Think it goes to prove how little thought the footballing authorities actually give to where tournaments are held and crass stupidity in awarding it to a country where right wing football hooliganism is part and parcel of the game. FIFA, UEFA and to some extent the footballing authorities here are on the whole run by a bunch of people that I wouldn't let organise my sock draw. The decision to let it take place in the Ukraine is second only in stupidity to awarding the world cup to Quatar. The mind boggles.
Do you really think the FA, UEFA or FIFA give a sh*t about the fans going to the games, all they care about is the money aspect of it. I bet platini won't give a monkeys if anything happens to the fans as long as the money is rolling in from the tv revenues and sponsorship deals.
Platini is a knob. A classic example of a person not fit to organise a sock draw.
Scare mongering? Every game he went to in Poland there was racist chanting, seig hail saluting, and neo nazi symbolism. In Ukraine a mob attack on asian fans, caught on camera. Fail to see how that is scare mongering unless you are questioning the reporters/ Panoramas motives or choice of subject. Anyone who doesn't look Polish is not likely to have a good time going by that, and is well advised not to bother.
Swords alive - the timing mate!! Just before a tournament!!!
These probolems have been rife there for years yet in 2009 when 2,000 England fans (including myself and including black england fans) travelled to Ukraine for our qualifier, no one gave a monkeys!!
And in case anyone is not aware, we have Poland and Ukraine in our qualifying group for 2014, when again, the Country and the media will not give a shit, when we travel out there, in to what is usually a much worse atmosphere than at a tournament.
Their will be trouble their but only if you go looking for it, but same happens if you go to any match in England,this documentary I honestly believe was a lot of hype that will make them think they have to play up but the same happened back with te icf, they want all the exposure. It's part of it for them. Saying that it's still not a place to go with the family.
Last time this topic came up, it was suggested by some that any England fans who end up in troule out there must have had it coming. Hope people realise how stupid those comments
No. It wasn't. That was your interpretation of the point being made. It was also pointed out that you seem to gravite to threads on this subject and here you are again.
On the subject of the documentary, not sure there was too much in it to surprise except the scaleof the issue. I expected to see pockets of this sort of behaviour but was truly shocked and appalled to see literally 1000's of these moronic scum doing their thing. Very sad this is still happening indeed.
Saw something on YouTube the other day about this. Ukrainian Ultras were training in gyms underground, 7 days a week. Just so they can beat the shit out of foreign fans. Who will be the first team to boycott the competition as I won't be surprised if there is one.
The worst bit of the program was the bloke who was in denial about racism. "Football fans in Ukraine are mostly friendly." "They were pointing."
It's so poor and everything Sol Campbell said was spot on. Don't travel and watch it on the box. Why risk coming back in a coffin?
Clearly the reason for the report being aired at this moment in time is because it's just before a tournament when potentially tens of thousands of English fans are travelling there. Doesn't mean the problems are any less real or any less frightening.
I didn't really see the point in Sol Campbell being on it.
He was on it because he's an Englishmen who has been a victim of racial abuse. He's a role model in society and I think the whole point of the program was to give fans travelling a heads up rather than a 'stay away'. I feel as if the message was needed and the documentary couldn't have come at a better time.
I haven't watched this Panorama yet, though I saw Wisla Krakow-Lech Poznan last year and there was indeed monkey chanting. I can't tar all of Poland with the same brush based on one match, but it was pretty disconcerting.
I don't think anything will happen in the grounds as generally the hardcore club fans there don't follow the national team there, but it could boil over on the streets between certain sets of fans.
Bournmouth I don't want to go over it again but it was insinuated (by whom i can't remember) that it was no surprise i had been attacked twice watching England play "funny how trouble follows some people around" or something like that. I know exactly how that particular comment was meant. Surely this programme highlighted that you don't have to want trouble to find it in these countries.
I do crop up on these threads cos I have an opinion, based on experience. Where as you just seem to want to dig me out?
Must have been a pretty big bung for Uefa to give this lot the euro's
Jesus wept.
Of course it's scare mongering. It's shown a week before the tournament has started!
When would you expect it to be shown ? If it's the timing and not the content that makes it Scare mongering in your eyes , then the BBC really can't win then , can they.
Beds, why show it at all, because nothing will be done about it. I'll travel to Poland in Oct and Ukraine next year for the qualifiers and the media won't give a monkeys about us. The black fans won't be warned then will they. But Poland and Ukraine will be just the same and we will have to get on with it.
I agree it was disgusting and shocking. Any indiscriminate violence is. But I don't think the media are showing it for the right reasons. They just want to hype it, cos that gets viewers and sells papers.
