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Cricket: England select another South African

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  • Onions has not been selected because he has only just returned from a longterm injury.  I personally find it puzzling, on cricketing grounds, that Dernbach has been selected when someone like Chapple of Lancashire has consistently produced the goods with the ball (and the bat to some extent) in county cricket for many years. If the likes of Chapple are deemed too old now then what about Dernbach's fellow English Lions Harris of Glamorgan or Woakes of Warwickshire who again have performed well in county cricket for a few seasons now?

     

  • During his early days as a professional cricketer, Ramprakash had a reputation as a something of a mercurial and stormy character. Nicknamed "Bloodaxe" by Middlesex team-mates for his short temper, Ramprakash's younger days are now sharply contrasted with the laconic mellowness of his thirties.[4]

    [edit] Test career

     

    A quote from Wikipedia. Picked too early, discarded too early

  • Ramps had loads of chances at test level and never cut the mustard. If anything, he was given too many chances.
    Agreed, and as soon as he found superb form and a settled lifestyle .. he was persona non grata for some reason and never recalled. He has been usurped of course by a bunch of South Africans


    He was not persona non grata - he simply didn't score enough runs, or do so consistently. Ramp's problem wasn't technique, or county form, or that he wasn't bothered, he simply didn't have the temperament for Test level.

     


    You are probably right about his temperament but, as I recall, Ramps tended to get his chances against the W Indies who were dominant at the time. I don't remember too many appearances against, say, New Zealand.

    A few runs against the poorer test sides MIGHT have enabled him to become a proper test player.

     

  • he averaged 20 in 11 innings against new zealand.

    and 21 against windies in 29 inns.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/19323.html?class=1;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting

     

  • he averaged 20 in 11 innings against new zealand.

    and 21 against windies in 29 inns.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/19323.html?class=1;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting

     


    Well I was right that he got most of his chances against the W Indies!

    That said his remaining figures (Australia excepted) are poor it cannot be denied...

  • the depth of knowledge and/or research from contributors is tremendous. Pub Quiz standard @ least
  • Alright then Mr Mail reader (tongue in cheek don't have a hissy), here's one for you. What if a British solider is stationed in Germany or Cyprus & his pregnant wife gives birth in army accommodation on foreign soil? Is he eligible? If so what makes him eligible, and if he is eligible it seems an awful bureaucratic for my liking.
  • Alright then Mr Mail reader (tongue in cheek don't have a hissy), here's one for you. What if a British solider is stationed in Germany or Cyprus & his pregnant wife gives birth in army accommodation on foreign soil? Is he eligible? If so what makes him eligible, and if he is eligible it seems an awful bureaucratic for my liking.
    Red herring, totally irrelevant, Someone mentioned Butcher, Singapore born when dad was out there with the forces (not the Japanese forces b t w). Tazza is English to the core even though he seems to have defected to JockoLand. Also, British army bases are regarded as UK soil/territory. Read the whole correspeondence and you'll see that my argument is not about where people are born so much as how they are educated and brainwashed once they get over here. And for the record. my newspapers, I only buy on Saturday, I'm a Murdoch man, Sun and The Times
  • Onions has not been selected because he has only just returned from a longterm injury.  I personally find it puzzling, on cricketing grounds, that Dernbach has been selected when someone like Chapple of Lancashire has consistently produced the goods with the ball (and the bat to some extent) in county cricket for many years. If the likes of Chapple are deemed too old now then what about Dernbach's fellow English Lions Harris of Glamorgan or Woakes of Warwickshire who again have performed well in county cricket for a few seasons now?

     



    Glen Chapple is in his late 30s - he could do a job if asked, but isn't going to much of a Test career from here on, so is best put to one side.

    England are also a bit fixated on players who hit the deck hard, Tremlett, Broad, Finn are tall players who get a bit of bounce off a length and Dernbach is in that category. This style of bowling worked in the Ashes series and worked also against Sri Lanka this week, so i can see why the selectors have gone for him. But Dernbach is probably only fifth choice - Onions needs more cricket, and both Ajmal Shahzad and Tim Bresnan are injured as is Jimmy Anderson. In any case the arguments about his birth place are irrelevant, he has been on Surrey's books for circa ten seasons, making his debut at 17 and has learnt his cricket in England.

