Why do you think tobacco companies have historically spent so much on marketing? If it genuinely made no difference, fags would already be in plain packets.
Of course marketing makes a difference to sales but the reason they have different packets is to differentiate between brands. Again, I know of not one person who has become a smoker because of the packet. Do you?
Correction, you know not one person who is aware or will admit that they became a smoker because of the packet. The fact is, by having cigarettes out on display in sweet shops behind the Mars bars, children become used to seeing them. They become a part of their sub-conscious from a very early age. This must influence the likelihood of said child taking up smoking at a later date.
I think I'll stick with my own version, rather than your 'correction', as it bears more resemblance to reality. Children do not become smokers because they've seen the packets in shops. They become smokers because their parents are smokers or because their friends are smokers or they are frequently exposed to environments in which smoking is the norm (or at least tolerated) or they have a role model who smokes and they want to emulate them.
"they are frequently exposed to environments in which smoking is the norm". You said it yourself.
Anyway, I thought this thread was about alcohol? Speaking of which, only 90 minutes until pub time!
when I worked on the medical press a few years back GP's had one of the highest levels of Alcohol abuse, and although I think eduction has a part to play in this, the culture of going out and getting 'continually pissed' is both rather sad, and not a little boring. I recognised 45 years ago that a life of drink and over indulgence in various social pleasures could not be sustained, I suppose the medical evidence was not as it is today. I gave up smoking, and a certain way of life/culture otherwise I may well have ended up like some of my friends dead. My mother died of smoking, I begged her to stop, but she was hooked like a junkie. Did she realise this was killing her, of course she did. Addiction is a very complex issue, and often the first casualty is the honesty to recognise you have an addiction. We have always had a very strange attitude to drink in this country.......
I am in the pub on my third pint. Technically binge drinking according to the powers that be. I didn't start smoking because of the pretty packs. I did because i was cool at school. I have brought b&h before because of the fancy contraptions they put on their boxes to open them. i particularly like the new slide box
I like to drink fast in short periods. I hardly ever go to the pub before 9 because I like a deadline. I like to have 5 or 6 pints in a session that doesn't last much more than 2 hours. So I'm a "binge drinker"? I don't fight, throw up or cause any criminal damge on the way home. Well unless I'm driving........ Seriously though, it's my choice and I won't be changing.
If you fancy a real treat, next time you go to the doctor ask for the leaflet about practical ways to inject heroin. The leaflet helpfully tells you the best way to ingest class A drugs. The doctor is obliged to provide a copy and is bound not to tell anyone else.
I'll get the wife to give that a go. Mind you she's only seeing the midwife so that might raise a few eyebrows
Why do you think tobacco companies have historically spent so much on marketing? If it genuinely made no difference, fags would already be in plain packets.
Of course marketing makes a difference to sales but the reason they have different packets is to differentiate between brands. Again, I know of not one person who has become a smoker because of the packet. Do you?
Correction, you know not one person who is aware or will admit that they became a smoker because of the packet. The fact is, by having cigarettes out on display in sweet shops behind the Mars bars, children become used to seeing them. They become a part of their sub-conscious from a very early age. This must influence the likelihood of said child taking up smoking at a later date.
I think I'll stick with my own version, rather than your 'correction', as it bears more resemblance to reality. Children do not become smokers because they've seen the packets in shops. They become smokers because their parents are smokers or because their friends are smokers or they are frequently exposed to environments in which smoking is the norm (or at least tolerated) or they have a role model who smokes and they want to emulate them.
There's truth in both sides of this. To start smoking you need a) to try the product and b) it needs to be readily available. The governments half hearted strategy of hiding them in plain packets or behind the counter may or may not work. However, it is also fighting the tobacco companies who have their own strategies.
I worked for some years for a major tobacco company whom I won't name, who ran a project in the late 90's called LAMPS. Legal Aged Meeting Places, where they promoted their existing and new brands. Now, we all know the age group who frequent Legal Aged Meeting Places, in theory over 18's, in practise 15-18 year olds.
In my mind at the time it seemed ludicrous to be launching new brands of ciggies in the UK, but they managed to keep their market share before putting this project to bed.
As a non-smoker and father I could not sit comfortably with the way they dealt with this, and left the job.
As with Murdoch, previous Governments have cuddled up to the tobacco companies as a source of income, but now find they have more than a hot potato on their hands.
