Interesting article in the Independent today about the demise of scottish football which was illustrated this evening as scottish club participation in Europe ended with Hearts, Rangers and Celtic all going out.
Most of it's fair bar "the poverty of Scottish clubs should benefit the national side", don't agree, I think Scottish players would benefit from playing alongside the world's top players in Scotland.
Disappointed to see Rangers out.
But pleased for Hearts fans that their team restored some pride tonight
Hearts fans very loud in the city late afternoon today - fair play to them!
As for Scottish football. What else can be said. They are no longer a PL feeder league, but a Championship feeder league with two massive footballing institutions now marooned up there comparatively potless.
It is well known in footballing circles that clubs in the SPL (excluding the Old Firm) are regularly outbid for players wages by even the top English non-league clubs let alone the L2, L1 and CCC clubs.
Even the Old Firm pay wages that would be laughed out of town by Premiership players, Rangers/Celtic would struggle to make the Play Offs in the CCC these days and would get bitch slapped in the Premiership.
Was at the Rangers game last night, first time I've seen this years squad live. We've also been to every Charlton game so far and I genuinely mean it when I say that Charlton would turn Rangers over. In my 26 years Rangers are the weakest they've ever been, whilst to some extent I agree that money is an issue when competing with English clubs, it shouldn't be an issue for the old firm when competing with Slovenian/Swedish clubs should it ?
Scootish football needs root and branch change. It's ridiculous for a country of 5m tohave an SFA, Sfl and SPL and 50 "professional" clubs. They need to make the league more attractive to punters than sitting at home watching football beamed in from down South - the start of this has to be moving to a summer season, which would mean less games called off in the winter months, more inviting conditions to get fans through the door, Scottish teams doing better in the early stages of European competition and most importantly ths SPL wouldn't have to compete with EPL for fans - English people might even take an interest if it was the only football on.
Fair play to shamrock btw, no Scottish team would have gotten that result.
If Rangers & Celtic moved into the English leagues they would attract wealthy buyers and therefore attract decent players. Both clubs have a huge fan base which would eclipse most of the Premier League clubs. Without doubt the Old Firm derby is the biggest in the world and this would be a dream for the Premier League. However, this would destroy the SFA and all of the remaining clubs. I dont want Scottish teams in our leagues and think that the SFA really need a complete overhaul of their approach from top to bottom as the situation will only get worse rather than better soon.
"Both clubs have a huge fan base which would eclipse most of the Premier League clubs" That is complete rubbish.
The two scottish clubs are nothing. And should not be allowed into our league. We have seen the trouble both sets of fans cause, and can you imagine how excited they would get each week when they have an excuse to come south of the boarder? Fuck that for a laugh. Keep em' up there away from England thanks.
It is well known in footballing circles that clubs in the SPL (excluding the Old Firm) are regularly outbid for players wages by even the top English non-league clubs let alone the L2, L1 and CCC clubs.
Even the Old Firm pay wages that would be laughed out of town by Premiership players, Rangers/Celtic would struggle to make the Play Offs in the CCC these days and would get bitch slapped in the Premiership.
I'd agree, but maybe put it a different way. Scottish clubs used to get better crowds and they had a nice, competitve league. In the 80s Rangers and then Celtic exercised their financial muscle and that quickly rendered the rest of the league pointless. Increasingly kids "supported" one of the big boys rather than their local team, because they'd rather watch a dominant side winning that properly support a team - we should beware the same thing here!
Early in the decade Dundee United got to a UEFA cup final disposing of the likes of Barcelona en route. They were also very unfortunate not to get to the final of the European Cup (Champs League for younger viewers). Aberdeen won the CWC and both them and Hearts competed well in Europe. What started to happen more and more in the 80s is that they couldn't compete with the foreign talent that the Old Firm brought in and - more damgingly - they also found that as soon as they produced a half decent player the old firm just snapped them up at a price that they couldn't afford to turn down - but that wouldn't allow them to attract a similar level of talent. I think that it then became fairly unattractive to develop players and fairly demotivating for the talent coming through. With strong squads at the Old Firm the ideal career path seemed to be to get picked up by United or Aberdeen or the Edinburgh clubs and then engineer a move to the OF, only to moulder away in their reserves. Really good players like Kevin Thompson, Steven Wright and Joe Miller went down this road. A few years earlier Aberdeen and Dundee United managed to retain the services of some really wonderul players for a fair amount of time - I'm thinking of the likes of Eric Black, Surrock, Malpas, Strachan, Willie Miller, McLeish, Narey, Kevin Gallacher and Ralphie Milne (OK, bad example). If those players had been born 10 years later they'd all have been hoovered up by the old firm and I'd bet that a number of them would have faded before finding their way. Now the product there is complete rubbish and they've got a top league right on their doorstep. I'd say that before long Scotland will be like Ireland where most people support an EPL club and have a local club that they occasionally watch. Things will only get worse there.
