My Great Grandfather - a Whistable man - (I am descended from the locally famous Divers on that side of my family) volunteered and joined the Buffs - Saw action in the Somme from July 2nd and was wounded on Oct 12th (in one of several offensives that comprised the battle ). Returned to France spring 1917 and fought through the third battle of Ypres, including Passchendale. The following summer crossed the Hindeburg line and was killed on October 28th 1918 two days before his unit effectively saw no more action.
His family found out a few hours after the armistice was declared.
In 2006 I located and visited the cemetery and in 2007 took my late grandfather for his only visit to his fathers grave - whilst there he carefully buried a pebble from Whistable beach.
Just checked the copies of records and he died on the 23 rd not 28th.
Do remember it was a pig of a place to find - Almost gave up and then found it at the last moment - Seem to recall that the dates seem to be either 1914 or 1918. There were small cemeteries dotted across the area.
When i went with my Grandfather we drove down through Belgium and spent the weekend in the Ardennes then drove into France - Always amazes me that the Germans managed to attack through there at both ends of WW2!
My Grandfather, Thomas Murphy was at the Somme. He has a colourful service life, part of the Munster Fusiliers, had in one guise or another been with Kitchener in the Sudan or somewhere, absconded and then re enlisted in Belfast as Thomas Sullivan and was at the Somme. A schizopherenic military life, two regiments when Ireland was part of Britain, a professional soldier in his younger days, yet after the Great War, during the Irish struggle for independence he was a Republican, and famously helped a Republican activist escape the Black and Tans at Mallow station risking his life there. After that he raised chickens in rural Cork, and liked a pint.
Just looked online and didn't realise that the village of Montay is very close to Le Cateau - Which I guess explains the 1914 graves.
Been reading various books on WW1 recently including those of Peter Hart - Just finished "Fire and movement" and am halfway through his book on the Somme - Both of which are very good imo.
Re Devil wood I believe the Buffs were involved in that encounter - Which if Peter Hart is to be believed was a pretty nasty affair.
Just to the NW of Le Cateau - however, the Cemetery wasn't constructed until October 1918 and the dead from six other cemeteries were re-buried there. Pretty sure all headstones are from 1918 there though.
The South African memorial and museum at Longueval was most interesting, they really went through hell in Delville wood (aka Devil Wood).
You were about 400 yards away from Caterpillar Valley and our own Fred Chick then!
That's right, we saw loads of things but really could have spent another day driving around....however after doing pretty much the same kind of thing at Verdun a few days earlier we both felt that we had seen enough (for the time being) of WW1 battlefields, memorials, museums etc....there is only so much info you can take in but we both really enjoyed the experience. Last year we went to Vimy Ridge and also went to the Normandy beaches...really facinating places.
Just to the NW of Le Cateau - however, the Cemetery wasn't constructed until October 1918 and the dead from six other cemeteries were re-buried there. Pretty sure all headstones are from 1918 there though.
You could well be right - Did drive around three or four other sites before we found it and scoured these for his grave. So probably remember them.
I have only recently started reading around WW1 so my understanding has changed considerably over the last year - Before like so many, my opinion was a Blackadder type view and memories of my Grandfathers absolute anger at being denied his Dad.- He told us of his childhood experices on armistice days, which sounded understandably grim affairs.
For me it brings alive that conflict to identify with one combatant on a more personal level and to think that everyone has a pretty similar story to tell. And to reflect upon their experiences and sacrifice. Here I am at nearly fifty having lived my life in relative peace withou having to fight anyone and it is really all down to them and their children. Humbling.
I have to say however that I find reading about the whole war strangely, and disturbingly compelling,
Just finished reading The Missing of the Somme by Geoff Dyer - a very interesting and moving book. Covers the aftermath of the war in terms of how it was commemorated - intertwined with the authors visit to the battlefields a few years ago. Has led me on to The Challenge of the Dead by Stephen Graham who visits the former battlefield 2 years after the war ends.
Just finished reading The Missing of the Somme by Geoff Dyer - a very interesting and moving book. Covers the aftermath of the war in terms of how it was commemorated - intertwined with the authors visit to the battlefields a few years ago. Has led me on to The Challenge of the Dead by Stephen Graham who visits the former battlefield 2 years after the war ends.
Will have a look at those - Sound interesting.
