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Greg Dyke and his targets for the England team

Our aim is to reach the semi's of Euro 2020 and win Qatar 2022!

Seriously, what is this guy on? The way we're going a better target would be to qualify for Qatar 2022!

Sort out our grass roots football, build from the bottom up, employ more professional coaches to teach our kids and then we can start worrying about winning world cups.
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Comments

  • Easy for him to make targets like that - but he won't be around in 2020 let alone 2022.
  • Our aim is to reach the semi's of Euro 2020 and win Qatar 2022!

    Seriously, what is this guy on? The way we're going a better target would be to qualify for Qatar 2022!

    Sort out our grass roots football, build from the bottom up, employ more professional coaches to teach our kids and then we can start worrying about winning world cups.

    Which in turn will only happen when the FAPL is brought back under the FA. Greg Dyke knows this perfectly well but can't say it.

  • Pointless statement.

    Just try to sort out training more coaches and the structure of kid's football.
  • English kids need the chance to flourish at the highest level of our domestic game. They are not getting that opportunity.
  • edited September 2013
    I like the 2020 target; to (consistently) reach the semi-final of anything would be progress for England fans like me. '96 came too early (I was three years old!) so never seen us get past the QF of any competition sadly.

    To win the 2022 World Cup seems a bit fanciful though.
  • Greg Dyke is no fool, I have a lot of respect for him. He saved TV AM, maybe he'll bring in Roland to replace Roy!
  • Just a complete rentaquote saying what people want to hear. For any country to publically state that they aim to win a tournament a decade later, in another continent, with no idea about which players they'll have, what players their rivals will have, what the draw is and whether they'll qualify, is idiotic. Even if it were Brazil or Germany with a much wider pool of players and far better historical performance, it would be ridiculously speculative. This has been on constant rotation for years. Grass roots improvements. More English players at top flight teams, that'll sort it. The facilities and coaching and academies are better than ever. they've been coming out with the same old toot in Scotland for years.

    The bottom line is that British clubs aren't buying foreign players because their worse or more expensive! Improving technique and levels of fitness and a bit of luck in the natural talent stakes are the significant factors. The FAs north and south of the border have failed to make those improvements, and concentrated on meaningless soundbites.
  • It will never happen until they cap the amount of non English players playing in the prem. And we all know that's highly unlikely.
  • What aboout the 70s and 80s when we hardly had any foreigners playing over here, we were pony then!

    To say it's because of the number of non English players playing is lazy IMO.
  • It will never happen until they cap the amount of non English players playing in the prem. And we all know that's highly unlikely.


    They can't do that because it's restraint of trade and illegal these days.

    Any scheme that tries to increase the standard of English football simply by forcing English clubs to play players that aren't good enough just because they are English is doomed to failure.

    The only way to succeed is to make the players coming through so good they can't be ignored. And the only way to do that is by improving the standard of everyone so significantly that the top few are by their nature, the best of the best. And the only way of doing that is by increasing the standard of and exposure to coaching that every kid gets.

    Number of coaches holding the following badges: Uefa's A and B Pro badges

    England 2,769
    Spain 23,995
    Italy 29,420
    Germany 34,970
    France 17,588

    That is the following ratio of active players:

    Spain 1:17
    Italy 1:48
    France 1:96
    Germany 1:150
    Greece 1:135
    England 1:812

    What hope have we got?!
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  • What hope have we got?!

    A lot of hope, or more hope than you think. I mentioned in the article I wrote for the Trust on academies that we are a generation behind most European teams in terms of coaching the coaches and getting the basic infrastructure right. But the academy system is now up and running and the FA etc is now taking the issue of increasing the number of coaches with UEFA A, B and Pro badges seriously - and that includes Chris Powell.

    What really has to change is the amateur attitude that pervades British sport that prefers jobs for the boys and enthusiastic but clueless volunteers over professionally qualified coaches. If we switch sports to cricket the ECB ploughs the profits from the TV contracts back into the sport - that means schools of excellence, qualified coaches, improved injury treatment, specialist coaches, better facilities etc. The result is that the English cricket team after lagging behind Australia for many years are now regularly beating them. Similarly with cycling - a generation back the idea that Britain could produce a Tour de France winner would be a joke, we've had two on the trot and dozens of Olympic medals on the track plus a world champion, all are graduates of the Dave Brailsford led cycling academy. Success won't happen overnight with the academy system in football but admitting that there is a problem and getting the infrastructure in place are the first steps and if cricket, cycling and other sports with much less money can get it right, so can football.

