I am probably the odd bod on here. 41 years ago this month, my son died just before his 12th birthday. I'm sorry to add a bit of a downer to this thread, but many times since that day I have said ' well it isn't the worst thing that ever happened to me,' when things have gone wrong. I understand your passion for the Club, I've supported them for almost 60 years and my dad was affiliated to the Club in the 1930's as a referee. During a lifetime of frequent moves I have been a regular spectator watching the game at Arsenal, Watford, Southend, Wolves, and Brighton plus of course Charlton. My real love is for the game of Football, which is why I can sit and admire the play of Barnsleys little number 11, despite my sheer frustration at the way my own team is playing. Life has taught me that the only REALLY important things in my life are the loving relationships with which I am blessed, even if I have to go down to the local Rec to watch Charlton playing in pink hoops. Sorry if I have depressed or annoyed you, but as I finish this comment I find myself smiling at the wonderful memories that have flooded back into my mind. If I see criticism you can bet your life that I will be saying ' well it isn't the worst thing that ever happened to me.' Wake up and smell the roses everybody.
nice post Granpa.
I love Charlton and always will. Had some great days with family and friends watching the Addicks.
As ive got older though, ive realised that there are much much more important things in life.
I look at things like the castrust and think 'how have people got time to arrange and organise all that?'. BUT... i am massively grateful for the supporters that have held this club together and will continue to do so in the future.
I think a reasonable comparison in some ways with what perhaps is happening at the moment at our club is that of Mike Ashley and Newcastle - seemingly an outsider rowing his own boat. People were wary of his intentions but they seem to be okay with him now
Very true. Was anyone else involved with Newcastle then who isn't now : - )
I think that my feeling for the club comes from a very rich mixture - the history, the fights through financial adversity, the swell of pride from being one of the many fans who turned up to reclaim their valley from the weeds and dereliction, the commitment to community and charitable causes, the red shirts, the Valley itself, the balanced and overwhelmingly decent fan-base, the life-long memories of great matches down the years, the family history from being a 3 generation addick.....
I think it would take a massive change involving several of these components to make my love for Charlton fade. I would hate to move,but going to a new stadium within the local area would not make me give up my club. I love the red shirts, but changing to any other colour would not, on it's own, make me either. Changing the badge and the official nickname certainly wouldn't, as I think both are pretty naff. Changing the "feel" of the club from a decent, community based organisation to a hard nosed business that doesn't give a monkeys about anything else WOULD certainly start to erode my feelings, as would a significant change in the decent nature of the majority of my fellow fans. But it would take a combination of many of these factors into a "perfect storm" of change to push me over the edge - and I doubt (hopefully) that would ever occur.
So its all boiling down to a deep mistrust of TJ, the ex Chelsea doorman who has no money and is gradually removing any of the old guard who don't like what he is doing? Fair enough but i'm surprised more hasn't been said by PV and SK in the public domain if something really sinister is going on.
So its all boiling down to a deep mistrust of TJ, the ex Chelsea doorman who has no money and is gradually removing any of the old guard who don't like what he is doing? Fair enough but i'm surprised more hasn't been said by PV and SK in the public domain if something really sinister is going on.
I believe they are unable to at the present time for legal reasons
Was thinking about this, and if TJ was to propose we renamed ourselves Greenwich Meridian (to exploit Greenwich's international fame more) we'd all be horrified, but if this had happened in the 60s before (most of) us were born, we wouldn't think anything of the name change, and would happily support ' the Meridians'...
How about London Olympic? There was a Sydney team similarly named altho maybe because they were Greek. We don't know what the feelings of fans were necessarily years back, doesn't make it right either way.
So its all boiling down to a deep mistrust of TJ, the ex Chelsea doorman who has no money and is gradually removing any of the old guard who don't like what he is doing? Fair enough but i'm surprised more hasn't been said by PV and SK in the public domain if something really sinister is going on.
I believe they are unable to at the present time for legal reasons
That's what i assumed - but what would the consequences of ignoring the legal reasons be?
