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Hillsborough Disaster - Full Disclosure Petition

Recently the Information Commissioner decreed that there should be full document disclosure with regard to the Hillsborough disaster. The Government is challenging  this decree as they wish to keep the documents secret.

There is an e-petition on the government web site to get MP's to debate the subject, it has 87,000 signatures and needs 100.000 to make the MPs have a debate.

If you want to sign the petition just google "government petition" and then search "Hillsborough Distaster" - I can't do linky thingies!
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Comments

  • Not true.

    The government is NOT challenging the decree in order to keep the documents secret. They are challenging the decree to make it instantly available via the FOI. They have already agreed with the Hillsborough committee to release the documents to them and to the familes of the victims first. So that they get to hear the evidence and digest it before reading it in the newspaper. Llike the way most of them found out about the disaser in the first place - through the edia rather than through the normal official channels.

    There IS an argument to say that the governement is time-wasting by getting into this argument but if the FOI had never been sent in then the documents would have been released already.

    The problem with FOI is that it sets in place very rigid procedures which could have been avoided.

    But forcing a debate through this petition you are helping to ensure that the documents remain undisclosed for longer.

    The governement isn't always the bad guy.....

  • this one is
  • What's with all these e-petitions lately?

    Just seems that there's a new one every day.

    I'm going to start an e-petition against them.................
  • http://paisleygates.com/?p=5501

    Sign if You are so inclined: If not ignore. Simple as that.

    I did.
  • I still blame the liverpool fans, if they didnt have tickets they shouldnt have stormed the turnstiles.
  • WelshAddick; go read up on the facts, and then go and hang your head in shame.

    DRF, I find your position pretty bizarre too. It is over 20 years since the disaster. The request for access was first made before the panel set up by the previous government to consider the release of previously secret documents,  had been formed. This panel might or might not decide to release these documents at all. Or the government might choose not to implement its findings. The documents do after all contain reports sent to Thatcher and correspondence between her office and that of Douglas Hurd.

    Have you heard any of these families, still in anguish not knowing what happened to their loved ones, coming out against either the request or the petition?

    I've signed it and I hope it gets to 200k.
  • Signed

    Still remember watching the coverage in horror. The families deserve closure after all this time.
  • I still blame the liverpool fans, if they didnt have tickets they shouldnt have stormed the turnstiles.

    That's one of the most despicable things I have ever read on here, I am presuming you are not old enough to remember the full details of what took place that day.
  • edited August 2011
    I still blame the liverpool fans, if they didnt have tickets they shouldnt have stormed the turnstiles.
    That's right. And they pissed on coppers, and nicked stuff out of the pockets of the dying, and beat up the coppers giving the kiss of life to a dead supporter.

    You're either the worst WUM in history, or have the brains of a grape.
  • I still blame the liverpool fans, if they didnt have tickets they shouldnt have stormed the turnstiles.
    That's right. And they pissed on coppers, and nicked stuff out of the pockets of the dying, and beat up the coppers giving the kiss of life to a dead supporter.

    You're either the worst WUM in history, or have the brains of a grape.




    You're forgetting the most despicable of all lies that The Sun printed, the outrageous allegation that supporters on the pitch sexually assaulted unconscious and dying female fans.

    I wished I was not an Atheist because then I might believe that Kelvin Mackenzie might burn in hell for what he wrote on that Monday.

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  • I still blame the liverpool fans, if they didnt have tickets they shouldnt have stormed the turnstiles.
    That's right. And they pissed on coppers, and nicked stuff out of the pockets of the dying, and beat up the coppers giving the kiss of life to a dead supporter.

    You're either the worst WUM in history, or have the brains of a grape.




    You're forgetting the most despicable of all lies that The Sun printed, the outrageous allegation that supporters on the pitch sexually assaulted unconscious and dying female fans.

    I wished I was not an Atheist because then I might believe that Kelvin Mackenzie might burn in hell for what he wrote on that Monday.

    I was at Crawley Town that day, and news of the events were filtering through and as everyone else over the next few days were really in shock, but I really didn't know that the sun printed that
    I knew the story about no sales of the sun in Liverpool etc etc but did they really print that about the sexual assaults?
  • The petition has reached the initial target of 100,000 in under a week. The organisers would like to increase on that figure to show the strength of feeling, so if you want to sign please still do so.
  • Lord Justice Taylor stated in an independent report during a time when football fans were regarded as scum that the ticketless fans, although added to the problem, didn't do so significantly enough to be blamed. However, you do hear things such as the choice of stand being blamed and claims that Liverpool fans were not aware of the pens structure, even thought they had the Leppings Lane end the previous year and that it was the away end for league fixtures (I'm not sure if Sheff Wed were in the same league as Liverpool though). They didn't have The Kop as a lot of people believe.
  • Signed
  • I think we owe it to  families and  the dead fans for some transparent justice here.

    i signed the petition , and still will not buy the sun to this day?

     journalism at it's worst.
  • I still blame the liverpool fans, if they didnt have tickets they shouldnt have stormed the turnstiles.
    That's right. And they pissed on coppers, and nicked stuff out of the pockets of the dying, and beat up the coppers giving the kiss of life to a dead supporter.

    You're either the worst WUM in history, or have the brains of a grape.




    You're forgetting the most despicable of all lies that The Sun printed, the outrageous allegation that supporters on the pitch sexually assaulted unconscious and dying female fans.

    I wished I was not an Atheist because then I might believe that Kelvin Mackenzie might burn in hell for what he wrote on that Monday.

    I was at Crawley Town that day, and news of the events were filtering through and as everyone else over the next few days were really in shock, but I really didn't know that the sun printed that
    I knew the story about no sales of the sun in Liverpool etc etc but did they really print that about the sexual assaults?
    Yes, they did. My Grandad (sadly a Sun reader, although to be fair he was not a native English speaker) was ranting about it after he read it.

