@SomervilleAddick if you're in NYC, then a trip to Other Half is a must....genuinely one of the best and most consistent breweries in the world. I try and bring a suitcase home with me each time I visit...almost impossible to get here unless they do a collab (just revisited one with Cloudwater - 'Tremendous Ideas DIPA')...just heavenly stuff...
What is the difference between a real ale brewed by a small independent and a craft beer? Apologies if I have asked this before, but I suspect it's just marketing nonsense - happy to be proved wrong if someone can define it for me.
@Saga Lout technically there is no difference... 'craft' is the (US originating) term given to a brewery that produces less than 5m units a year (I think that was the number given - at least in the US, so that Sam Adams could still be called 'craft')...but generally/in marketing speak, 'craft' usually refers to something that's either keg or can, is a 're-working' of a traditional beer such as a stout, IPA, Pale Ale etc, is (usually) served cold and is brewed by 2 blokes and a dog and has an 'I gave up my high flying city career to make beer that people want to drink' back story behind it... So, in reality, any small brewery is 'craft' (the idea being that you can trace back each bottle/can/pint you produce) but the term has taken on a new meaning and moved away from real ale breweries, who tend to produce only in the barrel and wouldn't dream of making something with even a hint of carbonation/that is served 'chilled'...
Real ale is naturally carbonated and served chilled, 12c and that is cold. The notion that real ale is warm and flat is a myth or you've just drunk in crap pubs.
@Saga Lout technically there is no difference... 'craft' is the (US originating) term given to a brewery that produces less than 5m units a year (I think that was the number given - at least in the US, so that Sam Adams could still be called 'craft')...but generally/in marketing speak, 'craft' usually refers to something that's either keg or can, is a 're-working' of a traditional beer such as a stout, IPA, Pale Ale etc, is (usually) served cold and is brewed by 2 blokes and a dog and has an 'I gave up my high flying city career to make beer that people want to drink' back story behind it... So, in reality, any small brewery is 'craft' (the idea being that you can trace back each bottle/can/pint you produce) but the term has taken on a new meaning and moved away from real ale breweries, who tend to produce only in the barrel and wouldn't dream of making something with even a hint of carbonation/that is served 'chilled'...
Thanks. Love the bit about the back story, high flying city type - I've certainly heard a few of those!
As a life-long Camra member and occasional home-brewer, I must add that @Riviera is absolutely right.
@Riviera I've drunk in your pub and the River Ale House is my local and am in there once a week or so......I thought they were both OK but if you say otherwise....;-)
Maybe I should have said 'very cold' then......and 'natural carbonation' is nothing like the 'juiced up' liquid pouring from kegs....
Real ale is naturally carbonated and served chilled, 12c and that is cold. The notion that real ale is warm and flat is a myth or you've just drunk in crap pubs.
@Riviera I've drunk in your pub and the River Ale House is my local and am in there once a week or so......I thought they were both OK but if you say otherwise....;-)
Maybe I should have said 'very cold' then......and 'natural carbonation' is nothing like the 'juiced up' liquid pouring from kegs....
You said no hint of carbonation. If there is no fizz on your tongue take it back.
Much as it galls me to praise the cantankerous old git that is our dear old @Riviera I have to say he keeps an excellent pint and I often wished I lived closer so that I could sample his wares more often than I am able.
To me I tend to class "Craft Ale" in the UK as beer produced by a small independent (or independentish) brewery that's interesting and tasty, but isn't necessarily real ale (i.e. cask or bottle conditioned ale) and isn't aimed at CAMRA "diehards", but at a younger, more hip clientele. Hipster beards, rather than geography teacher beards etc
I don't mind craft ales though sometimes they can be a bit one dimensional, why make a hoppy IPA when you can make a REALLY hoppy IPA that numbs your taste buds of any other flavours. They often tend to be quite strong too, rather than session drinks.
I'm pleased to say that the Czechs, who know a bit about beer, remain highly suspicious of the term "craft" beer. They prefer to talk about "beer from small breweries" and these breweries in turn are tending to stick to relatively modest twists on tried and tested beer types. In other words, the size of brewery, and relatively conservative approach to "innovation", whose English equivalent are the sort of beers to be found in @Riviera fine establishment. Sometimes when I read of the flavours of beers described on here I can't help but feel that somebody is taking the piss.
Anyway talking of taking the piss, with some trepidation I would like to open up a discussion on non-alcohol beers. Up until now, I have treated them all with contempt, and would rather order sparkling water. However my holiday on the German coast, where some fine breweries lurk, took an unexpected turn when a doctor diagnosed the strange boil on my bum as a tic-bite and immediately put me on heavy duty anti-biotics, with an associated warning about drinking alcohol.