What a fantastic post I totally agree that in grand scheme of my life Charlton is a very small piece these days with me regularly deciding on match days to spend my time with my wife and kids than making the Saturday ritual the be all and end all of my weekend
However If it was decided we were to leave Charlton would be an even smaller priority on my list
Since I saw my 1st game at the Valley in 1961 I have lived in various parts of the world for quite long periods of time. Like my religion, like my family, CAFC has always been with me. Not a burning passion but a solid reminder of my home, my culture, my Englishness, my allegiance to the area where I was born and raised, my values, my sense of belonging. If CAFC is in the premier division or the third strata of the Kent league, it will always be my club until the day I die. No matter who's wearing the shirt, who's managing or who's doing well or mucking up the job in 'the boardroom', players, managers, owners come and go. It matters not to me if CAFC change to paisley shirts and play home games in Greenwich park, my club until I die
people do move and or travel a long way to get to home matches, how does that work, do they still have a special link to the geography/community?
Absolutely yes. I think it becomes even more important. If I were to come back to England and find Charlton playing at a different ground in different colours then that would be a reason not to come back again so soon. I'd rather fly over to see Charlton in League One at The Valley playing in red (as I did on several occasions) than to see Premier League Champions 'Greenwich Athletic' at the O2 playing in white.
Charlton is a point of reference to me in my own identity. Since I moved from England many things have changed and when I come back to visit I dislike all of these things. I want to come home and find things as they were (even the bad things!) because they are reassuring.
Cardiff City owner Vincent Tan open to name change
Cardiff City owner Vincent Tan has said that promotion to the Premier League could trigger further "rebranding" and did not rule out changing the club's name to Cardiff Dragons. The Malaysian billionaire has already insisted upon a colour change from blue to red, as well as a new club crest. "We will think about it when we know the final result of this season," he said about using Cardiff Dragons. "Then we will think what's the best way to brand it." Tan acknowledged the "rumours" that have recently emerged over the use of Cardiff Dragons but added: "We haven't discussed this. I've not really thought about this in detail. "But when we get there we'll make a decision. And when we make a decision we will convey it to everyone." Tan, who has an estimated wealth of $1.3bn, wants Cardiff to maximise all possible revenue and marketing opportunities in Asia. Who is Vincent Tan? Named on the Forbes billionaire list with an estimated worth of $1.3bn (£800m) He is chairman and chief executive of Berjaya Group and it is a portfolio which includes golfing, property, resorts and gambling Owns social networking site Friendster.com and has shares in Facebook Operates Malaysia's MiTV pay-TV service Bought Malaysia's McDonald's franchise in 1982 and in 1985 bought Sports Toto lottery agency After buying more than 35% of the club's shares for £6m in 2010, the 61-year-old Malaysian threatened to withdraw his support in June unless the club agreed to ditch its traditional blue home shirts in favour of red ones. The new colours were accepted, so too a new badge as a Welsh dragon replaced the bluebird, and further investment followed. In an interview with BBC Wales' Sport Wales programme, he justified the "controversial decision" of the club's colours, and stressed he is prepared to and intends to make more changes. "A few were upset but like in any business if we get 80% or 75% of the customers happy, with 20-25% not happy, that's fine," he said. "If they don't want to come to support our business, that's fine. We need the majority." He added: "I believe the change is for the better. And if you put in a lot of money, surely you have the right to make a call on some things you believe will make it better. "If you don't have a say, why the hell do you want to put in so much money?" After years of financial instability, Cardiff were on the brink of administration before Tan's takeover as part of a Malaysian consortium.
