I have little respect for the way football conducts itself. Football clubs run up debt to all and sundry and when it goes tits up they walk away from the mess and some new owner carries on as if nothing happened and the players don't even break a sweat about it. Look at Leicester a few years back. Went skint and took a lot of small local businesses with them and at the very same time moved into a brand new stadium. Sooner or later football has to face up to its responsibilities and take a hit. This seems as good a time as any and once one goes I fully expect the authorities to allow a few more. Sad for the supporters as always.
Saints fan, going into administration isn't fun for anyone involved. Its the smaller creditors I feel sorry for who get mugged off.
The rules which place "football creditors" above all others is the real problem here. Until they address that, you will continue to have clubs going bust, wriggling out of payments to non preferential creditors such as HMRC, paying off only those football creditors they need to pay and escaping with a 10 point deduction which can, as we saw with Palarse, still keep them from going down.
In my view, if football debts ranked the same as other debts, you wouldn't see clubs run so poorly.
From memory we owed nothing to HMRC because unlike that lot we still managed to pay the tax bill.
Maybe, but the way we settled with Aviva was better than the way most clubs in admin settle their debts with that whole "paying back 20p in the £1". From memory Aviva got between £14m-£17m + the £7m we had already paid them since St. Mary's had been opened.
So your saying I'ts ok to get into huge debt then pay whatever you can get away with to other creditors (and I'm sure some smaller businesses suffered a lot more than Aviva as they always do) as long as you pay your tax bill?
Funny how after defaulting big amounts you were then able to immediately spend a decent amount of money on new players! If the club could find this money then surely it should have been used to pay more to your creditors?. The system is shite and your club took advantage of it. I'm sure Pompey and other clubs/fans can argue they're doing the same. Everyone can see things have to change, especially how the creditors are dealt with, and if it takes a bigger club going to the wall then so be it, I have no sympathy for Pompey. I won't hold my breath though as the FA couldn't care less as things are.
So your saying I'ts ok to get into huge debt then pay whatever you can get away with to other creditors (and I'm sure some smaller businesses suffered a lot more than Aviva as they always do) as long as you pay your tax bill?
Funny how after defaulting big amounts you were then able to immediately spend a decent amount of money on new players! If the club could find this money then surely it should have been used to pay more to your creditors?. The system is shite and your club took advantage of it. I'm sure Pompey and other clubs/fans can argue they're doing the same. Everyone can see things have to change, especially how the creditors are dealt with, and if it takes a bigger club going to the wall then so be it, I have no sympathy for Pompey. I won't hold my breath though as the FA couldn't care less as things are.
No, I never said that at all. I just think the tax bill should be one of the priorities for football club to pay, if they don't then they deserve a punishment.
Who exactly are the smaller businesses that suffered? I'm almost certain that only football creditors, Aviva and Barclays bank were the only ones owed money.
On the subject of our spending after administration, the club made £3.2m through player sales during administration. The Football League automatically ensured that this went towards the two clubs who we owed money to (Bournemouth and Notts County), leaving us with around £3m. We got lucky with our buyer and also lucky that Leon Crouch (ex chairman) paid for the wages out of his own pocket.
Like I said, we got so lucky that we were taken over by Liebherr. Had money not been reinvested into the squad then we would have got relegated to League Two which obviously would mean the club would lose more money. Liebherr and Cortese said when they took over that once the club was back on its own feet we would live within our means, which I believe we are currently doing, well in terms of transfers ins and outs anyway.
On the subject of our spending after administration, the club made £3.2m through player sales during administration. The Football League automatically ensured that this went towards the two clubs who we owed money to (Bournemouth and Notts County), leaving us with around £3m. We got lucky with our buyer and also lucky that Leon Crouch (ex chairman) paid for the wages out of his own pocket.
Yes paying tax is important but so is paying all your bills, and benefiting from not paying a large percentage of your debts is simply wrong no matter who it's too.
So you had £3m that should have gone to your creditors then? And your ex Chairman could fund players wages but not pay debts the club accrued whilst he was there? As I said money to fund players but not pay your debts!
"Had money not been reinvested into the squad then we would have got relegated to League Two which obviously would mean the club would lose more money"
Tough, not an excuse. It's still wrong because your not going to go back and pay off more of the money you owed are you? Plus spending money wasn't a guarantee of succeeding.
Simple facts are you owed lots of money and didn't pay a large amount of it. You took advantage of the rules and benefited massively as opposed to us (and others) who struggled on. I understand you sticking up for your club and believing that what you did isn't as bad as what others do. But you still benefited by doing things wrongly. The system, the Premiership, the FA(ll), and the way football operates in England is wrong and there's no defending it.
Why years ago when they were spending millions (it was impossible for them to have) on players when they didn't spend a penny on their ground, were they allowed to?
Football especially in the prem is so self absorbed that they would all do practically anything to keep the disgusting money go round greed fest going and not do anything to upset that. Vast majority of Prem clubs are up to their eyeballs in debt and would crash and burn if relegated. Not much sympathy for what the premier league has done to English football.
Whilst I agree tax should be paid I think I would prefer the hmrc spent their time chasing down tax avoided by late corporations that would net us far more than Portsmouth owe. I would also be wary of saying enough is enough. I am pretty sure that about 13 months ago we were in financial dire straits. As a club we are not what you would call profitable nor do we have the most transparent ownership. Personally I would prefer we keep quiet and hope that our own house is in far better order both for the short and long term.