    Who knows if we will win the WC or not in 2022, being nine years away I doubt that anyone currently in the England squad will still be playing then, but we should see graduates of the FL and Prem academies who are 10/11/12 years old now getting into the England team by then.
  • Shocking figures quoted above: the British ambivalence about coaching qualifications. We have been paying for the 'we know best' isolationist approach in football for generations.
  • Chris from Sidcup, really interesting stats.

    You've obviously got the figures to hand - how many active English players would we have to convert to A & B coaches to turn the ratio to, say, 1:150 ?
  • edited September 2013
    I think that he has hit many nails, whether he hit them square on the head is debateable, what is certain you will get the football people saying he doesn't know football because he hasn't played/ run a club, GD was right to set targets surely we go into every comp to win it , but to set it in 2022 when the majority of that squad are only at academies right now seems fanciful

    the most important thing for GD to ensure is that just because players get picked for the first team, if they are still young enough to play in u21's then they should be forced to play for them in major tournaments and if mgrs like wenger object punish the mgr and the club and don't allow the national mgr to pick them for friendlies that clash with the major u21 or u20 tournament
  • I think that he has hit many nails, whether he hit them square on the head is debateable, what is certain you will get the football people saying he doesn't know football because he hasn't played/ run a club, GD was right to set targets surely we go into every comp to win it , but to set it in 2022 when the majority of that squad are only at academies right now seems fanciful

    the most important thing for GD to ensure is that just because players get picked for the first team, if they are still young enough to play in u21's then they should be forced to play for them in major tournaments and if mgrs like wenger object punish the mgr and the club and don't allow the national mgr to pick them for friendlies that clash with the major u21 or u20 tournament

    True mate, but we are back to Prague's point about the Premier League telling the FA what to do, rather than it being the other way around...
  • Mark Saggers made a good point yesterday about Lukaku. The fact that Chelsea can sign him and then loan him out straight away to clubs who otherwise couldn't afford him is a bad practice.
  • carly the loan system in its current form is a huge factor imo as to what is wrong with football today, even the 25 man squad system is failed with the u21 rule being so lax, you should only be able to have 25 players on your books period to play a season of football, if you need players as cover those players should come from the u21-u18 squads and the players you pull forward should have played x % of u21-u18 games that season thus far


    you should out of the 25 man squad have 11 players that are of the nation where the league is played, and the rest made of transfers from anywhere they want however there should be a minimum of 3 players that is named on any given match day squad that come through their development squads and in every match day squad there should be 5 players of whom are from the nation in which the league is played

    this should be led by FIFA and UEFA and endorsed by every single fa in those governing bodies
  • Capping the number of English players won't make the kids better, it will just make the league worse.

    Youth development is where things need to improve. From age 5-18.
  • Does anybody remember a football writer called Alex Fynn? 23 years ago he was writing that football needs to be organised as a pyramid, and at the apex is the national team, which takes priority over all else. To get that, he wrote, football needs to be run by one powerful organisation. He also wrote that the leagues need to be organised so that the maximum number of games are 'events'. To get this, he recommended regionalising below the then Second Division. I remember the sentence very well. "For example, Liverpool vs Charlton Athletic is not an event. But Peterborough vs Cambridge is."

    They listened to him, and did exactly what he said. The Germans, that is...
  • Capping the number of English players won't make the kids better, it will just make the league worse.

    Youth development is where things need to improve. From age 5-18.




    if you manage the amount needed in the first team then teams are forced to improved youth development and coaching
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  • Capping the number of English players won't make the kids better, it will just make the league worse.

