Before the election Mr Cameron stated that the NHS was safe in his hands.
Labour's election manifesto promises 'personal, accountable and tailored' NHS 12 April, 2010 Labour’s manifesto for the general election will today propose a major shake-up of public services that could see underperforming hospitals taken over by management teams from more successful organisations.
Because of the financial crisis, the manifesto will include no big new spending commitments, but will instead feature a set of new rights and entitlements for patients, parents and citizens designed to drive up standards in the public sector.
Unfortunately that's the way it reads to me - it looks like superficial scaremongering.
I live in the local area and have used the services for many years. Based on my own first-hand experience (as opposed to being part of a different part of the NHS) and that of my family, friends and neighbours I can't fault the service and I personally know people who have been seriously sick and cured there.
As a point of reference, I worked briefly in the NHS and I know that different trusts and bodies compete for resources. This often leads to a fragmented and destructive anti-corporate mindset. Rather than seeing the bigger picture, the different bodies often engage in power struggles for domination which are not driven by the needs of local communities.
Unfortunately that's the way it reads to me - it looks like superficial scaremongering.
I live in the local area and have used the services for many years. Based on my own first-hand experience (as opposed to being part of a different part of the NHS) and that of my family, friends and neighbours I can't fault the service and I personally know people who have been seriously sick and cured there.
As a point of reference, I worked briefly in the NHS and I know that different trusts and bodies compete for resources. This often leads to a fragmented and destructive anti-corporate mindset. Rather than seeing the bigger picture, the different bodies often engage in power struggles for domination which are not driven by the needs of local communities.
Jorge
Read my post. I live within ten minutes of QE2 and I too have had experience of the place and it hasn't been good to the point of shocking. I base my opinion on that personal experience and not as a member of staff of another NHS Trust. I'm really glad you have been well served by the local hospital. My family have not. I know members of staff still working there who think the place is horrendous.
Unfortunately that's the way it reads to me - it looks like superficial scaremongering.
I live in the local area and have used the services for many years. Based on my own first-hand experience (as opposed to being part of a different part of the NHS) and that of my family, friends and neighbours I can't fault the service and I personally know people who have been seriously sick and cured there.
As a point of reference, I worked briefly in the NHS and I know that different trusts and bodies compete for resources. This often leads to a fragmented and destructive anti-corporate mindset. Rather than seeing the bigger picture, the different bodies often engage in power struggles for domination which are not driven by the needs of local communities.
Jorge
Read my post. I live within ten minutes of QE2 and I too have had experience of the place and it hasn't been good to the point of shocking. I base my opinion on that personal experience and not as a member of staff of another NHS Trust. I'm really glad you have been well served by the local hospital. My family have not. I know members of staff still working there who think the place is horrendous.
Apologies our posts crossed.
You referred to the trust earlier rather than specifically QE and most, but not all of my experience is with Queen Mary's (which I first used in 1972 and can't fault). I have had first hand experience of QE (both as the military and civilian hospital) and it was fine. I am sorry if your family's experience has been poor but mine and my family and friends' has been okay.
Without being sanctimonious or trite, why do the staff that you know at QE accept the situation if it's so horrendous? What can be done to improve things?
My Dad went into the QE 3 years ago, with a collapsed lung & emphysema. He stopped eating, contracted C Diff & didn't come out. The consultants & staff continually gave conflicting advice. I won't say more, but was not impressed. Please God I don't end up there.
I know existing staff and a couple who have left within the last year or so. Low morale and lack of leadership. Lurching from crisis to crisis. Staff shortages and a general lack of professional pride which has been ground out the staff. If you want to see how not to run an A & E dept get yourself down to the QE.
My opinion for what it's worth is that the place needs taking over by one of the teaching hospital trusts where the focus is very much on excellence and staff seem to have a stake in being part of that. Kings would be my choice but failing that Lewisham. Root and branch changes are needed both in management and clinical focus.
South London Healthcare Trust should be split up - report
The department only opened six months ago A London hospital trust which ran up debts of £150m should be divided up, a report will say next week.
Spiralling debts led to South London Healthcare Trust becoming the first NHS trust to be put into administration.
