If Diamond was an honourable man he would resign, but he wouldn't be doing the job he does if he was honourable would he? We need an alternative to these self serving greedy leeches.
There is an alternative - use a self styled ethical bank such as Co-op or dont use a bank at all.
Good point, but we are so lethargic. If there was a groundswell of movement to ethical banks it would probably have more of a positive impact than any political intervention could.
A little bit rich (no pun intended) though Floyd, when Cameron & Osborne were amongst those in the Conservative Party who, whilst in opposition wanted less regulation for their friends in the City.
Oh yes, I agree, but the fact is it was the Labour party who actually got us into this mess, and its the same individuals in opposition who have the staggering hypocrisy to criticise the methods of getting us out of it. It reflects badly on both main parties, but Oggy's question was 'what will Cameron and Osbourne say', and I was suggesting their possible obvious answer.
If Diamond was an honourable man he would resign, but he wouldn't be doing the job he does if he was honourable would he? We need an alternative to these self serving greedy leeches.
There is an alternative - use a self styled ethical bank such as Co-op or dont use a bank at all.
Unfortunately our political masters have removed our right to be paid for our labours in cash.
We therefore have little or no alternative but to have a bank account.
What gets me is when the interest rate is 1/2% mortgages are still about 5% so what will the crooked bastards do when the rate increases to say 1% ? Keep the margins they have been used to? Legalised loan sharks is all they are.
Banks ripping us off. NHS collapse EU labour freedom of movement. I bailed to OZ in 1983 and have lots to thank Thatcher for. Having said that, we do have a micro of this in OZ, tyanks to the Libs.
Heard yesterday that the Local Govt Pension Fund is looking at a potential civil claim against Barclays over their fiddling of the Libor.
Diamond is toast, even if it's not proven they lied to the Libor board when they started querying what was going on. Be nice to get some of the £70m he's had in bonuses back but can't see it...
From the toxic loans to the latest scandal - How many of these greedy immoral crooks have been banged up? I think we all know the answer to that - words from Politicians mean nothing without actions.
Looks unlikely that the issues in regard to the Libor rate scandal, seem to NOT to be covered by the SFA as Lord Turner has stated on the BBC this morning. Of course it was all terrible, and this relates up to 2008, all changed now etc, a terrible thing to find out. Known since 2009........ Investigations take a long time etc. FSA powers relate to a qualifying set of powers, which apparently this does not cover. Should the baks be divided as in the Vickers report, yes, but that alone will not stop all of this. The result: we need to change the law......... if you fail as a director of a bank, you will not be allowed back in the 'club' of banking i.e. as a director. If a few people are used as 'scapegoates' in a fraud trial we shall see. Plenty of hand ringing and protests, but no actual collars being felt....... I would bet.
Looks unlikely that the issues in regard to the Libor rate scandal, seem to NOT to be covered by the SFA as Lord Turner has stated on the BBC this morning. Of course it was all terrible, and this relates up to 2008, all changed now etc, a terrible thing to find out. Known since 2009........ Investigations take a long time etc. FSA powers relate to a qualifying set of powers, which apparently this does not cover. Should the baks be divided as in the Vickers report, yes, but that alone will not stop all of this. The result: we need to change the law......... if you fail as a director of a bank, you will not be allowed back in the 'club' of banking i.e. as a director. If a few people are used as 'scapegoates' in a fraud trial we shall see. Other banks being investigated, you wonder why if this is the outcome........ Plenty of hand ringing and protests, but no actual collars being felt....... I would bet.
Here's three things I don't understand about Barclays and the LIBOR manipulation: First, why haven't the FSA pass their case files to the City Of London Police (or the Serious Fraud Office) to investigate offences under the Fraud Act 2006 (or obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception under the Theft Act if the matter pre-dated the change in legislation)? If they have done so why not say so? Second, why haven't the FSA found Diamond and whoever actually did the deed "not fit and proper" and had them removed from office? Third, yesterday Peston on the BBC said that he had been told that the Barclays chairman was resigning. Now that information is market sensitive and should in the first instance have been issued via a regulatory news service announcement. How come the Beeb got it first and will any action be taken against Barclays for breaching legislation by leaking the information before their RNS went out at 7am this morning?
