I remember a documentary about racism in English football. Part was shot at The Valley in Mar 98. The reporter referred to a flag being displayed in the Jimmy Seed showing "NF" - our visitors that day were N-ottingham F-orest .... geddit ? He didn't.
Or the pricks that thought Brighton were singing Seig Heil at Millwall.
Until the Ukraine have been offically charged which some kind of racists / violent acts in an European / International match UEFA can't really take it upon themselves to ban them from hosting a competition. And I don't think violence outside a game is really something they can act on either. There was a large amount of violence and racism in UK football before Liverpool openly attacked Italian fans in an European competition which led to the ban. I imgine if something happens, in the stadiums, during the competition then UEFA will act, but you can't really expect recrimination before conviction. I know this offers little comfort to those who are the victims, but justic states that there has to be a victim before there can be a conviction.
I remember a documentary about racism in English football. Part was shot at The Valley in Mar 98. The reporter referred to a flag being displayed in the Jimmy Seed showing "NF" - our visitors that day were N-ottingham F-orest .... geddit ? He didn't.
Produced and directed by the madman that is Darcus Howe.
Saw something on YouTube the other day about this. Ukrainian Ultras were training in gyms underground, 7 days a week. Just so they can beat the shit out of foreign fans.
Gotta admire that dedication and get up and go. Don't imagine Palace ultras have seen the inside of a gym let alone practised their skills.
DRF - that point would be valid if they treated every country the same but they don't.
We were threatened with expulsion from euro 2000 when a few drunken idiots had a chair throwing comp with the Germans OUTSIDE the ground.
Turkey play up inside and outside for yonks and get nothing - as I said they will probably host euro 2020.
Racism is rife at games in most of Europe and nothings done, yet the second a small group of Eng fans chanted 'id rather be a paki than a turk' at SOL in a game played on egg shells', we were threatened again.
Double standards - always has been, always will be.
Bournmouth, no worries. The batton comment was purely a response to the comments aimed at me and obv was not meant literally, but an attempt to get my point accross. We'll move on.
I haven't watched this Panorama yet, though I saw Wisla Krakow-Lech Poznan last year and there was indeed monkey chanting. I can't tar all of Poland with the same brush based on one match, but it was pretty disconcerting.
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Well if it's good enough for the World Champion's fans...
I suspect it may have been a bit overdone. There is a nasty racist element at Czech games too, but generally I don't go for the opposite reason, there is no soul in the league games, everyone goes along to laugh at the incompetence and corruption of it all, it generally has no atmosphere. Viktoria Plzen was an exception but even there the atmosphere is dead more often than not. Most of the ultra crews at most games look younger and less intimidating than Fulham in full cry.
But the entire tournament is a disgraceful shambles. I'd have gone but couldn't get tickets through normal channels to save my life. So having given up, imagine my fury when a couple of weeks ago I get an email from UEFA saying the ticket portal has 're-opened". Sure enough there were loads of tickets for, e.g. Czech-Russia, a game we had targetted and been told 'sold out' several months earlier. But even if we had tickets, where would we stay, and how would we get there? In our 50's we are not staying in a bloody campsite, thank you very much. Both countries have failed to deliver on their promises, motorways have not been built, and many places are totally off the European transport map. Lvov, lovely city, but how the hell you gonna get there other than by special chartered flight?.
Utter complete joke, but as someone else said, UEFA don't care, so long as the money rolls in, often to places it shouldn't, I suspect. Same as FIFA, same as the IOC.
South Africa was going to be a bloodbath. Japan and South Korea was going to be too hot, all you'd get to eat was going to be dogs and the police were all radge. Brasil isn't going to have stadia ready and all the fans will be kidnapped and bummed. The US will split the games up into eighths and everyone will be forced to eat a bucket of cheese. Basically every tournament outside of western europe will mean near certain death for any supporter reckless enough to attend/or them being forced to participate in insane local customs.
I do recall a mobs smashing up several towns last time there was a tournament here and any German cars in Trafalgar Square getting the treatment, so maybe the high-handed view of foreigners is a bit over the top.
It wasn't long ago that our most beloved footballing icons were displaying an openly racist attitude. Things moved on here, and that's great, but the absolute horror and disgust at countries that are further back on the advancement scale is rather rich given the treatment dished out to players here less than 20 years ago when we had high educational standards and a high level of immigration.
I thought the violence aspect of the documentary was secondary (other than the vile beatings at the end). The point was that there is a large minority of anti-Semites with racist/xenophobic behaviour being openly aggressive at the grounds where a high profile international tournament is being held with little authority intervention.