Keeping preferred creditor status for other clubs is important to maintain integrity of competition and to safeguard it. Not quite sure how they get away with tax liabilities taking second place though.
As for the points deduction, the Saints holding company wouldn't have existed but for the football club - that's not the case with Pompey's owners.
I hope they survive - compare their history and identity with that of our plastic faux Barca neighbours and it would be criminal to lose them. The fans don't deserve what's happened, but sooner or later a proper club will fall and it's not as if this hasn't been coming for Pompey. It's all a terrible shame really.
As Harry said at the time they first went into Receivership - "I had nothing to do with the transfers". Of course you didn't Harry. I bet you never took a penny.
As for the points deduction, the Saints holding company wouldn't have existed but for the football club -that's not the case with Pompey's owners.
The Saints holding company was created in 1996 and the football club, Stadium and training ground were not transferred until 2002ish. So the parent company did exist without a football club.
Skates parent company enabled them to spend £4m in the Summer, their parent company is probably more important to them than ours was to us.
I've said for a long time that it will take the closure of a big club to really wake football up in this country and for clubs to try and get their debts in order. I don't want that club to be Portsmouth, but I fear it may be.
Saints Fan, in the end the authorities chose a different route for Saints to Pompey in respect of the holding company. I may be wrong but wasn't the Pompey administration under Prem rules and the Saints one under FL rules. I seem to remember that Wet Spam were in a similar position and were not given a points deduction. On the other hand that could have just been because it was West Ham - they won the world cup don't you know.....:o)
Stig, I understand you may have a reason for not wanting it to be Portsmouth, and I doubt that it will be, but if you just look at the size of debt and the attitude to it Portsmouth are the club that I think deserve it the most.
Pompey are a fecking joke, they still have some top CCC level players down there like Ben Haim, Lawrence, Norris, Kitson, Benjani, Varney, Mullins and HH - how can they afford players like that when they have debts like they do? They are not even trying to lower their outgoings.
Pompey are a fecking joke, they still have some top CCC level players down there like Ben Haim, Lawrence, Norris, Kitson, Benjani, Varney, Mullins and HH - how can they afford players like that when they have debts like they do? They are not even trying to lower their outgoings.
it shouldnt be forgotten how many small busineses have gone to the wall because of debts not paid by Saints and Pompey -----ooooooooooooooo sorry they did pay 10p in the £
I don't like to say it and I hate the fact the The Pompey Fans have suffered so much but there is only so many times a club can default on their debts. I'm Sorry to say that it's time that Portsmouth f.c should fold.
Comments
The rules which place "football creditors" above all others is the real problem here. Until they address that, you will continue to have clubs going bust, wriggling out of payments to non preferential creditors such as HMRC, paying off only those football creditors they need to pay and escaping with a 10 point deduction which can, as we saw with Palarse, still keep them from going down.
In my view, if football debts ranked the same as other debts, you wouldn't see clubs run so poorly.
Funny how after defaulting big amounts you were then able to immediately spend a decent amount of money on new players! If the club could find this money then surely it should have been used to pay more to your creditors?. The system is shite and your club took advantage of it. I'm sure Pompey and other clubs/fans can argue they're doing the same.
Everyone can see things have to change, especially how the creditors are dealt with, and if it takes a bigger club going to the wall then so be it, I have no sympathy for Pompey. I won't hold my breath though as the FA couldn't care less as things are.
Who exactly are the smaller businesses that suffered? I'm almost certain that only football creditors, Aviva and Barclays bank were the only ones owed money.
On the subject of our spending after administration, the club made £3.2m through player sales during administration. The Football League automatically ensured that this went towards the two clubs who we owed money to (Bournemouth and Notts County), leaving us with around £3m. We got lucky with our buyer and also lucky that Leon Crouch (ex chairman) paid for the wages out of his own pocket.
Like I said, we got so lucky that we were taken over by Liebherr. Had money not been reinvested into the squad then we would have got relegated to League Two which obviously would mean the club would lose more money. Liebherr and Cortese said when they took over that once the club was back on its own feet we would live within our means, which I believe we are currently doing, well in terms of transfers ins and outs anyway.
So you had £3m that should have gone to your creditors then? And your ex Chairman could fund players wages but not pay debts the club accrued whilst he was there? As I said money to fund players but not pay your debts! Tough, not an excuse. It's still wrong because your not going to go back and pay off more of the money you owed are you? Plus spending money wasn't a guarantee of succeeding.
Simple facts are you owed lots of money and didn't pay a large amount of it. You took advantage of the rules and benefited massively as opposed to us (and others) who struggled on. I understand you sticking up for your club and believing that what you did isn't as bad as what others do. But you still benefited by doing things wrongly. The system, the Premiership, the FA(ll), and the way football operates in England is wrong and there's no defending it.
As for the points deduction, the Saints holding company wouldn't have existed but for the football club - that's not the case with Pompey's owners.
I hope they survive - compare their history and identity with that of our plastic faux Barca neighbours and it would be criminal to lose them. The fans don't deserve what's happened, but sooner or later a proper club will fall and it's not as if this hasn't been coming for Pompey. It's all a terrible shame really.
Skates parent company enabled them to spend £4m in the Summer, their parent company is probably more important to them than ours was to us.
The only "big" club in the country are Sheffield Wednesday and they are "fooking Massive"
:-)
There will be business over there that have been shafted by the both of them.
Sorry to say that it's time that Portsmouth f.c should fold.
:-D