A government-appointed administrator will say on Monday its three hospitals should be hived off to nearby trusts and a Lewisham A&E unit should close.
BBC London's Karl Mercer said the plans could lead to "a radical shake-up" of care across the whole of south London.
Lewisham Hospital's A&E unit has been earmarked for closure in the report, six months after it reopened as part of a £12m refit.
The trust, unions and local MPs are not commenting on the report until it is officially announced on Monday.
South London Healthcare NHS Trust, which serves one million people in Bexley, Bromley and Greenwich, was put into administration in July.
The then Health Secretary Andrew Lansley appointed special administrator Matthew Kershaw after the trust ran up debts of £65m a year, which is about £1.3m a week.
Three hospitals make up the trust; Queen Elizabeth in Woolwich, The Princess Royal in Orpington and Queen Mary's in Sidcup.
Mr Kershaw will recommend that the A&E unit at Lewisham Hospital closes and patients be moved to Queen Elizabeth's to save money.
The BBC correspondent said: "The trust has struggled to pay the bills for its new buildings which were built under the Private Finance Initiative (PFI). That's a kind of mortgage which has to be paid back over 30 years.
"Efforts to tackle the problems have so far failed which is why the administrator was brought in.
"His draft report out on Monday will lead to a radical shake-up of care across the whole of south London."
The Princess Royal is likely to be taken over by King's Health Partners in south London, Queen Mary's would be taken over by a mix of Dartford and Gravesham and Oxleas NHS trusts and the Queen Elizabeth is expected to join up with Lewisham Hospital.
The BBC correspondent said Mr Kershaw believes savings of up to £100m will have to be made in the next five years, with "huge" implications for jobs.
"He'll also say that the government should pay up to £20m a year to cover the PFI bill currently being paid by South London Healthcare Trust for its hospital buildings," he said.
Mr Kershaw's draft report announcement will be followed by a month-long consultation with staff, patients and the public.
A final report will be submitted to Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt in January 2013 for a final decision in February.
Up until 18 months ago, Lewisham A&E was the department of choice for most Ambulance crews when it came to trauma in SE London, and now the whole place is going!
As we all know, QE can't cope. It's simple, the waiting times for patients will increase in the department. The waiting time for Ambulances will increase due to extended running times and delays at QE while waiting to off load patients in the busy/full department.
It will only get worse. It the space of three years, we will have gone from 4 A&E departments that could just about cope too 2 that will NEVER be able to cope.
It's nothing to do with developing patient care, but everything to do with saving the £££s!
The merging of the two trusts is very positive news but the recommendation that Lewisham A & E is to close is nothing short of a scandal. Read my post further up this page. Back in June I thought that the QE should merge with either Kings or Lewisham but I never envisaged the emergency service moving to Woolwich. It can't cope with its own workload and will need to be trebled in size to cope in the future. Bet it's not. This decision to merge the A & E s needs to be fought tooth and nail.
Its PFI coming home --------------some of these "contracts" must have been drawn up by con men. Even get out clauses will cost the tax payers millions and millions. It was Wonga,Com for public capital projects.
Its PFI coming home --------------some of these "contracts" must have been drawn up by con men. Even get out clauses will cost the tax payers millions and millions. It was Wonga,Com for public capital projects.
Spot on Goonerhater. I work for Maidstone & Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust and they too are being crippled by PFI payments and are desperate for any way of making a few pounds. Whoever thought PFI was a good idea for the taxpayer was either an idiot or a crook.
This is a disaster for people who may have to rely on these services to save their lives. I'm still trying to get my head around Queen Mary's A&E closing, to lose another one is very worrying.
Hang on, let me get this straight. The Trust that controls the Queen Elizabeth, Princess Royal and Queen Mary's goes into administration, and as a consequence _Lewisham_ loses it's A&E department? That's absolutely nuts.
Hang on, let me get this straight. The Trust that controls the Queen Elizabeth, Princess Royal and Queen Mary's goes into administration, and as a consequence _Lewisham_ loses it's A&E department? That's absolutely nuts.
