The thing is Ormiston, I don't get paid for travelling time. That's all done in my time, not works. So I would be doing the same hours or, far more likely, doing longer hours for a big drop in salary.
I fully agree that losing that commute would be a very nice thing, but not sure why my employer should benefit to that extent (20%), when I am still expected to produce the same output for them - and building on that every year, as we do now. There would certainly be possibilities opening up for businesses, who could downsize premises and reduce costs from heating, lighting, facilities, communications and dilaps going forward. I'd see that as benefit enough for the employer.
Fair enough, its a tricky issue and, like I say, nobody wants a pay cut!
But, having worked from home myself, I can say that there are big benefits, especially if you have a young family.
Worked from home since 96, normal for me these days. Discipline is crucial, and you develop it over time. Never shave, putting on a shirt is a novelty, dressing gown at 4pm happens a lot. But, get a lot done, go into the office from time to time and think "what a waste of time the commute is, and please stop interrupting me whilst I am trying to work" Plus the fact I got an en suite khasi in the office, now that cant be beaten.
There would certainly be possibilities opening up for businesses, who could downsize premises and reduce costs from heating, lighting, facilities, communications and dilaps going forward. I'd see that as benefit enough for the employer.
Totally agree. The cost saving for purely not having to accommodate one person in the building should be sufficient without imposing a 20% salary reduction. I sit on a trading floor and I have heard that it costs well over £100k per year just to accommodate one person! I am not in Sales or Trading and could perform my role from home with the odd visit to the City for meetings etc. and if it wasn't for the large salary reduction I would consider this if it ever got off the ground but not an option for me on those terms.
The thought of not having to suffer at the hands of Southeastern almost everyday is tempting though!
This is a very interesting discussion, now, nobody wants to take a 15%-20% salary cut obviously BUT you have to look at the bigger picture here.
Many people living outside London (outer Kent, Sussex, Essex) will be paying 3,000 quid + PA for their travel - and that's not taking into account things like parking fees at train stations, bus fares to stations and so on - so working from home would be a big saver.
In addition, I reckon most folks - even those living in places like my old hamlet of New Eltham - would be spending about 2.5/3 hours per day travelling to/from work, I used to leave my house at 7.45 to get to work for 9.00.
That means you are spending between 12-15 hours per week simply travelling to/from work - that's a LOT of time - so if you were working from home you suddenly get a lot more time to either spend doing your actual job or having time to pursue your own interests.
Finally, a genuine WFH model would allow people to move right away from London into cheaper areas of the country - Norfolk for example - and have a much higher quality of life and buy a bigger house and so on - meaning their salary cut would not be so painful.
A lot of this depends on quality broadband being in place outside London to enable people to work from home efficiently and that is - at least in part - being done by BT at the moment but there is a long way to go.
Who will pay for your "home office"? That spare bedroom or study is not costs free, most will pay for broadband but what about heating lighting etc.. In my experience companies are reluctant to pay for things such as chairs or floor mats. They save on office space and the rent and other costs therein and you end up footing that bill.
On another note, do not underestimate the affect long periods of isolation will have on you and your health, especially where good communication or team work are required for progress of a project and where stress is a factor. Good vertical (up and down from and to management) and horizontal (with team mates/members) communication are an essential part of home working, as are alternative practices, plan for what will you do if you start to struggle? If you have already developed a relationship with other team members then that will have to be maintained but what if there is no ongoing relationship, this is difficult to build from home.
This is a very interesting discussion, now, nobody wants to take a 15%-20% salary cut obviously BUT you have to look at the bigger picture here.
Many people living outside London (outer Kent, Sussex, Essex) will be paying 3,000 quid + PA for their travel - and that's not taking into account things like parking fees at train stations, bus fares to stations and so on - so working from home would be a big saver.
In addition, I reckon most folks - even those living in places like my old hamlet of New Eltham - would be spending about 2.5/3 hours per day travelling to/from work, I used to leave my house at 7.45 to get to work for 9.00.
That means you are spending between 12-15 hours per week simply travelling to/from work - that's a LOT of time - so if you were working from home you suddenly get a lot more time to either spend doing your actual job or having time to pursue your own interests.
