I'm a sweaty but having lived down here for the past 27 years whatever happens up there would have no effect on me what so ever but I have to agree with Off It in saying that it would be a disaster for Scotland hence I'm not for it. After my once a year pilgrimage up the road I find it quite entertaining trying to rid myself of my Scottish pound notes down here in the local pubs and shops but having to try and do that with a few euros would be a right royal pain in the arse. I'm more interested in who SCP is going to sign in the close season to bolster our attacking options to be honest.
Also there's something called the "Sewel Convention" under which the UK parliament doesn't interfere in matters relating only to Scotland unless they have the tacit approval of the Scottish Executive/parliament.
I do wonder sometimes, if Scotland do go independent, how would it affect the future of the rest of the U.K.?
I mean will Wales then want to go independent? and what about Northern Ireland? I mean things are already delicate enough there as it is, so will start the debate again about whether NI should be British or Irish, not that its ever ended, mind you. And if they go as well, the whole Falklands debate will start again. So it may well start the complete break up of the Union.
Also, as welshaddick said, it will more or less mean the end of Labour in England, and almost certain permanent tory rule. With all these possible side affects to think of, would it really be a good thing if Scotland went it alone?
I'm Scottish and think El Presidente Salmondo is a tosser. The whole voting system is a nonsense. 16 year olds can vote presumably because the SNP think they are more gullible towards the anti-English crap. I was born in and lived for 21 years in Scotland before moving to England 27 years ago i.e. just under half my life. I don't get a vote. If you have no Scottish connection at all but moved there to live this week you will get a vote. Bonkers.
I'm Scottish and think El Presidente Salmondo is a tosser. The whole voting system is a nonsense. 16 year olds can vote presumably because the SNP think they are more gullible towards the anti-English crap. I was born in and lived for 21 years in Scotland before moving to England 27 years ago i.e. just under half my life. I don't get a vote. If you have no Scottish connection at all but moved there to live this week you will get a vote. Bonkers.
So if you currently live in England (I believe more Scots live in England than they do in Scotland) and you've had a postal vote for your constituency 'back home' for years, do you get to vote in the independance vote or not?
I'm very much a non Scot but I would like to see how much Alex's planned break up will cost all of us. Is he planning to take on a share of the national debt, will they have a health service, armed forces, a coast guard, what currency will they use, the list is endless. If hes planning it all on whiskey and oil I dont think the Scots have a long term future. But if thats the course the people want to take its up to them.
I tell you one thing, if they get independence, they won't need an army. The number of Glaswegian piss artists I've met who claim membership of the SAS means they've got a standing army of thousands of highly-trained, down-on-their-luck veterans of combat in war zones to protect them from the hordes of Mordor if necessary.
Salmond knows he is on a loser, that is why he has waited until the end of his tenure to have the referendum. Scots are not daft, they may spout all the William Wallace crap in the pub, but they are "canny" enough to know where the strengths lie.
I tell you one thing, if they get independence, they won't need an army. The number of Glaswegian piss artists I've met who claim membership of the SAS means they've got a standing army of thousands of highly-trained, down-on-their-luck veterans of combat in war zones to protect them from the hordes of Mordor if necessary.
We are better together ----however when the Welsh and the Scots go their own way we can get back to the real issue the power house that is England and Labour wont get a look in------happy days.
Alex Salmond is a very clever politician its very very difficult to deflect out and out racism an dress it up as Nationalism as well as he does.
We are better together ----however when the Welsh and the Scots go their own way we can get back to the real issue the power house that is England and Labour wont get a look in------happy days.
Alex Salmond is a very clever politician its very very difficult to deflect out and out racism an dress it up as Nationalism as well as he does.
Think it's naive to think that the political map of England won't change if the Scots and Welsh were to leave the Union. The constituencies would need to be changed to better reflect voting otherwise as stated it would effectively produce a one party state which would not be tolerated by the electorate. A bonus spin off might be radical reform of an English parliament and a golden opportunity to reduce the ridiculous number of MP's we currently have. For what it's worth I doubt the Scots will be daft enough to vote for independence. Should that happen where would that leave Alex Salmond and the SNP whose raison d'être is called into question. I suspect that will produce a swing back to traditional Scottish support for the Labour Party north of the border.
I'm pretty sure Scotland will only be getting independence from us should they vote yes. They'll just be exchanging their masters from Westminster to Brussels.
