To be fair to the BBC...... selectively ignoring a bit of racism is a step up from selectively ignoring institutionalised kiddy fiddling by its top entertainers.
Yep that's pretty disgraceful in terms of hypocrisy and double standards. The intent and conscious connection is inherently and explicitly there in Sugar's tweet which is a world away from Baker's in terms of intended implications.
I'm pretty sure from the thread so far, that Danny Baker is a marmite character (that's not a racist euphemism is it?) and some on here will dislike him for his Millwall connection, others just find him unamusing, maybe even boring. I find him to be quite an intellectual with significant knowledge about very many things. It seems unfathomable to comprehend how he get this one so very wrong.
Seeing him on the news saying he didn't even know who had had a baby is extraordinary to the extreme. It's not as though he lives in a remote village in a far flung country. He lives in England and works for BBC. His 'employer' has been running a sub-plot about the royal baby being black for about 6 months and he is oblivious.
Cheeky he most definitely he is, but he's no James Whale (who shamefully I loved as a kid). A racist, I'm not sure, but as Del Boy would say to Rodders, all I could think was "You plonker".
Have any of you who condemn him actually listen to his show? Wall to wall whimsy, absurdity and silliness. He has a strange obsession with chimps and finds the idea of them doing certain things hilarious. He is also well known for having digs at the aristocracy, with their own particular brand of absurdism; which was clearly his intent here.
Maybe he was half-cut. He was certainly naive, given the modern equivalent of the Witchfinder General which exists these days in the form of thousands of super-woke social justice warriors who comb social media twenty four hours a day looking for something to be offended about. They can then go to bed feeling very pleased with themselves for having destroyed someone's life because they, the self-appointed judge, jury and executioner, somehow has a superpower that allows them to not just infer, but actually, indisputably know what others' motivations are for any particular action. They should all work for the Police really (or maybe they don't seems as it appears that the Police now work for them).
I find it speaks volumes that, when they see a picture of a chimp in that context, they think of black people. I didn't, and neither did DB. But that matters not; they KNOW he is guilty and therefore his life must be destroyed without pause for thought or any kind of due process. BURN THE WITCH!
It may be good at this point to remind everyone of Hanlon's Razor: 'Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity'; but wisdom and common sense have been banished in the age of the new puritans of the church of political correctness. We are now in some kind of new McCarthy-ite age where the hunt for non-existent Communists has been replaced by the hunt for non-existent racists.
If he were being racist, then he would deserves all he gets. Why is it that we a manslaughter charge in this country? It is because an offence of murder depends upon intent. But, this matters not to the SJWs. They are creating their own little Orwellian society where big brother knows your thoughts better than you do and will then serve their 'justice' on a whim. If the SJWs decide you are guilty of bad faith, then you are - because they are, apparently, infallible. When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail; if you see racism everywhere, then everyone will be judged a racist.
Let me put something out here. Imagine that one of these SJWs sees our club badge and decides that it has connotations of the crusades and therefore we are all racists. Would you agree to change the badge immediately and apologise or would you tell them to go fuck themselves? This is the divide that has been created in our country; effectively between the former and the latter (I am in the latter camp, as you've probably surmised). Are you happy with our new, un-appointed, infallible judiciary? Because I'm not - we are firmly on the road to 'thought crimes' and that scares the shit out of me.
Sometimes, I fucking hate what this country has become. I hate the BBC for being so spineless and judgemental in the face of the modern day Mary Whitehouse brigade; who I wish would kindly go and exterminate themselves for the good of humanity. They do way more harm than good.
So, as the cloak of censorship and the grip of the thought police tightens further over this country; I bet the great and virtuous will be surprised when the politics of this country lurches further to the right in reaction to their Stalinist approach and their sanctimonious, humourless worldview. But then again, they never were a bright bunch - just the embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Sorry, rant over. But this is an embodiment of the way that society is going and it will create a backlash where actual racists will be able to thrive, thanks to the SJWs and their apologists.