The club continues to struggle financially, recording losses of £13.6m in the year up to the end of May 2012, with an overall recorded debt of £83.1m. The accounts also show that the debt to Langston, the company represented by ex-City owner Sam Hammam, is put at £19.2m, with a one-off payment of £5m due if City reach the Premier League while the debt is outstanding. Tan said that resolving this debt is a priority for the club, and again called on Langston to renegotiate to a "fair level" and then convert the "unsecured" loan into equity. If that happens, Tan said he is willing to turn the £63m loan he has given to the club into equity. "Their loan is not secured," he said. "If anything happens to the club, Langston will get nothing. So I will convert [my loan] if we can resolve with Langston. "And if Sam Hammam loves Cardiff as he claims he does, he should come and sit down and then we'll find a solution." Having failed in the Championship play-offs three years in a row, Cardiff are in a stronger position than ever to reach the Premier League. They have an eight-point lead with 13 games remaining, but Tan said he would not walk away if promotion was not secured. "If the fans welcome me, I can stay for a long time," he said, promising a further £25m to manager Malky Mackay for new players should they go up. "But if I find they are not welcoming and rude, then maybe I will find a new buyer and go off. But if I were to sell, I'd make sure I would leave it in good hands." A section of Cardiff fans continue to oppose Tan's colour change. A protest was held at the end of the last home game to Brighton - which Tan attended - when free red scarves were handed out. Tan referred to the dissenting voices as "a bunch of mostly young kids" and argued a change was long overdue. "Have they achieved any success under this bluebirds brand?," he asked "So why do we hold onto something that hasn't achieved much success?"
Watch Sport Wales, BBC Two Wales, Thursday 28 February (19:00 GMT) for an exclusive, all-access look at Vincent Tan's business empire.
Dear oh dear. He thinks their lack of success is because of the "Bluebird brand". The sort of crass amateur comment that gives marketing a bad name. But when I look at the type of business he is in: "golfing, property, resorts and gambling", I'm not surprised. Due respect to anyone who makes big money in any legal business, but these are not the kinds of businesses where you learn about 'brands'. In fact his portfolio reminds me of another Championship club owner...
I am rather selfish and self centred. It's all about what I want and what matters to me. With this in mind I can completely understand the re-branding of the Cardiff Blues to the Cardiff Dragons. It is helpful for the markets in Asia, but also Red is the Welsh national colour and they do have a dragon on their national flag. I can see why the new owner would want to portray the club (in the event of promotion to the Premier League) as being representatives of both the Welsh people (somewhat upstaged by the success of Swansea) and the Chinese people.
However I fully understand why the Cardiff fans wouldn't like it, and I might feel the same if it were Charlton.
Where my selfishness is relevant is that I wouldn't have a problem trading many things about our 'culture and heritage' in exchange for a little more success on the field. Would I want to be the Charlton Dragons - not really. Would I be willing to accept that we were referred to that in China for an extended stay in the top flight? Yes I would! Would I be willing to trade the colour of our home shirt for success? No I wouldn't! Would I stop going if we changed our shirt a little and it was not all red? Probably not. Would I buy a replica shirt if we has a shirt that was not dominated by red? No I wouldn't! However the new owners would be clever enough, I'm sure, to make our away shirt red, which would, probably, be an acceptable purchase for me.
The Valley has been discussed elsewhere, and to death. I can see the, potential, benefits of moving but I like The Valley and as I get older the memories will become more important to me. When (assuming he goes first, of course) my Dad dies I think I will feel am even stronger emotional tie to the seats that we sit in now and might find leaving all those memories behind a little tough to accept.
Ultimately, however, the club is a business and an asset that someone can come along and buy and do what ever they choose with it. The Trust (like Portsmouth's) can look to get involved but with football clubs, these days, the sums of money are so large that a group of fans are going to struggle to finance what a rich owner could. I'm sure that if the Trust were willing to buy the club for the reported £35m that they want to sell it for, and guarantee the loans that the club has, and guarantee the running shortfall for a couple of seasons we would all like that but a rough calculation suggests that this option could require substantially more than £50m, and I doubt the trust has £50k let alone £50m. So we are going to have to accept that the owners will do things their way and we have to hope that their goals are aligned with ours.
