There was a move last year to get Arteta into an England squad. He qualified through the residence rules. Reportedly, Arteta was all for it. The idea was nixed mainly due to resistance from England fans who didn't regard him as English. Because of the 'nationality' laws/rules, anyone born outside the UK who qualifies for a British passport is eligible to play for any of the four home countries. Maik Taylor for example was born in Germany of English/German parentage and he ended up as a Northern Ireland international
There was a move last year to get Arteta into an England squad. He qualified through the residence rules. Reportedly, Arteta was all for it. The idea was nixed mainly due to resistance from England fans who didn't regard him as English. Because of the 'nationality' laws/rules, anyone born outside the UK who qualifies for a British passport is eligible to play for any of the four home countries. Maik Taylor for example was born in Germany of English/German parentage and he ended up as a Northern Ireland international
Same with Almunia. Though most said he wasn't good enough for the team anyway.
Don't think it was nixed on the basis of fan hostility. As soon as rumours surfaced that Arteta might get a call up from England he miraculously appeared in the next Spain squad. Strangely he hasn't been called up by Spain since.
The problem in the UK is complicated but you can look at our very own youth to see one of the issues.
This season, Cousins has broken through to our first team and looks like he could well go on to establish himself successfully. Meanwhile Kasey Palmer has been hoovered into the chelsea academy where, chances are he will be lost in a hundred other kids and with first team chances of practicaly zero given the amount Chelsea have just splashed on their midfield.
Go back 2 years and look at the progress of Jenkinson (arsenal first team squad) + Shelvey (Swansea first team) compared with Mcginty (3rd div after being swallowed up in the vast United academy and losing his way).
This is not just happening with us, compare Zaha who established his credentials in the Palace first team for a couple of years to Bostock who jumped into a large acamedy early.
The FA need to somehow sort this issue out as until they do the cream of our 14, 15 and 16 year olds will just be hoovered into vast academies in teams with limited real ability to ever break through where they lose focus and interest.
I have copied this verbatim from 'wiki' .. how accurate it all is, I can't say
Mikel Arteta is eligible for the Spanish national football team. Arteta has played for Spain at Under 16, Under 17, Under 18 and Under 21 levels but has not played for the senior international team. He represented Spain in the U16 European Championships, UEFA-CAF Meridian Cup, FIFA U17 World Cup and captained Spain in the U21 European Championships qualifying campaign.
In August 2010, several British news organisations erroneously reported that Arteta would be eligible to play for the England national football team due to his eligibility for a British passport. The player is not eligible for England because FIFA Statutes stipulate that the player needs to have held a British passport at the time when he represented Spain at the U16 European Championships and in addition he would have required five years of education in Britain before turning 18.[25][26]
In November 2011, Arteta reiterated his desire to one day represent his country at international level. "It’s one of my targets and I won’t stop going for it because I really want to represent my country". He went on to praise the current Spanish midfield as "the best midfield the world has ever seen".[27]
On 10 October 2012, fellow Spaniard and Arsenal team-mate Santi Cazorla said that it was 'strange' that Arteta had never been called up by Spain despite consistently impressing in the Premier League.[28]
Then you also make it that you can only deem those that can play for a national team are those that have grandparent/s from that nation not just parents or those that have been in the country from 5yrs of age onwards the aim is that the world cups and the European championships are improved and that the leagues stay competitive at the minute the best football competition in this country is the football league not the prem, the prem is where the cash is the marketing makes you believe its the best in the world, but it is not its not competitive in its essence look at the championship last season
from top to bottom competitive ,
I want us to reach the prem but mainly because the season leading to the promotion would be fantastic
SELR I think you will find before your post I clearly state that the 5 yrs of age scenario
The idea that the coaching in this country is not good enough is rubbish. It's far far better than it was twenty years ago. Kids playing football competitively has become a national obsession. Training in the week and then matches over the weekend. I personally think all this starts too early, but good coaching is available at a very early age.