But comparing black and mixed heritage people to monkeys is a well established trope of racists. As a keen football supporter he would have heard the monkey noises aimed at black players and seen the bananas thrown at them. He has no excuse. Nor do you in defending him.
If we were saying “he only meant to refer to a mixed race baby as a monkey for jokes” then sure, that’s wrongly defending him. Pointing out that there was no racial issue intended, which is bloody obvious to me, strikes me as trying to straighten this out, rather then defend the indefensible.
Drawing a parallel to banana throwing is ludicrous in that context.
As I said earlier I don't know if he is or isn't racist. Comparing a mixed parentage child to a monkey however is a racist trope that has been around for centuries. The reference to terrace racism was made because he has made his career partly on being a man of the people who takes part in mass entertainmants. At the Den I can't believe he didn't hear or see racism expressed through monkey noises and throwing bananas (monkey food) at black players. He chose to post this. He deserves the whirlwind he created.
I was trying to point out that the context doesn’t make sense. But you just repeated yourself.
I believe he didn’t think of the baby as mixed race. Stupidly, sure. But if he’s not thinking of the baby as mixed race, what he did or didn’t see on the terraces is completely and utterly irrelevant.
I do not think Baker is the slightest bit racist. I don't like him but to be fair you could have hardly avoided him over the last 40 years if you share his interests in music, football and trivia. I cannot recall him even make a tiny generalisation to a race or nationality like many did 30+ years ago like Germans nicking the sunbeds or Italians being bad drivers etc. I know he is fan of Monty Python, Fawlty Towers and Only Fools and these programs contain some shocking racist pieces and some casual ones too. He does not or has ever himself done the same on TV or radio or in print as far as I know. If he had someone would have found it by now. However the post WAS racist intentionally or otherwise. To say if you associate monkeys with people of colour then you are the racist is utter rubbish. Our society does it through the idiots who make noises to black footballers etc. It is a so high profile problem that you'd have to have been living like a hermit for years to not be aware. Anyone of even limited intelligence knows of this kind of disgusting behaviour. It was not Bakers intention to be racist, I 100% believe that but it was so utterly stupid to not realise that it would be seen a racist. Some of the apologists for him have been beyond belief, his supposed fascination with monkeys dressed as humans is a really weak argument. Whether he should have been sacked for it I'm not sure but personally I'm glad he's off the airways, for now at least. I don't see how the BBC had any option. Remember Carol Thatcher on The One Show? They set a precedent with her after she described Jo-Wilfried Tsonga as a cuddly golliwog, and that was off air in the Green Room.
The post simply was not racist. Racism is about believing you or someone else is superior based upon race.
The picture was taking the piss out of posh people... Last time I checked posh wasn't a race.
My statement was that if you associated a chimp with a person of colour then you are racist.
The football 'fans' throwing bananas and making monkey noises are associating people of colour with chimps/monkeys... They are racist.
If you then continue to associate those things I have to say, I believe that makes you racist.
I think your definition of racism is a little simplistic. We know what Baker's intention was, as you say, to take the pee out of posh people. However what the post actually was was a picture of a little monkey dressed up as a human and described as the new royal baby who's mother is of mixed race. If you cannot see how that can be seen as racist, whatever your own interpretation, then there is little more I can add.
I think everyone understands how it can be seen as racist, including DB himself, which is why he removed it. But the point is, when he posted it, he was not thinking along these lines and never actually meant to cause offence. As soon as it was pointed out that it was offensive, he removed the picture and duly apologised. I'm not sure why people can't just accept it was an error, accept his apology and think no more of it.
I’m truly open to it, I swear I am, but I haven’t heard one remotely convincing argument against your post.
I am a bit puzzled that people are largely ignoring the fact that it was a very unpleasant and thoughtless thing to do or say about a new born child and two happy adoring parents.....no matter who the parents are and what section of society they are from, they shouldn’t be vilified in such a way, to do so is classless. Forget the racial undertones......I just think his action to put that on his account was enough to get him fired. Tasteless, classless and unnecessarily spiteful.....something he clearly didn’t care about.