As it happens I had recently read this article in the Guardian about how one of my favourite German breweries, Stortebeker, was doing very well with no-alcohol beers, and they had produced a NA version of their Atlantic Ale, which is one of my favourites (even if I think it is misnamed, as it has the colour and taste of a continental IPA, not at all what we call an "ale"). So I tried the NA version and have to say it is great. A beer I can drink on its own merit. Unfortunately as yet I haven't found any other to match it. Jever Fun turned out to be not bad. But Bitburger 0.0%..dire. But then so is the normal Bitburger.
I found that article interesting in how it describes the two different approaches to brewing a no-alcohol brew. The other thing I have found (because the doctor didn't exactly say no alcohol, just to be very sparing), is that if you order a normal beer after drinking a couple of NA beers, the normal one seems to have a funny taste, namely the alcohol.
Anyone else got any observations on NA beers, anybody got any that they would actively choose to drink on merit?
I wish you could as well @LenGlover. I'd love to bar you!
Was chatting to a friend yesterday...lived in Eltham as I did (98-2005) and I told him about your place and he asked me how you could open a bar in that particular part of Eltham as he thought that there was a by-law that stated that no establishment selling alchol was allowed in the area.
Anyway talking of taking the piss, with some trepidation I would like to open up a discussion on non-alcohol beers. Up until now, I have treated them all with contempt, and would rather order sparkling water. However my holiday on the German coast, where some fine breweries lurk, took an unexpected turn when a doctor diagnosed the strange boil on my bum as a tic-bite and immediately put me on heavy duty anti-biotics, with an associated warning about drinking alcohol.
As it happens I had recently read this article in the Guardian about how one of my favourite German breweries, Stortebeker, was doing very well with no-alcohol beers, and they had produced a NA version of their Atlantic Ale, which is one of my favourites (even if I think it is misnamed, as it has the colour and taste of a continental IPA, not at all what we call an "ale"). So I tried the NA version and have to say it is great. A beer I can drink on its own merit. Unfortunately as yet I haven't found any other to match it. Jever Fun turned out to be not bad. But Bitburger 0.0%..dire. But then so is the normal Bitburger.
I found that article interesting in how it describes the two different approaches to brewing a no-alcohol brew. The other thing I have found (because the doctor didn't exactly say no alcohol, just to be very sparing), is that if you order a normal beer after drinking a couple of NA beers, the normal one seems to have a funny taste, namely the alcohol.
Anyone else got any observations on NA beers, anybody got any that they would actively choose to drink on merit?
Never tried it but a mate of mine likes Heineken Blue.
Anyway talking of taking the piss, with some trepidation I would like to open up a discussion on non-alcohol beers. Up until now, I have treated them all with contempt, and would rather order sparkling water. However my holiday on the German coast, where some fine breweries lurk, took an unexpected turn when a doctor diagnosed the strange boil on my bum as a tic-bite and immediately put me on heavy duty anti-biotics, with an associated warning about drinking alcohol.
As it happens I had recently read this article in the Guardian about how one of my favourite German breweries, Stortebeker, was doing very well with no-alcohol beers, and they had produced a NA version of their Atlantic Ale, which is one of my favourites (even if I think it is misnamed, as it has the colour and taste of a continental IPA, not at all what we call an "ale"). So I tried the NA version and have to say it is great. A beer I can drink on its own merit. Unfortunately as yet I haven't found any other to match it. Jever Fun turned out to be not bad. But Bitburger 0.0%..dire. But then so is the normal Bitburger.
I found that article interesting in how it describes the two different approaches to brewing a no-alcohol brew. The other thing I have found (because the doctor didn't exactly say no alcohol, just to be very sparing), is that if you order a normal beer after drinking a couple of NA beers, the normal one seems to have a funny taste, namely the alcohol.
Anyone else got any observations on NA beers, anybody got any that they would actively choose to drink on merit?
I tried Fosters once, I did not think too much of it.
Brewdog Nanny State is an excellent Zero beer as is Infinite Session IPA.
Cheers.
Nanny State is actually carried by my specialist Prague beershop but they want £2.61 equiv for a 33cl. bottle, whereas they have the other Stortebeker NA beer for £1.37 for a half litre bottle. Screw that. For comparison, a half litre bottle of Pilsner Urquell goes for £0.88 ! Expensive business, going alcohol-free...
I wish you could as well @LenGlover. I'd love to bar you!