The new academy rules ensure that the top clubs will hover up all and any promising youngsters.
Only if those young players want to go - as minors they cannot be legally held to any contract they sign. So there is nothing that the the FA can do regardless of what laws they impose. In theory it ought to be legally possible for clubs with Tier Two academies to poach players from Tier One academies, but that hasn't been tried yet - the basis for that argument is that the laws of the land trump any laws/rules imposed by the FA. I doubt that many clubs would be brave enough to try it on though as the FA subsidise the academies.
Despite winning two competitions last year our academy only lost one player. The risk any young player takes is in going to a prem club with a Tier One academy and maybe getting lost in their system and finding that the route to the first team is being blocked by somone with dozens of caps and a few medals in the cabinet. But there'll always be those who take the money/think that the Prem club will offer them a better opportunity, however in practice the evidence suggests that most will prefer to see out their footballing education at Charlton. Whether that is the case at other clubs depends on the quality of coaching that they are receiving. As long as we can offer a high standard of coaching and first team opportunities then I think we'll retain most of our academy players.
I have copied this verbatim from 'wiki' .. how accurate it all is, I can't say
Mikel Arteta is eligible for the Spanish national football team. Arteta has played for Spain at Under 16, Under 17, Under 18 and Under 21 levels but has not played for the senior international team. He represented Spain in the U16 European Championships, UEFA-CAF Meridian Cup, FIFA U17 World Cup and captained Spain in the U21 European Championships qualifying campaign.
In August 2010, several British news organisations erroneously reported that Arteta would be eligible to play for the England national football team due to his eligibility for a British passport. The player is not eligible for England because FIFA Statutes stipulate that the player needs to have held a British passport at the time when he represented Spain at the U16 European Championships and in addition he would have required five years of education in Britain before turning 18.[25][26]
In November 2011, Arteta reiterated his desire to one day represent his country at international level. "It’s one of my targets and I won’t stop going for it because I really want to represent my country". He went on to praise the current Spanish midfield as "the best midfield the world has ever seen".[27]
On 10 October 2012, fellow Spaniard and Arsenal team-mate Santi Cazorla said that it was 'strange' that Arteta had never been called up by Spain despite consistently impressing in the Premier League.[28]
For that to be true the eligibility rules must have changed, which is possible. Roy Weggerly (sp?) played for the US based on marrying an American. He wasn't even resident as he was playing for Coventry here.
I imagine, like most things, the rules have got drastically more complicated and help keep a plethora of bureaucrats employed at UEFA, FIFA and the various national FAs.
The idea that the coaching in this country is not good enough is rubbish. It's far far better than it was twenty years ago. Kids playing football competitively has become a national obsession. Training in the week and then matches over the weekend. I personally think all this starts too early, but good coaching is available at a very early age.
Carly the coaching at top levels may be good enough but it is not at grass roots and there should be more done for there to be more free courses for people that give up their spare time to coach kids, not just level one but two and three and reduction in costs for the next stages
Then you also make it that you can only deem those that can play for a national team are those that have grandparent/s from that nation not just parents or those that have been in the country from 5yrs of age onwards the aim is that the world cups and the European championships are improved and that the leagues stay competitive at the minute the best football competition in this country is the football league not the prem, the prem is where the cash is the marketing makes you believe its the best in the world, but it is not its not competitive in its essence look at the championship last season
from top to bottom competitive ,
I want us to reach the prem but mainly because the season leading to the promotion would be fantastic
SELR I think you will find before your post I clearly state that the 5 yrs of age scenario
Fair enough, missed that point.
Do think making rulings of English participation in first-teams will be open to abuse by top teams and their lawyers. For example Premiership teams sometimes loan out players without work permits to Spanish or Italian clubs until they gain EU nationality and able to play in England.
Ridiculous targets - make the changes that are going to achieve those targets first! Like has been said- easy to make as he will be long gone by then!
Dyke opposes it, but if you are serious about bringing through English talent, one thing you have to have is quotas. premiership clubs will never care about the England team!