When we signed up with a doctors in our area, we had to answer a few questions about how much we drank. I downplayed it and said about 5 glasses of wine a week, and then got an extra leaflet given to me about liver damage/heart disease/AA groups etc. blimey, if they knew how much I really drank! Having said that, I dont drink shots, I have only forgotton a whole night's events once. I've never been carried home. I dont actually know what the 'average drinker' spends on booze but I think their 'guidelines' are misguided!
If you fancy a real treat, next time you go to the doctor ask for the leaflet about practical ways to inject heroin. The leaflet helpfully tells you the best way to ingest class A drugs. The doctor is obliged to provide a copy and is bound not to tell anyone else.
That's bonkers! Whilst talking about baffling doctor related conversations. That same doctors assistant who offered me advice on the perils of drinking more than 5 glasses of wine a week also asked me why I moved from Sidcup to this area and changed doctors. She said although she moved from Sidcup herself 4 years ago she kept the same doctor in Sidcup because she couldnt find a doctors that had a white doctor anywhere else. I was gobsmacked.
Anyone remember yesterday's budget? Thought not. Is it more than a coincidence that the Tories have apparently changed their mind on this issue and released the news the day after the budget?
Anyway, I'm pretty fed up with supermarkets making alcohol its loss leaders as it means that the food prices are adjusted upowards to cover the losses on booze. I see no compelling reason why, in addition to losing out on my pension prospects yesterday, I should be expected to continue subsidising heavy drinkers.
The following gives an indication of what the costs are likely to be ;-
A £2.99 bottle of red wine, containing 9.4 units of alcohol, would be priced up to £3.76 Cheap, strong lager at 75p a can, with three units per can, would become at least £1.20 Bulk-bought strong cider, costing 87p a can and containing four units, would almost double to at least £1.60 Cheap supermarket whisky at £16.10, with 40 units of alcohol, would probably be unchanged in price.
Make the Pubs shut earlier again and people will not have time to drink at home before hand.
Also when i was young you could drink at 15/16. You went to your local pub got a beer and sat in the corner quietly. If you got Billy Large Plums you were soon sorted out. Every town had it's under age pubs and the Police knew where they were.
These days Kids have no option but to get drunk in parks or on street corners with no body to keep them in check.
I also believe it taught you to respect your Elders a little more as you would end up talking to them in your local and form lose friendships with people of all ages and walks of life.
So agree with this, rigorous enforcement of proving your age has denied so many the chance to do their apprenticeship and learn respect.
Obviously that cannot be reversed now - sad though
A) Rush out to Tesco's fill up the Fridge & garage before the prices go sky high?
or
Turf the kids out of the 3rd bedroom which is used as a games roon and get into home brewing?
The article below is a comment from a guy who posted on the Evening Standard original link , has he got it sussed or is he a loon?
At the ROOMATTHETOP ARMS here in Devon, all beer is priced at 22p a pint. Cider is only 18p a pint, and our fine selection of wines is around 61p a bottle for red and around 68p for white. We also do a very nice hock for 52p a bottle and Rose wine for cheaper than that. Why is it so cheap? Because it's all home made. You buy your kits from the home brewing shop, and remember, there's no alcohol in it at all until you do the brewing process after adding yeast and allowing it ferment. Forty pint kits are available and there are dozens of different kinds of beers. Ten times better than the gassy foul manufactured cats' pee they sell in supermarkets, and no additives. You don't get a hangover and it is real beer. You can buy hops, barley, the lot. Brew your own, folks. Send the big international brewers packing! Also, Mr Tesco, Mr Asda, Mr Morrison and Lord Sainsbury, my bread's better than yours, too. At just 22p a loaf made from Canadian flour from the health food shop, it's ten times more tasty than supermarket cotton wool. My vegetables are all fresh, grown on my allotment with lovely King Edward potatoes, carrots, runner beans, onions, brussels sprouts and cabbages. You get a vacuum sealer and freeze the lot without blanching so you can have winter vegetables in summer. We eat wonderfully in this household, with a wide variety of food, including Chinese meals with beansprouts and spring onions. Haven't been a supermarket for weeks and weeks. Our meat comes from a local butcher who does freezer packs and we know exactly which farm it comes from. DIG FOR VICTORY! You can live for next to nothing. You can grow enough spuds, tomatoes and lettuce throughout the summer on a balcony if you're in the city. There's no excuse.
It's about time the Alcohol in supermarkets are increased. Not because it could possibly cut binge drinkers , it could possibly attract more people to go to the pub before attending night clubs and the pub landlords would have more control who to serve.