Was chatting to a friend yesterday...lived in Eltham as I did (98-2005) and I told him about your place and he asked me how you could open a bar in that particular part of Eltham as he thought that there was a by-law that stated that no establishment selling alcohol was allowed in the area.
The 2003 Licencing Act changed everything. Licences used to be granted by the local magistrate, he would take into account such things as restrictive covenants like what still exists on Eltham Park. The government moved licencing to the local authority (Royal Greenwich) who set up licencing departments. They also streamlined the opposition process. They introduced the Four Licencing Objectives that any potential licencee had to prove he would adhere to.
the prevention of crime and disorder.
public safety.
the prevention of public nuisance.
the protection of children from harm If you satisfied the department that you could uphold these then you get a licence, as long as the police do not object (they have a veto).
So any objections had to fall into one of those categories and old covenants do not. Restrictive covenants are also not considered for planning permission under the 1992 Town & Country Planning Act.
Heard very good thing about Big Drop NA beers Prague, they even have a stout. Haven't tried them myself yet though.
Nanny State is the best I've tried, though Heineken and Becks NA are ok in that they taste of slightly rubbish lager in the same way the alcoholic ones do.
Tried St Peters Without at one point as I love their beers. Disgusting.
Any remember Kaliber? Remember going to the Berni Inn for my mates 10th birthday and getting one like I was the the godammed Mackdaddy. Thought I was going to chuck. Should have put me off beer for life (it didn't)
I've tried the non alcoholic beers and none, Nanny State included have made me willing to give them any more than a try to say I've tried them.
I'll continue to try them but to be honest alcohol content and the nice relaxing effect alcohol in beer has is part of the taste of having a beer. I really like most of the brewdog beers I've tried especially Vagabond the gluten free one and elvis juice which is dangerously moorish and on it's own made my decision to invest in them
I tried a non alcoholic cider once, one of the trendier brands like rekorderlik or aspalls and thought I was going to be sick, it was pure fruity sugar, almost syrup and I couldn't even tell you what fruit it was built upon it was that overpowering. Any benefit from losing the alcohol was lost by the dehydrating effect that had on me.
Comments
As a life-long Camra member and occasional home-brewer, I must add that @Riviera is absolutely right.
Maybe I should have said 'very cold' then......and 'natural carbonation' is nothing like the 'juiced up' liquid pouring from kegs....
I don't mind craft ales though sometimes they can be a bit one dimensional, why make a hoppy IPA when you can make a REALLY hoppy IPA that numbs your taste buds of any other flavours. They often tend to be quite strong too, rather than session drinks.
As it happens I had recently read this article in the Guardian about how one of my favourite German breweries, Stortebeker, was doing very well with no-alcohol beers, and they had produced a NA version of their Atlantic Ale, which is one of my favourites (even if I think it is misnamed, as it has the colour and taste of a continental IPA, not at all what we call an "ale"). So I tried the NA version and have to say it is great. A beer I can drink on its own merit. Unfortunately as yet I haven't found any other to match it. Jever Fun turned out to be not bad. But Bitburger 0.0%..dire. But then so is the normal Bitburger.
I found that article interesting in how it describes the two different approaches to brewing a no-alcohol brew. The other thing I have found (because the doctor didn't exactly say no alcohol, just to be very sparing), is that if you order a normal beer after drinking a couple of NA beers, the normal one seems to have a funny taste, namely the alcohol.
Anyone else got any observations on NA beers, anybody got any that they would actively choose to drink on merit?
Nanny State is actually carried by my specialist Prague beershop but they want £2.61 equiv for a 33cl. bottle, whereas they have the other Stortebeker NA beer for £1.37 for a half litre bottle. Screw that. For comparison, a half litre bottle of Pilsner Urquell goes for £0.88 ! Expensive business, going alcohol-free...
Nanny State is the best I've tried, though Heineken and Becks NA are ok in that they taste of slightly rubbish lager in the same way the alcoholic ones do.
Tried St Peters Without at one point as I love their beers. Disgusting.
I've tried the non alcoholic beers and none, Nanny State included have made me willing to give them any more than a try to say I've tried them.
I'll continue to try them but to be honest alcohol content and the nice relaxing effect alcohol in beer has is part of the taste of having a beer. I really like most of the brewdog beers I've tried especially Vagabond the gluten free one and elvis juice which is dangerously moorish and on it's own made my decision to invest in them
I tried a non alcoholic cider once, one of the trendier brands like rekorderlik or aspalls and thought I was going to be sick, it was pure fruity sugar, almost syrup and I couldn't even tell you what fruit it was built upon it was that overpowering. Any benefit from losing the alcohol was lost by the dehydrating effect that had on me.