And it happens before every tournament!! All they will succeed in doing is worrying friends and relatives.
Did not see the programme, and neither did the Ukrainians or Poles, because they are in Ukraine or Poland, so how is it going to encourage them to live up to their reputation?
In all seriousness, Of course it was scare mongering...As others have said just before the tournament. A bit like how all English would be targeted in S Africa....Nothing!
A few of the 'face painted' brigade will get a shock though if they do the usual '-----'s a shithole' etc routine and expect to be able to hide behind other fans or the ob.
Whether it was scare mongering or not, they clearly have a problem there. UEFA does have to look at its decision making, FIFA too! They porporte to promote tolerance but condone countries that don't have it by letting them have tournaments there. They should be saying, you would have got the tournament but X stopped you. That may ultimately have more power, even if it is very little.
Last time this topic came up, it was suggested by some that any England fans who end up in troule out there must have had it coming. Hope people realise how stupid those comments
No. It wasn't. That was your....It was also pointed out that you seem to gravite to threads on this subject and here you are....
And here you are too Bournemouth. Are you The Guvnor ?
Yes, what ashame the only person on the forum to have been attacked in Ukraine had commented on this thread. Perhaps people will listen to first hand accounts instead if pasting judgement from now on? Or will it still require a BBC documentary?
It should've been released after they won the bid, too late now! I'm still looking forward to the trip.
I was in Kiev/Dnipro for the 2009 qualifier. We had no trouble and met some (older) fans who couldn't have been friendlier.
Having said that .... we met England fans who'd been mugged and/or beaten. It is definitely not a country for a relaxing trip (unlike, say, Oslo which I heard at the weekend was fantastic). In Dnipro (no matches in this tournament) - I remember Green getting bombarded with flares (no wonder he got himself sent off early) whereas all England fans were thoroughly searched for any weaponry. We were amazed at the defiance the local fans showed but it was no surprise that the subsequent England protests got nowhere with spineless UEFA. Also, after the match it seemed like the bulk of the crowd (by then unsegregated) were funnelled through a narrow gateway, potentially a very dangerous situation - the crush was appalling and not a good reflection on Ukrainian organisation.
Ill-health prevents me from going this time - I'm upset about that, but also relieved.
I thought was a fairly poor documentary, nothing new or surprising at all until the last 5 minutes which was genuinely sickening.
Sol told us little. He has been the victim of racial abuse. Unacceptable and awful, obviously. He is then shown footage of racist fans and says its unacceptable and awful. Obviously.
More and more I find the tone of this type of programme reminds me of the tv we watched at school. Good when I was 10, now just a patronising waste of licence fee.
The scaremongering aspect needs to be taken in the context that the vast majority going would now have their tickets and arranged travel. Ignoring the melodrama of 'coming home in a coffin', advising people not to travel at this stage - unless there is a genuine new threat - is laughable.
Lived in Slovakia for a couple of years and can confirm that they are racist and intolerant to anybody who has a disability. Saw a guide dog being attacked one day in the town and people laughing. I did step in and led the poor guy and his dog away. These central European countries certainly have a real hard core of ultra supporters. This is well known or so I thought, so why is it being brought to our attention 2 weeks before the tournament starts?
Last time this topic came up, it was suggested by some that any England fans who end up in troule out there must have had it coming. Hope people realise how stupid those comments
No. It wasn't. That was your....It was also pointed out that you seem to gravite to threads on this subject and here you are....
And here you are too Bournemouth. Are you The Guvnor ?
Got anything useful or interesting to add to the discussion? Nah, thought not just on the usual wind up.
Re:The Organiser I was a bit harsh on him last night as clearly he does have first hand experience of the subject matter and for that I apologise. I will assume his comment elsewhere about wishing I get a baton around the head was misguided and we move on...
Last time this topic came up, it was suggested by some that any England fans who end up in troule out there must have had it coming. Hope people realise how stupid those comments
No. It wasn't. That was your....It was also pointed out that you seem to gravite to threads on this subject and here you are....
And here you are too Bournemouth. Are you The Guvnor ?
Got anything useful or interesting to add to the discussion? Nah, thought not just on the usual wind up.
apart from the obvious, the thing that annoyed me most was any UEFA statement put out placed responsibility elsewhere ie the Ukranian/Polish authorities are responsible for controlling the racist/facist element. yes, they will be but you (UEFA) awarded them the finals and someone, somewhere within that organisation must have had an inkling this type of problem is prevalent.
zero tolerance-pah!
watching that programme last night made me think what a joke it is that the Euros have been awarded to these two countries.
