Germany only cleared the reparation debt from WWI in 2010.
It was partly France's excessive demands at The Treaty of Versaille to put them back to the position they were in 1870, which caused the rise of the National Socialists in Germany.
Germany only cleared the reparation debt from WWI in 2010.
It was partly France's excessive demands at The Treaty of Versaille to put them back to the position they were in 1870, which caused the rise of the National Socialists in Germany.
I think most of us know this. What it doesn't excuse is a fascist political movement, elected to power which resulted in the Germans starting an expansionist war in Eastern Europe, triggering further war in Northern Europe, Western Europe, and Southern Europe, the ethnic cleansing and murder of millions of people on an industrial scale plus some of the most ghastly brutality the world has ever seen.
Whilst we all know ifthe USA hadnt entered the war the World would be a very very differant place. Without the actual land mass of England there would have been no way to liberate Europe. That seems to be forgotten. How can it be right that NO French Presidnet visited the war British war graves untill this year ? i dont expect the French to say thanks every day but FFS wheres the respect to our dead ? Go to Ostterbek in Holland or the Menin Gate and the respect shown by the locals is humbling. Band of Brothers was very disapointing re nothing was said about the Brit Airbourne. 10,000 didnt come back after Arnham. The Rhine crossing -- Pegus Bridge--- the name the Red Devils given to the Paras by the Germans etc etc etc Its a worry that Discovery Channel IS HISTORY watch Dog Fights----Tank Battles----etc etc we were there at all. The Falklands----Iran Embassy----- Iraq----Kuwait-------Afghanistan. No Brit films or TV dramas unless of course its a slight or a slag off.
What most Brits fail to understand about American history is just how many Germans settled there and how strong their influence was. The decision to adopt English as the main language was a hard-fought and very closely contested won by a very narrow majority over German. If you add the Italian influence in terms of pro-Germany then you can appreciate how delicate and difficult a decision it was to get consensus to enter into the war on the side of the Allies.
Imagine what would have happened had America had a President Lindenburg.
That is a facinating point to ponder.
Philip Roth's fine alternative history novel "The Plot against America" does exactly that.
This completly destroys Germanys excuse for the nazis and the second world war. It was regarded as accepted logic that the massive debt imposed on Germany in 1918 led to the rise of the Nazis. Yet the British bankrupted themselves in WW2 and the massive British war debt was still being paid off by the generations born thirty years after the war and Britian never once turned to extreme politics.
There were other factors at work - we had a history and an understanding of democracy and the rule of law and after WWII we had a Labour government that was the most radical in our history. We got the NHS, education reforms nad many industries were nationalised and then later on Marshall Aid finance paid a few bills.
Germany in the 1920s had no history of a meaningful democracy, Hitler and others believed in the "Bismarck Myth" that Germany needed a strong man of destiny to lead the nation and the weaknesses of the Weimar Republic meant that Hindenburg and whoever was Chancellor could resort to Article 48 of the constitution which allowed them to govern by decree. The reparations imposed at Versailles were ruinous and the results entirely predictable - both Lloyg George and Keynes were against imposing them but were outvoted by the other partners and domestically in Britain the call was for Germany to pay and through the nose for apparently starting the war. That gave too much grist to the likes of Hitler who could and did blame everyone from the Jews to the Bolsheviks and the SDP who had to clear up the mess that the Kaiser left and negotiate a peace treaty and fashion a government and an economy out of thin air.
Just a couple of comments. Britain and Russia would not have overcome Germany without American intervention. The French are loath to admit that for many Frenchmen, the Vichy regime was more acceptable than the muddled and confused regimes that preceded it. And for a French president, De Gaulle especially, to even suggest that Britain aided France in any way, well he would rather swallow razorblades. Stalin was happy with the Ribbentrop/Molotov pact which divided Poland between the two disgusting idealogical regimes of Naziism and 'Communism'. If Hitler the madman had not attacked the Soviet Union, the odds are that Germany would have been 'victorious' by the end of 1942. Ironically, Germany now rules over the larger part of Europe, with the French clutching to German frockcoat tails. The heritage of Napoleon and Bismark comes to fruition with Merkel more Charlemagne (or Charlottemagne) than Joan of Arc.
Just a couple of comments. Britain and Russia would not have overcome Germany without American intervention
The US didn't do that much on the Eastern Front - the stuff they supplied to the Soviet Union was a drop in the ocean, what they did though was help indirectly. D-Day diverted German resources away from Russia and forced Hitler to fight on two fronts, but had D-Day not happened then the Soviet Union would have destroyed Germany, maybe not until 1946 or 47, but it would have happened.
Just a couple of comments. Britain and Russia would not have overcome Germany without American intervention
The US didn't do that much on the Eastern Front - the stuff they supplied to the Soviet Union was a drop in the ocean, what they did though was help indirectly. D-Day diverted German resources away from Russia and forced Hitler to fight on two fronts, but had D-Day not happened then the Soviet Union would have destroyed Germany, maybe not until 1946 or 47, but it would have happened.
Agree, the biggest factor that helped 'us' win the war was Hitler attacking Russia in 1942, as soon as Hitler picked a fight with the Russians, Germany's war was lost, we could have won the war without the USA, we needed the Eastern front to be opened by Stalin.
Just a couple of comments. Britain and Russia would not have overcome Germany without American intervention
The US didn't do that much on the Eastern Front - the stuff they supplied to the Soviet Union was a drop in the ocean, what they did though was help indirectly. D-Day diverted German resources away from Russia and forced Hitler to fight on two fronts, but had D-Day not happened then the Soviet Union would have destroyed Germany, maybe not until 1946 or 47, but it would have happened.
