Расизм это просто невежество носить различные пальто. Даже самые несколькими культурными странами есть элементы descrimination в той или иной форме.................
@ Henry Irving I agree entirely with your sentiments here,but to complain of others having a 'personal dig' at you is a bit rich. You're not averse to personal digs yourself, and that smiley thing at the end of your comments is simply disingenuous.
You'd never find me resorting to such licence for insult. ;-)
Расизм это просто невежество носить различные пальто. Даже самые несколькими культурными странами есть элементы descrimination в той или иной форме.................
I agree with Henry here. On a recent thread about what to sing to the Brighton fans people were quite happy to go with homophobic chants. And yet (I would hope) that the same supporters of homophobic chants would abhor racist chants. Racism and homophobia - both disgusting. And I see that the Zenit fans have put them together in the same sentence.
I agree with Henry here. On a recent thread about what to sing to the Brighton fans people were quite happy to go with homophobic chants. And yet (I would hope) that the same supporters of homophobic chants would abhor racist chants. Racism and homophobia - both disgusting. And I see that the Zenit fans have put them together in the same sentence.
Surely you can see the huge difference in singing a tongue in cheek jibe like 'we can see you holding hands' at supporters of a football team from a town renowned for its gay community and a large group of supporters saying we don't want any black or gay players???
Why our supporters are even being dragged into this I don't know.
It is a valid point, Russia has it much worse as like many countries in that part of the world they can be behind the times of a modern world that we live in, they need to be given chance to catch the world up and that is one of the reasons why i think it is a good thing they got the rights to host the World Cup, football is a game that has shown it can make a difference and now they have the worlds media setting there sights on them for 2018 and the biggest sporting event in the world, they will find themselves forced to deal with there racism and homophobic issues, even if many of them have to be dragged in to the modern world.
Lets be honest though, events in the last 12/18 months of English football have shown even one of the best countries for kicking out abuse can slowly start slipping back down in to the worst form of public, we need to sort our own game not just moan about the foreigners.
Расизм это просто невежество носить различные пальто. Даже самые несколькими культурными странами есть элементы descrimination в той или иной форме.................
Vert telling, this, that there's apparently no Russian word for discrimination!
It has taken our democracy a great deal of time to develop notions of tolerance and acceptance. As a 7 year old child, back in the 50's, my neighbour and school friend, also 7 years old, wasn't allowed to enter my garden let alone my home because she was of Indian descent. I was sent to my room for 'encouraging the wog'. Russians are finding their voice and exercising freedoms after endless decades truly suffering under different types of dictatorship and oppression. Of course it's highly unpleasant, I wish that it was different but I agree with GGA, Russia has to be allowed time to develop just as we needed the time ourselves, and as recent events have shown, we also have some way to go.
No surprises to see a stupid comment or two needlessly linking it back to Charlton fans...
We're not even talking about Brighton, or homophobic chants. As Gary suggested, the difference between the fashion of the two scenarios is pretty wide.
Dislike this story that bit more because I was seriously thinking of buying a Zenit top as I think their shirt has always looked really nice, don't think I can really do that now.
It has taken our democracy a great deal of time to develop notions of tolerance and acceptance. As a 7 year old child, back in the 50's, my neighbour and school friend, also 7 years old, wasn't allowed to enter my garden let alone my home because she was of Indian descent. I was sent to my room for 'encouraging the wog'. Russians are finding their voice and exercising freedoms after endless decades truly suffering under different types of dictatorship and oppression. Of course it's highly unpleasant, I wish that it was different but I agree with GGA, Russia has to be allowed time to develop just as we needed the time ourselves, and as recent events have shown, we also have some way to go.
Very well put, but playing devils advocate, has Russia developed enough to deserve the World Cup? Or is it just a financial benfit for the committee members who have awarded them the World Cup?
Again this site just falls into arguments... And pretty jibes... I think it's fair to say there is a big difference between Russians who actively form organisation spouting racial and sexual orientation hatred and a few fans pulling the leg of another group of fans...
In all honesty, theres no point coming on here acting all surprised as I'm not, same old boring comments on these kinds of threads anyway from the usual suspects...
But Henry why did you feel the need to say it at all?? Just to get people's backs up straightaway. No one surely would agree with the article and you set the tone more or less straightaway! It's just annoying.
But Henry why did you feel the need to say it at all?? Just to get people's backs up straightaway. No one surely would agree with the article and you set the tone more or less straightaway! It's just annoying.
This
When I said "people get offended on behalf of others" in a previous thread, it was about two grown men on a football pitch and I felt it was banter and that it should've stayed on the pitch, nothing to do with it being "close to home". Who would bother excusing a stupid open letter from a fans group!?
Ignoring whether Henry was right or wrong to suggest there's a degree of hypocracy involved in the (likely) views expressed on this thread isn't the real issue here that the largest organised supporters group in the country felt able to publicly commit to this hateful view?