    Youth development is where things need to improve. From age 5-18.




    if you manage the amount needed in the first team then teams are forced to improved youth development and coaching
    Once foreigners are in the country for 4-5 years they are classed as of English nationality (Arteta can play for English etc.). Won't do much for youth development.
  • Then you also make it that you can only deem those that can play for a national team are those that have grandparent/s from that nation not just parents or those that have been in the country from 5yrs of age onwards


    the aim is that the world cups and the European championships are improved and that the leagues stay competitive at the minute the best football competition in this country is the football league not the prem, the prem is where the cash is the marketing makes you believe its the best in the world, but it is not its not competitive in its essence look at the championship last season

    from top to bottom competitive ,

    I want us to reach the prem but mainly because the season leading to the promotion would be fantastic
  • Then you also make it that you can only deem those that can play for a national team are those that have grandparent/s from that nation not just parents or those that have been in the country from 5yrs of age onwards

    That conflicts with EU law for a start, but why? If a player qualifies by residency or because he is born here while his parents/grandparents weren't then that's good enough for me. If he move to this country at say 5 years of age he would have gone through an academy paid for by the FA and then having produced a quality footballer we'd be saying to the Nigerian FA or wherever he moved from "here you go have the star striker that we've trained up and produced for you, please take good care of him...and remember us when he wins the WC for you".

  • but it wouldn't have been the English Fa who paid for his main coaching it would've been his parent club for a vast majority


    what EU law does it conflict, surely there is no EU law that decides what Football associations can use to determine eligibility to play for the national football team not a dig a genuine question
  • very ambitious what he says .. but what else can he say? .. let's hope he is right, though restricting foreigners rights to play over here is going to be difficult.
  • what EU law does it conflict, surely there is no EU law that decides what Football associations can use to determine eligibility to play for the national football team not a dig a genuine question

    This would come under prohibitions against discrimination (Article 19 TFEU) and unequal treatment contained in the Treaties. Essentially if someone qualifies by residency to be British they should also qualify to play for the national team as long as the requirements of the FA have been met. This could mean for example that the English FA won't recognise someone as being qualified if they have played competitive football for another nation within a certain time frame and that is set in turn I think by UEFA. So a person not born in England and who's parents/grandparents were also not British could claim that it was discriminatory if they were barred from being selected for England if they fulfilled all other criteria.
  • could you not argue though the fa requirement is that the have for example English Grandparents and been in the country from 5 yrs of age
  • edited September 2013

    could you not argue though the fa requirement is that the have for example English Grandparents and been in the country from 5 yrs of age

    All grandparents? Even if it just one it sets in place an artificial discrimination. Trust me the EU are shit hot on matters of racial discrimination, it would never work.

  • If you want to mandate minimum numbers of English qualified players in either squads or teams, then you are reliant on the voluntary agreement of the clubs, as otherwise it's a very clear breach of EU employment and human rights laws. This is why we have this mangled "homegrown player" rule, as deliberately mangled by the clubs to suit there own needs.

    The only way for England to be successful is a far fairer distribution of the cash. English players are overpriced, as lower league clubs see this as the only way of getting the cash. Managers last an average of 2 years, they aren't interesting in developing players, they need results now. Again this is down to the money, and the pressure it creates.

    The new academy rules ensure that the top clubs will hover up all and any promising youngsters. They may get good coaching, but they won't play enough football when it matters, the vast majority will be dropped before they've even had a chance to enjoy they game and will be lost. They won't be able to go back to playing with their mates on a weekend, they never had that, it was denied them as soon as they showed any talent.

    We are heading for a time very soon where we have a huge number of disillusioned young men who given a less callous system could have developed into great players, but they were too short at 12, or hadn't developed sufficiently at 15, but at 21 they might have been world class. We are also creating a generation of players who have played no games for their club and if are lucky might have played a handful of games on loan by the time they're 21/22. They should be plying their trade in the lower leagues, learning their trade, but they're sitting in the reserves at big clubs never playing proper games and therefore stagnating and eventually being lost to the game.
  • could you not argue though the fa requirement is that the have for example English Grandparents and been in the country from 5 yrs of age

    Telling a kid that has lived in England from the age of 5 (due to parents immigrating for work/refugees): 'Sorry, you can't play for England because your granddad or parents weren't born here' is harsh and slightly racist imo.

    If you live in England long enough to gain nationality, you should be able to play for England.
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