This is entirely untrue.American supplies to the USSR were huge and massively important. E.g - over 14,000 planes, almost all of their lorries and rail locomotives and cars, 130,000+ machine guns, millions of tons of food, petro, millions of pairs of boots.
Who knows whether it was crucial or not but it was very, very important.
What happened happened. Germany was defeated unconditionally. The Soviet Union lost 25 millon people. 6 million of Europe's Jews were murdered along with Gypsies and many other groups. Britain held out against Germany and struck out against them where possible for a number of years and that enabled a platform from which the Western Front could be opened and the USA add their considerable might to help defeat Germany in the west. All of the Western Allies had large numbers of casualties and spent vast amounts of resources in so doing.
Many, many factors resulted in the causes, outcome and the aftermath of the second world war. It is possible to argue that the damage/destruction the Western Allies caused to Germany's heavy water plants and the smashing of the V weapon sites did much to stop the Germans from waging a ballistic war which could have included Nuclear weapons.
Nothing can change history. The various balances of strength, weakness of each of those groups involved can be argued over but each of those involved in defeating Germany played a major part. Who really knows which part was the most decisive and which was the straw the broke the camels back.
Comments
It was partly France's excessive demands at The Treaty of Versaille to put them back to the position they were in 1870, which caused the rise of the National Socialists in Germany.
Forgive the German people - yes. Forget - never.
Without the actual land mass of England there would have been no way to liberate Europe. That seems to be forgotten.
How can it be right that NO French Presidnet visited the war British war graves untill this year ? i dont expect the French to say thanks every day but FFS wheres the respect to our dead ? Go to Ostterbek in Holland or the Menin Gate and the respect shown by the locals is humbling.
Band of Brothers was very disapointing re nothing was said about the Brit Airbourne. 10,000 didnt come back after Arnham. The Rhine crossing -- Pegus Bridge--- the name the Red Devils given to the Paras by the Germans etc etc etc
Its a worry that Discovery Channel IS HISTORY watch Dog Fights----Tank Battles----etc etc we were there at all.
The Falklands----Iran Embassy----- Iraq----Kuwait-------Afghanistan. No Brit films or TV dramas unless of course its a slight or a slag off.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4970720.stm#
This completly destroys Germanys excuse for the nazis and the second world war.
It was regarded as accepted logic that the massive debt imposed on Germany in 1918 led to the rise of the Nazis. Yet the British bankrupted themselves in WW2 and the massive British war debt was still being paid off by the generations born thirty years after the war and Britian never once turned to extreme politics.
There were other factors at work - we had a history and an understanding of democracy and the rule of law and after WWII we had a Labour government that was the most radical in our history. We got the NHS, education reforms nad many industries were nationalised and then later on Marshall Aid finance paid a few bills.
Germany in the 1920s had no history of a meaningful democracy, Hitler and others believed in the "Bismarck Myth" that Germany needed a strong man of destiny to lead the nation and the weaknesses of the Weimar Republic meant that Hindenburg and whoever was Chancellor could resort to Article 48 of the constitution which allowed them to govern by decree. The reparations imposed at Versailles were ruinous and the results entirely predictable - both Lloyg George and Keynes were against imposing them but were outvoted by the other partners and domestically in Britain the call was for Germany to pay and through the nose for apparently starting the war. That gave too much grist to the likes of Hitler who could and did blame everyone from the Jews to the Bolsheviks and the SDP who had to clear up the mess that the Kaiser left and negotiate a peace treaty and fashion a government and an economy out of thin air.
Stalin was happy with the Ribbentrop/Molotov pact which divided Poland between the two disgusting idealogical regimes of Naziism and 'Communism'. If Hitler the madman had not attacked the Soviet Union, the odds are that Germany would have been 'victorious' by the end of 1942. Ironically, Germany now rules over the larger part of Europe, with the French clutching to German frockcoat tails. The heritage of Napoleon and Bismark comes to fruition with Merkel more Charlemagne (or Charlottemagne) than Joan of Arc.
The US didn't do that much on the Eastern Front - the stuff they supplied to the Soviet Union was a drop in the ocean, what they did though was help indirectly. D-Day diverted German resources away from Russia and forced Hitler to fight on two fronts, but had D-Day not happened then the Soviet Union would have destroyed Germany, maybe not until 1946 or 47, but it would have happened.
Very interesting looking at today and the future as well as the past.
Worth a listen
Who knows whether it was crucial or not but it was very, very important.
What happened happened. Germany was defeated unconditionally. The Soviet Union lost 25 millon people. 6 million of Europe's Jews were murdered along with Gypsies and many other groups. Britain held out against Germany and struck out against them where possible for a number of years and that enabled a platform from which the Western Front could be opened and the USA add their considerable might to help defeat Germany in the west. All of the Western Allies had large numbers of casualties and spent vast amounts of resources in so doing.
Many, many factors resulted in the causes, outcome and the aftermath of the second world war. It is possible to argue that the damage/destruction the Western Allies caused to Germany's heavy water plants and the smashing of the V weapon sites did much to stop the Germans from waging a ballistic war which could have included Nuclear weapons.
Nothing can change history. The various balances of strength, weakness of each of those groups involved can be argued over but each of those involved in defeating Germany played a major part. Who really knows which part was the most decisive and which was the straw the broke the camels back.