So what would you have done instead - bearing in mind that the system prior to "Obamacare" left around 25m Americans uninsured and a further 50m or so under-insured. The principle reason why most were uninsured was because they either couldn't afford healthcare or were denied it due to "pre-existing conditions".
"Obamacare" ignores the main reason healthcare became so expensive, "defensive medicine". Doctors malpractice insurance became unaffordable due to frivolous lawsuits. Any doctor's visit , for the most minor symptom, or even a routine check-up ends up with a string of specialist visits as the original doc doesn't want to be accused of missing something. The specialist might have a string of other specialists he wants to send you to as well because he doesn't want to be accused of missing something. Many of these lawsuits are "settled", as it's more expensive to defend them. The first thing that should have been addressed in Obamacare was "tort reform", make the loser pay the legal expenses of the winner, as is usual in England. I was one of those denied health insurance due to a pre-existing condition, actually one of the main reasons I left England, asthma. The individual States make insurance available to people like myself, it's expensive but it looks like Obamacare will be more expensive.
So why didnt whatever president who was in charge at the time stop the frivolous lawsuits? Could it be that the lawyers involved were also on the gravy train? How is that Obama's fault?
My point is that Obamacare, which obviously is Obama's legislation, missed the main reason for the ridiculously high health costs, lawyers, not health care.
It's not just lawyers, the whole medical industry in America is one big gravy train. Through your health insurance you pay 10 times the price we pay here over the counter for simple drugs, $2000 for a hearing aid that Boots sell for £300. The list goes on an on.The health insurers have deals with the hospitals, the hospitals have deals with the drug companies, and everybody ensure they get their slice out of the ever increases paid by the customers, who get worse and worse cover.
It's not just lawyers, the whole medical industry in America is one big gravy train. Through your health insurance you pay 10 times the price we pay here over the counter for simple drugs, $2000 for a hearing aid that Boots sell for £300. The list goes on an on.The health insurers have deals with the hospitals, the hospitals have deals with the drug companies, and everybody ensure they get their slice out of the ever increases paid by the customers, who get worse and worse cover.
I can assure you, though, that in that $2000 dollars for the hearing aid, there are costs associated with lawyers protecting against lawsuits.
Of course, but all I'm saying is that it's not just lawyers, everybody in the system from top to not quite bottom are gaming the system for their own benefit. Whether that be suppliers, insurance companies, lawyers, administrators, management, whatever. There is no simple fix, you might be able to lesson the effect of lawyers, but that'll only put a small dent in the overall problem.
Can't believe he is walking. At least it shows we are not the only country with a dubious legal system.
Civil rights groups in the US have expressed dismay after neighbourhood watchman George Zimmerman was found not guilty of murdering black teenager Trayvon Martin in Florida last year.
Rights leader Jesse Jackson said he was "stunned" and that the Department of Justice (DoJ) should intervene.
Meanwhile Mr Zimmerman's family and lawyers have said they now fear he could face revenge attacks.
The case sparked a fierce debate in the US about racial profiling.
Trayvon Martin's relatives say they are "hurt" and "disappointed" over the verdict Prosecutors had argued that Mr Zimmerman opened fired on 26 February 2012 because he assumed that Trayvon Martin, who was African-American and was wearing a hooded sweatshirt as he walked in the rain, was up to no good.
But the defence said he shot Trayvon Martin in self defence after the teenager had punched their client, slammed his head into the pavement and reached for Mr Zimmerman's gun.
Defence 'ecstatic' Mr Zimmerman was facing possible conviction for second-degree murder or manslaughter, but on Saturday he was cleared of all charges by the six-women jury at Seminole County Criminal Justice Center in Sanford, Florida.
Protesters converged on the Seminole County Criminal Justice Centre shortly after the jury retired to consider its verdict - a couple of dozen of them at first. Then, on the second day of deliberations, a larger and louder group whose numbers slowly started to grow. They stood chanting and staring up at the fifth floor window of the courthouse, where the all-women jury was considering its verdict.
Then, when signs of movement suddenly filled that window, the crowd erupted into a frenzy. The excitement was short-lived however: As word spread of George Zimmerman's acquittal reached them a sense of sadness - sometimes mixed with anger - filled the hot and humid summer night.
Police and community leaders in central Florida have appealed for calm, but with further protests planned, they've drawn up contingency plans just in case this verdict is met with a violent response.
One of his lawyer's, Mark O'Mara, said the defence team were "ecstatic".
"George Zimmerman was never guilty of anything except protecting himself in self defence. I'm glad that the jury saw it that way," he said.
Another defence lawyer, Don West, said the prosecution had been "disgraceful".
"As happy as I am for George Zimmerman, I'm thrilled that this jury kept this tragedy from becoming a travesty," he said.
However, following the verdict, protest marches were staged in US cities including San Francisco, Philadelphia, Chicago, Washington and Atlanta.
