Stuff and things. I don't want to argue anymore I'm pretty sure we all agree racism is wrong, Baker isn't racist, baker's post was received as offence.
I think people are wrapped up in their dislike of Baker here.
You're assuming racism because you don't like him. He isn't racist. It wasn't racism. It wasn't intended to cause offence.
Not intended to cause offence!!!!! Jesus Christ Dazzler......that’s the very point......it did cause offence and quite understandably so. I was pretty offended myself and the whole point is, at worst, he didn’t give a fuck if it did or not or secondly didn’t think it would. He was wrong on both counts. If I posted something like that about your family you’d be out and about looking for me to throw a right hander..........and who would blame you.
I mean my little girl is a right mischievous little monkey at the moment and I'm not a fan of physical violence despite being trained in Jiu Jitsu, so I'd probably be able to refrain.
If and this is a big if he intended to cause offence through racism, burn the little bastard.
My Hubby has his own standard before posting anything on social media.
He types it out, reads it back to himself whilst saying, ‘would the Missus let me say this out loud’ before promptly deleting it.
Seems Mr Baker would have been wise to run this past his own Missus first.
Whatever he may or may not have meant by that tweet is completely immaterial. It’s open to interpretation which could lead to causing offence. He’s long enough in the tooth to know better. And it sounds like he knows why he was given the tin tack as a result.
Why some one are still wasting oxygen fighting over it is beyond me.
Have any of you who condemn him actually listen to his show? Wall to wall whimsy, absurdity and silliness. He has a strange obsession with chimps and finds the idea of them doing certain things hilarious. He is also well known for having digs at the aristocracy, with their own particular brand of absurdism; which was clearly his intent here.
Maybe he was half-cut. He was certainly naive, given the modern equivalent of the Witchfinder General which exists these days in the form of thousands of super-woke social justice warriors who comb social media twenty four hours a day looking for something to be offended about. They can then go to bed feeling very pleased with themselves for having destroyed someone's life because they, the self-appointed judge, jury and executioner, somehow has a superpower that allows them to not just infer, but actually, indisputably know what others' motivations are for any particular action. They should all work for the Police really (or maybe they don't seems as it appears that the Police now work for them).
I find it speaks volumes that, when they see a picture of a chimp in that context, they think of black people. I didn't, and neither did DB. But that matters not; they KNOW he is guilty and therefore his life must be destroyed without pause for thought or any kind of due process. BURN THE WITCH!
It may be good at this point to remind everyone of Hanlon's Razor: 'Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity'; but wisdom and common sense have been banished in the age of the new puritans of the church of political correctness. We are now in some kind of new McCarthy-ite age where the hunt for non-existent Communists has been replaced by the hunt for non-existent racists.
If he were being racist, then he would deserves all he gets. Why is it that we a manslaughter charge in this country? It is because an offence of murder depends upon intent. But, this matters not to the SJWs. They are creating their own little Orwellian society where big brother knows your thoughts better than you do and will then serve their 'justice' on a whim. If the SJWs decide you are guilty of bad faith, then you are - because they are, apparently, infallible. When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail; if you see racism everywhere, then everyone will be judged a racist.
Let me put something out here. Imagine that one of these SJWs sees our club badge and decides that it has connotations of the crusades and therefore we are all racists. Would you agree to change the badge immediately and apologise or would you tell them to go fuck themselves? This is the divide that has been created in our country; effectively between the former and the latter (I am in the latter camp, as you've probably surmised). Are you happy with our new, un-appointed, infallible judiciary? Because I'm not - we are firmly on the road to 'thought crimes' and that scares the shit out of me.
Sometimes, I fucking hate what this country has become. I hate the BBC for being so spineless and judgemental in the face of the modern day Mary Whitehouse brigade; who I wish would kindly go and exterminate themselves for the good of humanity. They do way more harm than good.
So, as the cloak of censorship and the grip of the thought police tightens further over this country; I bet the great and virtuous will be surprised when the politics of this country lurches further to the right in reaction to their Stalinist approach and their sanctimonious, humourless worldview. But then again, they never were a bright bunch - just the embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Sorry, rant over. But this is an embodiment of the way that society is going and it will create a backlash where actual racists will be able to thrive, thanks to the SJWs and their apologists.
But comparing black and mixed heritage people to monkeys is a well established trope of racists. As a keen football supporter he would have heard the monkey noises aimed at black players and seen the bananas thrown at them. He has no excuse. Nor do you in defending him.