Danny Baker is talking a load of bollox and that’s why you know there was a racial undertone in his post
to even suggest to those that are listening to his lies and excuses that he never knew Megan is mixed race and that the baby will therefore be mixed race is bullshit
if you were to make monkey gestures or sounds towards a player on a football pitch you get your picture in the paper and banned arrested and possibly jailed . Why because it’s clearly apparent you are suggesting the black player is a monkey
in his tweet he has posted a monkey being led from a building and states it’s the royal baby leaving hospital
no different from the paragraph above,
when i I see the the three tweets about Williams three beautiful kids leaving hospital and the monkey pics he posted about them I may change my mind until then he needs to stop digging and wait for it go away and apologize properly and go on I’m a celebrity
That's problematic though, if Farage, someone who many will claim is a racist posted that, he would be absolutely destroyed on here.
If Tommy Robinson posted it, it's obvious the intent, but I think it's difficult to judge people based on our previous assumptions about them. It creates grey areas.
This is the issue of sewer that is Twitter and a lot of online stuff, there's no real ability to have nuance due to it being text, and a lot of people will roam the internet looking to take offence, bringing down someone's career is fun for a lot of these people.
Yep that's pretty disgraceful in terms of hypocrisy and double standards. The intent and conscious connection is inherently and explicitly there in Sugar's tweet which is a world away from Baker's in terms of intended implications.
That's problematic though, if Farage, someone who many will claim is a racist posted that, he would be absolutely destroyed on here.
If Tommy Robinson posted it, it's obvious the intent, but I think it's difficult to judge people based on our previous assumptions about them. It creates grey areas.
This is the issue of sewer that is Twitter and a lot of online stuff, there's no real ability to have nuance due to it being text, and a lot of people will roam the internet looking to take offence, bringing down someone's career is fun for a lot of these people.
Just stay of Twitter, kids.
Totally agree. If you're pro controlled immigatration, or anti Islam like Farage, TR, or Trump, you're racist and there's absolutely no coming back. Although, If everyone is honest, can anyone genuinely see one of the above posting what DB did?
If the likes of Frankie Boyle, Gervais etc. post it, it's misinterpreted and there's no way that they are racist, if you dont get the Tweet, you're stupid....
As someone said earlier up the threat, the Tweet can too easily be construed as racist, regardless of any intent, but DB is just too liberal to realise it
@Lincsaddick - I will take you up on your LOL on my post. Are you suggesting that Danny Baker is a racist, and that he tweeted that picture as a demonstration of that racism?
you'll take me up ? .. I know not if Baker is a racist .. what I believe is that he is a jumped up twerp who thinks he's funny and amusing, talents that many on here also attribute to him. They are of course entitled to their view. His tweet whether or not racist or merely intended just as a joke at the expense of the royal family is a good example of his arrogance bordering on idiocy. I think he's as funny as a kick in the bollocks (if I were on the receiving end) and as amusing as a wet day in Dungeness, i.e. I cannot stand sight nor sound of the geezer .. does that answer your query adequately ?
Not in any way, shape or form, unless you think "don't know" is any kind of answer in this context. You just repeated that you dislike him for other reasons, so are happy he has been sacked. You have, in time honoured fashion, dodged the question.
A few of the "hang 'em, flog 'em, it's PC gone mad" types suddenly gone all soft and fluffy because they don't like the bloke involved.
pedantic arguing as usual from you .. I have no idea of Baker's state of mind re 'racism' and neither do you have any idea .. so do me a favour and bore off ..
"Man backed into a corner resorts to insults shocker"...
That's problematic though, if Farage, someone who many will claim is a racist posted that, he would be absolutely destroyed on here.
If Tommy Robinson posted it, it's obvious the intent, but I think it's difficult to judge people based on our previous assumptions about them. It creates grey areas.
This is the issue of sewer that is Twitter and a lot of online stuff, there's no real ability to have nuance due to it being text, and a lot of people will roam the internet looking to take offence, bringing down someone's career is fun for a lot of these people.
