Piers Morgan
Comments
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Sure you could look back at any national hero and condemn their actions in light of today's attitudes.0
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I'd probably say Brunel, Newton and Darwin are greater to me but i have massive admiration for War time Churchill.holyjo said:Im fine with who Churchill was, he was a man of his time, to me and many others he is the greatest ever Brit. End of.
Fair enough ......... but to me and many others he was not the greatest ever Brit . End of.3 -
Its beyond belief. Seems to be wrong now to be proud of being British. You can't without being called a racist or whatever. Few decades ago people like that ginger kid would be put into sectioning. Now they've got a platform to spout utter sh!t and it's infecting snowflakes at a rate of knots. Scary stuff12
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I’ve seen it all now. “Churchill was a shit who got lucky”.
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Who said that?alan dugdale said:I’ve seen it all now. “Churchill was a shit who got lucky”.
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I am very proud of lots of things to do with being British.AdTheAddicK said:Its beyond belief. Seems to be wrong now to be proud of being British. You can't without being called a racist or whatever. Few decades ago people like that ginger kid would be put into sectioning. Now they've got a platform to spout utter sh!t and it's infecting snowflakes at a rate of knots. Scary stuff
I've not however been a big fan of Eugenics , using the army to attack civilians , or racial supremacism . You are right that in the past you might be sectioned or imprisoned for expressing such views. On occasions that's how people in those days dealt with legitimate challenge or opposition.
I'm sorry that a challenge to your world view is so scary ......... perhaps you are more of a snowflake than those you accuse7 -
No, they don't.Uboat said:
His admirers have to either deny that those things happened or admit that they're fine with them, which is why they choose to put their fingers in their ears and keep shouting.holyjo said:se9addick said:
I disagree with that part - Hitler’s actions and his motivations were utterly reprehensible at the time and by the standards of the time. I wouldn’t put Churchill anywhere near that category.iainment said:
Then nor can Hitler, Stalin, or any other leader who rode the tide of the beliefs of the society they were in.soapboxsam said:I really question that Attlee gave the order to bomb Dresden because Churchill was away.
I'm sure Churchill was still running every main decision and was on the end of a telephone.
Agree that Churchill was a man of his time and his upper class upbringing and as soon as the best 6 years of his life were over, was rejected by the people who realized that he was a war leader 1st and foremost.
He did get another go at being Prime minister 1951 to 55 because of the slow progress after the war for one last swan song.
An erratic career for most of his political life and his imperialism belief's but many held these views back in the late 19th and early 20th century.
Churchill can't be Judged from the 21st century without understanding the mores of the times he lived in.
Everyone is moulded by their experiences and everyone should be judged subsequently by the new historians. This leads to revisionism of the left and right but there are few absolute interpretations of the past. Having new understandings and theories gives dynamism to the past that passive acceptance to established history can't.
FWIW I think Churchill was a shit who got lucky. Most of his ideas previous to WWII were disastrous failures or polarised people.
Gallipoli, getting troops in on the Welsh miners etc. However in WWII the thing I admire him for is understanding that Britain wasn't able to win the war without major allies. He was good at cultivating them and when the US and the USSR came in good at dealing with them.
Just because we can’t judge people of the past by today’s standards doesn’t mean we can’t judge them by any standards.
Churchill cannot and should not be put in anywhere near that category however he was guilty of lots of things including the following
Allowing hundreds of thousands of Indians to starve to death
Supporting Chemical warfare against defenceless tribes in the middle east
Supporting Eugenics
Supporting Racial hierarchies
He Wanted To Use ‘Keep England White’ as a Slogan
He Covered Up The Katyn Massacre
Send the army in to attack Welsh protesters who were starving
People can admire his achievements (of which there are many) and still recognise his failings (of which there are many).
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It's not scary HolyJo it's terrifying. No need to apologise. I'm sure there will be another topic you'll be offended by next week.holyjo said:
I am very proud of lots of things to do with being British.AdTheAddicK said:Its beyond belief. Seems to be wrong now to be proud of being British. You can't without being called a racist or whatever. Few decades ago people like that ginger kid would be put into sectioning. Now they've got a platform to spout utter sh!t and it's infecting snowflakes at a rate of knots. Scary stuff
I've not however been a big fan of Eugenics , using the army to attack civilians , or racial supremacism . You are right that in the past you might be sectioned or imprisoned for expressing such views. On occasions that's how people in those days dealt with legitimate challenge or opposition.
