been poor all season and the results were going to run out sooner or later, as Walsall and Swindon proved quite emphatically. I didn't support his sacking, but I'm supporting his replacement because I believe a long term view is the only way we'll get out of this malaise. And that was the question I believe.