I can't get player where I am, but I've just read more of the above and see that it's black people in management.
Clubs will employ who they consider to be the best candidate for the post, the colour of their skin makes no difference!
Just a quick question, name a decent black candidate for the Forrest job, who you'd be happy to see in the seat, if you were a Forrest supporter?
Isn't that the question that's being asked though, why aren't there more candidates ?
Is it because black players feel they can't become coaches/managers for some reason or do they just not fancy it ?
Does the figure of 25% of players in England being black mean black English players or just black player, from any part of the world ? If the latter then I think it's a little misleading as both black and white players from overseas will tend to return after they've finished playing here, hence why they don't go on to manage.
There is however a proportional gap between the number of black English players and managers. Perhaps this is because of perceived racism and if managers like Chris Powell can prove that the issue isn't there by being successfull then it might encourage change and a generation down the line it's no longer a talking point and is just the norm.
In my view there is an evolutionary aspect to this.
In 1972 Bradford City had Cec Podd and West Ham had Clyde Best and Ade Coker. That was about it for black players in the entire football league (*awaits cleverdick quote of one or more I've missed*). Forty years on things are very different.
Now bear in mind that teams have just one manager but eleven plus players it is inevitably going to take longer for the number of black managers to increase simply because of the limited number of opportunities rather than racism.
In forty years time I'm pretty sure the number of black managers will have evolved to more proportionate levels.
Coaching Courses are available to everyone, whether you are black/white/male/female. If you have the desire and concentration to want to coach at the top level, you do your badges.
Perhaps the programme should have released figures as to how many qualified black managers applied and how many got the job?
Give it a year and some ridiculous scheme will be in place like this one re london cab drivers.
In my view there is an evolutionary aspect to this.
In 1972 Bradford City had Cec Podd and West Ham had Clyde Best and Ade Coker. That was about it for black players in the entire football league (*awaits cleverdick quote of one or more I've missed*). Forty years on things are very different.
Now bear in mind that teams have just one manager but eleven plus players it is inevitably going to take longer for the number of black managers to increase simply because of the limited number of opportunities rather than racism.
In forty years time I'm pretty sure the number of black managers will have evolved to more proportionate levels.
Indeed. Things take time. Likewise with getting women into positions of authority, black people a fair chance and working class people the same opportunities as the middle classes...it doesn't happen in 5 years, or 10 years, it'll happen gradually over 50+ years.
Coaching Courses are available to everyone, whether you are black/white/male/female. If you have the desire and concentration to want to coach at the top level, you do your badges.
Perhaps the programme should have released figures as to how many qualified black managers applied and how many got the job?
Give it a year and some ridiculous scheme will be in place like this one re london cab drivers.
Its schemes like that that make my blood boil, why the f++k should tax payers money fund a scheme, which includes "language and numeracy skills, and childcare provision"
A black cabby has to deal with the public and be able to count and handle money, if you cannot speak English and cannot count it clearly is not the job for you.
I don’t think the purpose of the programme was about statistical analysis of the issue at all – it wasn’t about how many black managers there are per se, it was about the experiences of several current and ex-players to demonstrate whether or not the progress made over the last couple of decades was continuing in the modern game and in particular if the recent high profile cases were indicative of an underlying problem that hasn’t been addressed.
Carlisle himself stated at the beginning that he had had not experienced it personally in the game, which frankly I was (pleasantly) surprised about, but over the course of the programme it became clear that to suggest we’ve ‘cracked it’ in the UK is far too complacent an attitude.
How else do you explain the sort of filth that was posted in the aftermath of the Suárez or the fact that the two young asian lads (one of whom was his county captain FFS) do not appear to have had the same opportunities in the game as their counterparts?
It is a valid point that black players may percieve there is no point doing their badges but surely that is going to improve. Quite a few clubs have appointed black managers so surely they must appreciate that if it is somethiong they wan't to do and are good at, that they may get a chance
If Chris Powell continues to succeed I think it will open doors for other black managers. And he will come to the attention of other clubs (if he hasn't already).