Grass roots coaching is stuck in the 80s in too many cases - play 11 a side as early as possible in full size goals. My son is 12 and moving to 11 a-side this season on a pitch that isn't much smaller than full size. The 80s coaches can't wait...2 years too early!!!! But you have to understand why pitches need to be proportionate!
Ridiculous targets - make the changes that are going to achieve those targets first! Like has been said- easy to make as he will be long gone by then!
Dyke opposes it, but if you are serious about bringing through English talent, one thing you have to have is quotas. premiership clubs will never care about the England team!
!
Exaclty the PL aren't going to agree to any quota system - is all about instant success and the money.
Lots on pressure on the next manager or two if Dyke wants success in 2022!
Trying to justify his unjustifiable salary! Watching the u-21's, beherino up front. Says it all. We won't win Jack until we start producing a few top level strikers. By the way they are shocking. Well done appointing Gareth Southgate.
Asked Danny Mills be part of his team to rescue the international team. THE man who gave us Roland Rat. The chairman whose club went into administration two months after he took charge. career FA “blazer” on record as being resistant to change. A player described as a “liability” by his manager. Somebody sacked by the FA for his views on disabled people. The man charged with answering exactly the same problem 16 years ago. At least on the plus side football-wise, there is also somebody who has produced a stream of top-quality players for nearly three decades and a player once described by Johan Cruyff as the new Marco van Basten. I give you Greg Dyke, Greg Clarke, Roger Burden, Danny Mills, Glenn Hoddle, Howard Wilkinson, Dario Gradi and, believe it or not, Chesterfield striker Ritchie Humphreys.
''Danny Mills wrote a very interesting paper and gave it to us – very interesting ideas.”
In Ritchie Humphreys defence He is the PFA Chairman elect (Starts in November). He has said He will talk to as many members as possible and take what they say/suggest to the meetings.
I have copied this verbatim from 'wiki' .. how accurate it all is, I can't say
Mikel Arteta is eligible for the Spanish national football team. Arteta has played for Spain at Under 16, Under 17, Under 18 and Under 21 levels but has not played for the senior international team. He represented Spain in the U16 European Championships, UEFA-CAF Meridian Cup, FIFA U17 World Cup and captained Spain in the U21 European Championships qualifying campaign.
In August 2010, several British news organisations erroneously reported that Arteta would be eligible to play for the England national football team due to his eligibility for a British passport. The player is not eligible for England because FIFA Statutes stipulate that the player needs to have held a British passport at the time when he represented Spain at the U16 European Championships and in addition he would have required five years of education in Britain before turning 18.[25][26]
In November 2011, Arteta reiterated his desire to one day represent his country at international level. "It’s one of my targets and I won’t stop going for it because I really want to represent my country". He went on to praise the current Spanish midfield as "the best midfield the world has ever seen".[27]
On 10 October 2012, fellow Spaniard and Arsenal team-mate Santi Cazorla said that it was 'strange' that Arteta had never been called up by Spain despite consistently impressing in the Premier League.[28]
For that to be true the eligibility rules must have changed, which is possible. Roy Weggerly (sp?) played for the US based on marrying an American. He wasn't even resident as he was playing for Coventry here.
I imagine, like most things, the rules have got drastically more complicated and help keep a plethora of bureaucrats employed at UEFA, FIFA and the various national FAs.
Isn't there a gentlemans rule/agreement between the home nations surrounding this? Along the lines of if the player has been educated for 5+ years, before the age of 18 in say Scotland and claims residency, he is eligible for Scotland. (Line of heritage could also allow them to play elsewhere).
As part of this the home nations opted out of the residency rule (5+ years after the age of 18)
Thats what I have been led to believe on the matter anyway - could be very factually incorrect!
It's very easy to be cynical, but with Burton now established we have the foundations for a vision. Love him or hate him, we now have a visionary leading the FA. This for me is good news, amidst all the short termism that plagues our society, let alone the football society.