Just stay of Twitter, kids.
Totally agree. If you're pro controlled immigatration, or anti Islam like Farage, TR, or Trump, you're racist and there's absolutely no coming back. Although, If everyone is honest, can anyone genuinely see one of the above posting what DB did?
If the likes of Frankie Boyle, Gervais etc. post it, it's misinterpreted and there's no way that they are racist, if you dont get the Tweet, you're stupid....
As someone said earlier up the threat, the Tweet can too easily be construed as racist, regardless of any intent, but DB is just too liberal to realise it
Pretty sure Frankie Boyle wouldn't have tweeted it and let's face it he's said enough disgusting and offensive things in his time... All the time in fact. He even took the sun to court and won over being called racist.
That's problematic though, if Farage, someone who many will claim is a racist posted that, he would be absolutely destroyed on here.
If Tommy Robinson posted it, it's obvious the intent, but I think it's difficult to judge people based on our previous assumptions about them. It creates grey areas.
This is the issue of sewer that is Twitter and a lot of online stuff, there's no real ability to have nuance due to it being text, and a lot of people will roam the internet looking to take offence, bringing down someone's career is fun for a lot of these people.
Just stay of Twitter, kids.
Totally agree. If you're pro controlled immigatration, or anti Islam like Farage, TR, or Trump, you're racist and there's absolutely no coming back. Although, If everyone is honest, can anyone genuinely see one of the above posting what DB did?
If the likes of Frankie Boyle, Gervais etc. post it, it's misinterpreted and there's no way that they are racist, if you dont get the Tweet, you're stupid....
As someone said earlier up the threat, the Tweet can too easily be construed as racist, regardless of any intent, but DB is just too liberal to realise it
Pretty sure Frankie Boyle wouldn't have tweeted it and let's face it he's said enough disgusting and offensive things in his time... All the time in fact. He even took the sun to court and won over being called racist.
Farage, TR and Trump should have a bloody good case an all then
Fair play to Baker for fronting up yesterday and speaking to various media bods on his doorstep. He could easily have hidden away for a bit. However the more he said the more his defence became a bit like Harry Redknapp in court. All the I didn’t knows and I’ve never heard of and I don’t even have a mobile phone. Then he said the “joke” would have worked with 99.9% of the royal family. Would it? Where was the actual joke? He’s gone very quiet on Twitter for once, good advice from his agent etc I imagine.
I'm not sure Sugar even works for the BBC. Pretty sure The Apprentice is made by an independent TV company that sell it to the BBC.
As is your beloved Question Time, mind, and I don't think anyone seriously argues that the BBC doesn't have responsibility for the cesspit that has become.
If you are not aware, QT is made by Mentorn Media and the woman responsible for QT there, Alison Fuller Pedley, is a tad controversial...(but no wish to divert this thread, happy to discuss on the Cesspit Thread)
I hate Jamie Carragher. I despise him. I hate what he says and I hate the sound he makes when he says it. I have to mute my TV when he does commentary. Which is why I am really frustrated that, despite actually spitting on a teenage girl, while driving home from work (I was told at Sky that staff are representing the company on the commute to and from the office), he kept his job and it all got forgotten.
Compared to what Baker has been villified and sacked for, it seems utterly mad to me. And will annoy me even more when I have to hear his whinging voice on TV on Sunday.
I don't know if this post really has a point, I just hate Jamie Carragher enough to post it.
"Good morning, everyone.
Following one of the worst days of my life I just want to formally apologise for the outrage I caused and explain how I got myself into this mess.
I chose the wrong photo to illustrate a joke. Disastrously so.
"In attempting to lampoon privilege & the news cycle I went to a file of goofy pictures & saw the chimp dressed as a Lord and thought, "That's the one!" Had I kept searching I might have chosen General Tom Thumb or even a a baby in a crown. But I didn't. God knows I wish had.