In Oakland, California, some protesters started small fires and smashed windows.
Civil rights leader Jesse Jackson told CNN on Sunday: "I remain stunned at the decision. The Department of Justice must intervene to take this to another level."
It appears to be very difficult for black Americans to seek justice in the legal system”
In a Facebook posting, he said "the American legal system has once again failed justice". But he also appealed for calm, saying anyone seeking to "compound our pain with street justice" would do "damage to the innocent blood and legacy of Trayvon Martin".
Right activist Al Sharpton also appealed for calm, but said the verdict was "a slap in the face to the American people".He compared the case to the beating of African-American man Rodney King by police in 1991, which sparked widespread rioting.
Campaign group the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) has launched a petition demanding that the DoJ open a civil rights case against Mr Zimmerman.
Its president, Benjamin Todd Jealous, wrote: "The most fundamental of civil rights - the right to life - was violated the night George Zimmerman stalked and then took the life of Trayvon Martin."
Revenge fears Daryl Parks, lawyer for the Martin family, told BBC News he hoped the case would be a wake-up call for the US.
'Stand Your Ground' laws
Provide that people who fear for their lives can use deadly force to defend themselves without having to flee a confrontation Cited by Florida police after they released George Zimmerman without charge on the night of the shooting Allows use of deadly force if citizen believes it is necessary "to prevent death or great bodily harm" or "imminent commission of a forcible felony" Critics say they encourage a "shoot first" attitude At least 33 states allow use of deadly force in self-defence, according to Association of Prosecuting Attorneys US media on Zimmerman verdict "Many will realise that if there is a law that would allow you to kill an unarmed teenager, then that's a law that we probably should look at and change," he said.
Florida police had angered many by not arresting Mr Zimmerman for six weeks after the shooting, citing the state's controversial "stand your ground" law, which allows a citizen to use lethal force if he or she feels in imminent danger.
But Mr Parks said the trial had given the US "a new perspective on black life - when a young black person gets killed, the approach that it takes to investigate, to arrest the person that did it".
Mr Zimmerman's brother, Robert, and his lawyers said they were concerned for his safety.
Meanwhile Mr Zimmerman's family and representatives have said they are afraid he could fall victim to revenge attacks.
His brother, Robert said he had received frequent threats on social media and there was "more reason now than ever to think that people are trying to kill him".
"He's going to be looking over his shoulder the rest of his life," he said.
Dont remember protests and Jesse Jackson getting upset about the American justice system whent OJ SImpson was found not guilty of murdering the white woman Nicole Brown...it seems despite the assumption of guilt by the media they got it spot on that time.
It's not just lawyers, the whole medical industry in America is one big gravy train. Through your health insurance you pay 10 times the price we pay here over the counter for simple drugs, $2000 for a hearing aid that Boots sell for £300. The list goes on an on.The health insurers have deals with the hospitals, the hospitals have deals with the drug companies, and everybody ensure they get their slice out of the ever increases paid by the customers, who get worse and worse cover.
I can assure you, though, that in that $2000 dollars for the hearing aid, there are costs associated with lawyers protecting against lawsuits.
Who do you blame more, the lawyers, or the average American who thinks it's right to sue for the smallest of things?
It's not just lawyers, the whole medical industry in America is one big gravy train. Through your health insurance you pay 10 times the price we pay here over the counter for simple drugs, $2000 for a hearing aid that Boots sell for £300. The list goes on an on.The health insurers have deals with the hospitals, the hospitals have deals with the drug companies, and everybody ensure they get their slice out of the ever increases paid by the customers, who get worse and worse cover.
I can assure you, though, that in that $2000 dollars for the hearing aid, there are costs associated with lawyers protecting against lawsuits.
Who do you blame more, the lawyers, or the average American who thinks it's right to sue for the smallest of things?
There are too many lawyers, some of them practically starving. They advertise on TV and work for a contingency. Lawyers "go after the deepest pockets" because there's likely to be a settlement. Until there's a price to pay for bringing a flawed case, lawyers and their clients will take advantage of the system.
Gave that a watch, very interesting. Raises a lot of very good points that the media deliberately miss for their own agenda.
Like Buckshee said only two people know what happened, but people need to respect the decision made. Would they only be happy if he was found guilty even though he might not have been? Most seem to know so little about the case and no-one knows what actually happens but because this man is white (hispanic) he's definitely guilty.
I suspect the jury had no choice but to acquit. I'm surprised anyone thought differently. This is because of the laws that exist in Florida regarding handguns. First, you are allowed to carry a concealed handgun. Second, under Florida law, there is no "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a lawful right to be. Instead, you may stand your ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or bodily harm to yourself or others. I'm not saying I agree with it but that's the law in Florida and it's residents know that and, in the main, act accordingly. It's perfectly legal to carry a handgun in the glove box of your automobile. People know this and know about the above-mentioned law. That's why there is precious little by way of road rage in Florida. People realise they could quite easily be shot and decide to drive accordingly. For the residents of Florida the answer is simple, if they don't want that law on their statute book, then vote for a policitican who says they will remove it.