I'm sorry that a challenge to your world view is so scary ......... perhaps you are more of a snowflake than those you accuse2 -
I used the word 'admirers' because I was trying to be polite.Henry Irving said:
No, they don't.Uboat said:
His admirers have to either deny that those things happened or admit that they're fine with them, which is why they choose to put their fingers in their ears and keep shouting.holyjo said:se9addick said:
I disagree with that part - Hitler’s actions and his motivations were utterly reprehensible at the time and by the standards of the time. I wouldn’t put Churchill anywhere near that category.iainment said:
Then nor can Hitler, Stalin, or any other leader who rode the tide of the beliefs of the society they were in.soapboxsam said:I really question that Attlee gave the order to bomb Dresden because Churchill was away.
I'm sure Churchill was still running every main decision and was on the end of a telephone.
Agree that Churchill was a man of his time and his upper class upbringing and as soon as the best 6 years of his life were over, was rejected by the people who realized that he was a war leader 1st and foremost.
He did get another go at being Prime minister 1951 to 55 because of the slow progress after the war for one last swan song.
An erratic career for most of his political life and his imperialism belief's but many held these views back in the late 19th and early 20th century.
Churchill can't be Judged from the 21st century without understanding the mores of the times he lived in.
Everyone is moulded by their experiences and everyone should be judged subsequently by the new historians. This leads to revisionism of the left and right but there are few absolute interpretations of the past. Having new understandings and theories gives dynamism to the past that passive acceptance to established history can't.
FWIW I think Churchill was a shit who got lucky. Most of his ideas previous to WWII were disastrous failures or polarised people.
Gallipoli, getting troops in on the Welsh miners etc. However in WWII the thing I admire him for is understanding that Britain wasn't able to win the war without major allies. He was good at cultivating them and when the US and the USSR came in good at dealing with them.
Just because we can’t judge people of the past by today’s standards doesn’t mean we can’t judge them by any standards.
Churchill cannot and should not be put in anywhere near that category however he was guilty of lots of things including the following
Allowing hundreds of thousands of Indians to starve to death
Supporting Chemical warfare against defenceless tribes in the middle east
Supporting Eugenics
Supporting Racial hierarchies
He Wanted To Use ‘Keep England White’ as a Slogan
He Covered Up The Katyn Massacre
Send the army in to attack Welsh protesters who were starving
People can admire his achievements (of which there are many) and still recognise his failings (of which there are many).0 - Sponsored links:
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Why hasn't this thread been shuffled off to the Charlton Life wilderness that is the House of Commoners group?
You buggers taking chunks out of each other with the luxury of being able to quote one another don't know how lucky you are.
:-)5 -
Somewhere in a post on page 10Uboat said:
Who said that?alan dugdale said:I’ve seen it all now. “Churchill was a shit who got lucky”.
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Churchill was a racist and he was a great man. The trouble is with people who on one side say he can't have been a great man because he was a racist and people on the other side who say he can't have been a racist because he was a great man.
H
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Seriously, re-read the last two pages. You are the only offended person on here.AdTheAddicK said:
It's not scary HolyJo it's terrifying. No need to apologise. I'm sure there will be another topic you'll be offended by next week.holyjo said:
I am very proud of lots of things to do with being British.AdTheAddicK said:Its beyond belief. Seems to be wrong now to be proud of being British. You can't without being called a racist or whatever. Few decades ago people like that ginger kid would be put into sectioning. Now they've got a platform to spout utter sh!t and it's infecting snowflakes at a rate of knots. Scary stuff
I've not however been a big fan of Eugenics , using the army to attack civilians , or racial supremacism . You are right that in the past you might be sectioned or imprisoned for expressing such views. On occasions that's how people in those days dealt with legitimate challenge or opposition.
I'm sorry that a challenge to your world view is so scary ......... perhaps you are more of a snowflake than those you accuse4 -
ianment on the previous page.Uboat said:
Who said that?alan dugdale said:I’ve seen it all now. “Churchill was a shit who got lucky”.