You'll not get to see that at the Euros because those fans will simply not be there. I'm astounded (well I'm not really) that UEFA did not comment.
I thought the violence aspect of the documentary was secondary (other than the vile beatings at the end). The point was that there is a large minority of anti-Semites with racist/xenophobic behaviour being openly aggressive at the grounds where a high profile international tournament is being held with little authority intervention.
You'll not get to see that at the Euros because those fans will simply not be there. I'm astounded (well I'm not really) that UEFA did not comment.
How do you know it was a large minority? The only time they showed the crowd was when it was zoomed in so far you couldn't see the rest of the stadium, for all we know there were tens of idiots doing this in a crowd of a few thousand.
You'll not get to see that at the Euros because those fans will simply not be there.
What makes you think that?
In the grounds I meant - I'm sure you'll be chasing them up and down the streets before and after!
I thought the violence aspect of the documentary was secondary (other than the vile beatings at the end). The point was that there is a large minority of anti-Semites with racist/xenophobic behaviour being openly aggressive at the grounds where a high profile international tournament is being held with little authority intervention.
You'll not get to see that at the Euros because those fans will simply not be there. I'm astounded (well I'm not really) that UEFA did not comment.
How do you know it was a large minority? The only time they showed the crowd was when it was zoomed in so far you couldn't see the rest of the stadium, for all we know there were tens of idiots doing this in a crowd of a few thousand.
They showed pretty much whole ends involved and it was certainly into 100s rather than 10s. Certainly a larger minority than not at the grounds featured.
Until the Ukraine have been offically charged which some kind of racists / violent acts in an European / International match UEFA can't really take it upon themselves to ban them from hosting a competition. And I don't think violence outside a game is really something they can act on either. There was a large amount of violence and racism in UK football before Liverpool openly attacked Italian fans in an European competition which led to the ban. I imgine if something happens, in the stadiums, during the competition then UEFA will act, but you can't really expect recrimination before conviction. I know this offers little comfort to those who are the victims, but justic states that there has to be a victim before there can be a conviction.
They don't have to ban them - they just have to factor it into their decision making.
I read yesterday that Man City players were racially abused, costing Porto £30k in a UEFA fine, but when City were a minute late for kick-off, they were fined £50k!
Didn't we get accused of making monkey noises when we sung " who let the frogs out who, who who?" at Marcel Desailly?
No, we were just told to stop singing that particular song at half time I think as it was deemed to be racist chanting.
South Africa was going to be a bloodbath. Japan and South Korea was going to be too hot, all you'd get to eat was going to be dogs and the police were all radge. Brasil isn't going to have stadia ready and all the fans will be kidnapped and bummed. The US will split the games up into eighths and everyone will be forced to eat a bucket of cheese. Basically every tournament outside of western europe will mean near certain death for any supporter reckless enough to attend/or them being forced to participate in insane local customs.
I do recall a mobs smashing up several towns last time there was a tournament here and any German cars in Trafalgar Square getting the treatment, so maybe the high-handed view of foreigners is a bit over the top.
It wasn't long ago that our most beloved footballing icons were displaying an openly racist attitude. Things moved on here, and that's great, but the absolute horror and disgust at countries that are further back on the advancement scale is rather rich given the treatment dished out to players here less than 20 years ago when we had high educational standards and a high level of immigration.
I have to disagree with this. Wasn't Germany supposed to be a bloodbath as well? I think you mean any tournament outside of the UK?
And can someone explain what a large minority is. Opposite to the small majority I suppose?
A minority is a number that is less than half the number. So I'd suggest that say 40 out of 100 would be a large minority whilst 5 out of 100 would be a small minority.
Far out just watche it on you tube... Totally nutters ready to hurt people... There will be some clashes for sure.... And no doubt the English will get loads of blame as its the biggest thing that sells newspapers at home and abroad... Even if we are just defending ourselves... Which on the evidence of that we will have to.... Appalling decision to award the tournament to these guys..
I would say 10 our of 100 is a large minority - even 5 out of 100 is a significant minority if you are talking about violent Nazis. But do we know the figures- I doubt it.
One fifth of the Polish population was killed during the second world war and the Ukrainians were also treated brutally and now they're neo-Nazis. This is weird.
One fifth of the Polish population was killed during the second world war and the Ukrainians were also treated brutally and now they're neo-Nazis. This is weird.