    I remember him being disgusted by the reported actions of the fans and, of course, the subsequent back tracking from the paper did not persuade him that the story was false.

    I would love McKenzie to break down in his car in Liverpool one day, then we might see some real justice handed out.
  • I still blame the liverpool fans, if they didnt have tickets they shouldnt have stormed the turnstiles.
    That's right. And they pissed on coppers, and nicked stuff out of the pockets of the dying, and beat up the coppers giving the kiss of life to a dead supporter.

    You're either the worst WUM in history, or have the brains of a grape.




    You're forgetting the most despicable of all lies that The Sun printed, the outrageous allegation that supporters on the pitch sexually assaulted unconscious and dying female fans.

    I wished I was not an Atheist because then I might believe that Kelvin Mackenzie might burn in hell for what he wrote on that Monday.

    I was at Crawley Town that day, and news of the events were filtering through and as everyone else over the next few days were really in shock, but I really didn't know that the sun printed that
    I knew the story about no sales of the sun in Liverpool etc etc but did they really print that about the sexual assaults?




    Here's the link, the mention is in the first paragraph.

    http://dontbuythesun.co.uk/site/289/an-excerpt-from-brian-reades-43-years-with-the-same-bird/

     

  • WOW!
    I never knew anything as to why the scousers boycotted the sun and I haven't bought a paper for the last 3 or 4 years but I shall definayely make sure I don't get the sun in future
  • Why do you think he made it all up, I know it sells papers but that sort of stupidity doesn't make sense! To 'quote' policement as well, was there any misbehaviour going on? I've never noticed anything on all the footage I've seen, but always wondered why this got printed!
  • Kelvin McKenzie is indeed an utter scumbag. I recall that he even retracted his apology during some discussion event around 2008. It disgusts me the extent to which the BBC use him on programmes such as Question Time/Any Questions and Newsnight. They do this because they feel pressure to provide "balance", but there is a disgrace and sleaziness around him which is not shared by other right wing commentators. 

    great that they passed 100k so quickly. I look forward to the debate, wherein some MPs who have closely followed the issue will have the chance to tell us interesting things under the cloak of parliamentary privilege.
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  • Have you heard any of these families, still in anguish not knowing what happened to their loved ones, coming out against either the request or the petition?
    2+2 != 5. Just because the families aren't publicly saying they're against it doesn't mean they're not.

    I don't see how any of us can speak for the families. Maybe they all don't want the details made public. That's why I'm not signing the petition. It's none of my business.
  • Doesn't kelvin Mackenzie support us?
  • My old man used to work in newspaper distribution and had dealings with McKenzie. He can confirm that he's a complete c*nt.
  • Why do you think he made it all up, I know it sells papers but that sort of stupidity doesn't make sense! To 'quote' policement as well, was there any misbehaviour going on? I've never noticed anything on all the footage I've seen, but always wondered why this got printed!




    Simple. Every other paper was running the "what a tragedy" angle and Kelvin, who hated Scousers anyway for their supposed left-wing millitancy (this was not long after the Hatton era) decided to go for broke and take the completely opposite approach in the hope of creating a massive stir.

    Sadly, as with the Belgrano story back in the Falklands War, he got the tone very badly wrong but once it had been published there was nothing he could do about it.

    You've got to remember tabloid journalism is all about the "exclusive" and getting the story nobody else has, the Hillsborough story was brilliant for Mackenzie because he did not have to make accusations against individuals - which would have left him open for Libel proceedings - but instead made the claims against "some fans" which gave him an out.

    I have not thrown a punch at anybody since about 1990 but would love to put one on him.

  • Why do you think he made it all up, I know it sells papers but that sort of stupidity doesn't make sense! To 'quote' policement as well, was there any misbehaviour going on? I've never noticed anything on all the footage I've seen, but always wondered why this got printed!
    He didn't make it all up. He was fed a line of utter bullshit by the old bill, then embellished and sensationalised it - the 'quotes' were from 'unnamed' coppers (a favourite device of bullshit 'journalists' since time immemorial).
  • Dabos

    if you had time to write that, you might also have had time to do a quick Google, and remind yourself that Kenny Dalglish, who as twittered his support for the petition, said

    "I think it's important people have access to the papers and disclosures on everything."I don't think anybody's got a problem with that."The families involved in the tragedy are the most important people to consider, and they seem very relaxed about it.
    or if you can spare two minutes, read the opinion of Professor John Ashton Cumbria's public health director, who treated the injured on the day. 

  • edited August 2011
    Have you heard any of these families, still in anguish not knowing what happened to their loved ones, coming out against either the request or the petition?
    2+2 != 5. Just because the families aren't publicly saying they're against it doesn't mean they're not.

    I don't see how any of us can speak for the families. Maybe they all don't want the details made public. That's why I'm not signing the petition. It's none of my business.
    Above and beyond anything else, imo as football fans who attend matches, it is very much our business.

    Signed.
  • Also signed.
  • Discussion/phone in about this on 5 Live this morning but caught only 15 minutes or so of it.

    2 of the  bereaved mothers both adamant that all the facts be made public knowledge but AFTER the families concerned have had access .

    Others ringing in stated that only culpable people would  not want the true facts to be published.

    Signed.

     

  • Discussion/phone in about this on 5 Live this morning but caught only 15 minutes or so of it.

    2 of the  bereaved mothers both adamant that all the facts be made public knowledge but AFTER the families concerned have had access .

    Others ringing in stated that only culpable people would  not want the true facts to be published.

    Signed.

     

    You'll always get these weird conspiracy theory people and the BBC wants to show both sides of the story. Hopefully they were just trying to get on the radio.
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