Usual edited scare mongering bollocks. They are backward and 40 years behind us BUT it aint as bad as painted. Just think about how long they must spend out there with the INTENT on getting what they want, they get a few bits of film in grounds of idiot mainly kids doing nazi salutes and some pricks to talk to with wooden knives. This from a population of millions.
I hate these snide "documentaries" like the macintyre one - when they try their hardest to get what they want , fail and then dress it up as success when they get nothing.
As for the wronguns they featured i'd like to see a good 100 of ours go straight into em and teach em a lesson. Thats all it would take.
Comments
These probolems have been rife there for years yet in 2009 when 2,000 England fans (including myself and including black england fans) travelled to Ukraine for our qualifier, no one gave a monkeys!!
And in case anyone is not aware, we have Poland and Ukraine in our qualifying group for 2014, when again, the Country and the media will not give a shit, when we travel out there, in to what is usually a much worse atmosphere than at a tournament.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18233736
On the subject of the documentary, not sure there was too much in it to surprise except the scaleof the issue. I expected to see pockets of this sort of behaviour but was truly shocked and appalled to see literally 1000's of these moronic scum doing their thing. Very sad this is still happening indeed.
The worst bit of the program was the bloke who was in denial about racism. "Football fans in Ukraine are mostly friendly." "They were pointing."
It's so poor and everything Sol Campbell said was spot on. Don't travel and watch it on the box. Why risk coming back in a coffin?
I don't think anything will happen in the grounds as generally the hardcore club fans there don't follow the national team there, but it could boil over on the streets between certain sets of fans.
Surely this programme highlighted that you don't have to want trouble to find it in these countries.
I do crop up on these threads cos I have an opinion, based on experience. Where as you just seem to want to dig me out?
Well, yes in that sense but he hardly said anything other than ''ooh thats terrible''
I'll travel to Poland in Oct and Ukraine next year for the qualifiers and the media won't give a monkeys about us. The black fans won't be warned then will they. But Poland and Ukraine will be just the same and we will have to get on with it.
I agree it was disgusting and shocking. Any indiscriminate violence is. But I don't think the media are showing it for the right reasons. They just want to hype it, cos that gets viewers and sells papers.
And it happens before every tournament!! All they will succeed in doing is worrying friends and relatives.
In all seriousness, Of course it was scare mongering...As others have said just before the tournament. A bit like how all English would be targeted in S Africa....Nothing!
A few of the 'face painted' brigade will get a shock though if they do the usual '-----'s a shithole' etc routine and expect to be able to hide behind other fans or the ob.
It should've been released after they won the bid, too late now! I'm still looking forward to the trip.
Having said that .... we met England fans who'd been mugged and/or beaten. It is definitely not a country for a relaxing trip (unlike, say, Oslo which I heard at the weekend was fantastic). In Dnipro (no matches in this tournament) - I remember Green getting bombarded with flares (no wonder he got himself sent off early) whereas all England fans were thoroughly searched for any weaponry. We were amazed at the defiance the local fans showed but it was no surprise that the subsequent England protests got nowhere with spineless UEFA. Also, after the match it seemed like the bulk of the crowd (by then unsegregated) were funnelled through a narrow gateway, potentially a very dangerous situation - the crush was appalling and not a good reflection on Ukrainian organisation.
Ill-health prevents me from going this time - I'm upset about that, but also relieved.
Sol told us little. He has been the victim of racial abuse. Unacceptable and awful, obviously. He is then shown footage of racist fans and says its unacceptable and awful. Obviously.
More and more I find the tone of this type of programme reminds me of the tv we watched at school. Good when I was 10, now just a patronising waste of licence fee.
The scaremongering aspect needs to be taken in the context that the vast majority going would now have their tickets and arranged travel. Ignoring the melodrama of 'coming home in a coffin', advising people not to travel at this stage - unless there is a genuine new threat - is laughable.
Re:The Organiser I was a bit harsh on him last night as clearly he does have first hand experience of the subject matter and for that I apologise. I will assume his comment elsewhere about wishing I get a baton around the head was misguided and we move on...
basically i'm shit with computers and finding things, can some helpful chap/chapess stick a link up if it comes on there
cheers in advance
zero tolerance-pah!
watching that programme last night made me think what a joke it is that the Euros have been awarded to these two countries.
I hate these snide "documentaries" like the macintyre one - when they try their hardest to get what they want , fail and then dress it up as success when they get nothing.
As for the wronguns they featured i'd like to see a good 100 of ours go straight into em and teach em a lesson. Thats all it would take.