Fascinating piece about non-Premiership football from the BBC??? (some mistake shurely)
Cardiff are selling their soul for the benefit of betting syndicates in Asia. Short term glory at the expense of tradition, identity, heritage and culture.
FA and Football League would ban it if they had any balls.
"If the fans welcome me, I can stay for a long time," he said, promising a further £25m to manager Malky Mackay for new players should they go up.
That's good of him, willing to spend £25m of the £70m TV money he gets on players!
I love the posturing though. If Haman waves the £19.2m and converts it into equity in a business that has an £83m debt and a rading loss of £13.6m then he will wipe of the £63m which will, no doubt increase his stake in the club that (I'll say it again) has an £83m loss and a trading loss of £13.6m.
If Haman converts his loan to equity he will never see any of it again and he will have, virtually, no control over the club. However if he waits for promotion to the Premier League he is guaranteed the £5m or presumably he'd take them to court before they receive the last instalment of their £70m TV money for the season.
There really are some sharp practices in the way football clubs are run aren't there?
Why do so many people expect investors to take a hit when they invest millions of pounds of their own money into the club?
I am rather selfish and self centred. It's all about what I want and what matters to me. With this in mind I can completely understand the re-branding of the Cardiff Blues to the Cardiff Dragons. It is helpful for the markets in Asia, but also Red is the Welsh national colour and they do have a dragon on their national flag. I can see why the new owner would want to portray the club (in the event of promotion to the Premier League) as being representatives of both the Welsh people (somewhat upstaged by the success of Swansea) and the Chinese people.
However I fully understand why the Cardiff fans wouldn't like it, and I might feel the same if it were Charlton.
Where my selfishness is relevant is that I wouldn't have a problem trading many things about our 'culture and heritage' in exchange for a little more success on the field. Would I want to be the Charlton Dragons - not really. Would I be willing to accept that we were referred to that in China for an extended stay in the top flight? Yes I would! Would I be willing to trade the colour of our home shirt for success? No I wouldn't! Would I stop going if we changed our shirt a little and it was not all red? Probably not. Would I buy a replica shirt if we has a shirt that was not dominated by red? No I wouldn't! However the new owners would be clever enough, I'm sure, to make our away shirt red, which would, probably, be an acceptable purchase for me.
The Valley has been discussed elsewhere, and to death. I can see the, potential, benefits of moving but I like The Valley and as I get older the memories will become more important to me. When (assuming he goes first, of course) my Dad dies I think I will feel am even stronger emotional tie to the seats that we sit in now and might find leaving all those memories behind a little tough to accept.
Ultimately, however, the club is a business and an asset that someone can come along and buy and do what ever they choose with it. The Trust (like Portsmouth's) can look to get involved but with football clubs, these days, the sums of money are so large that a group of fans are going to struggle to finance what a rich owner could. I'm sure that if the Trust were willing to buy the club for the reported £35m that they want to sell it for, and guarantee the loans that the club has, and guarantee the running shortfall for a couple of seasons we would all like that but a rough calculation suggests that this option could require substantially more than £50m, and I doubt the trust has £50k let alone £50m. So we are going to have to accept that the owners will do things their way and we have to hope that their goals are aligned with ours.
Not sure that anyone actually mentioned a trust owning a club outright, even Pompey are at the first stages and would more than likely if a success expand to a consortium
Also I take your point but just to clarify, not that long ago the club was worth £0 (because that is what someone was willing to pay) and with less debt, albeit in a different division
I also don't accept that clubs are normal businesses, how many companies could go bust as many times as football clubs do and retain pretty much all their customers assuming its a short period of time. People who deal with clubs also know what they are getting into, and of course any business can go bust.
Comments
But our home is the holy grail to me it's the one thing that bonds us altoghether and is not an option to lose
If whoever when ever tried to move us again for whatever reason I would lose my faith in football
I love Charlton and always will. Had some great days with family and friends watching the Addicks.
As ive got older though, ive realised that there are much much more important things in life.