Read halfway through the Peter Hart Somme book and then decided I need more context - So I read his book about the first six months of the war and am now reading 1915 - The death of innocence - Lyn Macdonald - quite an old book now - there seems less published about 1915 general for some reason. Worked backwards from the Rise and Fall of the Third riech to WW1 .Then read four general books about WW1 ( including the Peter Hart one)
Clearly there are some lifers who are very clued up about WW1 - Any other reading suggestions ?
The best single volume work is David Stephenson's 1914-18 For more anecdotal context Lyn's books are a really good introduction, Martin Middlebrook writes well on the Somme and the Spring Offensive of 1918. Jon Nicholls 'Cheerful Sacrifice' is still the best book on the Battle of Arras when you get to 1917.
I was brought up on John Terraine, John Bourne, Gary Sheffield & Peter Simkins so I guess that makes me a revisionist, I would argue that I and almost every military historian these days are 'revertists' as we are reaching the same conclusion that the generation that fought the war came to before the 'revisionism' came in the 20's on the back of the Great Depression and the rise of the very talented War Poets.
Peter Hart works for me so I am pleased he appears to have ignited a connection to the Great War, it was such an incredible moment in our history and culture that it deserves the lifetime of study many of us have undertaken to get a clearer picture of the war and as you mentioned watching Blackadder, as brilliant as it is should be treated with caution.
I have 4,000 books here in my study (tools of the trade) and most historians agree that you need 6 foot of shelving a year as you grow into the subject, good luck!
The best single volume work is David Stephenson's 1914-18 For more anecdotal context Lyn's books are a really good introduction, Martin Middlebrook writes well on the Somme and the Spring Offensive of 1918. Jon Nicholls 'Cheerful Sacrifice' is still the best book on the Battle of Arras when you get to 1917.
I was brought up on John Terraine, John Bourne, Gary Sheffield & Peter Simkins so I guess that makes me a revisionist, I would argue that I and almost every military historian these days are 'revertists' as we are reaching the same conclusion that the generation that fought the war came to before the 'revisionism' came in the 20's on the back of the Great Depression and the rise of the very talented War Poets.
Peter Hart works for me so I am pleased he appears to have ignited a connection to the Great War, it was such an incredible moment in our history and culture that it deserves the lifetime of study many of us have undertaken to get a clearer picture of the war and as you mentioned watching Blackadder, as brilliant as it is should be treated with caution.
I have 4,000 books here in my study (tools of the trade) and most historians agree that you need 6 foot of shelving a year as you grow into the subject, good luck!
Clive
It gets addictive - I've just had to buy another book cabinet as I'm running out of room - though nowhere near to Clive's numbers.
Peter Hart's book on The Somme is brilliant and my copy is well thumbed through - though a promised one of his famous hats is still awaited.
As Clive says, Martin Middlebrook's First Day of The Somme is fascinating, but there was so much more to this battle than just the first day. Malcolm Brown's Book of the Somme is also a good read.
Getting into individual accounts and experiences of The Battle, also gives you an insight into how the average Tommy felt - a good compilation is E P F Lynch's Somme Mud. There are dozens of these that can be found - but beware, every old bookshop you pass will find you losing a couple of hours searching for rare volumes and walking away a few bob lighter!
The best single volume work is David Stephenson's 1914-18 For more anecdotal context Lyn's books are a really good introduction, Martin Middlebrook writes well on the Somme and the Spring Offensive of 1918. Jon Nicholls 'Cheerful Sacrifice' is still the best book on the Battle of Arras when you get to 1917.
I was brought up on John Terraine, John Bourne, Gary Sheffield & Peter Simkins so I guess that makes me a revisionist, I would argue that I and almost every military historian these days are 'revertists' as we are reaching the same conclusion that the generation that fought the war came to before the 'revisionism' came in the 20's on the back of the Great Depression and the rise of the very talented War Poets.
Peter Hart works for me so I am pleased he appears to have ignited a connection to the Great War, it was such an incredible moment in our history and culture that it deserves the lifetime of study many of us have undertaken to get a clearer picture of the war and as you mentioned watching Blackadder, as brilliant as it is should be treated with caution.
I have 4,000 books here in my study (tools of the trade) and most historians agree that you need 6 foot of shelving a year as you grow into the subject, good luck!
Clive
It gets addictive - I've just had to buy another book cabinet as I'm running out of room - though nowhere near to Clive's numbers.