According to Turner cafcfan the FSA have been investigating this matter for some time. Why did it take 6 years. The FSA claim that LIBOR does not come within its 'qualifying set of powers' and therefore it cannot pass this on the to SFO, who had it's budget cut by 50 percent recently. The Chairman of Barclays is also the chairman of the organisation that regulates the LIBOR I think it is the Association of British Bankers, so his position is to say the least was 'fragile'. I assume that people (select commitee) that Diamond appears before on Wednesday are waiting for his explanation. If knacker from the yard were to go around and 'nick him' on whatever charge such as you suggest, he would simply refuse to appear and say the matter is sub judice, as he would I possibly incriminate himself. Quite agree with you about Peston , but most news stories are leaked in this manner, anyway Peston thinks Diamond will front it out. The goverment meanwhile seems to think this is all up to the shareholders. As a spokesperson stated yesterday, Diamond is responsible to the company/shareholders. I agree with all your points, but we are talking banks here .........
Here's three things I don't understand about Barclays and the LIBOR manipulation: First, why haven't the FSA pass their case files to the City Of London Police (or the Serious Fraud Office) to investigate offences under the Fraud Act 2006 (or obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception under the Theft Act if the matter pre-dated the change in legislation)? If they have done so why not say so?
I posted this last week shortly after the news broke. So I'll say it again:
Here's three things I don't understand about Barclays and the LIBOR manipulation: First, why haven't the FSA pass their case files to the City Of London Police (or the Serious Fraud Office) to investigate offences under the Fraud Act 2006 (or obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception under the Theft Act if the matter pre-dated the change in legislation)? If they have done so why not say so?
I posted this last week shortly after the news broke. So I'll say it again:
It is fraud, plain and simple.
They used deception to accumulate massive profit.
If you or I did it, we'd go to jail.
Absolutely. In fact, a lot of what the City gets up to looks like fraud to us "muppets". It's a wonder to me that an angry mob hasn't sacked Canary Wharf and lynched a few of them pour encourager les autres.
Here's three things I don't understand about Barclays and the LIBOR manipulation: First, why haven't the FSA pass their case files to the City Of London Police (or the Serious Fraud Office) to investigate offences under the Fraud Act 2006 (or obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception under the Theft Act if the matter pre-dated the change in legislation)? If they have done so why not say so?
I posted this last week shortly after the news broke. So I'll say it again:
It is fraud, plain and simple.
They used deception to accumulate massive profit.
If you or I did it, we'd go to jail.
Indeed you did Oggy, and we await the heavy footprints from Nacker of the yard to visit Barclay's towers, and drag Messrs Diamond and co off to the local nick to help them with his enquiries. Of course it will all be agreed my arrangement that he will slip into a nice pre-arranged westend station, with his legal team and be bailed that very day. The court case probably costing £10 million or so will end in a farce, over some legal wheeze, and by that time we will have moved on to the next banking outrage.
then there are the staff on the front line like my Sis. as a bank manager for that heap of Scottish shit (till it went wrong then they were British) RBS. Her desk is right in the middle of the branch floor. she had to go in the weekend and open at 8am re their latest f++k up. One punter (he isnt a man) came in and threatened her for 30 mins she could not get behind the glass screens as its not where RBS want the people in the front line--no panic alarms and the staff couldnt see what was going on. If i could find him he would be dead. When he turned his back she went behind the counter. He said he would be back----------------------------------RBS when contacted said are you opening at 8AM tomorrow?
Exactly, @Goonerhater. Entirely blameless, and not even well-paid, people in the branches, doing a socially indispensable job, get abused for the crimes of the spivs who gamble with other people's money.