Finally, a genuine WFH model would allow people to move right away from London into cheaper areas of the country - Norfolk for example - and have a much higher quality of life and buy a bigger house and so on - meaning their salary cut would not be so painful.
A lot of this depends on quality broadband being in place outside London to enable people to work from home efficiently and that is - at least in part - being done by BT at the moment but there is a long way to go.
I would definitely take a £3k hit on my wages if it meant I didn't have to give £3k to Southern/ SWT.
This is a very interesting discussion, now, nobody wants to take a 15%-20% salary cut obviously BUT you have to look at the bigger picture here.
Many people living outside London (outer Kent, Sussex, Essex) will be paying 3,000 quid + PA for their travel - and that's not taking into account things like parking fees at train stations, bus fares to stations and so on - so working from home would be a big saver.
In addition, I reckon most folks - even those living in places like my old hamlet of New Eltham - would be spending about 2.5/3 hours per day travelling to/from work, I used to leave my house at 7.45 to get to work for 9.00.
That means you are spending between 12-15 hours per week simply travelling to/from work - that's a LOT of time - so if you were working from home you suddenly get a lot more time to either spend doing your actual job or having time to pursue your own interests.
Finally, a genuine WFH model would allow people to move right away from London into cheaper areas of the country - Norfolk for example - and have a much higher quality of life and buy a bigger house and so on - meaning their salary cut would not be so painful.
A lot of this depends on quality broadband being in place outside London to enable people to work from home efficiently and that is - at least in part - being done by BT at the moment but there is a long way to go.
Good vertical (up and down from and to management) and horizontal (with team mates/members) communication...
Screw it - I'd take a £3k pay cut to never deal with that kind of talk again.
Wells Fargo has conducted a rash of sackings in recent weeks after claims some of its employees were faking keyboard activity to fool the firm into thinking they were working.
America's third largest bank disclosed the decisions in broker filings with the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (Finra).
The firm did not respond to questions about how the alleged issue was discovered, or whether it was related to remote work.
New rules came into effect in the US this month that mean offices that brokers are using to work from home need to be inspected every three years.
"Wells Fargo holds employees to the highest standards and does not tolerate unethical behaviour," spokeswoman Laurie Kight said in a statement.
Some large companies have been using increasingly sophisticated tools to monitor employees since remote work expanded during the Covid pandemic.
Such services can track keystrokes and eye movements, take screenshots and log which websites are visited.
But tech has also evolved to evade the surveillance , including so-called "mouse jigglers", aimed at making computers appear to be in active use, which are widely available.
According to Amazon, where they can be found for less than $10, thousands have been sold in the last month.
Never heard of a Mouse Jiggler - Might have to go and get one now, only 5.99 on Amazon... Result
To be honest sounds like a good Company not to work for. If my Employer cant trust me, then I wont trust them back
Always been the way in Investment Banking. The big banks at Canary Wharf used to have sensors under desks to track when you were there, and claimed it was fire safety.
Wells Fargo has conducted a rash of sackings in recent weeks after claims some of its employees were faking keyboard activity to fool the firm into thinking they were working.
America's third largest bank disclosed the decisions in broker filings with the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (Finra).
The firm did not respond to questions about how the alleged issue was discovered, or whether it was related to remote work.
New rules came into effect in the US this month that mean offices that brokers are using to work from home need to be inspected every three years.
"Wells Fargo holds employees to the highest standards and does not tolerate unethical behaviour," spokeswoman Laurie Kight said in a statement.
Some large companies have been using increasingly sophisticated tools to monitor employees since remote work expanded during the Covid pandemic.
Such services can track keystrokes and eye movements, take screenshots and log which websites are visited.
But tech has also evolved to evade the surveillance , including so-called "mouse jigglers", aimed at making computers appear to be in active use, which are widely available.
According to Amazon, where they can be found for less than $10, thousands have been sold in the last month.
I reckon this 'practice' is VERY wide spread or you can get the wife or children to jiggle the mouse now and then whilst you're dahn the boozer or the golf club
Wells Fargo has conducted a rash of sackings in recent weeks after claims some of its employees were faking keyboard activity to fool the firm into thinking they were working.
America's third largest bank disclosed the decisions in broker filings with the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (Finra).