Given that Gretna were once in the English system, and Guernsey FC have just come into it, I've been wondering what would happen if you set up a new team, 'Glasgow Utd' (with its family-friendly non-secterian outlook) and said "we'd like to join the English league system please - like AFC Wimb & FC United we'll start at the bottom and work our way up".
A well-funded venture of this sort would have a reasonable prospect of moving up through the leagues rapidly, and ultimately there is a VERY big prize available.
This isn't going to happen, but if the (English) FA ever suggested it might entertain such a venture you'd have Celtic & Rangers pushing even harder to join the English system. Personally I think it will happen one day. It might coincide with the formation of a proper European league - thus creating vacancies in the Permiership...
And to supporters of teams like Hibs, Aberdeen etc I'd say "take your chances in tier 2 in England - it's competitive, crowds/atmosphere are decent, etc. What do you gain by being in the SPL?"
So, ultimately I think the Scottish teams should face reality & join our system. But I would make them earn their places somehow. Celtic & 'Gers to start in League 2 & work their way up?
"Both clubs have a huge fan base which would eclipse most of the Premier League clubs" That is complete rubbish.
The two scottish clubs are nothing. And should not be allowed into our league. We have seen the trouble both sets of fans cause, and can you imagine how excited they would get each week when they have an excuse to come south of the boarder? Fuck that for a laugh. Keep em' up there away from England thanks.
It's a fact that both the old firm clubs have a bigger support than most premier league clubs, I'm stunned that anyone can think otherwise! Although you're right that they would bring trouble and that's why the haven't been invited down south. We've been over this about 5 times before!
Overall turnover was up and our 12 clubs made a combined profit – the fifth annual profit in the last six years. Over the same year, English Premier League clubs announced combined losses of an incredible £445million and Championship clubs of around £130million!
well I am dead against the idea of Celtic and Rangers joining the Prem, and last night's results should hopefully take it off the agenda for the foreseeable future. If the basis for the argument is their support, as opposed to their allegedly Prem quality (clearly now exposed as bollocks), then it s a short step to a closed Prem with Leeds and West Ham in it at the expense of Blackburn and Wigan. Stuff that.
I had a chat about this recently with a Scots friend. Sorry to be so gloomy yet again but the Scots lost a whole generation of young men to booze and heroin back in the 80s/90s .. Irving Welsh is the Jonathan Swift of that era, a very sad time for Scotland and the UK.
Without doubt the Old Firm derby is the biggest in the world Been to many El Classicos then?
Have had the pleasure of attending both derbies and whilst both are intense the old firm carries a heavy religious element which is a feeling like no other. The biggest el classico attendance is under 120,000 whilst the old firm is 133,000 with thousands locked out. Celtic and Rangers are in the same city remember!!!!!!!
I had a chat about this recently with a Scots friend. Sorry to be so gloomy yet again but the Scots lost a whole generation of young men to booze and heroin back in the 80s/90s .. Irving Welsh is the Jonathan Swift of that era, a very sad time for Scotland and the UK.
They lost a whole generation?! So there are no males aged between 20 and 30 in Scotland at the moment?!
I had a chat about this recently with a Scots friend. Sorry to be so gloomy yet again but the Scots lost a whole generation of young men to booze and heroin back in the 80s/90s .. Irving Welsh is the Jonathan Swift of that era, a very sad time for Scotland and the UK.
They lost a whole generation?! So there are no males aged between 20 and 30 in Scotland at the moment?!
dont be ridiculous .. a generation of young Scots decided that taking heroin and large quantities of alcohol was preferable to playing football, especially on estates plasterd with 'No Ball Game' signs and in streets with cars parked kerb to kerb and wall to wall.
Probably a number of reasons - the decline of traditional working class employment opportunities and cash strapped councils selling off school playing fields. Plus the decent footballers were picked up by Prem/CCC clubs.
I'm not sure that the domination by Rangers/Celtic really helps the league that much, decent Scottish players gravitate to one of those clubs, that is they don't move south of the border first and both Old Firm clubs are stuffed full of non-Scottish players.
Andy Gray - Ally Mcleod - James 1st - Robbie Burns - Robert the Bruce - Sir Walter Ralleigh - Mel Gibson - Dennis Law - Alex Ferguson - Alan Brazil - Jock Stein - Moira Stewart -
Comments
The problem for Scottish football - money.
It is well known in footballing circles that clubs in the SPL (excluding the Old Firm) are regularly outbid for players wages by even the top English non-league clubs let alone the L2, L1 and CCC clubs.
Even the Old Firm pay wages that would be laughed out of town by Premiership players, Rangers/Celtic would struggle to make the Play Offs in the CCC these days and would get bitch slapped in the Premiership.