Absolute madness. Close lewisham a/e and you create a huge void sitting in between QEH, PRU and Kings that will massively increase the workload on those three hospitals and increase the time people in that void wait for responses to 999 calls and the time it will take those responses to get patients to hospital. Essentially exactly what has happened to those that live in the area previously served by queen mary's in sidcup.
Earlier this week I received a message stating that every single a/e department in south east london was under extreme pressure (essentially full up) and to avoid using them if possible. You take 25% of that capacity away and that message will become one that is received most days I suspect.
Has anyone used the A&E at Queen Elizabeth ? I have for myself and loved ones and quite frankly it's damn scary. No fault of staff but its stretched to breaking point and you will wait at least four hours to see a doctor unless its life threatening. In 2012 that's a disgrace. Take Lewisham out of the equation and even with a doubling of spending on QE accident and emergency and you are looking at health care on Eastern European standards. The people that govern us are uncaring morons.
South East London is a mystery and a void to the decision makers we get overlooked often, and throughout recent history. I mean the lack of the tube kept us a bit isolated (a good thing in many ways), taxi drivers even now hesitate before going saaf ov ver rivver, there are certainly no Boris Bikes that I've seen around, and now the NHS debacle. They always spin things and say it is an improvement, but it is manisfestly so that losing Lewisham Hospital A&E is going to make things much worse, and people are going to suffer. I am less passionately political than I used to be in my youth, but this kind of cut is so hard core, and so brutal at the heart of the SE London community (after all Lewisham is the capital city of SE London like it or not) that it is enough to re radicalise old gits like me. Maybe there are some on here who would say 'if you don't like it go private', but seriously, in the case of Lewisham A&E can even the most right wing person justify closing it? If there really is a justifiable case I'd like to hear it. It is brutal slash and burn at it's worst, and it won't affect the toffs because they don't live here amongst us plebs.
Has anyone used the A&E at Queen Elizabeth ? I have for myself and loved ones and quite frankly it's damn scary. No fault of staff but its stretched to breaking point and you will wait at least four hours to see a doctor unless its life threatening. In 2012 that's a disgrace. Take Lewisham out of the equation and even with a doubling of spending on QE accident and emergency and you are looking at health care on Eastern European standards. The people that govern us are uncaring morons.
No fault of the staff!.? Wanna bet? I have taken a patient into that place at 4am and been told that because they have been busy all night and that now the place is empty, they will have to wait for the day staff to start before they are seen! Even though they only had a small wound to the head after a fall which would only need a drop of glue!
Has anyone used the A&E at Queen Elizabeth ? I have for myself and loved ones and quite frankly it's damn scary. No fault of staff but its stretched to breaking point and you will wait at least four hours to see a doctor unless its life threatening. In 2012 that's a disgrace. Take Lewisham out of the equation and even with a doubling of spending on QE accident and emergency and you are looking at health care on Eastern European standards. The people that govern us are uncaring morons.
No fault of the staff!.? Wanna bet? I have taken a patient into that place at 4am and been told that because they have been busy all night and that now the place is empty, they will have to wait for the day staff to start before they are seen! Even though they only had a small wound to the head after a fall which would only need a drop of glue!
I am astonished by that. Was it nursing staff or admin at the desk. Regardless that situation is not acceptable. I assume you asked to speak to someone or at least wrote the the Chief Executive or the consultant in charge of A & E ? What did they have to say ?
My mum got taken into Lewisham a&e a couple of weeks ago with a life-threatening gallbladder/pancreas problem. The medical care she received in a&e was second to none. Shame the same can't be said for the nursing and the medical aftercare - I was on the verge of thumping a couple of them on more than one occasion. She was spoken to and treated like a piece of dogshit. Seems to me that they could tear the rest of the poxy place down instead of the a&e and do South East London a favour.
same with my late Mum Leroy when she was in ICU 3 times before she died she was looked after--the recovery killed her slowly over 3 months including releasing her when she couldnt stand on her own, feed herself or (acording to the amblanace staff)never have been released, They coulddnt help us we had to call 999 again for her to be readmitted.
They put her in a geriatric ward where she didnt get any help at all. she got thrush in the mouth , bladder infections and in sure she died of neglect -----we had her GP on the case but they stick like shit to the blanket.
