Anti- semitism is still thriving on Charlton life I see.
Who is being anti-semitic? I don't see any anti-semitism on this thread.
Care to explain or is it just easier to put words in the mouths of other people? If so aren't you falling into the trap of being bigoted yourself by assuming that is what other people meant?
Melanie Phillips, if some readers are unaware, is a Jew
What of it? Being Jewish does not give you an excuse to call for another nation to be attacked.
Anti- semitism is still thriving on Charlton life I see.
Who is being anti-semitic? I don't see any anti-semitism on this thread.
Care to explain or is it just easier to put words in the mouths of other people? If so aren't you falling into the trap of being bigoted yourself by assuming that is what other people meant?
Melanie Phillips, if some readers are unaware, is a Jew
What of it? Being Jewish does not give you an excuse to call for another nation to be attacked.
Anti- semitism is still thriving on Charlton Life I see. No surprise though given the number of the Great and Good of Charlton Life who worship at the altar of the known anti semite Ken Livingstone.
Melanie Phillips, if some readers are unaware, is a Jew. Various Iranian politicians have threatened to "blow Israel out of existence" or words to that effect. Indeed two terrorist organisations, Hamas and Hezbollah (?spelling), regularly slaughter innocent Jews.
She may not have expressed herself terribly well on the programme but it is a sorry state of affairs if one is denounced as a "bigot" (as posters above have done) for expressing justifiable fears.
Mind you, come to think of it, Gordon Brown denounced a woman as a "bigot" because she questioned Labour's immigration policy.
It must be the Socialist way.
Utterly ridiculous assumption, for which you should be ashamed and embarrassed. Most people on this forum whould be unaware of Ms Phillips religion or that of any of the other panelists.
Anti-semitism has been practised by by groups across the policital spectrum, it is ludicrous to attempt attribute it as a problem solely of the left or the right.
So saying you disagree with her views makes you an anti semite?
That's ******* nuts, even by your standards, Len.
No but calling her a Zionist crank and a bigot does.
There is a certain irony here because if I was a gambling man I would put my house on those criticising me now being in the vanguard of criticising me as racist if I was to hypothetically comment on the ratio of Islamic terrorists or black muggers.
You are aware that there is a big difference between being anti-zionist and being anti-semitic?
They are two separate things.
A zionist is someone who supports the right of Israel to annex and colonise the remaining land in the West Bank/Gaza Strip that it does not already control.
An anti-semite is someone who for whatever reason dislikes semitic people.
You can be opposed to Zionism, that is be opposed to Israel's colonisation of land outside the borders granted to it by the UN in 1948 and still not be anti-semitic.
Now we've laid that to rest, what examples of proper anti-semitism are there on Charlton Life?
You are aware that there is a big difference between being anti-zionist and being anti-semitic?
They are two separate things.
A zionist is someone who supports the right of Israel to annex and colonise the remaining land in the West Bank/Gaza Strip that it does not already control.
An anti-semite is someone who for whatever reason dislikes semitic people.
You can be opposed to Zionism, that is be opposed to Israel's colonisation of land outside the borders granted to it by the UN in 1948 and still not be anti-semitic.
Now we've laid that to rest, what examples of proper anti-semitism are there on Charlton Life?
So saying you disagree with her views makes you an anti semite?
That's ******* nuts, even by your standards, Len.
No but calling her a Zionist crank and a bigot does.
There is a certain irony here because if I was a gambling man I would put my house on those criticising me now being in the vanguard of criticising me as racist if I was to hypothetically comment on the ratio of Islamic terrorists or black muggers.
It's the same thing!
One comment, dealt with by BFR above is hardly thriving is it.
As you suggest, being critical of Isalamic terrorists is not anti-Islamic, why is this situation any different.
So saying you disagree with her views makes you an anti semite?
That's ******* nuts, even by your standards, Len.
No but calling her a Zionist crank and a bigot does.
There is a certain irony here because if I was a gambling man I would put my house on those criticising me now being in the vanguard of criticising me as racist if I was to hypothetically comment on the ratio of Islamic terrorists or black muggers.
It's the same thing!
One comment, dealt with by BFR above is hardly thriving is it.