I think you need to understand your history a little better. It does not follow that just because the Einsatzgruppen killed many Ukrainains and Poles that they should now all be anti-Nazi. The Nazis bombed London yet the BNP seem to pick up a lot of votes...
Many Ukrainains fought on the side of the Nazis - they hated Stalin for the purges and the the famine that his collectivisation policies in the 1930s caused. Look up the "HiWis or Hilfswilliger (Willing helpers) and after WWII one of the most shameless things we did was send back to the USSR many Cossacks who had either fought for the Nazis or who expressed no desire to go home. I doubt many of them lived more than a few days once they returned.
One fifth of the Polish population was killed during the second world war and the Ukrainians were also treated brutally and now they're neo-Nazis. This is weird.
I think you need to understand your history a little better. It does not follow that just because the Einsatzgruppen killed many Ukrainains and Poles that they should now all be anti-Nazi. The Nazis bombed London yet the BNP seem to pick up a lot of votes...
Many Ukrainains fought on the side of the Nazis - they hated Stalin for the purges and the the famine that his collectivisation policies in the 1930s caused. Look up the "HiWis or Hilfswilliger (Willing helpers) and after WWII one of the most shameless things we did was send back to the USSR many Cossacks who had either fought for the Nazis or who expressed no desire to go home. I doubt many of them lived more than a few days once they returned.
I understand my history pretty well. The fact that the Einsatzgruppen killed many Ukrainians and Poles does mean that they should now all be anti-Nazi, don't you think? I stand by my statement that it's weird. I know that the Ukrainians supported the Nazis, but it didn't stop them getting treated like subhumans. As for the Poles, the Nazis saw them as only fractionally better than Jews, as you presumably know.
Comments
There was a large amount of violence and racism in UK football before Liverpool openly attacked Italian fans in an European competition which led to the ban. I imgine if something happens, in the stadiums, during the competition then UEFA will act, but you can't really expect recrimination before conviction.
I know this offers little comfort to those who are the victims, but justic states that there has to be a victim before there can be a conviction.
We were threatened with expulsion from euro 2000 when a few drunken idiots had a chair throwing comp with the Germans OUTSIDE the ground.
Turkey play up inside and outside for yonks and get nothing - as I said they will probably host euro 2020.
Racism is rife at games in most of Europe and nothings done, yet the second a small group of Eng fans chanted 'id rather be a paki than a turk' at SOL in a game played on egg shells', we were threatened again.
Double standards - always has been, always will be.
Sorry for going off-topic.
The batton comment was purely a response to the comments aimed at me and obv was not meant literally, but an attempt to get my point accross. We'll move on.
But the entire tournament is a disgraceful shambles. I'd have gone but couldn't get tickets through normal channels to save my life. So having given up, imagine my fury when a couple of weeks ago I get an email from UEFA saying the ticket portal has 're-opened". Sure enough there were loads of tickets for, e.g. Czech-Russia, a game we had targetted and been told 'sold out' several months earlier. But even if we had tickets, where would we stay, and how would we get there? In our 50's we are not staying in a bloody campsite, thank you very much. Both countries have failed to deliver on their promises, motorways have not been built, and many places are totally off the European transport map. Lvov, lovely city, but how the hell you gonna get there other than by special chartered flight?.
Utter complete joke, but as someone else said, UEFA don't care, so long as the money rolls in, often to places it shouldn't, I suspect. Same as FIFA, same as the IOC.
I do recall a mobs smashing up several towns last time there was a tournament here and any German cars in Trafalgar Square getting the treatment, so maybe the high-handed view of foreigners is a bit over the top.
It wasn't long ago that our most beloved footballing icons were displaying an openly racist attitude. Things moved on here, and that's great, but the absolute horror and disgust at countries that are further back on the advancement scale is rather rich given the treatment dished out to players here less than 20 years ago when we had high educational standards and a high level of immigration.
We hold euro 96 the following year without problems...
You'll not get to see that at the Euros because those fans will simply not be there. I'm astounded (well I'm not really) that UEFA did not comment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/danwalker/2012/05/avram_grants_story_is_an.html
And can someone explain what a large minority is. Opposite to the small majority I suppose?
Many Ukrainains fought on the side of the Nazis - they hated Stalin for the purges and the the famine that his collectivisation policies in the 1930s caused. Look up the "HiWis or Hilfswilliger (Willing helpers) and after WWII one of the most shameless things we did was send back to the USSR many Cossacks who had either fought for the Nazis or who expressed no desire to go home. I doubt many of them lived more than a few days once they returned.