I saw the old lady in the bed opposite die in the same manner almost to the identical sequence of events. I had to help that ladies daughter pull the screen round her and get the nurse-------she died about 5 mins later. So i knew what was happening with mum but you couldnt get anyone to take ant f++king notice/ Almost like they were saying"well she has a good inings".
They said she has ephasemier (sic) then when i told one of the top DRs she said "well she hasnt now" so my old mum is theonly person who has recovered from that illness in the World !
Leroy and GH. I am so very sorry to read your shocking comments. I really do hope that your experiences and observations were reported to the relevant CE's and nursing matrons because that is the only way that any change can take place. What's happening to the Health Service is very very worrying and I am not trying to make any political point.
SHG my father was in and out of QM and QE for 13 years. I saw both of those hospitals go through both Labour and Tory years---no staff----loads and loads of staff, but English being the third language and wards being refurbed and new kit--------the NHS lurched from one directional f++k up to another. That direction is sometimes political and sometimes driven by new fads in "clinical thinking"(oxymoron).
The night i found mt Father naked in bed in a mixed ward during visiting hours is up there with the worst EVER. I got the screens round him and had to go for a walk-----truely truely would have kicked off if i hadnt. I demanded to see a ward sister etc---she said sorry and run off to deal with it etc. By the time i got to my Mothers hse they had phoned her to tell her he was having a heart attack so they had to lower his temp down !! FFS lieing bastards. I contacted his GP ----there was no heart attack he had a bladder infection and his temp was high----thats it. No explanation as to being nude in a mixed ward etc.
NHS is still a great thing but dignity isnt on their menue EVER
As for making complaints (please like they give a shit)i have 20 storys similar to the above and must have paid for at least one ward in SE LOndon hospitals with theparking fees over 13 years.
SHG my father was in and out of QM and QE for 13 years. I saw both of those hospitals go through both Labour and Tory years---no staff----loads and loads of staff, but English being the third language and wards being refurbed and new kit--------the NHS lurched from one directional f++k up to another. That direction is sometimes political and sometimes driven by new fads in "clinical thinking"(oxymoron).
The night i found mt Father naked in bed in a mixed ward during visiting hours is up there with the worst EVER. I got the screens round him and had to go for a walk-----truely truely would have kicked off if i hadnt. I demanded to see a ward sister etc---she said sorry and run off to deal with it etc. By the time i got to my Mothers hse they had phoned her to tell her he was having a heart attack so they had to lower his temp down !! FFS lieing bastards. I contacted his GP ----there was no heart attack he had a bladder infection and his temp was high----thats it. No explanation as to being nude in a mixed ward etc.
NHS is still a great thing but dignity isnt on their menue EVER
As for making complaints (please like they give a shit)i have 20 storys similar to the above and must have paid for at least one ward in SE LOndon hospitals with theparking fees over 13 years.
The head of nursing would I am certain be horrified at that level of care. If you and others like you felt that care was not provided by the nursing staff then I really wish you had gone the extra mile to make damn certain that your complaint was heard. I am not a nurse but work as a radiographer and I would be ashamed if I were to have any similar accusations levelled at where I work. Patient care and dignity is of paramount importance and I am really disgusted by what you have written. Please believe that not all health care workers are as appalling as those you encountered. I appologise on their behalf.
NHS hospitals are slowly but surely becoming State deathcamps for the elderly.
Before the usual suspects shriek Daily Mail hysteria and all the other bollocks at me I've seen it with my own relatives so make no apology whatsoever for what I've said.
Falling out of bed and being left on the floor for an indeterminate amount of time with a fractured hip is just one example of the default level of care I've seen with my relatives.
Inevitably these old people die of neglect with little or no dignity which seems to be the NHS desired outcome in these utilitarian, costcutting times as it happens so often. Hence in my opinion all the propaganda in the media about introducing euthanasia or assisted suicide but that's another topic.
Why didn't I complain? Firstly I wasn't the official next of kin, secondly it wouldn't have brought the person back and thirdly the whole complaining experience would be too distressing for those in a position to complain.