They should do a special deal for pub landlords who want to buy beers from brewers and supermarkets for a reasonable discount. This will encourage more people going into pubs because the price would be lower than what would be in Tesco and the pubs will have more people coming and a greater atmosphere.
Unfortunatly, people opted to buy beers from Tesco because they are cheaper and now with all these taxes the current and last goverment have been introducing has put the price of beer up in pubs which is making it worse. In my local is a note from the landlord explaining why beers are increasing due to the taxes. Running a pub is a very expensive business these days, compared to 15 yeras ago.
So if I understand rightly, the retailers are obliged to sell at a minimum cost, but the government makes only the extra bit of VAT, the retailer keeps the rest?
If that is the case, isn't it just another example of he Tories looking after their mates in big business by artificially increasing their profits?
A) Rush out to Tesco's fill up the Fridge & garage before the prices go sky high?
or
Turf the kids out of the 3rd bedroom which is used as a games roon and get into home brewing?
The article below is a comment from a guy who posted on the Evening Standard original link , has he got it sussed or is he a loon?
At the ROOMATTHETOP ARMS here in Devon, all beer is priced at 22p a pint. Cider is only 18p a pint, and our fine selection of wines is around 61p a bottle for red and around 68p for white. We also do a very nice hock for 52p a bottle and Rose wine for cheaper than that. Why is it so cheap? Because it's all home made. You buy your kits from the home brewing shop, and remember, there's no alcohol in it at all until you do the brewing process after adding yeast and allowing it ferment. Forty pint kits are available and there are dozens of different kinds of beers. Ten times better than the gassy foul manufactured cats' pee they sell in supermarkets, and no additives. You don't get a hangover and it is real beer. You can buy hops, barley, the lot. Brew your own, folks. Send the big international brewers packing! Also, Mr Tesco, Mr Asda, Mr Morrison and Lord Sainsbury, my bread's better than yours, too. At just 22p a loaf made from Canadian flour from the health food shop, it's ten times more tasty than supermarket cotton wool. My vegetables are all fresh, grown on my allotment with lovely King Edward potatoes, carrots, runner beans, onions, brussels sprouts and cabbages. You get a vacuum sealer and freeze the lot without blanching so you can have winter vegetables in summer. We eat wonderfully in this household, with a wide variety of food, including Chinese meals with beansprouts and spring onions. Haven't been a supermarket for weeks and weeks. Our meat comes from a local butcher who does freezer packs and we know exactly which farm it comes from. DIG FOR VICTORY! You can live for next to nothing. You can grow enough spuds, tomatoes and lettuce throughout the summer on a balcony if you're in the city. There's no excuse.
Since I've spent the vast majority of the last 3 years out of work, I've gone into production and close to 100% of the wine I drink I make myself. I also brew beer, but I don't like to do both at the same time as I'm worried that the beer yeast will affect the wine or (more likely) the wine yeast will affect the beer.
Sorry Off_it but, as I often say, the EU calls the shots and little Georgie and Teresa just might have dropped a bollock with their Granny Tax distraction scheme...
Curious, pubs are shutting at a rate of ten a week and yet the number of alcohol related deaths has risen to around 6500 a year. Meanwhile the supermarkets continue to advertise and market cheap beer/alcopop drinks and encourage buying large quantities of alcohol and have been steadily doing so for the last decade. Perhaps there should be limits on what and how the supermarkets price and sell alcohol rather than on the price pf alcohol per unit?
Comments
Anyway, I thought this thread was about alcohol? Speaking of which, only 90 minutes until pub time!
My mother died of smoking, I begged her to stop, but she was hooked like a junkie. Did she realise this was killing her, of course she did.
Addiction is a very complex issue, and often the first casualty is the honesty to recognise you have an addiction.
We have always had a very strange attitude to drink in this country.......
Anyhoo, yes we are getting off topic although it is a related subject. Don't see any moves to ban branding and labels on beer cans and wine bottles!
Bastards!!
I didn't start smoking because of the pretty packs. I did because i was cool at school.
I have brought b&h before because of the fancy contraptions they put on their boxes to open them. i particularly like the new slide box
Seriously though, it's my choice and I won't be changing.
After the health taliban got fags banned they decided to pick on someone else. ie anyone who likes a drink ( any drink).
After this it will be minimum price for meat " its causing global warming ", then non organic veg "its killing people causing cancer " etc etc.