"Minutes later I was alerted by followers that this royal baby was of course mixed race and waves of panic and revulsion washed over me. Fuck, what had I done? I needed no lessons on the centuries slurs equating simians and people of colour. Racism at it's basest.
"I am aware black people do not need a white man to tell them this. Deleting it immediately and apologising for the awful gaffe I even foolishly tried to make light of it. (My situation that is, not the racism involved.) Too late and here I am.
"I would like once and for all to apologise to every single person who, quite naturally, took the awful connection at face value. I understand that and all of the clamour and opprobrium I have faced since. I am not feeling sorry for myself. I fucked up. Badly.
"But it was a genuine, naive and catastrophic mistake. There is of course little media/twitter traction in such a straight-forward explanation. The picture in context as presented was obviously shamefully racist. It was never intended so - seriously who on earth would 'go there'?
"Anyway i am now paying the price for this crass & regrettable blunder and rightly so. Probably even this final word from me will extend the mania. ('Dog whistle' anyone?) I would like to thank friends on here for their kinder words and once again - I am so, so sorry."
I hate Jamie Carragher. I despise him. I hate what he says and I hate the sound he makes when he says it. I have to mute my TV when he does commentary. Which is why I am really frustrated that, despite actually spitting on a teenage girl, while driving home from work (I was told at Sky that staff are representing the company on the commute to and from the office), he kept his job and it all got forgotten.
Compared to what Baker has been villified and sacked for, it seems utterly mad to me. And will annoy me even more when I have to hear his whinging voice on TV on Sunday.
I don't know if this post really has a point, I just hate Jamie Carragher enough to post it.
"Good morning, everyone.
Following one of the worst days of my life I just want to formally apologise for the outrage I caused and explain how I got myself into this mess.
I chose the wrong photo to illustrate a joke. Disastrously so.
"In attempting to lampoon privilege & the news cycle I went to a file of goofy pictures & saw the chimp dressed as a Lord and thought, "That's the one!" Had I kept searching I might have chosen General Tom Thumb or even a a baby in a crown. But I didn't. God knows I wish had.
"Minutes later I was alerted by followers that this royal baby was of course mixed race and waves of panic and revulsion washed over me. Fuck, what had I done? I needed no lessons on the centuries slurs equating simians and people of colour. Racism at it's basest.
"I am aware black people do not need a white man to tell them this. Deleting it immediately and apologising for the awful gaffe I even foolishly tried to make light of it. (My situation that is, not the racism involved.) Too late and here I am.
"I would like once and for all to apologise to every single person who, quite naturally, took the awful connection at face value. I understand that and all of the clamour and opprobrium I have faced since. I am not feeling sorry for myself. I fucked up. Badly.
"But it was a genuine, naive and catastrophic mistake. There is of course little media/twitter traction in such a straight-forward explanation. The picture in context as presented was obviously shamefully racist. It was never intended so - seriously who on earth would 'go there'?
"Anyway i am now paying the price for this crass & regrettable blunder and rightly so. Probably even this final word from me will extend the mania. ('Dog whistle' anyone?) I would like to thank friends on here for their kinder words and once again - I am so, so sorry."
At least he admits the picture and caption itself was undoubtedly racist, something that some on here could not see. Goodness knows why not.
Comments
Great spot.
Seeing him on the news saying he didn't even know who had had a baby is extraordinary to the extreme. It's not as though he lives in a remote village in a far flung country. He lives in England and works for BBC. His 'employer' has been running a sub-plot about the royal baby being black for about 6 months and he is oblivious.
Cheeky he most definitely he is, but he's no James Whale (who shamefully I loved as a kid). A racist, I'm not sure, but as Del Boy would say to Rodders, all I could think was "You plonker".
I believe he didn’t think of the baby as mixed race. Stupidly, sure. But if he’s not thinking of the baby as mixed race, what he did or didn’t see on the terraces is completely and utterly irrelevant.
Forget the racial undertones......I just think his action to put that on his account was enough to get him fired.