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alan dugdale said:
Somewhere in a post on page 10Uboat said:
Who said that?alan dugdale said:I’ve seen it all now. “Churchill was a shit who got lucky”.
So he did. Thanks.ValleyGary said:
ianment on the previous page.Uboat said:
Who said that?alan dugdale said:I’ve seen it all now. “Churchill was a shit who got lucky”.
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Facts really do matter @AdTheAddicK . I'm not offended and have not said I am offended - As a matter of fact I disagreed ( that's different being offended) with the original poster , our friend @Greenie who was , at least as far as I could make out offended himself with the young chap from the SNP.AdTheAddicK said:
It's not scary HolyJo it's terrifying. No need to apologise. I'm sure there will be another topic you'll be offended by next week.holyjo said:
I am very proud of lots of things to do with being British.AdTheAddicK said:Its beyond belief. Seems to be wrong now to be proud of being British. You can't without being called a racist or whatever. Few decades ago people like that ginger kid would be put into sectioning. Now they've got a platform to spout utter sh!t and it's infecting snowflakes at a rate of knots. Scary stuff
I've not however been a big fan of Eugenics , using the army to attack civilians , or racial supremacism . You are right that in the past you might be sectioned or imprisoned for expressing such views. On occasions that's how people in those days dealt with legitimate challenge or opposition.
I'm sorry that a challenge to your world view is so scary ......... perhaps you are more of a snowflake than those you accuse0 -
You sound offended Uboat. Have some time in your safe spaceUboat said:
Seriously, re-read the last two pages. You are the only offended person on here.AdTheAddicK said:
It's not scary HolyJo it's terrifying. No need to apologise. I'm sure there will be another topic you'll be offended by next week.holyjo said:
I am very proud of lots of things to do with being British.AdTheAddicK said:Its beyond belief. Seems to be wrong now to be proud of being British. You can't without being called a racist or whatever. Few decades ago people like that ginger kid would be put into sectioning. Now they've got a platform to spout utter sh!t and it's infecting snowflakes at a rate of knots. Scary stuff
I've not however been a big fan of Eugenics , using the army to attack civilians , or racial supremacism . You are right that in the past you might be sectioned or imprisoned for expressing such views. On occasions that's how people in those days dealt with legitimate challenge or opposition.
I'm sorry that a challenge to your world view is so scary ......... perhaps you are more of a snowflake than those you accuse0 -
Churchill was a great leader when we most needed one. But that doesn't mean he didn't make mistakes or have views that by today's standards are pretty reprehensible. Both can be true at once.1
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You're nor going to get it, are you.AdTheAddicK said:
You sound offended Uboat. Have some time in your safe spaceUboat said:
Seriously, re-read the last two pages. You are the only offended person on here.AdTheAddicK said:
It's not scary HolyJo it's terrifying. No need to apologise. I'm sure there will be another topic you'll be offended by next week.holyjo said:
I am very proud of lots of things to do with being British.AdTheAddicK said:Its beyond belief. Seems to be wrong now to be proud of being British. You can't without being called a racist or whatever. Few decades ago people like that ginger kid would be put into sectioning. Now they've got a platform to spout utter sh!t and it's infecting snowflakes at a rate of knots. Scary stuff
I've not however been a big fan of Eugenics , using the army to attack civilians , or racial supremacism . You are right that in the past you might be sectioned or imprisoned for expressing such views. On occasions that's how people in those days dealt with legitimate challenge or opposition.
I'm sorry that a challenge to your world view is so scary ......... perhaps you are more of a snowflake than those you accuse0 - Sponsored links:
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How could you not be offended by the state of that hair.holyjo said:
Facts really do matter @AdTheAddicK . I'm not offended and have not said I am offended - As a matter of fact I disagreed ( that's different being offended) with the original poster , our friend @Greenie who was , at least as far as I could make out offended himself with the young chap from the SNP.AdTheAddicK said:
It's not scary HolyJo it's terrifying. No need to apologise. I'm sure there will be another topic you'll be offended by next week.holyjo said:
I am very proud of lots of things to do with being British.AdTheAddicK said:Its beyond belief. Seems to be wrong now to be proud of being British. You can't without being called a racist or whatever. Few decades ago people like that ginger kid would be put into sectioning. Now they've got a platform to spout utter sh!t and it's infecting snowflakes at a rate of knots. Scary stuff
I've not however been a big fan of Eugenics , using the army to attack civilians , or racial supremacism . You are right that in the past you might be sectioned or imprisoned for expressing such views. On occasions that's how people in those days dealt with legitimate challenge or opposition.