I don't doubt your knowledge of the law as it stands in Florida - and, as you say, in a democracy the citizens have the ultimate sanction of removing the law-makers. Or at least, that's the theory - remember the shenanigans over the "hanging chads" (in Florida, incidentally) that got Bush scandalously re-elected? Notwithstanding rampant corruption, there are just laws and unjust laws. I go back to the very first posting on this thread: Zimmerman is technically innocent, but the State of Florida is guilty.
I haven't had time to watch the video, but from what I know of the case, the biggest problem is that Zimmerman being acquitted encourages others to take the law into their own hands. It may well be true that there wasn't enough evidence to sentence Zimmerman, but for me it's a wider issue than that. Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin, supposedly in self-defence, even though Martin had no weapons on him? I'm sure many people in the UK, and maybe some on CL have been involved in scraps in self-defence before, but would never consider killing the attacker, quite possibly because they wouldn't want to face the consequences. In the US, it now becomes a 'legal' action to kill someone in self-defence, and this may well lead to more and more murders of the same kind.
Viewfinder, why do you say Florida is guilty? Was found not guilty by a jury by reason of self defence.
Zimmerman was acquitted by the jury at the Seminole County Criminal Justice Centre. However, the court of public opinion finds the State of Florida guilty for permitting virtually anyone to wander around with a gun and to kill people at the slightest provocation. See cafcfan's concise summary of Florida's gun laws, above.
I haven't had time to watch the video, but from what I know of the case, the biggest problem is that Zimmerman being acquitted encourages others to take the law into their own hands. It may well be true that there wasn't enough evidence to sentence Zimmerman, but for me it's a wider issue than that. Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin, supposedly in self-defence, even though Martin had no weapons on him? I'm sure many people in the UK, and maybe some on CL have been involved in scraps in self-defence before, but would never consider killing the attacker, quite possibly because they wouldn't want to face the consequences. In the US, it now becomes a 'legal' action to kill someone in self-defence, and this may well lead to more and more murders of the same kind.
Watch the video, it lays out the evidence, including positive drugs tests on Trayvon after the shooting, that back up Zimmermans testament that Trayvon was high or acting weird, that was backed up by all witnesses in court & forensics on the scene, not one of these facts was denied or challenged by the prosecution/state. Trayvon was battering him, smashing Zimmermans head against the concrete, reaching for Zimmermans gun, hardly a scrap or slightest provocation.
Zimmerman suffered all the injuries, broken nose, black eyes, heavily bleeding head injurys, Trayvon was not injured in anyway except for the fatal gunshot wound (that sounds flippant but it speaks volumes to me)
Me in the same situation, black, asian, hispanic, white, whomever, your getting a bullet.
Viewfinder, why do you say Florida is guilty? Was found not guilty by a jury by reason of self defence.
Zimmerman was acquitted by the jury at the Seminole County Criminal Justice Centre. However, the court of public opinion finds the State of Florida guilty for permitting virtually anyone to wander around with a gun and to kill people at the slightest provocation. See cafcfan's concise summary of Florida's gun laws, above.
As a resident of Florida, you either vote to have the law changed or move.
If you think the actions of Trayvon fall under 'the slightest provocation' then I'd hate to see how you would attack someone.
I've just returned from America and its been difficult to avoid this case as all the news channels have shown the court case live and analized the trial in detail. It would appear's that the prosecution's case was at times presented poorly that some of their witnesses evidence aided the defence. If you take the race element from the trial (which is almost impossible) the defence lawyers summing up after the verdict was probably correct when he said that "A tragic event had not been turned into a travesty of justice."
Comments
Excellent Analysis
Very good point that
Like Buckshee said only two people know what happened, but people need to respect the decision made. Would they only be happy if he was found guilty even though he might not have been? Most seem to know so little about the case and no-one knows what actually happens but because this man is white (hispanic) he's definitely guilty.
Zimmerman suffered all the injuries, broken nose, black eyes, heavily bleeding head injurys, Trayvon was not injured in anyway except for the fatal gunshot wound (that sounds flippant but it speaks volumes to me)
Me in the same situation, black, asian, hispanic, white, whomever, your getting a bullet.
If you think the actions of Trayvon fall under 'the slightest provocation' then I'd hate to see how you would attack someone.
It would appear's that the prosecution's case was at times presented poorly that some of their witnesses evidence aided the defence. If you take the race element from the trial (which is almost impossible) the defence lawyers summing up after the verdict was probably correct when he said that "A tragic event had not been turned into a travesty of justice."