If we were saying “he only meant to refer to a mixed race baby as a monkey for jokes” then sure, that’s wrongly defending him. Pointing out that there was no racial issue intended, which is bloody obvious to me, strikes me as trying to straighten this out, rather then defend the indefensible.
Drawing a parallel to banana throwing is ludicrous in that context.
Bigot is an interesting slur coming from a poster known for anti-Irish and anti-immigrant posts, and has abused Lifers living abroad as 'traitors' or attacked their non-British spouses/families. Coming from you that is rich.
Have any of you who condemn him actually listen to his show? Wall to wall whimsy, absurdity and silliness. He has a strange obsession with chimps and finds the idea of them doing certain things hilarious. He is also well known for having digs at the aristocracy, with their own particular brand of absurdism; which was clearly his intent here.
Maybe he was half-cut. He was certainly naive, given the modern equivalent of the Witchfinder General which exists these days in the form of thousands of super-woke social justice warriors who comb social media twenty four hours a day looking for something to be offended about. They can then go to bed feeling very pleased with themselves for having destroyed someone's life because they, the self-appointed judge, jury and executioner, somehow has a superpower that allows them to not just infer, but actually, indisputably know what others' motivations are for any particular action. They should all work for the Police really (or maybe they don't seems as it appears that the Police now work for them).
I find it speaks volumes that, when they see a picture of a chimp in that context, they think of black people. I didn't, and neither did DB. But that matters not; they KNOW he is guilty and therefore his life must be destroyed without pause for thought or any kind of due process. BURN THE WITCH!
It may be good at this point to remind everyone of Hanlon's Razor: 'Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity'; but wisdom and common sense have been banished in the age of the new puritans of the church of political correctness. We are now in some kind of new McCarthy-ite age where the hunt for non-existent Communists has been replaced by the hunt for non-existent racists.
If he were being racist, then he would deserves all he gets. Why is it that we a manslaughter charge in this country? It is because an offence of murder depends upon intent. But, this matters not to the SJWs. They are creating their own little Orwellian society where big brother knows your thoughts better than you do and will then serve their 'justice' on a whim. If the SJWs decide you are guilty of bad faith, then you are - because they are, apparently, infallible. When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail; if you see racism everywhere, then everyone will be judged a racist.
Let me put something out here. Imagine that one of these SJWs sees our club badge and decides that it has connotations of the crusades and therefore we are all racists. Would you agree to change the badge immediately and apologise or would you tell them to go fuck themselves? This is the divide that has been created in our country; effectively between the former and the latter (I am in the latter camp, as you've probably surmised). Are you happy with our new, un-appointed, infallible judiciary? Because I'm not - we are firmly on the road to 'thought crimes' and that scares the shit out of me.
Sometimes, I fucking hate what this country has become. I hate the BBC for being so spineless and judgemental in the face of the modern day Mary Whitehouse brigade; who I wish would kindly go and exterminate themselves for the good of humanity. They do way more harm than good.
So, as the cloak of censorship and the grip of the thought police tightens further over this country; I bet the great and virtuous will be surprised when the politics of this country lurches further to the right in reaction to their Stalinist approach and their sanctimonious, humourless worldview. But then again, they never were a bright bunch - just the embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Sorry, rant over. But this is an embodiment of the way that society is going and it will create a backlash where actual racists will be able to thrive, thanks to the SJWs and their apologists.
But comparing black and mixed heritage people to monkeys is a well established trope of racists. As a keen football supporter he would have heard the monkey noises aimed at black players and seen the bananas thrown at them. He has no excuse. Nor do you in defending him.
If we were saying “he only meant to refer to a mixed race baby as a monkey for jokes” then sure, that’s wrongly defending him. Pointing out that there was no racial issue intended, which is bloody obvious to me, strikes me as trying to straighten this out, rather then defend the indefensible.
Drawing a parallel to banana throwing is ludicrous in that context.
As I said earlier I don't know if he is or isn't racist. Comparing a mixed parentage child to a monkey however is a racist trope that has been around for centuries. The reference to terrace racism was made because he has made his career partly on being a man of the people who takes part in mass entertainmants. At the Den I can't believe he didn't hear or see racism expressed through monkey noises and throwing bananas (monkey food) at black players. He chose to post this. He deserves the whirlwind he created.