Spiv "banking" (where it's allowed to take place at all) should be kept entirely separate from normal utility banking.
According to Turner cafcfan the FSA have been investigating this matter for some time. Why did it take 6 years. The FSA claim that LIBOR does not come within its 'qualifying set of powers' and therefore it cannot pass this on the to SFO, who had it's budget cut by 50 percent recently. The Chairman of Barclays is also the chairman of the organisation that regulates the LIBOR I think it is the Association of British Bankers, so his position is to say the least was 'fragile'. I assume that people (select commitee) that Diamond appears before on Wednesday are waiting for his explanation. If knacker from the yard were to go around and 'nick him' on whatever charge such as you suggest, he would simply refuse to appear and say the matter is sub judice, as he would I possibly incriminate himself. Quite agree with you about Peston , but most news stories are leaked in this manner, anyway Peston thinks Diamond will front it out. The goverment meanwhile seems to think this is all up to the shareholders. As a spokesperson stated yesterday, Diamond is responsible to the company/shareholders. I agree with all your points, but we are talking banks here .........
Ken, Adair Turner is a lightweight - always was, always will be. He was a big fan of the UK joining the Euro, for example!!
One of the FSA's primary roles is the reduction in financial crime. Here's an extract from the FSA's regulatory objectives as set out in the legislation: “Financial crime” includes any offence involving— (a)fraud or dishonesty; (b)misconduct in, or misuse of information relating to, a financial market; or (c)handling the proceeds of crime.
So, naturally, there are "gateways", as they are called, in the confidentiality provisions which provide the FSA with the opportunity (should they so wish) to pass information to the appropriate authorities.
So, you decide, is Turner lying or does he just not know this? (I suspect the latter) Either way, he should leave office too.
Sadly, if we haven't had anyone nicked for the wholsesale fraud that got us all into this huge mess in the first place (playing pass the parcel with known toxic debt packages) I doubt we'll see anything of this nature for the latest example of banking malpractice.
I expect I may be among the minority on here but I have actually had some experience of enforcing of the Fraud Act 2006 I can see no reason why charges cannot be laid under that. What we do not need is another enquiry, internal review, code of practices or any new legislation. Cameron and Clegg need to grow a set betwen them and provide the regulators with the support to use the tools already in place.
What we need is a few coppers turning up at Barclays and anyone else that was doing the same and to see (and I mean see) some of these so-called rogue staff taken out of the building in handcuffs closely followed by their possessions in an evidence bag. Maybe then we might have the change of culture that is so clearly needed in the British banking system?
According to Turner cafcfan the FSA have been investigating this matter for some time. Why did it take 6 years. The FSA claim that LIBOR does not come within its 'qualifying set of powers' and therefore it cannot pass this on the to SFO, who had it's budget cut by 50 percent recently. The Chairman of Barclays is also the chairman of the organisation that regulates the LIBOR I think it is the Association of British Bankers, so his position is to say the least was 'fragile'. I assume that people (select commitee) that Diamond appears before on Wednesday are waiting for his explanation. If knacker from the yard were to go around and 'nick him' on whatever charge such as you suggest, he would simply refuse to appear and say the matter is sub judice, as he would I possibly incriminate himself. Quite agree with you about Peston , but most news stories are leaked in this manner, anyway Peston thinks Diamond will front it out. The goverment meanwhile seems to think this is all up to the shareholders. As a spokesperson stated yesterday, Diamond is responsible to the company/shareholders. I agree with all your points, but we are talking banks here .........
Ken, Adair Turner is a lightweight - always was, always will be. He was a big fan of the UK joining the Euro, for example!!
One of the FSA's primary roles is the reduction in financial crime. Here's an extract from the FSA's regulatory objectives as set out in the legislation: “Financial crime” includes any offence involving— (a)fraud or dishonesty; (b)misconduct in, or misuse of information relating to, a financial market; or (c)handling the proceeds of crime.