Scootish football needs root and branch change. It's ridiculous for a country of 5m tohave an SFA, Sfl and SPL and 50 "professional" clubs. They need to make the league more attractive to punters than sitting at home watching football beamed in from down South - the start of this has to be moving to a summer season, which would mean less games called off in the winter months, more inviting conditions to get fans through the door, Scottish teams doing better in the early stages of European competition and most importantly ths SPL wouldn't have to compete with EPL for fans - English people might even take an interest if it was the only football on.
Fair play to shamrock btw, no Scottish team would have gotten that result.
That is complete rubbish.
The two scottish clubs are nothing. And should not be allowed into our league.
We have seen the trouble both sets of fans cause, and can you imagine how excited they would get each week when they have an excuse to come south of the boarder? Fuck that for a laugh. Keep em' up there away from England thanks.
I'd agree, but maybe put it a different way. Scottish clubs used to get better crowds and they had a nice, competitve league. In the 80s Rangers and then Celtic exercised their financial muscle and that quickly rendered the rest of the league pointless. Increasingly kids "supported" one of the big boys rather than their local team, because they'd rather watch a dominant side winning that properly support a team - we should beware the same thing here!
Early in the decade Dundee United got to a UEFA cup final disposing of the likes of Barcelona en route. They were also very unfortunate not to get to the final of the European Cup (Champs League for younger viewers). Aberdeen won the CWC and both them and Hearts competed well in Europe. What started to happen more and more in the 80s is that they couldn't compete with the foreign talent that the Old Firm brought in and - more damgingly - they also found that as soon as they produced a half decent player the old firm just snapped them up at a price that they couldn't afford to turn down - but that wouldn't allow them to attract a similar level of talent. I think that it then became fairly unattractive to develop players and fairly demotivating for the talent coming through. With strong squads at the Old Firm the ideal career path seemed to be to get picked up by United or Aberdeen or the Edinburgh clubs and then engineer a move to the OF, only to moulder away in their reserves. Really good players like Kevin Thompson, Steven Wright and Joe Miller went down this road. A few years earlier Aberdeen and Dundee United managed to retain the services of some really wonderul players for a fair amount of time - I'm thinking of the likes of Eric Black, Surrock, Malpas, Strachan, Willie Miller, McLeish, Narey, Kevin Gallacher and Ralphie Milne (OK, bad example). If those players had been born 10 years later they'd all have been hoovered up by the old firm and I'd bet that a number of them would have faded before finding their way. Now the product there is complete rubbish and they've got a top league right on their doorstep. I'd say that before long Scotland will be like Ireland where most people support an EPL club and have a local club that they occasionally watch. Things will only get worse there.
Given that Gretna were once in the English system, and Guernsey FC have just come into it, I've been wondering what would happen if you set up a new team, 'Glasgow Utd' (with its family-friendly non-secterian outlook) and said "we'd like to join the English league system please - like AFC Wimb & FC United we'll start at the bottom and work our way up".
A well-funded venture of this sort would have a reasonable prospect of moving up through the leagues rapidly, and ultimately there is a VERY big prize available.
This isn't going to happen, but if the (English) FA ever suggested it might entertain such a venture you'd have Celtic & Rangers pushing even harder to join the English system. Personally I think it will happen one day. It might coincide with the formation of a proper European league - thus creating vacancies in the Permiership...
And to supporters of teams like Hibs, Aberdeen etc I'd say "take your chances in tier 2 in England - it's competitive, crowds/atmosphere are decent, etc. What do you gain by being in the SPL?"
So, ultimately I think the Scottish teams should face reality & join our system. But I would make them earn their places somehow. Celtic & 'Gers to start in League 2 & work their way up?
English football looks likely to soon burst and we'll have a similar situation to Scotland. PWC annual review on Scottish football. SPL Chief Executive blog.
Overall turnover was up and our 12 clubs made a combined profit – the
fifth annual profit in the last six years. Over the same year, English
Premier League clubs announced combined losses of an incredible
£445million and Championship clubs of around £130million!
Been to many El Classicos then?
Probably a number of reasons - the decline of traditional working class employment opportunities and cash strapped councils selling off school playing fields. Plus the decent footballers were picked up by Prem/CCC clubs.
I'm not sure that the domination by Rangers/Celtic really helps the league that much, decent Scottish players gravitate to one of those clubs, that is they don't move south of the border first and both Old Firm clubs are stuffed full of non-Scottish players.
Andy Gray - Ally Mcleod - James 1st - Robbie Burns - Robert the Bruce - Sir Walter Ralleigh - Mel Gibson - Dennis Law - Alex Ferguson - Alan Brazil - Jock Stein - Moira Stewart -
YOUR BOYS TOOK ONE HELL OF A BEATING !!!!!!!!!!!
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