I'm sorry that a challenge to your world view is so scary ......... perhaps you are more of a snowflake than those you accuse3 -
No I do get it. I just don't see why people need to shot a very iconic British leader down. He had his problems we all do. I'm sure we would be watching Charlton compete in the bundesliga, without him and others. I just feel people need something to get offended by and there only happy when there offended.Uboat said:
You're nor going to get it, are you.AdTheAddicK said:
You sound offended Uboat. Have some time in your safe spaceUboat said:
Seriously, re-read the last two pages. You are the only offended person on here.AdTheAddicK said:
It's not scary HolyJo it's terrifying. No need to apologise. I'm sure there will be another topic you'll be offended by next week.holyjo said:
I am very proud of lots of things to do with being British.AdTheAddicK said:Its beyond belief. Seems to be wrong now to be proud of being British. You can't without being called a racist or whatever. Few decades ago people like that ginger kid would be put into sectioning. Now they've got a platform to spout utter sh!t and it's infecting snowflakes at a rate of knots. Scary stuff
I've not however been a big fan of Eugenics , using the army to attack civilians , or racial supremacism . You are right that in the past you might be sectioned or imprisoned for expressing such views. On occasions that's how people in those days dealt with legitimate challenge or opposition.
I'm sorry that a challenge to your world view is so scary ......... perhaps you are more of a snowflake than those you accuse1 -
Who the F*** offended apart from you.AdTheAddicK said:
No I do get it. I just don't see why people need to shot a very iconic British leader down. He had his problems we all do. I'm sure we would be watching Charlton compete in the bundesliga, without him and others. I just feel people need something to get offended by and there only happy when there offended.Uboat said:
You're nor going to get it, are you.AdTheAddicK said:
You sound offended Uboat. Have some time in your safe spaceUboat said:
Seriously, re-read the last two pages. You are the only offended person on here.AdTheAddicK said:
It's not scary HolyJo it's terrifying. No need to apologise. I'm sure there will be another topic you'll be offended by next week.holyjo said:
I am very proud of lots of things to do with being British.AdTheAddicK said:Its beyond belief. Seems to be wrong now to be proud of being British. You can't without being called a racist or whatever. Few decades ago people like that ginger kid would be put into sectioning. Now they've got a platform to spout utter sh!t and it's infecting snowflakes at a rate of knots. Scary stuff
I've not however been a big fan of Eugenics , using the army to attack civilians , or racial supremacism . You are right that in the past you might be sectioned or imprisoned for expressing such views. On occasions that's how people in those days dealt with legitimate challenge or opposition.
I'm sorry that a challenge to your world view is so scary ......... perhaps you are more of a snowflake than those you accuse
This is people disagreeing about WC place in history. History is written by the winners so that's why there is a disparity of views. I am not offended that @Greenie sees the world very differently to me on this issue. I happen to disagree with him but because I am a grown up I can disagree with people an not be offended by their views. Blimey this is hard graft7 -
Welcome to the internet, a fascinating place that makes reasoned debate impossible.holyjo said:
Who the F*** offended apart from you.AdTheAddicK said:
No I do get it. I just don't see why people need to shot a very iconic British leader down. He had his problems we all do. I'm sure we would be watching Charlton compete in the bundesliga, without him and others. I just feel people need something to get offended by and there only happy when there offended.Uboat said:
You're nor going to get it, are you.AdTheAddicK said:
You sound offended Uboat. Have some time in your safe spaceUboat said:
Seriously, re-read the last two pages. You are the only offended person on here.AdTheAddicK said:
It's not scary HolyJo it's terrifying. No need to apologise. I'm sure there will be another topic you'll be offended by next week.holyjo said:
I am very proud of lots of things to do with being British.AdTheAddicK said:Its beyond belief. Seems to be wrong now to be proud of being British. You can't without being called a racist or whatever. Few decades ago people like that ginger kid would be put into sectioning. Now they've got a platform to spout utter sh!t and it's infecting snowflakes at a rate of knots. Scary stuff
I've not however been a big fan of Eugenics , using the army to attack civilians , or racial supremacism . You are right that in the past you might be sectioned or imprisoned for expressing such views. On occasions that's how people in those days dealt with legitimate challenge or opposition.