Look at many African football nations. Their selecters I would imagine have black skin. A lot of African countries have historically had white European managers.
Surely this points to the fact that those calling the shots look at depth of experience at a high level and therefore that is why they offer the jobs to those who they see will perform the best based on their CV.
Whilst it is a catch 22 of well how do black managers gain the experience if they dont get the opportunity the same could be said of young inexperienced managers of any colour.
We took a chance on CP as it was possibly a great bit of PR by the board in a time of uncertainty. The gamble has paid off and it turns out he has been thus far up to the challenge.
But Chris put the donkey work in his roles at the PFA, coaching at Leicester and generally developing a reputation as one of the most liked and well respected men in the game. His skin colour for 99% of people, aside from the BBC and other media who constantly dwell on it (in what I believe is a patronising way), is as irrelevant as the colour of David Moyes copper barnet.
Hopefully young black players will draw inspiration from CP and perhaps think well if he's done it then maybe i can do it too and look into getting coaching qualifications and experience and pull down the barriers that (perhaps) only exist in their subconcious.
Football is about money and success nowdays. Most boards really wouldnt care what colour their manager was as long as he brought them success and riches and Id say most fans wouldnt give a hoot either as long as their manager brought them success on the pitch.
Id argue that even the most ardent racist backward bigot Charlton supporter would rather have CP at the helm now than a number of his immediate predecessors for example.
Not seen the programme but will watch it tonight but personally i dont think football as an institution is racist....just that some people in football will be the same as every single aspect of society and the wider world.
Carlisle himself stated at the beginning that he had had not experienced it personally in the game, which frankly I was (pleasantly) surprised about, but over the course of the programme it became clear that to suggest we’ve ‘cracked it’ in the UK is far too complacent an attitude.
How else do you explain the sort of filth that was posted in the aftermath of the Suárez or the fact that the two young asian lads (one of whom was his county captain FFS) do not appear to have had the same opportunities in the game as their counterparts?
Don't think anyone has said it's cracked.
All is anyone has managed to do is push racism under the surface. It's a crime to say/do racist things, but you can't stop people thinking it and all we've done is make plenty of people 'secret racists', who will make racist jibes in their homes or in comfortable company.
I think huge progress has been made it actually reducing racial discrimination, but racial abuse/jibes have just been swept to behind a computer or something.
Watched it, thought Clarke Carlisle came across pretty dim to be honest, didn't have much of a grasp on things, which he normally does.
John Barnes can do one, useless manager, that's why he didn't get a chance.
The programme was far too 'fluffy' and didn't drive into any detail.
Carlisle kept saying, "It's 2012, 25% of players are black, why aren't managers?"
He needs to track back over the past 10-20 years and look at all the black players who retired and what they now do. Did they look to go into coaching, if not, why not? If they are coaches, why aren't they managers yet? Have they applied? Etc etc etc.
This was all very very high level and he took what certain people said as gospel. Walked away from 2 asian lads believeing every single word they said. 84 goals in a season? Cannot believe a club, any professional or semi-pro club wouldn't have had a look - if they didn't, then go & ask some local clubs, Luton, Staines etc why didn't look or if they did why didn't they give them a chance.
All a lot of very broadbrush stuff, disappointing when the topic is so important.
(& that stuff written by mainly LFC fans towards Evra...there are an awful lot of keyboard warriors on twitter, but still, that is hugely embarrassing knowing people type such ignorant crap.)
Agree with everthing said here. What utter nonsence that two Asian players couldn't get a look in because of their race! I agree, if one was scoring 86 goals in a season I bet Alex Ferguson would have personally driven to the guy's house, given his parents £100k each and driven the guy to a top hotel in Manchester and signed him to the youth product. Very weak, unbalanced and bias programme.
In my view there is an evolutionary aspect to this.
In 1972 Bradford City had Cec Podd and West Ham had Clyde Best and Ade Coker. That was about it for black players in the entire football league (*awaits cleverdick quote of one or more I've missed*). Forty years on things are very different.