So, naturally, there are "gateways", as they are called, in the confidentiality provisions which provide the FSA with the opportunity (should they so wish) to pass information to the appropriate authorities.
So, you decide, is Turner lying or does he just not know this? (I suspect the latter) Either way, he should leave office too.
Sadly, if we haven't had anyone nicked for the wholsesale fraud that got us all into this huge mess in the first place (playing pass the parcel with known toxic debt packages) I doubt we'll see anything of this nature for the latest example of banking malpractice.
I expect I may be among the minority on here but I have actually had some experience of enforcing of the Fraud Act 2006 I can see no reason why charges cannot be laid under that. What we do not need is another enquiry, internal review, code of practices or any new legislation. Cameron and Clegg need to grow a set betwen them and provide the regulators with the support to use the tools already in place.
What we need is a few coppers turning up at Barclays and anyone else that was doing the same and to see (and I mean see) some of these so-called rogue staff taken out of the building in handcuffs closely followed by their possessions in an evidence bag. Maybe then we might have the change of culture that is so clearly needed in the British banking system?
I reckon a few S.2 or S.4 charges against the staff concerned would be a good start...
I am no fan of Turner, just pointing out what the guy was stating on the Marr programme. I must admit that I tend to agree with Bournemouth, there has to be a conviction by both the regulatory bodies and the goverment to come down hard on these people. The Vickers report needs to be implemented as soon as possible to 'firewall' the everyday high street banking from the speculative futures/high risk/investment market. Until a time when people feel that there money is secure/savings/pensions etc this will do untold harm to an important section of the UK economy, and the investment /jobs that this country so badly needs. I am not asking for a couple of scapegoats, to be sacrificied. Diamond should step down until his name is cleared if he is not guilty of running a corrupt system. As I posted several days ago, it seems to be centered around Diamond but he is just one of what i suspect are quite a few people at the top of the banking world. Until there is proper control of the system , with severe punishment for those that fix/speculate/ruin people's business's and lives the banking system will be regarded as a shambles. Of course there has to be a properly organised and managed financial body to police this, with the power to impose sanctions.
The only thing needed is a change of culture to adopt moral and ethical standards. That comes from changes at the top. I've worked in enough organisations to know that culture is set directly from the top, no arguments. Protecting top management is what the game is all about once the wink has been nodded. Health and safety only became an industry once officials faced the prospect of corporate manslaughter charges. We need a similar protection in financial services where wilful fraud or negligence lands you in jail, not a slap from the FSA.
If Diamond was an honourable man he would resign, but he wouldn't be doing the job he does if he was honourable would he? We need an alternative to these self serving greedy leeches.
There is an alternative - use a self styled ethical bank such as Co-op or dont use a bank at all.
Unfortunately our political masters have removed our right to be paid for our labours in cash.
We therefore have little or no alternative but to have a bank account.
Comments
We therefore have little or no alternative but to have a bank account.
NHS collapse
EU labour freedom of movement.
I bailed to OZ in 1983 and have lots to thank Thatcher for.
Having said that, we do have a micro of this in OZ, tyanks to the Libs.
Diamond is toast, even if it's not proven they lied to the Libor board when they started querying what was going on. Be nice to get some of the £70m he's had in bonuses back but can't see it...
Should the baks be divided as in the Vickers report, yes, but that alone will not stop all of this.
The result: we need to change the law......... if you fail as a director of a bank, you will not be allowed back in the 'club' of banking i.e. as a director. If a few people are used as 'scapegoates' in a fraud trial we shall see.
Plenty of hand ringing and protests, but no actual collars being felt....... I would bet.
First, why haven't the FSA pass their case files to the City Of London Police (or the Serious Fraud Office) to investigate offences under the Fraud Act 2006 (or obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception under the Theft Act if the matter pre-dated the change in legislation)? If they have done so why not say so?
Second, why haven't the FSA found Diamond and whoever actually did the deed "not fit and proper" and had them removed from office?