In my opinion NHS Hospitals know that their complaints policies are Kafkaesque and so they carry on cynically safe in the knowledge that 99.99% of relatives will not complain for some of the reasons I've mentioned.
Comments
12 April, 2010
Labour’s manifesto for the general election will today propose a major shake-up of public services that could see underperforming hospitals taken over by management teams from more successful organisations.
Because of the financial crisis, the manifesto will include no big new spending commitments, but will instead feature a set of new rights and entitlements for patients, parents and citizens designed to drive up standards in the public sector.
I live in the local area and have used the services for many years. Based on my own first-hand experience (as opposed to being part of a different part of the NHS) and that of my family, friends and neighbours I can't fault the service and I personally know people who have been seriously sick and cured there.
As a point of reference, I worked briefly in the NHS and I know that different trusts and bodies compete for resources. This often leads to a fragmented and destructive anti-corporate mindset. Rather than seeing the bigger picture, the different bodies often engage in power struggles for domination which are not driven by the needs of local communities.
Read my post. I live within ten minutes of QE2 and I too have had experience of the place and it hasn't been good to the point of shocking. I base my opinion on that personal experience and not as a member of staff of another NHS Trust. I'm really glad you have been well served by the local hospital. My family have not. I know members of staff still working there who think the place is horrendous.
You referred to the trust earlier rather than specifically QE and most, but not all of my experience is with Queen Mary's (which I first used in 1972 and can't fault). I have had first hand experience of QE (both as the military and civilian hospital) and it was fine. I am sorry if your family's experience has been poor but mine and my family and friends' has been okay.
Without being sanctimonious or trite, why do the staff that you know at QE accept the situation if it's so horrendous? What can be done to improve things?
He stopped eating, contracted C Diff & didn't come out. The consultants & staff continually gave conflicting advice.
I won't say more, but was not impressed.
Please God I don't end up there.
I know existing staff and a couple who have left within the last year or so. Low morale and lack of leadership. Lurching from crisis to crisis. Staff shortages and a general lack of professional pride which has been ground out the staff. If you want to see how not to run an A & E dept get yourself down to the QE.
My opinion for what it's worth is that the place needs taking over by one of the teaching hospital trusts where the focus is very much on excellence and staff seem to have a stake in being part of that. Kings would be my choice but failing that Lewisham. Root and branch changes are needed both in management and clinical focus.
The department only opened six months ago
A London hospital trust which ran up debts of £150m should be divided up, a report will say next week.
Spiralling debts led to South London Healthcare Trust becoming the first NHS trust to be put into administration.
A government-appointed administrator will say on Monday its three hospitals should be hived off to nearby trusts and a Lewisham A&E unit should close.
BBC London's Karl Mercer said the plans could lead to "a radical shake-up" of care across the whole of south London.
Lewisham Hospital's A&E unit has been earmarked for closure in the report, six months after it reopened as part of a £12m refit.
The trust, unions and local MPs are not commenting on the report until it is officially announced on Monday.
South London Healthcare NHS Trust, which serves one million people in Bexley, Bromley and Greenwich, was put into administration in July.
The then Health Secretary Andrew Lansley appointed special administrator Matthew Kershaw after the trust ran up debts of £65m a year, which is about £1.3m a week.
Three hospitals make up the trust; Queen Elizabeth in Woolwich, The Princess Royal in Orpington and Queen Mary's in Sidcup.
Mr Kershaw will recommend that the A&E unit at Lewisham Hospital closes and patients be moved to Queen Elizabeth's to save money.
The BBC correspondent said: "The trust has struggled to pay the bills for its new buildings which were built under the Private Finance Initiative (PFI). That's a kind of mortgage which has to be paid back over 30 years.
"Efforts to tackle the problems have so far failed which is why the administrator was brought in.
"His draft report out on Monday will lead to a radical shake-up of care across the whole of south London."
The Princess Royal is likely to be taken over by King's Health Partners in south London, Queen Mary's would be taken over by a mix of Dartford and Gravesham and Oxleas NHS trusts and the Queen Elizabeth is expected to join up with Lewisham Hospital.