Now bear in mind that teams have just one manager but eleven plus players it is inevitably going to take longer for the number of black managers to increase simply because of the limited number of opportunities rather than racism.
In forty years time I'm pretty sure the number of black managers will have evolved to more proportionate levels.
Agree Len. It is the same as with big companies. My uncle is black and he got told at a FTSE one hundred co in the 80s that he wouldnt get the VP gig he applied for as he was black.
Fast forward to today and most huge corporate companies make huge efforts to prevent racial or gender discrimination (often in an OTT way some would argue with quotas and diversity targets which can actually be patronising and cause divisiveness and resentment whilst being patronising and to those who are intended to benefit from it).
Whilst there will always be racists of every colour in all walks of life the insitutionalised racism of the past is surely been eroded in this country and will continue to be so and will be reflected in time when black people who work hard and have the talent to get in high positions of whatever organisation on merit do so by applying themselves.
It is true that African countries mostly have European or South American managers but that is more a result of the lack of resources in their game. In this country black players have the same access to courses and White players. Having said that, our top clubs rarely go to British managers (black or white) when there is a foreign option.
Who cares? The whole 'lets stop racisim in football' is getting boring, it will never stop so just get on with it.
Slavery will never stop, so lets just get on with it. Children will always be sent up chimneys instead of going to school, so lets just get on with it. Women will never have the vote, so lets just get on with it. Hitler will do what he wants, so lets just get on with it. People from Broadstairs will always be seen as inbred, webbed-feet idiots who don't know their arses from their elbows, so lets just get on with it.
Why was he praising a team that is 100% for Asians and openly excludes blacks and whites ?
Not sure if I started a white only team excluding blacks and Asians it would last long.
Exactly what i though, if we wanted to get into a 100% asian team they would say no, and nothing would happen, if we had 100% white english, im sure their would be trouble and we would get done.
Who cares? The whole 'lets stop racisim in football' is getting boring, it will never stop so just get on with it.
Slavery will never stop, so lets just get on with it. Children will always be sent up chimneys instead of going to school, so lets just get on with it. Women will never have the vote, so lets just get on with it. Hitler will do what he wants, so lets just get on with it. People from Broadstairs will always be seen as inbred, webbed-feet idiots who don't know their arses from their elbows, so lets just get on with it.
Im talking more racisim in football, it wont stop,ever. i dont agree with rasisim my self and am well against it, but their is just some stuff which you cant stop.
I think that if you take our club as an example, we have moved in leaps and strides from when I first started supporting them. In the 70's and 80's it was a common occurance to hear racist comments from the crowd. I nearly packed in going it got so bad - now if you look at the club we have a black manager- black coach and a good number of black players. You don't hear any racist comments. This has been achieved partly by a changing society but also the efforts of the club and its fans and I doubt we would have got there if we shrugged our shoulders and said it wasn't possible. The next challenge for the club, I think is to get more black supporters in the ground. Would be interesting to hear Airman's views on that challenge. Surely we are in the best position we have ever been to attract interest from all communities.
Comments
Is it because black players feel they can't become coaches/managers for some reason or do they just not fancy it ?
Does the figure of 25% of players in England being black mean black English players or just black player, from any part of the world ? If the latter then I think it's a little misleading as both black and white players from overseas will tend to return after they've finished playing here, hence why they don't go on to manage.
There is however a proportional gap between the number of black English players and managers. Perhaps this is because of perceived racism and if managers like Chris Powell can prove that the issue isn't there by being successfull then it might encourage change and a generation down the line it's no longer a talking point and is just the norm.
In 1972 Bradford City had Cec Podd and West Ham had Clyde Best and Ade Coker. That was about it for black players in the entire football league (*awaits cleverdick quote of one or more I've missed*). Forty years on things are very different.
Now bear in mind that teams have just one manager but eleven plus players it is inevitably going to take longer for the number of black managers to increase simply because of the limited number of opportunities rather than racism.