Third, yesterday Peston on the BBC said that he had been told that the Barclays chairman was resigning. Now that information is market sensitive and should in the first instance have been issued via a regulatory news service announcement. How come the Beeb got it first and will any action be taken against Barclays for breaching legislation by leaking the information before their RNS went out at 7am this morning?
The FSA claim that LIBOR does not come within its 'qualifying set of powers' and therefore it cannot pass this on the to SFO, who had it's budget cut by 50 percent recently. The Chairman of Barclays is also the chairman of the organisation that regulates the LIBOR I think it is the Association of British Bankers, so his position is to say the least was 'fragile'.
I assume that people (select commitee) that Diamond appears before on Wednesday are waiting for his explanation. If knacker from the yard were to go around and 'nick him' on whatever charge such as you suggest, he would simply refuse to appear and say the matter is sub judice, as he would I possibly incriminate himself.
Quite agree with you about Peston , but most news stories are leaked in this manner, anyway Peston thinks Diamond will front it out.
The goverment meanwhile seems to think this is all up to the shareholders. As a spokesperson stated yesterday, Diamond is responsible to the company/shareholders.
I agree with all your points, but we are talking banks here .........
So I'll say it again:
It is fraud, plain and simple.
They used deception to accumulate massive profit.
If you or I did it, we'd go to jail.
Spiv "banking" (where it's allowed to take place at all) should be kept entirely separate from normal utility banking.
One of the FSA's primary roles is the reduction in financial crime.
Here's an extract from the FSA's regulatory objectives as set out in the legislation:
“Financial crime” includes any offence involving—
(a)fraud or dishonesty;
(b)misconduct in, or misuse of information relating to, a financial market; or
(c)handling the proceeds of crime.
So, naturally, there are "gateways", as they are called, in the confidentiality provisions which provide the FSA with the opportunity (should they so wish) to pass information to the appropriate authorities.
So, you decide, is Turner lying or does he just not know this? (I suspect the latter) Either way, he should leave office too.
I expect I may be among the minority on here but I have actually had some experience of enforcing of the Fraud Act 2006 I can see no reason why charges cannot be laid under that. What we do not need is another enquiry, internal review, code of practices or any new legislation. Cameron and Clegg need to grow a set betwen them and provide the regulators with the support to use the tools already in place.
What we need is a few coppers turning up at Barclays and anyone else that was doing the same and to see (and I mean see) some of these so-called rogue staff taken out of the building in handcuffs closely followed by their possessions in an evidence bag. Maybe then we might have the change of culture that is so clearly needed in the British banking system?
If you're interested the CPS guidance on FA'06 charges is at cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/fraud_act/#a10
I reckon a few S.2 or S.4 charges against the staff concerned would be a good start...
I must admit that I tend to agree with Bournemouth, there has to be a conviction by both the regulatory bodies and the goverment to come down hard on these people. The Vickers report needs to be implemented as soon as possible to 'firewall' the everyday high street banking from the speculative futures/high risk/investment market. Until a time when people feel that there money is secure/savings/pensions etc this will do untold harm to an important section of the UK economy, and the investment /jobs that this country so badly needs.
I am not asking for a couple of scapegoats, to be sacrificied. Diamond should step down until his name is cleared if he is not guilty of running a corrupt system. As I posted several days ago, it seems to be centered around Diamond but he is just one of what i suspect are quite a few people at the top of the banking world. Until there is proper control of the system , with severe punishment for those that fix/speculate/ruin people's business's and lives the banking system will be regarded as a shambles. Of course there has to be a properly organised and managed financial body to police this, with the power to impose sanctions.
I've worked in enough organisations to know that culture is set directly from the top, no arguments. Protecting top management is what the game is all about once the wink has been nodded.
Health and safety only became an industry once officials faced the prospect of corporate manslaughter charges.
We need a similar protection in financial services where wilful fraud or negligence lands you in jail, not a slap from the FSA.