I look at things like the castrust and think 'how have people got time to arrange and organise all that?'. BUT... i am massively grateful for the supporters that have held this club together and will continue to do so in the future.
I think it would take a massive change involving several of these components to make my love for Charlton fade. I would hate to move,but going to a new stadium within the local area would not make me give up my club. I love the red shirts, but changing to any other colour would not, on it's own, make me either. Changing the badge and the official nickname certainly wouldn't, as I think both are pretty naff. Changing the "feel" of the club from a decent, community based organisation to a hard nosed business that doesn't give a monkeys about anything else WOULD certainly start to erode my feelings, as would a significant change in the decent nature of the majority of my fellow fans. But it would take a combination of many of these factors into a "perfect storm" of change to push me over the edge - and I doubt (hopefully) that would ever occur.
What a fantastic post I totally agree that in grand scheme of my life Charlton is a very small piece these days with me regularly deciding on match days to spend my time with my wife and kids than making the Saturday ritual the be all and end all of my weekend
However If it was decided we were to leave Charlton would be an even smaller priority on my list
That is all.
It matters not to me if CAFC change to paisley shirts and play home games in Greenwich park, my club until I die
Charlton is a point of reference to me in my own identity. Since I moved from England many things have changed and when I come back to visit I dislike all of these things. I want to come home and find things as they were (even the bad things!) because they are reassuring.
Cardiff City owner Vincent Tan has said that promotion to the Premier League could trigger further "rebranding" and did not rule out changing the club's name to Cardiff Dragons.
The Malaysian billionaire has already insisted upon a colour change from blue to red, as well as a new club crest.
"We will think about it when we know the final result of this season," he said about using Cardiff Dragons.
"Then we will think what's the best way to brand it."
Tan acknowledged the "rumours" that have recently emerged over the use of Cardiff Dragons but added: "We haven't discussed this. I've not really thought about this in detail.
"But when we get there we'll make a decision. And when we make a decision we will convey it to everyone."
Tan, who has an estimated wealth of $1.3bn, wants Cardiff to maximise all possible revenue and marketing opportunities in Asia.
Who is Vincent Tan?
Named on the Forbes billionaire list with an estimated worth of $1.3bn (£800m)
He is chairman and chief executive of Berjaya Group and it is a portfolio which includes golfing, property, resorts and gambling
Owns social networking site Friendster.com and has shares in Facebook
Operates Malaysia's MiTV pay-TV service
Bought Malaysia's McDonald's franchise in 1982 and in 1985 bought Sports Toto lottery agency
After buying more than 35% of the club's shares for £6m in 2010, the 61-year-old Malaysian threatened to withdraw his support in June unless the club agreed to ditch its traditional blue home shirts in favour of red ones.
The new colours were accepted, so too a new badge as a Welsh dragon replaced the bluebird, and further investment followed.
In an interview with BBC Wales' Sport Wales programme, he justified the "controversial decision" of the club's colours, and stressed he is prepared to and intends to make more changes.
"A few were upset but like in any business if we get 80% or 75% of the customers happy, with 20-25% not happy, that's fine," he said.
"If they don't want to come to support our business, that's fine. We need the majority."
He added: "I believe the change is for the better. And if you put in a lot of money, surely you have the right to make a call on some things you believe will make it better.
"If you don't have a say, why the hell do you want to put in so much money?"
After years of financial instability, Cardiff were on the brink of administration before Tan's takeover as part of a Malaysian consortium.
The club continues to struggle financially, recording losses of £13.6m in the year up to the end of May 2012, with an overall recorded debt of £83.1m.
The accounts also show that the debt to Langston, the company represented by ex-City owner Sam Hammam, is put at £19.2m, with a one-off payment of £5m due if City reach the Premier League while the debt is outstanding.
Tan said that resolving this debt is a priority for the club, and again called on Langston to renegotiate to a "fair level" and then convert the "unsecured" loan into equity.
If that happens, Tan said he is willing to turn the £63m loan he has given to the club into equity.