Listen up everyone I think we all agree that racism is wrong. The only person who knows if Danny Baker is a racist or not is him. Throwing insults at one another over that prick is ridiculous.
Whoever's banging on about the "dictionary definition" of racism, have a word.
Racism is such a broad concept with so many manifestations that narrowing it down to a dictionary definition is reductive; simplistic; and stifles conversation around issues such as this (and it is an issue within racism).
Whoever's banging on about the "dictionary definition" of racism, have a word.
Racism is such a broad concept with so many manifestations that narrowing it down to a dictionary definition is reductive; simplistic; and stifles conversation around issues such as this (and it is an issue within racism).
Interviewed on his doorstep .. he had no idea who had just had a baby, just that there had been a royal birth .. he can join the @Karim_myBagheri Ostrich head in sand/man on the moon club ((:>)
I think he is an excellent broadcaster, but this tweeting event is monumentally stupid and inevitably leads to sanctions, how can it not?
I have discovered that facebook and twitter are part of the same multi national astonishingly rich company. They are rich because common sense indicates that nothing comes for free even if you don't pay them direct money. God knows why so much of modern discourse is carried out on these questionable platforms enriching already very rich companies. (What was that about paying tax?) I am not on either twitter or facebook, and the more time passes I feel more relieved. What is totally annoying is that so many others, individuals and organisations, assume we all have facebook and twitter. They are salespeople for the already incredibly rich aren't they? As a result there is a sense of alienation, even a weird disenfranchisement (as well as the relief I mentioned above) and a feeling of being out of the loop if you're not on those two platforms. I suppose as a vegetarian I'm used to swimming against the tide, but I see twitter and facebook as an undiluted diet of something like the MacDonalds of the intellect, communication, and online existence. This latest 'look at me' event is an example of the paucity of modern culture.
If the BBC put Alan Green on in his slot though I will despair.
They're not
I stand corrected. I always thought they were.
Maybe you’re thinking of Instagram, which is owned by Facebook.
Interviewed on his doorstep .. he had no idea who had just had a baby, just that there had been a royal birth .. he can join the @Karim_myBagheri Ostrich head in sand/man on the moon club ((:>)
Interviewed on his doorstep .. he had no idea who had just had a baby, just that there had been a royal birth .. he can join the @Karim_myBagheri Ostrich head in sand/man on the moon club ((:>)
It was a crazy mistake to make. It hard for many of us to fathom how someone with intelligence as DB undoubtedly has could make such a monumental crass cock up.
I happen to believe him when he says there was no intent whatsoever. There is nothing I’m aware of in his long public life to lead me to conclude his is racist
He is quirkily idiosyncratic with a penchant for the trivial and the absurd somewhat in the vein of Reeves and Mortimer lite.
So how did he come to make such a huge error of judgement . Well in my view it’s simple- He’s human and humans make big cock ups. I know because from time to time I do similar. I behave like the 50 year old professionals man I am for most of the time , but occasionally the mask slips and I revert to teenage lunacy
should he lose his job- in my view no. He has no previous , he took it down when the inference was brought to his attention and after being doorstepped apologised and made clear he accepted he was wrong to post it though there was no Racist intent
i fear for a world where one mistake , albeit a big one loses you a job . To quote the late , great JC “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”
I do not think Baker is the slightest bit racist. I don't like him but to be fair you could have hardly avoided him over the last 40 years if you share his interests in music, football and trivia. I cannot recall him even make a tiny generalisation to a race or nationality like many did 30+ years ago like Germans nicking the sunbeds or Italians being bad drivers etc. I know he is fan of Monty Python, Fawlty Towers and Only Fools and these programs contain some shocking racist pieces and some casual ones too. He does not or has ever himself done the same on TV or radio or in print as far as I know. If he had someone would have found it by now. However the post WAS racist intentionally or otherwise. To say if you associate monkeys with people of colour then you are the racist is utter rubbish. Our society does it through the idiots who make noises to black footballers etc. It is a so high profile problem that you'd have to have been living like a hermit for years to not be aware. Anyone of even limited intelligence knows of this kind of disgusting behaviour. It was not Bakers intention to be racist, I 100% believe that but it was so utterly stupid to not realise that it would be seen a racist. Some of the apologists for him have been beyond belief, his supposed fascination with monkeys dressed as humans is a really weak argument. Whether he should have been sacked for it I'm not sure but personally I'm glad he's off the airways, for now at least. I don't see how the BBC had any option. Remember Carol Thatcher on The One Show? They set a precedent with her after she described Jo-Wilfried Tsonga as a cuddly golliwog, and that was off air in the Green Room.