Peter Hart's book on The Somme is brilliant and my copy is well thumbed through - though a promised one of his famous hats is still awaited.
As Clive says, Martin Middlebrook's First Day of The Somme is fascinating, but there was so much more to this battle than just the first day. Malcolm Brown's Book of the Somme is also a good read.
Getting into individual accounts and experiences of The Battle, also gives you an insight into how the average Tommy felt - a good compilation is E P F Lynch's Somme Mud. There are dozens of these that can be found - but beware, every old bookshop you pass will find you losing a couple of hours searching for rare volumes and walking away a few bob lighter!
Thank you both for your suggestions - That list should keep me going for a while!
Comments
His family found out a few hours after the armistice was declared.
In 2006 I located and visited the cemetery and in 2007 took my late grandfather for his only visit to his fathers grave - whilst there he carefully buried a pebble from Whistable beach.
Will be visiting again on October 23rd 2018.
Just checked the copies of records and he died on the 23 rd not 28th.
Do remember it was a pig of a place to find - Almost gave up and then found it at the last moment - Seem to recall that the dates seem to be either 1914 or 1918. There were small cemeteries dotted across the area.
When i went with my Grandfather we drove down through Belgium and spent the weekend in the Ardennes then drove into France - Always amazes me that the Germans managed to attack through there at both ends of WW2!
A schizopherenic military life, two regiments when Ireland was part of Britain, a professional soldier in his younger days, yet after the Great War, during the Irish struggle for independence he was a Republican, and famously helped a Republican activist escape the Black and Tans at Mallow station risking his life there.
After that he raised chickens in rural Cork, and liked a pint.
Been reading various books on WW1 recently including those of Peter Hart - Just finished "Fire and movement" and am halfway through his book on the Somme - Both of which are very good imo.
Re Devil wood I believe the Buffs were involved in that encounter - Which if Peter Hart is to be believed was a pretty nasty affair.
For me it brings alive that conflict to identify with one combatant on a more personal level and to think that everyone has a pretty similar story to tell. And to reflect upon their experiences and sacrifice. Here I am at nearly fifty having lived my life in relative peace withou having to fight anyone and it is really all down to them and their children. Humbling.
I have to say however that I find reading about the whole war strangely, and disturbingly compelling,
Read halfway through the Peter Hart Somme book and then decided I need more context - So I read his book about the first six months of the war and am now reading 1915 - The death of innocence - Lyn Macdonald - quite an old book now - there seems less published about 1915 general for some reason. Worked backwards from the Rise and Fall of the Third riech to WW1 .Then read four general books about WW1 ( including the Peter Hart one)
Clearly there are some lifers who are very clued up about WW1 - Any other reading suggestions ?
Nice to read your posts,
The best single volume work is David Stephenson's 1914-18
For more anecdotal context Lyn's books are a really good introduction, Martin Middlebrook writes well on the Somme and the Spring Offensive of 1918. Jon Nicholls 'Cheerful Sacrifice' is still the best book on the Battle of Arras when you get to 1917.
I was brought up on John Terraine, John Bourne, Gary Sheffield & Peter Simkins so I guess that makes me a revisionist, I would argue that I and almost every military historian these days are 'revertists' as we are reaching the same conclusion that the generation that fought the war came to before the 'revisionism' came in the 20's on the back of the Great Depression and the rise of the very talented War Poets.
Peter Hart works for me so I am pleased he appears to have ignited a connection to the Great War, it was such an incredible moment in our history and culture that it deserves the lifetime of study many of us have undertaken to get a clearer picture of the war and as you mentioned watching Blackadder, as brilliant as it is should be treated with caution.
I have 4,000 books here in my study (tools of the trade) and most historians agree that you need 6 foot of shelving a year as you grow into the subject, good luck!
Clive
Peter Hart's book on The Somme is brilliant and my copy is well thumbed through - though a promised one of his famous hats is still awaited.
As Clive says, Martin Middlebrook's First Day of The Somme is fascinating, but there was so much more to this battle than just the first day. Malcolm Brown's Book of the Somme is also a good read.
Getting into individual accounts and experiences of The Battle, also gives you an insight into how the average Tommy felt - a good compilation is E P F Lynch's Somme Mud. There are dozens of these that can be found - but beware, every old bookshop you pass will find you losing a couple of hours searching for rare volumes and walking away a few bob lighter!