     


     

  • Seems to me that Lincs is on his own on this one.  The idea that in the modern day with work commitments which often involve international travel (eg the armed forces), substantial immigration and emigration and inter-country relationships between individuals growing, saying that you should only be able to represent the country of your birth is, imo, unsustainable. I agree that there must be some criteria - especially after the nonsense of some Ireland selections where buying a pint of Guinness seemed to qualify (see Cascarino) and Greg Rusedski (tennis) and Zola Budd (athletics).  But to exclude some sportsmen/women who had displayed a fierce pride in playing for England (or Britain) seems perverse.  In any event as no other country will do so (how would France ever have won the World Cup if they only selected those born on the mainland?) so Lincs would have us on our own, in every sport, and at the bottom. As long as the criteria are set out in advance and are followed (as they have been in the England cricket set-up) I will accept it.  Sure I would love every player to trace their ancestry back to Ethelred but, sorry Lincs, you need to be realistic.
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  • A few runs against the poorer test sides MIGHT have enabled him to become a proper test player.

     

    Better man-management would likely have seen him succeed. Ramps had the misfortune to play under the old regime at England where it was deemed that if you were considered good enough to be selected then you didn't need to be told what to do, how to play, or receive any further coaching let alone have anyone pay attention to the mental side of the game. Clearly he struggled to play in front of larger crowds and when the spotlight was focused on him and that was exploited by opponents. In the current England set up those weaknesses would have been addressed, Ian Bell for example is another who has struggled to translate talent into consistent run scoring, but the benefits of sticking with him and dealing with his mental achille's heel are apparent. Another hundred this week and he's averaging over 70 in his last dozen Tests.

     

     

  • Erm, Duncan Fletcher was actually GRANTED UK citizenship after The Ashes win in 2005.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4240294.stm

    Prior to that he was unable to meet the requirements to gain citizenship because he was repeatedly outside of the UK for more than 90 days per year - because of the nature of his job, obviously.

    The Home Office granted him Citizenship after a personal intervention by the minister, Charles Clarke.

    Ironically Fletcher ended up re-settling in Cape Town anyway, thereby rendering the whole thing a bit of a waste of time.

     

    Well spun Orminston.

    On 13 September 2005 Fletcher was awarded British citizenship after a five year wait. Although both his parents and all his grandparents were ethnically English, i.e., of English/British descent, Fletcher had been denied citizenship by virtue of the fact he spent most of his time abroad - touring with the England team. After the Ashes series win of 2005, the Home Secretary, Charles Clarke, intervened to award Fletcher his long-sought citizenship.[2

     


     



    How is that "well spun?"

    You made an absolutely incorrect assertion that "Duncan fletcher was outrageously refused a British passport after the ashes win."

    The truth was that he was AWARDED a British passport after the Ashes win. Spot the difference.

    Moreover, the reason he had to wait five years was because he DIDN'T qualify for a passport because he spent too much time overseas each year, they are the rules for everyone.

    Therefore, your assertion that Fletcher was denied citizenship on some spurious grounds is complete bollocks.

  • Dernbach does not "hit the deck hard".  He is a swing bowler with possibly the best slow ball in county cricket.
  • England always enter some players and Kevin pieterson was very good selection of South African and again they are thinking of it.
  • the depth of knowledge and/or research from contributors is tremendous. Pub Quiz standard @ least
    Well, most contributors, anyway.

    English RFU has failed for 8 years? Interesting, but horribly mis-informed I am afraid.

    Registered participants now well up to over 1 million.
    Average gates now up to around 14,000 per game. (Championship football around 18,000 average gates)
    Gate recepts rose by £4million between 2007 and 2009
    The few games at Twickenham raised almost £30m clear income out of an increased total of  £120million the RFU  filtered down to grass roots level
    More than half the Premiership clubs have moved to or have plans accepted for larger grounds.

    Worcester, the club I attend, has gone from playing matches on a field to a 20,000 £23million stadium since 2006. Last I saw on a Sunday there were games from mixed sex under 6's up to adult games non stop all day on 14 training pitches and this level of uptake and enthusiasm and coaching is happening all over the country. Mainly since 2003 world cup win

    The Wooden Spoon rugby charity has helped 5,000,000 (yes 5 million) disadvantaged children sinced 1983 as well as donating £15m other charity causes.
  • What's wrong with having a few South Africans in the side. If only Capello could get out a cheque book and sign a few players for England at football, we could in the WC Finals.
  • Just seen Dernbach bowling in the 20/20 v India .. he has improved out of sight, he can be English anytime he likes (lol)
  • 4-22 in a 20-20 game. Good figures for Dernbach In a tough away game.
  • 4-22 in a 20-20 game. Good figures for Dernbach In a tough away game.
    England fans must be outnumbered about 3 to 1 .. India must be the worst fielding side of all time (except for previous Indian teams), for professional sportsmen they are simply awful
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