As you suggest, being critical of Isalamic terrorists is not anti-Islamic, why is this situation any different.
That was my question.
Anyway in my opinion Melanie Phillips is entitled to her opinion without being denounced as a Zionist crank or bigot.
I was only half watching the programme but I did not hear her say anything about invading Iran.
What she did do was point out the danger of Iran and its hatred of Israel.
I guess it suits certain agendas to misrepresent that as let's invade Iran though.
So saying you disagree with her views makes you an anti semite?
That's ******* nuts, even by your standards, Len.
No but calling her a Zionist crank and a bigot does.
There is a certain irony here because if I was a gambling man I would put my house on those criticising me now being in the vanguard of criticising me as racist if I was to hypothetically comment on the ratio of Islamic terrorists or black muggers.
It's the same thing!
One comment, dealt with by BFR above is hardly thriving is it.
As you suggest, being critical of Isalamic terrorists is not anti-Islamic, why is this situation any different.
That was my question.
I didn't see a question there, you posted a statement; Anti- semitism is still thriving on Charlton Life I see. I fail to see how you can justify that comment.
So saying you disagree with her views makes you an anti semite?
That's ******* nuts, even by your standards, Len.
No but calling her a Zionist crank and a bigot does.
There is a certain irony here because if I was a gambling man I would put my house on those criticising me now being in the vanguard of criticising me as racist if I was to hypothetically comment on the ratio of Islamic terrorists or black muggers.
It's the same thing!
I didn't know she was Jewish. I still think she's a bigot. Even if you exclude all her views on Iran, Israel and so on she still has disgusting bigoted views on, for example, homosexuality.
I ask for examples of ant-semitism and I get - as predicted - bluster from you.
As I explained, opposing Israel's colonisation of Palestinian land outside of the UN allocated borders is not an example anti-semitism, no matter how hard you want it to be. If it were a large swathe of the Israeli population (and even many jewish people outside Israel) who oppose this policy would be anti-semitic. There are even some very orthodox Jews who are opposed to this land grab.
Now...show me some actual anti-semitism on this site...
Because a woman was rightly mocked for actually believing that Iranian leaders want to end the world because they want to bring down the messiah, suddenly Charlton Life is anti-Semitic now?
I ask for examples of ant-semitism and I get - as predicted - bluster from you.
As I explained, opposing Israel's colonisation of Palestinian land outside of the UN allocated borders is not an example anti-semitism, no matter how hard you want it to be. If it were a large swathe of the Israeli population (and even many jewish people outside Israel) who oppose this policy would be anti-semitic. There are even some very orthodox Jews who are opposed to this land grab.
Now...show me some actual anti-semitism on this site...
Yes semantics.
All part of devaluing human life for political ends.
If Jews are referred to as zionists it makes their murder by terrorist groups more politically acceptable.
We can then come up with the charade "I'm not anti- semitic but" which is something the left throw disparagingly at those who question immigration policies "I'm not racist but"
Abortion is another example of the same thing. Those in favour never refer to removing babies but removing foetuses. It somehow makes it more palatable and justifiable in their eyes.
Brand spent the whole show slagging off bankers etc, but when it was suggested that he could pay a bit more tax on his massive income, he declined to do so. The extra revenue could have been spent on aid for druggies. That is the sort of thing that was a bigoted self parody.
Nope, what he actually said was
RB: "So unless there are significant changes over where we get our revenue from, and I might suggest people that have got loads and loads of money, people that are in the top tax bracket..." Someone from the audience: "Like you" RB: "Yeah, like me mate. I should pay a bit more tax. I'm happy to pay tax because listen..." Boris: "I'm sure the Government would accept a voluntary contribution" Audience laughs RB: "If I was going to give money to people, I tell you what, if I was going to voluntarily hand over my money it would not be to the Tory Government, man, because I don't trust them people. I don't trust any of them because they exist solely to protect the interests of the rich and powerful. They're not there for you, you know that in your hearts"
I ask for examples of ant-semitism and I get - as predicted - bluster from you.
As I explained, opposing Israel's colonisation of Palestinian land outside of the UN allocated borders is not an example anti-semitism, no matter how hard you want it to be. If it were a large swathe of the Israeli population (and even many jewish people outside Israel) who oppose this policy would be anti-semitic. There are even some very orthodox Jews who are opposed to this land grab.