In forty years time I'm pretty sure the number of black managers will have evolved to more proportionate levels.
Perhaps the programme should have released figures as to how many qualified black managers applied and how many got the job?
Give it a year and some ridiculous scheme will be in place like this one re london cab drivers.
http://www.london.gov.uk/media/press_releases_mayoral/new-scheme-tackles-barriers-taxi-knowledge
A black cabby has to deal with the public and be able to count and handle money, if you cannot speak English and cannot count it clearly is not the job for you.
Carlisle himself stated at the beginning that he had had not experienced it personally in the game, which frankly I was (pleasantly) surprised about, but over the course of the programme it became clear that to suggest we’ve ‘cracked it’ in the UK is far too complacent an attitude.
How else do you explain the sort of filth that was posted in the aftermath of the Suárez or the fact that the two young asian lads (one of whom was his county captain FFS) do not appear to have had the same opportunities in the game as their counterparts?
Look at many African football nations. Their selecters I would imagine have black skin. A lot of African countries have historically had white European managers.
Surely this points to the fact that those calling the shots look at depth of experience at a high level and therefore that is why they offer the jobs to those who they see will perform the best based on their CV.
Whilst it is a catch 22 of well how do black managers gain the experience if they dont get the opportunity the same could be said of young inexperienced managers of any colour.
We took a chance on CP as it was possibly a great bit of PR by the board in a time of uncertainty. The gamble has paid off and it turns out he has been thus far up to the challenge.
But Chris put the donkey work in his roles at the PFA, coaching at Leicester and generally developing a reputation as one of the most liked and well respected men in the game. His skin colour for 99% of people, aside from the BBC and other media who constantly dwell on it (in what I believe is a patronising way), is as irrelevant as the colour of David Moyes copper barnet.
Hopefully young black players will draw inspiration from CP and perhaps think well if he's done it then maybe i can do it too and look into getting coaching qualifications and experience and pull down the barriers that (perhaps) only exist in their subconcious.
Football is about money and success nowdays. Most boards really wouldnt care what colour their manager was as long as he brought them success and riches and Id say most fans wouldnt give a hoot either as long as their manager brought them success on the pitch.
Id argue that even the most ardent racist backward bigot Charlton supporter would rather have CP at the helm now than a number of his immediate predecessors for example.
Not seen the programme but will watch it tonight but personally i dont think football as an institution is racist....just that some people in football will be the same as every single aspect of society and the wider world.
"Ugly fat Palace munter", yes, but not that.
All is anyone has managed to do is push racism under the surface. It's a crime to say/do racist things, but you can't stop people thinking it and all we've done is make plenty of people 'secret racists', who will make racist jibes in their homes or in comfortable company.
I think huge progress has been made it actually reducing racial discrimination, but racial abuse/jibes have just been swept to behind a computer or something.
Fast forward to today and most huge corporate companies make huge efforts to prevent racial or gender discrimination (often in an OTT way some would argue with quotas and diversity targets which can actually be patronising and cause divisiveness and resentment whilst being patronising and to those who are intended to benefit from it).
Whilst there will always be racists of every colour in all walks of life the insitutionalised racism of the past is surely been eroded in this country and will continue to be so and will be reflected in time when black people who work hard and have the talent to get in high positions of whatever organisation on merit do so by applying themselves.
Children will always be sent up chimneys instead of going to school, so lets just get on with it.
Women will never have the vote, so lets just get on with it.
Hitler will do what he wants, so lets just get on with it.
People from Broadstairs will always be seen as inbred, webbed-feet idiots who don't know their arses from their elbows, so lets just get on with it.
Not sure if I started a white only team excluding blacks and Asians it would last long.
But then we get on to why there are Black Unions, black history month etc, we're either equal (or try as best we can to behave that way) or we ain't.
Phil Walker & Trevor Lee were white players dubbed up to be black just to trick people, clearly they didn't trick you.
Think Millwall had black players before Charlton did, but there was a long period when you didn't any at all.