I listened to Glenn Hoddle and Neil Warnock chatting on the Alan Brazil Breakfast Show on Talk Sport this morning, absolutely fascinating stuff. Hoddle has experience of how Europe does things, and runs his own academy in Spain for players released by pro clubs. He supports quotas, recognises that developing a sense of competition is still important whilst developing kids' technique, and importantly acknowledges that this is a long term project.
I think the commission itself is a mixed bag. Alongside Hoddle, you have Howard Wilkinson and Dario Gradi - who has achieved miracles with his youth development approach - who I think are brilliant choices. I'm surprised that there's no involvement from Southampton's academy, particularly Les Reed, because they really are doing something special there. If Mills has some ideas that would help move Dyke's vision along then why not involve him? Although I do have sympathy with Lineker's view on the rest.
Interestingly, Warnock (who's excellent value as a pundit by the way) suggested that they should have included supporter representation. Sol Campbell, whose presentation is about as classy as his transfer handling, might have a point about the lack of any black faces. Andy Ansah might have been an interesting addition, for example.
It's criminal that the Premier League have decided not to be represented. This might actually play into Dyke's hand, which he very nearly acknowledges.
More worrying was the noise from Galatasaray in the week, about how a Euro super league - to replace domestic competition for Europe's top 20 clubs - was inevitable before 2018.
Comments
Because of the 'nationality' laws/rules, anyone born outside the UK who qualifies for a British passport is eligible to play for any of the four home countries. Maik Taylor for example was born in Germany of English/German parentage and he ended up as a Northern Ireland international
This season, Cousins has broken through to our first team and looks like he could well go on to establish himself successfully. Meanwhile Kasey Palmer has been hoovered into the chelsea academy where, chances are he will be lost in a hundred other kids and with first team chances of practicaly zero given the amount Chelsea have just splashed on their midfield.
Go back 2 years and look at the progress of Jenkinson (arsenal first team squad) + Shelvey (Swansea first team) compared with Mcginty (3rd div after being swallowed up in the vast United academy and losing his way).
This is not just happening with us, compare Zaha who established his credentials in the Palace first team for a couple of years to Bostock who jumped into a large acamedy early.
The FA need to somehow sort this issue out as until they do the cream of our 14, 15 and 16 year olds will just be hoovered into vast academies in teams with limited real ability to ever break through where they lose focus and interest.
Mikel Arteta is eligible for the Spanish national football team. Arteta has played for Spain at Under 16, Under 17, Under 18 and Under 21 levels but has not played for the senior international team. He represented Spain in the U16 European Championships, UEFA-CAF Meridian Cup, FIFA U17 World Cup and captained Spain in the U21 European Championships qualifying campaign.
In August 2010, several British news organisations erroneously reported that Arteta would be eligible to play for the England national football team due to his eligibility for a British passport. The player is not eligible for England because FIFA Statutes stipulate that the player needs to have held a British passport at the time when he represented Spain at the U16 European Championships and in addition he would have required five years of education in Britain before turning 18.[25][26]
In November 2011, Arteta reiterated his desire to one day represent his country at international level. "It’s one of my targets and I won’t stop going for it because I really want to represent my country". He went on to praise the current Spanish midfield as "the best midfield the world has ever seen".[27]
On 10 October 2012, fellow Spaniard and Arsenal team-mate Santi Cazorla said that it was 'strange' that Arteta had never been called up by Spain despite consistently impressing in the Premier League.[28]
SELR I think you will find before your post I clearly state that the 5 yrs of age scenario
Only if those young players want to go - as minors they cannot be legally held to any contract they sign. So there is nothing that the the FA can do regardless of what laws they impose. In theory it ought to be legally possible for clubs with Tier Two academies to poach players from Tier One academies, but that hasn't been tried yet - the basis for that argument is that the laws of the land trump any laws/rules imposed by the FA. I doubt that many clubs would be brave enough to try it on though as the FA subsidise the academies.