I'm sorry that a challenge to your world view is so scary ......... perhaps you are more of a snowflake than those you accuse
This is people disagreeing about WC place in history. History is written by the winners so that's why there is a disparity of views. I am not offended that @Greenie sees the world very differently to me on this issue. I happen to disagree with him but because I am a grown up I can disagree with people an not be offended by their views. Blimey this is hard graft
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It's a shame you didn't start with that then instead of mad rant about how scary you find modern life.AdTheAddicK said:
No I do get it. I just don't see why people need to shot a very iconic British leader down. He had his problems we all do. I'm sure we would be watching Charlton compete in the bundesliga, without him and others. I just feel people need something to get offended by and there only happy when there offended.Uboat said:
You're nor going to get it, are you.AdTheAddicK said:
You sound offended Uboat. Have some time in your safe spaceUboat said:
Seriously, re-read the last two pages. You are the only offended person on here.AdTheAddicK said:
It's not scary HolyJo it's terrifying. No need to apologise. I'm sure there will be another topic you'll be offended by next week.holyjo said:
I am very proud of lots of things to do with being British.AdTheAddicK said:Its beyond belief. Seems to be wrong now to be proud of being British. You can't without being called a racist or whatever. Few decades ago people like that ginger kid would be put into sectioning. Now they've got a platform to spout utter sh!t and it's infecting snowflakes at a rate of knots. Scary stuff
I've not however been a big fan of Eugenics , using the army to attack civilians , or racial supremacism . You are right that in the past you might be sectioned or imprisoned for expressing such views. On occasions that's how people in those days dealt with legitimate challenge or opposition.
I'm sorry that a challenge to your world view is so scary ......... perhaps you are more of a snowflake than those you accuse0 -
Dived in the deep end didn't IUboat said:
It's a shame you didn't start with that then instead of mad rant about how scary you find modern life.AdTheAddicK said:
No I do get it. I just don't see why people need to shot a very iconic British leader down. He had his problems we all do. I'm sure we would be watching Charlton compete in the bundesliga, without him and others. I just feel people need something to get offended by and there only happy when there offended.Uboat said:
You're nor going to get it, are you.AdTheAddicK said:
You sound offended Uboat. Have some time in your safe spaceUboat said:
Seriously, re-read the last two pages. You are the only offended person on here.AdTheAddicK said:
It's not scary HolyJo it's terrifying. No need to apologise. I'm sure there will be another topic you'll be offended by next week.holyjo said:
I am very proud of lots of things to do with being British.AdTheAddicK said:Its beyond belief. Seems to be wrong now to be proud of being British. You can't without being called a racist or whatever. Few decades ago people like that ginger kid would be put into sectioning. Now they've got a platform to spout utter sh!t and it's infecting snowflakes at a rate of knots. Scary stuff
I've not however been a big fan of Eugenics , using the army to attack civilians , or racial supremacism . You are right that in the past you might be sectioned or imprisoned for expressing such views. On occasions that's how people in those days dealt with legitimate challenge or opposition.
I'm sorry that a challenge to your world view is so scary ......... perhaps you are more of a snowflake than those you accuse0 -
All that's good about CL in one thread.
Starts off as 'Piers Morgan' and escalates to Churchill, WWII, Hitler, posters being offended/not being offended, racism, snowflakes and Charlton in the Bundesliga.17 -
Saw 77 new posts and thought Morgan had changed his mind on Greggs vegan sausage roll!1
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I thought he'd popped his clogs.
I hope this has been linked from the argument thread.
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Basically everyone born when Churchill was born would, in today’s times, be seen as horrifically racist.
You cannot judge some one from history in the context of today’s morality, since morality is constantly changing.8