Now...show me some actual anti-semitism on this site...
He can't, that's why he's now dismissing responses to his ridiculous claim that anti-semitism is "thriving" on Charlton Life as "semantics".
Trying to play the anti-semitism card isn't just clearly wrong, it's dangerous as it will detract from real cases of anti-semitism. Think about what your saying and its impact when commenting on a topic as sensitive as this Len.
Can't stand Melanie Phillips. She's the closest we have in Britain to the right-wing crazies in the States.
Her disgusting anti-scientific campaign against the MMR vaccine caused a great deal of suffering. She is as culpable as Wakefield for that as far as I'm concerned. She is more generally a bigot and a bully.
I don't care for the views of Rio Ferdinand, so you can add racism to the thriving Charlton Life poo pile !
That's fine.
Nowhere have I said it is not right to disagree with Melanie Phillips.
However, in my opinion, calling her a Zionist Crank when she is a Jew and bigot when she is expressing views pertinent to Jews crosses a line just as if would you were to refer to Mr Ferdinand's colour whilst expressing your dislike of his views.
There are those on here who love to misrepresent what is said though.
I don't care for the views of Rio Ferdinand, so you can add racism to the thriving Charlton Life poo pile !
That's fine.
Nowhere have I said it is not right to disagree with Melanie Phillips.
However, in my opinion, calling her a Zionist Crank when she is a Jew and bigot when she is expressing views pertinent to Jews crosses a line just as if would you were to refer to Mr Ferdinand's colour whilst expressing your dislike of his views.
There are those on here who love to misrepresent what is said though.
She stated that an entire culture of people (Shia Muslims) want to destroy the world and that Iran should be destroyed. Is that not slightly bigoted in your eyes?
Yes some people hide their anti-Jewish bigotry (technically Arabs and Jews are both Semites) behind the term "Zionist" just as other racists use "code" words but if you thought that was what Nolly was doing that call him out on it, don't then decide that anti-Jewish discrimination is "thriving" on the basis of one comment.
Challenge it by all means, take a different view but point the finger at the individual not the group. That way lies prejudice.
I don't care for the views of Rio Ferdinand, so you can add racism to the thriving Charlton Life poo pile !
That's fine.
Nowhere have I said it is not right to disagree with Melanie Phillips.
However, in my opinion, calling her a Zionist Crank when she is a Jew and bigot when she is expressing views pertinent to Jews crosses a line just as if would you were to refer to Mr Ferdinand's colour whilst expressing your dislike of his views.
There are those on here who love to misrepresent what is said though.
But wasn't it explained to you, quite eloquently that there is a difference between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism?
Is it perhaps possible that, prior to that explanation you yourself didn't understand this difference so misinterpreted the "Zionist crank" as anti-Semitic. Now that's been proven incorrect you can't admit you were wrong and are trying to justify your original position which is making you look ridiculous.
Yes some people hide their anti-Jewish bigotry (technically Arabs and Jews are both Semites) behind the term "Zionist" just as other racists use "code" words but if you thought that was what Nolly was doing that call him out on it, don't then decide that anti-Jewish discrimination is "thriving" on the basis of one comment.
Challenge it by all means, take a different view but point the finger at the individual not the group. That way lies prejudice.
Nolly said Zionist crank yes but plenty of others said bigot so, in my opinion, I felt it justifiable to make a group reference.
Comments
It's not a RIP thread where a circumspect attitude is perfectly justified as respectful good manners.
Who is being anti-semitic? I don't see any anti-semitism on this thread.
Care to explain or is it just easier to put words in the mouths of other people? If so aren't you falling into the trap of being bigoted yourself by assuming that is what other people meant?
Melanie Phillips, if some readers are unaware, is a Jew
What of it? Being Jewish does not give you an excuse to call for another nation to be attacked.
Anti-semitism has been practised by by groups across the policital spectrum, it is ludicrous to attempt attribute it as a problem solely of the left or the right.
Yes I did - it was pretty obvious that I did, as i quoted something out of it. Now please point out where there is anti-semitism on Charlton life.