"Their loan is not secured," he said. "If anything happens to the club, Langston will get nothing. So I will convert [my loan] if we can resolve with Langston.
"And if Sam Hammam loves Cardiff as he claims he does, he should come and sit down and then we'll find a solution."
Having failed in the Championship play-offs three years in a row, Cardiff are in a stronger position than ever to reach the Premier League.
They have an eight-point lead with 13 games remaining, but Tan said he would not walk away if promotion was not secured.
"If the fans welcome me, I can stay for a long time," he said, promising a further £25m to manager Malky Mackay for new players should they go up.
"But if I find they are not welcoming and rude, then maybe I will find a new buyer and go off. But if I were to sell, I'd make sure I would leave it in good hands."
A section of Cardiff fans continue to oppose Tan's colour change. A protest was held at the end of the last home game to Brighton - which Tan attended - when free red scarves were handed out.
Tan referred to the dissenting voices as "a bunch of mostly young kids" and argued a change was long overdue.
"Have they achieved any success under this bluebirds brand?," he asked "So why do we hold onto something that hasn't achieved much success?"
Watch Sport Wales, BBC Two Wales, Thursday 28 February (19:00 GMT) for an exclusive, all-access look at Vincent Tan's business empire.
However I fully understand why the Cardiff fans wouldn't like it, and I might feel the same if it were Charlton.
Where my selfishness is relevant is that I wouldn't have a problem trading many things about our 'culture and heritage' in exchange for a little more success on the field. Would I want to be the Charlton Dragons - not really. Would I be willing to accept that we were referred to that in China for an extended stay in the top flight? Yes I would! Would I be willing to trade the colour of our home shirt for success? No I wouldn't! Would I stop going if we changed our shirt a little and it was not all red? Probably not. Would I buy a replica shirt if we has a shirt that was not dominated by red? No I wouldn't! However the new owners would be clever enough, I'm sure, to make our away shirt red, which would, probably, be an acceptable purchase for me.
The Valley has been discussed elsewhere, and to death. I can see the, potential, benefits of moving but I like The Valley and as I get older the memories will become more important to me. When (assuming he goes first, of course) my Dad dies I think I will feel am even stronger emotional tie to the seats that we sit in now and might find leaving all those memories behind a little tough to accept.
Ultimately, however, the club is a business and an asset that someone can come along and buy and do what ever they choose with it. The Trust (like Portsmouth's) can look to get involved but with football clubs, these days, the sums of money are so large that a group of fans are going to struggle to finance what a rich owner could. I'm sure that if the Trust were willing to buy the club for the reported £35m that they want to sell it for, and guarantee the loans that the club has, and guarantee the running shortfall for a couple of seasons we would all like that but a rough calculation suggests that this option could require substantially more than £50m, and I doubt the trust has £50k let alone £50m. So we are going to have to accept that the owners will do things their way and we have to hope that their goals are aligned with ours.
Fascinating piece about non-Premiership football from the BBC??? (some mistake shurely)
Cardiff are selling their soul for the benefit of betting syndicates in Asia. Short term glory at the expense of tradition, identity, heritage and culture.
FA and Football League would ban it if they had any balls.
That's good of him, willing to spend £25m of the £70m TV money he gets on players!
I love the posturing though. If Haman waves the £19.2m and converts it into equity in a business that has an £83m debt and a rading loss of £13.6m then he will wipe of the £63m which will, no doubt increase his stake in the club that (I'll say it again) has an £83m loss and a trading loss of £13.6m.
If Haman converts his loan to equity he will never see any of it again and he will have, virtually, no control over the club. However if he waits for promotion to the Premier League he is guaranteed the £5m or presumably he'd take them to court before they receive the last instalment of their £70m TV money for the season.
There really are some sharp practices in the way football clubs are run aren't there?
Why do so many people expect investors to take a hit when they invest millions of pounds of their own money into the club?
Also I take your point but just to clarify, not that long ago the club was worth £0 (because that is what someone was willing to pay) and with less debt, albeit in a different division