Its time we told these people to shut up.
Who funds these think tanks anyway ?
Definition of an alcoholic: someone who drinks more than their doctor.
I worked for some years for a major tobacco company whom I won't name, who ran a project in the late 90's called LAMPS. Legal Aged Meeting Places, where they promoted their existing and new brands. Now, we all know the age group who frequent Legal Aged Meeting Places, in theory over 18's, in practise 15-18 year olds.
In my mind at the time it seemed ludicrous to be launching new brands of ciggies in the UK, but they managed to keep their market share before putting this project to bed.
As a non-smoker and father I could not sit comfortably with the way they dealt with this, and left the job.
As with Murdoch, previous Governments have cuddled up to the tobacco companies as a source of income, but now find they have more than a hot potato on their hands.
Whilst talking about baffling doctor related conversations. That same doctors assistant who offered me advice on the perils of drinking more than 5 glasses of wine a week also asked me why I moved from Sidcup to this area and changed doctors. She said although she moved from Sidcup herself 4 years ago she kept the same doctor in Sidcup because she couldnt find a doctors that had a white doctor anywhere else.
I was gobsmacked.
Anyway, I'm pretty fed up with supermarkets making alcohol its loss leaders as it means that the food prices are adjusted upowards to cover the losses on booze. I see no compelling reason why, in addition to losing out on my pension prospects yesterday, I should be expected to continue subsidising heavy drinkers.
The following gives an indication of what the costs are likely to be ;-
A £2.99 bottle of red wine, containing 9.4 units of alcohol, would be priced up to £3.76
Cheap, strong lager at 75p a can, with three units per can, would become at least £1.20
Bulk-bought strong cider, costing 87p a can and containing four units, would almost double to at least £1.60
Cheap supermarket whisky at £16.10, with 40 units of alcohol, would probably be unchanged in price.
A) Rush out to Tesco's fill up the Fridge & garage before the prices go sky high?
or
The article below is a comment from a guy who posted on the Evening Standard original link , has he got it sussed or is he a loon?
At the ROOMATTHETOP ARMS here in Devon, all beer is priced at 22p a pint. Cider is only 18p a pint, and our fine selection of wines is around 61p a bottle for red and around 68p for white. We also do a very nice hock for 52p a bottle and Rose wine for cheaper than that. Why is it so cheap? Because it's all home made. You buy your kits from the home brewing shop, and remember, there's no alcohol in it at all until you do the brewing process after adding yeast and allowing it ferment. Forty pint kits are available and there are dozens of different kinds of beers. Ten times better than the gassy foul manufactured cats' pee they sell in supermarkets, and no additives. You don't get a hangover and it is real beer. You can buy hops, barley, the lot. Brew your own, folks. Send the big international brewers packing! Also, Mr Tesco, Mr Asda, Mr Morrison and Lord Sainsbury, my bread's better than yours, too. At just 22p a loaf made from Canadian flour from the health food shop, it's ten times more tasty than supermarket cotton wool. My vegetables are all fresh, grown on my allotment with lovely King Edward potatoes, carrots, runner beans, onions, brussels sprouts and cabbages. You get a vacuum sealer and freeze the lot without blanching so you can have winter vegetables in summer. We eat wonderfully in this household, with a wide variety of food, including Chinese meals with beansprouts and spring onions. Haven't been a supermarket for weeks and weeks. Our meat comes from a local butcher who does freezer packs and we know exactly which farm it comes from. DIG FOR VICTORY! You can live for next to nothing. You can grow enough spuds, tomatoes and lettuce throughout the summer on a balcony if you're in the city. There's no excuse.
They should do a special deal for pub landlords who want to buy beers from brewers and supermarkets for a reasonable discount. This will encourage more people going into pubs because the price would be lower than what would be in Tesco and the pubs will have more people coming and a greater atmosphere.
Unfortunatly, people opted to buy beers from Tesco because they are cheaper and now with all these taxes the current and last goverment have been introducing has put the price of beer up in pubs which is making it worse. In my local is a note from the landlord explaining why beers are increasing due to the taxes. Running a pub is a very expensive business these days, compared to 15 yeras ago.
If that is the case, isn't it just another example of he Tories looking after their mates in big business by artificially increasing their profits?
I say Go For It!! If he's a loon, so am I.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8321546.stm
It will make a novel change if the EU's dictatorship over us proves beneficial rather than repressive for once...
'Someone you don't like that drinks as much as you do.'