It's all very well saying that their society needs time to develop more enlightened views but the fact is modern day Russia is not like the UK of 50 years ago. They've had the same access to modern films, music, internet, social media, sport, travel, etc, etc for some time now yet there is clearly a culture underlying this which leads groups like this to not only think it, but think it's an acceptable thing to state in public.
If it takes FIFA sanctions to get the message across that the world is moving on so be it but I'm not holding my breath.
Ignoring whether Henry was right or wrong to suggest there's a degree of hypocracy involved in the (likely) views expressed on this thread isn't the real issue here that the largest organised supporters group in the country felt able to publicly commit to this hateful view?
It's all very well saying that their society needs time to develop more enlightened views but the fact is modern day Russia is not like the UK of 50 years ago. They've had the same access to modern films, music, internet, social media, sport, travel, etc, etc for some time now yet there is clearly a culture underlying this which leads groups like this to not only think it, but think it's an acceptable thing to state in public.
If it takes FIFA sanctions to get the message across that the world is moving on so be it but I'm not holding my breath.
Not sure if you know for a fact but all I read was that this group are Zenit's biggest supporter group, personally I have no idea if they are the best supported group in Russia.
I read plenty of articles about this open letter and none can confirm how many fans are in this group. It's pretty difficult to tell form this story how widespread the problem is, yet read any of our tabloids and they are jumping up and down at this.
I'm not saying racism in any form is acceptable just that as has been pointed out, in our country there seems to be an attitude to brush off any racism that occurs here as "a few individuals", in another problem you hear the words "majority" and "widespread" trotted out. But is it? I know newspapers are reporting it but after everything that has happened recently how much can we trust what the press are telling us?
One article I read had a quote from Wagner Love, in his seven years (quite a substantial amount of time to be playing in a country so you would assume he would know) he said that the only time he received any racist abuse was from Zenit fans.
I'm not trying to play down what this fans group have said, I feel they should be dealt with by the authorities. What I am against is labelling a whole country as having a huge problem when there isn't that much hard evidence of it.
Comments
And mine was the 4th post after the OP so "everyone" was 3 people.
Point stands. For SOME when its close to home its "being offended on others behalf" but when it is overseas it's shocking.
I agree entirely with your sentiments here,but to complain of others having a 'personal dig' at you is a bit rich.
You're not averse to personal digs yourself, and that smiley thing at the end of your comments is simply disingenuous.
You'd never find me resorting to such licence for insult. ;-)
On a serious note this is pretty shocking but then again, it is Russia and they have nationwide-previous.
Racism and homophobia - both disgusting. And I see that the Zenit fans have put them together in the same sentence.
Why our supporters are even being dragged into this I don't know.
Lets be honest though, events in the last 12/18 months of English football have shown even one of the best countries for kicking out abuse can slowly start slipping back down in to the worst form of public, we need to sort our own game not just moan about the foreigners.
If the cap fits... Let other people have different opinions to you.
We're not even talking about Brighton, or homophobic chants. As Gary suggested, the difference between the fashion of the two scenarios is pretty wide.
But as I said, no surprises.
The give-away was when the post started "Henry Irving" ???
In all honesty, theres no point coming on here acting all surprised as I'm not, same old boring comments on these kinds of threads anyway from the usual suspects...
When I said "people get offended on behalf of others" in a previous thread, it was about two grown men on a football pitch and I felt it was banter and that it should've stayed on the pitch, nothing to do with it being "close to home". Who would bother excusing a stupid open letter from a fans group!?
It's all very well saying that their society needs time to develop more enlightened views but the fact is modern day Russia is not like the UK of 50 years ago. They've had the same access to modern films, music, internet, social media, sport, travel, etc, etc for some time now yet there is clearly a culture underlying this which leads groups like this to not only think it, but think it's an acceptable thing to state in public.
If it takes FIFA sanctions to get the message across that the world is moving on so be it but I'm not holding my breath.
I read plenty of articles about this open letter and none can confirm how many fans are in this group. It's pretty difficult to tell form this story how widespread the problem is, yet read any of our tabloids and they are jumping up and down at this.
I'm not saying racism in any form is acceptable just that as has been pointed out, in our country there seems to be an attitude to brush off any racism that occurs here as "a few individuals", in another problem you hear the words "majority" and "widespread" trotted out. But is it? I know newspapers are reporting it but after everything that has happened recently how much can we trust what the press are telling us?
One article I read had a quote from Wagner Love, in his seven years (quite a substantial amount of time to be playing in a country so you would assume he would know) he said that the only time he received any racist abuse was from Zenit fans.
I'm not trying to play down what this fans group have said, I feel they should be dealt with by the authorities. What I am against is labelling a whole country as having a huge problem when there isn't that much hard evidence of it.