Think it's naive to think that the political map of England won't change if the Scots and Welsh were to leave the Union. The constituencies would need to be changed to better reflect voting otherwise as stated it would effectively produce a one party state which would not be tolerated by the electorate. A bonus spin off might be radical reform of an English parliament and a golden opportunity to reduce the ridiculous number of MP's we currently have. For what it's worth I doubt the Scots will be daft enough to vote for independence. Should that happen where would that leave Alex Salmond and the SNP whose raison d'être is called into question. I suspect that will produce a swing back to traditional Scottish support for the Labour Party north of the border.
The rise of the SNP is, IMHO, just part of a general increase in nationalism across Europe. It has happened before, in times of economic hardship, when people tend to look for scapegoats for their own plight - and that means people of different colour, religion (think of the jews in 1930s Germany) and nationality ("if it wasn't for all the immigrants/Poles/Bulgarians etc"). The worrying thing is when politicians seek to mobilise such feelings and gain power through them. Nationalist politicians have a habit of saying whatever they think will appeal most to the masses, gain a foothold, then change the rules in their favour (like SNP reducing the voting age to 16 so they can sweep up more ill-informed but nationalistic people) - then bring out the more extreme policies when they get real power.
Scottish independence would be a disaster for the UK and especially for Scotland, but Salmon and his cronies aren't too concerned about that - it is power they want, and all the trappings of power that come with it.
Up here at the moment staying indefinitely at my brothers place. I struggle to understand how these wonderful people could ever be so stupid as to vote for independence. But there you go, IF they do I fear a "shake out" for both England and Scotland that will be remembered for generations to come.
the thing about scottish independence is the same as about whether the uk withdraws from the eu. geographically we are connected. scotland being independent or uk out of europe will not mean that we float half way round the world and start a new life. we will still be neighbours and will have deal with what that means, still trade, still be in security and defence agreements, still be linked together economically, and many other things. both salmond and forage and their followers live in an imaginary world where we will be truly independent. we will all still have to have shared legislation, much like we do now, to survive. and forage argument about trading around the world, we already do. that's why we have bits of american and chinese legislation (for example) built into ours.
the reality is if scotland go independent, or uk leave eu will mean that all we are doing is putting the uk at the bottom of the pile when it comes to making decisions, but whatever decisions are made we will have to abide by.
all this is based around the view that there is an 'us and them' view. in my mind there is only 'us' and we should work together.
Well said henrythecat, I completely agree. Currently we have a strong influence on the rules when it comes to trading with the EU. We'll still have to abide by the rules if we leave, but we won't have a say. If Scotland leaves the UK but stays in the EU, it'll have a much smaller voice to influence decisions in its favour.
Comments
I ain't Scots either, but I think Salmond is a string.
After my once a year pilgrimage up the road I find it quite entertaining trying to rid myself of my Scottish pound notes down here in the local pubs and shops but having to try and do that with a few euros would be a right royal pain in the arse.
I'm more interested in who SCP is going to sign in the close season to bolster our attacking options to be honest.
Thought not!
Plus the government wants Scotland to stay and doesn't trust the English people to vote with their heads.
I mean will Wales then want to go independent? and what about Northern Ireland? I mean things are already delicate enough there as it is, so will start the debate again about whether NI should be British or Irish, not that its ever ended, mind you.
And if they go as well, the whole Falklands debate will start again. So it may well start the complete break up of the Union.
Also, as welshaddick said, it will more or less mean the end of Labour in England, and almost certain permanent tory rule.
With all these possible side affects to think of, would it really be a good thing if Scotland went it alone?
People that live within the borders of Scotland? People born in Scotland? People of 'Scottish heritage'?
Who exactly gets to vote in this matter?
The whole independance vote is going to turn out to be a farce - particularly if the allow 16 year olds to vote.
Is he planning to take on a share of the national debt, will they have a health service, armed forces, a coast guard, what currency will they use, the list is endless.
If hes planning it all on whiskey and oil I dont think the Scots have a long term future. But if thats the course the people want to take its up to them.
Alex Salmond is a very clever politician its very very difficult to deflect out and out racism an dress it up as Nationalism as well as he does.
Scottish independence would be a disaster for the UK and especially for Scotland, but Salmon and his cronies aren't too concerned about that - it is power they want, and all the trappings of power that come with it.
the reality is if scotland go independent, or uk leave eu will mean that all we are doing is putting the uk at the bottom of the pile when it comes to making decisions, but whatever decisions are made we will have to abide by.
all this is based around the view that there is an 'us and them' view. in my mind there is only 'us' and we should work together.