Despite winning two competitions last year our academy only lost one player. The risk any young player takes is in going to a prem club with a Tier One academy and maybe getting lost in their system and finding that the route to the first team is being blocked by somone with dozens of caps and a few medals in the cabinet. But there'll always be those who take the money/think that the Prem club will offer them a better opportunity, however in practice the evidence suggests that most will prefer to see out their footballing education at Charlton. Whether that is the case at other clubs depends on the quality of coaching that they are receiving. As long as we can offer a high standard of coaching and first team opportunities then I think we'll retain most of our academy players.
I imagine, like most things, the rules have got drastically more complicated and help keep a plethora of bureaucrats employed at UEFA, FIFA and the various national FAs.
Carly the coaching at top levels may be good enough but it is not at grass roots and there should be more done for there to be more free courses for people that give up their spare time to coach kids, not just level one but two and three and reduction in costs for the next stages
Do think making rulings of English participation in first-teams will be open to abuse by top teams and their lawyers. For example Premiership teams sometimes loan out players without work permits to Spanish or Italian clubs until they gain EU nationality and able to play in England.
Cock-a-doodle-do
I gave up the kids coaching this season.
Dyke opposes it, but if you are serious about bringing through English talent, one thing you have to have is quotas. premiership clubs will never care about the England team!
Grass roots coaching is stuck in the 80s in too many cases - play 11 a side as early as possible in full size goals. My son is 12 and moving to 11 a-side this season on a pitch that isn't much smaller than full size. The 80s coaches can't wait...2 years too early!!!! But you have to understand why pitches need to be proportionate!
Lots on pressure on the next manager or two if Dyke wants success in 2022!
Watching the u-21's, beherino up front. Says it all.
We won't win Jack until we start producing a few top level strikers.
By the way they are shocking. Well done appointing Gareth Southgate.
THE man who gave us Roland Rat. The chairman whose club went into administration two months after he took charge. career FA “blazer” on record as being resistant to change. A player described as a “liability” by his manager.
Somebody sacked by the FA for his views on disabled people. The man charged with answering exactly the same problem 16 years ago. At least on the plus side football-wise, there is also somebody who has produced a stream of top-quality players for nearly three decades and a player once described by Johan Cruyff as the new Marco van Basten.
I give you Greg Dyke, Greg Clarke, Roger Burden, Danny Mills, Glenn Hoddle, Howard Wilkinson, Dario Gradi and, believe it or not, Chesterfield striker Ritchie Humphreys.
''Danny Mills wrote a very interesting paper and gave it to us – very interesting ideas.”
As part of this the home nations opted out of the residency rule (5+ years after the age of 18)
Thats what I have been led to believe on the matter anyway - could be very factually incorrect!
I listened to Glenn Hoddle and Neil Warnock chatting on the Alan Brazil Breakfast Show on Talk Sport this morning, absolutely fascinating stuff. Hoddle has experience of how Europe does things, and runs his own academy in Spain for players released by pro clubs. He supports quotas, recognises that developing a sense of competition is still important whilst developing kids' technique, and importantly acknowledges that this is a long term project.
I think the commission itself is a mixed bag. Alongside Hoddle, you have Howard Wilkinson and Dario Gradi - who has achieved miracles with his youth development approach - who I think are brilliant choices. I'm surprised that there's no involvement from Southampton's academy, particularly Les Reed, because they really are doing something special there. If Mills has some ideas that would help move Dyke's vision along then why not involve him? Although I do have sympathy with Lineker's view on the rest.
Interestingly, Warnock (who's excellent value as a pundit by the way) suggested that they should have included supporter representation. Sol Campbell, whose presentation is about as classy as his transfer handling, might have a point about the lack of any black faces. Andy Ansah might have been an interesting addition, for example.
It's criminal that the Premier League have decided not to be represented. This might actually play into Dyke's hand, which he very nearly acknowledges.
More worrying was the noise from Galatasaray in the week, about how a Euro super league - to replace domestic competition for Europe's top 20 clubs - was inevitable before 2018.