Lennie's first full year in charge - 1985/6 assembled a squad of relatively unknown players and got us promoted. the late 80's was one of the best times I had supporting CAFC - battling against the odds in the top division, playing at Sellout park infront of crowds of less than 10k
Like the 4 yorkshireman sketch - "tough, I tell you about tough". Curbs had it easy.
Hard choice, as the club by the time Curbs left was a very different place to the one he inherited from Lennie, which was struggling to stay alive out of the top flight.
Curbs for me too. My first instinct was to say you couldn't compare them as they managed in different era's. However, although both had limited budgets, Curbs had to content with so many clubs with mega-bucks, he gets my vote.
I have spelt comparative correctly this time but otherwise stick by what I said then:
The 3 best managers are Seed, Lawrence and Curbishley.
The achievements of all 3 were remarkable and a case can be made for any of them to be judged the greatest.
However for me Curbs shades it because of the more hostile transfer market and wage structure he was confronted with. South Stand operated when there was a maximum wage so, although I daresay there was a bit of "boot money" about, there was not the incentive to shift clubs to improve wages a la Parker. There was also no European football so the English first division was the pinnacle.
The same applied to Lennie, thanks to Heysel, which made it easier for him to keep his best players. It was also pre Bosman so a contract actually meant something back then.
The above comments are not intended to detract from the tremendous achievements of Jimmy Seed and Lennie Lawrence but are made for comparative purposes.
Curbs though had to manage a relatively poor club at the top level at a time of Sky inflated wages, Bosmans and the incentive of European football. Somehow he kept us around mid table or slightly better for 6 seasons under those conditions and that is why, by a fag paper, he is my number one.
I think a decent case could be made for either. Lennie had just about everything against him but against all odds did magnificently. Curbs took the club on and made us a respectable Premier League side that looked comfortable in those surroundings. I love them both dearly.
Curbishley the most successful, but St.Andrew's 1987 remains the most important result in our history. Long live Lennie, regardless if he ends up managing 'them'!
Curbs (just) for the reasons that Len gave but also because he gave us my favourite game the Wembley play off final. Posssibly the best day of my life.
Curbishley the most successful, but St.Andrew's 1987 remains the most important result in our history. Long live Lennie, regardless if he ends up managing 'them'!
Thankfully we'll never know now what would have happened had we lost that match. For me though, our most important match was the 1947 cup final. That gave us our only major silverware.
Curbs for me, keeping CAFC in the PL for seven seasons in an era when the richer clubs were immeasurably richer than we were was an awesome achievement.
Back in Lennie's day it was quite common for very small clubs (as we were back then) to survive - even thrive - in the old Division One, in our 1986-1990 years there you had the likes of Oxford United, Luton Town, Wimbledon, Crystal Palace, Millwall, Southampton, Leicester City, QPR and plenty of other smaller clubs.
Lennie for me Charlton horrible to watch under Curbs
Yeah, that 4-2 win at Highbury was a real chore, as was the the 4-2 Boxing Day mauling of Chelsea, the 3-3 draw with Man U, the 12 wins on the bounce in our championship winning season, the Play Off final, etc, etc.
This thread has alerted me to the fact that Lennie, Curbs, Dowie, Reed and Pardew all managed us in the top flight. Clearly Parkinson's didn't manage it but if Powell hangs around long enough we could well have a situation where six of our last seven managers managed Charlton in the top division.
Yeah I know but he was only temporary, and I can't quite bring myself to put him in a category that is lesser than those that managed in the top flight.
Comments
Like the 4 yorkshireman sketch - "tough, I tell you about tough". Curbs had it easy.
I have spelt comparative correctly this time but otherwise stick by what I said then:
The 3 best managers are Seed, Lawrence and Curbishley.
The achievements of all 3 were remarkable and a case can be made for any of them to be judged the greatest.
However for me Curbs shades it because of the more hostile transfer market and wage structure he was confronted with. South Stand operated when there was a maximum wage so, although I daresay there was a bit of "boot money" about, there was not the incentive to shift clubs to improve wages a la Parker. There was also no European football so the English first division was the pinnacle.
The same applied to Lennie, thanks to Heysel, which made it easier for him to keep his best players. It was also pre Bosman so a contract actually meant something back then.
The above comments are not intended to detract from the tremendous achievements of Jimmy Seed and Lennie Lawrence but are made for comparative purposes.
Curbs though had to manage a relatively poor club at the top level at a time of Sky inflated wages, Bosmans and the incentive of European football. Somehow he kept us around mid table or slightly better for 6 seasons under those conditions and that is why, by a fag paper, he is my number one.
Back in Lennie's day it was quite common for very small clubs (as we were back then) to survive - even thrive - in the old Division One, in our 1986-1990 years there you had the likes of Oxford United, Luton Town, Wimbledon, Crystal Palace, Millwall, Southampton, Leicester City, QPR and plenty of other smaller clubs.
Horrible, just horrible.
Just thought I'd point that out.
;o)