Tasteless, classless and unnecessarily spiteful.....something he clearly didn’t care about.
to even suggest to those that are listening to his lies and excuses that he never knew Megan is mixed race and that the baby will therefore be mixed race is bullshit
if you were to make monkey gestures or sounds towards a player on a football pitch you get your picture in the paper and banned arrested and possibly jailed . Why because it’s clearly apparent you are suggesting the black player is a monkey
in his tweet he has posted a monkey being led from a building and states it’s the royal baby leaving hospital
no different from the paragraph above,
when i I see the the three tweets about Williams three beautiful kids leaving hospital and the monkey pics he posted about them I may change my mind until then he needs to stop digging and wait for it go away and apologize properly and go on I’m a celebrity
That's problematic though, if Farage, someone who many will claim is a racist posted that, he would be absolutely destroyed on here.
If Tommy Robinson posted it, it's obvious the intent, but I think it's difficult to judge people based on our previous assumptions about them. It creates grey areas.
This is the issue of sewer that is Twitter and a lot of online stuff, there's no real ability to have nuance due to it being text, and a lot of people will roam the internet looking to take offence, bringing down someone's career is fun for a lot of these people.
Just stay of Twitter, kids.
If the likes of Frankie Boyle, Gervais etc. post it, it's misinterpreted and there's no way that they are racist, if you dont get the Tweet, you're stupid....
As someone said earlier up the threat, the Tweet can too easily be construed as racist, regardless of any intent, but DB is just too liberal to realise it
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/danny-bakers-live-on-air-rant-at-bbc-bosses-shows-their-attitude-to-age-isnt-changing-8276979.html
If you are not aware, QT is made by Mentorn Media and the woman responsible for QT there, Alison Fuller Pedley, is a tad controversial...(but no wish to divert this thread, happy to discuss on the Cesspit Thread)
I hate Jamie Carragher. I despise him. I hate what he says and I hate the sound he makes when he says it. I have to mute my TV when he does commentary. Which is why I am really frustrated that, despite actually spitting on a teenage girl, while driving home from work (I was told at Sky that staff are representing the company on the commute to and from the office), he kept his job and it all got forgotten.
Compared to what Baker has been villified and sacked for, it seems utterly mad to me. And will annoy me even more when I have to hear his whinging voice on TV on Sunday.
I don't know if this post really has a point, I just hate Jamie Carragher enough to post it.
"Good morning, everyone. Following one of the worst days of my life I just want to formally apologise for the outrage I caused and explain how I got myself into this mess. I chose the wrong photo to illustrate a joke. Disastrously so.
"In attempting to lampoon privilege & the news cycle I went to a file of goofy pictures & saw the chimp dressed as a Lord and thought, "That's the one!" Had I kept searching I might have chosen General Tom Thumb or even a a baby in a crown. But I didn't. God knows I wish had.
"Minutes later I was alerted by followers that this royal baby was of course mixed race and waves of panic and revulsion washed over me. Fuck, what had I done? I needed no lessons on the centuries slurs equating simians and people of colour. Racism at it's basest.
"I am aware black people do not need a white man to tell them this. Deleting it immediately and apologising for the awful gaffe I even foolishly tried to make light of it. (My situation that is, not the racism involved.) Too late and here I am.
"I would like once and for all to apologise to every single person who, quite naturally, took the awful connection at face value. I understand that and all of the clamour and opprobrium I have faced since. I am not feeling sorry for myself. I fucked up. Badly.
"But it was a genuine, naive and catastrophic mistake. There is of course little media/twitter traction in such a straight-forward explanation. The picture in context as presented was obviously shamefully racist. It was never intended so - seriously who on earth would 'go there'?
"Anyway i am now paying the price for this crass & regrettable blunder and rightly so. Probably even this final word from me will extend the mania. ('Dog whistle' anyone?) I would like to thank friends on here for their kinder words and once again - I am so, so sorry."
danny baker - is reffering to a mixed race child as baby chimp!.
both wrong - but one is a hell of a lot worse.
SKY however are on a whole other level!!