The BBC correspondent said Mr Kershaw believes savings of up to £100m will have to be made in the next five years, with "huge" implications for jobs.
"He'll also say that the government should pay up to £20m a year to cover the PFI bill currently being paid by South London Healthcare Trust for its hospital buildings," he said.
Mr Kershaw's draft report announcement will be followed by a month-long consultation with staff, patients and the public.
A final report will be submitted to Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt in January 2013 for a final decision in February.
As we all know, QE can't cope. It's simple, the waiting times for patients will increase in the department. The waiting time for Ambulances will increase due to extended running times and delays at QE while waiting to off load patients in the busy/full department.
It will only get worse. It the space of three years, we will have gone from 4 A&E departments that could just about cope too 2 that will NEVER be able to cope.
It's nothing to do with developing patient care, but everything to do with saving the £££s!
It was Wonga,Com for public capital projects.
Earlier this week I received a message stating that every single a/e department in south east london was under extreme pressure (essentially full up) and to avoid using them if possible. You take 25% of that capacity away and that message will become one that is received most days I suspect.
They always spin things and say it is an improvement, but it is manisfestly so that losing Lewisham Hospital A&E is going to make things much worse, and people are going to suffer.
I am less passionately political than I used to be in my youth, but this kind of cut is so hard core, and so brutal at the heart of the SE London community (after all Lewisham is the capital city of SE London like it or not) that it is enough to re radicalise old gits like me.
Maybe there are some on here who would say 'if you don't like it go private', but seriously, in the case of Lewisham A&E can even the most right wing person justify closing it? If there really is a justifiable case I'd like to hear it.
It is brutal slash and burn at it's worst, and it won't affect the toffs because they don't live here amongst us plebs.
They put her in a geriatric ward where she didnt get any help at all. she got thrush in the mouth , bladder infections and in sure she died of neglect -----we had her GP on the case but they stick like shit to the blanket.
I saw the old lady in the bed opposite die in the same manner almost to the identical sequence of events. I had to help that ladies daughter pull the screen round her and get the nurse-------she died about 5 mins later. So i knew what was happening with mum but you couldnt get anyone to take ant f++king notice/ Almost like they were saying"well she has a good inings".
They said she has ephasemier (sic) then when i told one of the top DRs she said "well she hasnt now" so my old mum is theonly person who has recovered from that illness in the World !
That direction is sometimes political and sometimes driven by new fads in "clinical thinking"(oxymoron).
The night i found mt Father naked in bed in a mixed ward during visiting hours is up there with the worst EVER. I got the screens round him and had to go for a walk-----truely truely would have kicked off if i hadnt. I demanded to see a ward sister etc---she said sorry and run off to deal with it etc. By the time i got to my Mothers hse they had phoned her to tell her he was having a heart attack so they had to lower his temp down !! FFS lieing bastards.
I contacted his GP ----there was no heart attack he had a bladder infection and his temp was high----thats it. No explanation as to being nude in a mixed ward etc.
NHS is still a great thing but dignity isnt on their menue EVER
As for making complaints (please like they give a shit)i have 20 storys similar to the above and must have paid for at least one ward in SE LOndon hospitals with theparking fees over 13 years.
NHS hospitals are slowly but surely becoming State deathcamps for the elderly.
Before the usual suspects shriek Daily Mail hysteria and all the other bollocks at me I've seen it with my own relatives so make no apology whatsoever for what I've said.
Falling out of bed and being left on the floor for an indeterminate amount of time with a fractured hip is just one example of the default level of care I've seen with my relatives.
Inevitably these old people die of neglect with little or no dignity which seems to be the NHS desired outcome in these utilitarian, costcutting times as it happens so often. Hence in my opinion all the propaganda in the media about introducing euthanasia or assisted suicide but that's another topic.
Why didn't I complain? Firstly I wasn't the official next of kin, secondly it wouldn't have brought the person back and thirdly the whole complaining experience would be too distressing for those in a position to complain.
In my opinion NHS Hospitals know that their complaints policies are Kafkaesque and so they carry on cynically safe in the knowledge that 99.99% of relatives will not complain for some of the reasons I've mentioned.