The post simply was not racist. Racism is about believing you or someone else is superior based upon race.
The picture was taking the piss out of posh people... Last time I checked posh wasn't a race.
My statement was that if you associated a chimp with a person of colour then you are racist.
The football 'fans' throwing bananas and making monkey noises are associating people of colour with chimps/monkeys... They are racist.
If you then continue to associate those things I have to say, I believe that makes you racist.
I think your definition of racism is a little simplistic. We know what Baker's intention was, as you say, to take the pee out of posh people. However what the post actually was was a picture of a little monkey dressed up as a human and described as the new royal baby who's mother is of mixed race. If you cannot see how that can be seen as racist, whatever your own interpretation, then there is little more I can add.
I think everyone understands how it can be seen as racist, including DB himself, which is why he removed it. But the point is, when he posted it, he was not thinking along these lines and never actually meant to cause offence. As soon as it was pointed out that it was offensive, he removed the picture and duly apologised. I'm not sure why people can't just accept it was an error, accept his apology and think no more of it.
Baker's fallen for the old "I can say and post what I like, because I'm a media liberal luvvie and so everyone will know that I can't possibly be racists / sexist / homophobic".
Reckon he'll turn up on the TalkSport midnight slot within 12 months
This sort of thing drives me mad. You could equally say that those calling this racist are racists themselves as they have themselves made the connection between a chimp and someone of mixed/black race in order to call it racist. Yet those who don't see that connection could be deemed as racist and supporting a racist tweet for saying they don't see anything wrong with it.
Comments
https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/09/racism-like-danny-bakers-tweet-is-usually-explained-away-im-glad-the-bbc-fired-him-9465905/
I don't like him but I have spoken up for him for NOT being a racist.
I quite like Danny Baker. The bits in his book about cancel struck a chord with some of my own experiences.
I guess all that makes me a racist?
Jesus Christ Dazzler......that’s the very point......it did cause offence and quite understandably so.
I was pretty offended myself and the whole point is, at worst, he didn’t give a fuck if it did or not or secondly didn’t think it would. He was wrong on both counts.
If I posted something like that about your family you’d be out and about looking for me to throw a right hander..........and who would blame you.
If and this is a big if he intended to cause offence through racism, burn the little bastard.
He types it out, reads it back to himself whilst saying, ‘would the Missus let me say this out loud’ before promptly deleting it.
Seems Mr Baker would have been wise to run this past his own Missus first.
Whatever he may or may not have meant by that tweet is completely immaterial. It’s open to interpretation which could lead to causing offence.
He’s long enough in the tooth to know better.
And it sounds like he knows why he was given the tin tack as a result.
Why some one are still wasting oxygen fighting over it is beyond me.
LLLBH.
Drawing a parallel to banana throwing is ludicrous in that context.
That's my contribution.
The reference to terrace racism was made because he has made his career partly on being a man of the people who takes part in mass entertainmants.
At the Den I can't believe he didn't hear or see racism expressed through monkey noises and throwing bananas (monkey food) at black players.
He chose to post this. He deserves the whirlwind he created.
The only person who knows if Danny Baker is a racist or not is him.
Throwing insults at one another over that prick is ridiculous.
Racism is such a broad concept with so many manifestations that narrowing it down to a dictionary definition is reductive; simplistic; and stifles conversation around issues such as this (and it is an issue within racism).
sorry.
I happen to believe him when he says there was no intent whatsoever. There is nothing I’m aware of in his long public life to lead me to conclude his is racist
He is quirkily idiosyncratic with a penchant for the trivial and the absurd somewhat in the vein of Reeves and Mortimer lite.
So how did he come to make such a huge error of judgement . Well in my view it’s simple- He’s human and humans make big cock ups. I know because from time to time I do similar. I behave like the 50 year old professionals man I am for most of the time , but occasionally the mask slips and I revert to teenage lunacy
should he lose his job- in my view no. He has no previous , he took it down when the inference was brought to his attention and after being doorstepped apologised and made clear he accepted he was wrong to post it though there was no Racist intent
i fear for a world where one mistake , albeit a big one loses you a job . To quote the late , great JC “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”
Reckon he'll turn up on the TalkSport midnight slot within 12 months