Get to it - it should be easy for you to provide the proof since you are making the accusation.
No more blustering....
That's ******* nuts, even by your standards, Len.
There is a certain irony here because if I was a gambling man I would put my house on those criticising me now being in the vanguard of criticising me as racist if I was to hypothetically comment on the ratio of Islamic terrorists or black muggers.
It's the same thing!
They are two separate things.
A zionist is someone who supports the right of Israel to annex and colonise the remaining land in the West Bank/Gaza Strip that it does not already control.
An anti-semite is someone who for whatever reason dislikes semitic people.
You can be opposed to Zionism, that is be opposed to Israel's colonisation of land outside the borders granted to it by the UN in 1948 and still not be anti-semitic.
Now we've laid that to rest, what examples of proper anti-semitism are there on Charlton Life?
As you suggest, being critical of Isalamic terrorists is not anti-Islamic, why is this situation any different.
Anyway in my opinion Melanie Phillips is entitled to her opinion without being denounced as a Zionist crank or bigot.
I was only half watching the programme but I did not hear her say anything about invading Iran.
What she did do was point out the danger of Iran and its hatred of Israel.
I guess it suits certain agendas to misrepresent that as let's invade Iran though.
Oh, and I'm not anti-semitic either.
I ask for examples of ant-semitism and I get - as predicted - bluster from you.
As I explained, opposing Israel's colonisation of Palestinian land outside of the UN allocated borders is not an example anti-semitism, no matter how hard you want it to be. If it were a large swathe of the Israeli population (and even many jewish people outside Israel) who oppose this policy would be anti-semitic. There are even some very orthodox Jews who are opposed to this land grab.
Now...show me some actual anti-semitism on this site...
All part of devaluing human life for political ends.
If Jews are referred to as zionists it makes their murder by terrorist groups more politically acceptable.
We can then come up with the charade "I'm not anti- semitic but" which is something the left throw disparagingly at those who question immigration policies "I'm not racist but"
Abortion is another example of the same thing. Those in favour never refer to removing babies but removing foetuses. It somehow makes it more palatable and justifiable in their eyes.
So yes semantics.
In my opinion.
RB: "So unless there are significant changes over where we get our revenue from, and I might suggest people that have got loads and loads of money, people that are in the top tax bracket..."
Someone from the audience: "Like you"
RB: "Yeah, like me mate. I should pay a bit more tax. I'm happy to pay tax because listen..."
Boris: "I'm sure the Government would accept a voluntary contribution"
Audience laughs
RB: "If I was going to give money to people, I tell you what, if I was going to voluntarily hand over my money it would not be to the Tory Government, man, because I don't trust them people. I don't trust any of them because they exist solely to protect the interests of the rich and powerful. They're not there for you, you know that in your hearts"
Trying to play the anti-semitism card isn't just clearly wrong, it's dangerous as it will detract from real cases of anti-semitism. Think about what your saying and its impact when commenting on a topic as sensitive as this Len.
I don't care for the views of Rio Ferdinand, so you can add racism to the thriving Charlton Life poo pile !
Her disgusting anti-scientific campaign against the MMR vaccine caused a great deal of suffering. She is as culpable as Wakefield for that as far as I'm concerned. She is more generally a bigot and a bully.
Nowhere have I said it is not right to disagree with Melanie Phillips.
However, in my opinion, calling her a Zionist Crank when she is a Jew and bigot when she is expressing views pertinent to Jews crosses a line just as if would you were to refer to Mr Ferdinand's colour whilst expressing your dislike of his views.
There are those on here who love to misrepresent what is said though.
Yes some people hide their anti-Jewish bigotry (technically Arabs and Jews are both Semites) behind the term "Zionist" just as other racists use "code" words but if you thought that was what Nolly was doing that call him out on it, don't then decide that anti-Jewish discrimination is "thriving" on the basis of one comment.
Challenge it by all means, take a different view but point the finger at the individual not the group. That way lies prejudice.
Is it perhaps possible that, prior to that explanation you yourself didn't understand this difference so misinterpreted the "Zionist crank" as anti-Semitic. Now that's been proven incorrect you can't admit you were wrong and are trying to justify your original position which is making you look ridiculous.