The firm did not respond to questions about how the alleged issue was discovered, or whether it was related to remote work.
New rules came into effect in the US this month that mean offices that brokers are using to work from home need to be inspected every three years.
"Wells Fargo holds employees to the highest standards and does not tolerate unethical behaviour," spokeswoman Laurie Kight said in a statement.
Some large companies have been using increasingly sophisticated tools to monitor employees since remote work expanded during the Covid pandemic.
Such services can track keystrokes and eye movements, take screenshots and log which websites are visited.
But tech has also evolved to evade the surveillance , including so-called "mouse jigglers", aimed at making computers appear to be in active use, which are widely available.
According to Amazon, where they can be found for less than $10, thousands have been sold in the last month.
I reckon this 'practice' is VERY wide spread or you can get the wife or children to jiggle the mouse now and then whilst you're dahn the boozer or the golf club
If you're not getting your work done, that will be the thing that determines whether you are working.
Never heard of a Mouse Jiggler - Might have to go and get one now, only 5.99 on Amazon... Result
To be honest sounds like a good Company not to work for. If my Employer cant trust me, then I wont trust them back
My old boss had a great attitude - he only focussed on the work getting done. Didn't bother with the presentee thing. He wanted us to be responsible for our output and think about what it took to make it happen. I worked around the clock for him cos of that.
I have one employee now, and he works from home in Southampton. And while a big part of me wants to check up on him a lot, I am trying to do the same as my old boss - I give some parameters for delivery and he hits his deadlines and all is good. Maybe if I rode him a bit more I could squeeze more out of him, but I think morale would be lower, he would want more money and our relationship wouldn't be as strong.
Never heard of a Mouse Jiggler - Might have to go and get one now, only 5.99 on Amazon... Result
To be honest sounds like a good Company not to work for. If my Employer cant trust me, then I wont trust them back
My old boss had a great attitude - he only focussed on the work getting done. Didn't bother with the presentee thing. He wanted us to be responsible for our output and think about what it took to make it happen. I worked around the clock for him cos of that.
I have one employee now, and he works from home in Southampton. And while a big part of me wants to check up on him a lot, I am trying to do the same as my old boss - I give some parameters for delivery and he hits his deadlines and all is good. Maybe if I rode him a bit more I could squeeze more out of him, but I think morale would be lower, he would want more money and our relationship wouldn't be as strong.
Never heard of a Mouse Jiggler - Might have to go and get one now, only 5.99 on Amazon... Result
To be honest sounds like a good Company not to work for. If my Employer cant trust me, then I wont trust them back
My old boss had a great attitude - he only focussed on the work getting done. Didn't bother with the presentee thing. He wanted us to be responsible for our output and think about what it took to make it happen. I worked around the clock for him cos of that.
I have one employee now, and he works from home in Southampton. And while a big part of me wants to check up on him a lot, I am trying to do the same as my old boss - I give some parameters for delivery and he hits his deadlines and all is good. Maybe if I rode him a bit more I could squeeze more out of him, but I think morale would be lower, he would want more money and our relationship wouldn't be as strong.
Never heard of a Mouse Jiggler - Might have to go and get one now, only 5.99 on Amazon... Result
To be honest sounds like a good Company not to work for. If my Employer cant trust me, then I wont trust them back
My old boss had a great attitude - he only focussed on the work getting done. Didn't bother with the presentee thing. He wanted us to be responsible for our output and think about what it took to make it happen. I worked around the clock for him cos of that.
I have one employee now, and he works from home in Southampton. And while a big part of me wants to check up on him a lot, I am trying to do the same as my old boss - I give some parameters for delivery and he hits his deadlines and all is good. Maybe if I rode him a bit more I could squeeze more out of him, but I think morale would be lower, he would want more money and our relationship wouldn't be as strong.
Yeah that Manager you had, had the right attitude... There are going to be cases where there genuinely is no work to be done, as its partly up to the Manager to keep their staff busy. If that can't be achieved, because the industry is quiet, what does the individual do... Just sit bored out of their arse, moving their mouse around waiting for an email, a sliver of work to come through?
If people are shirking work with mouse jigglers - Missing deadlines through laziness, then yeah that's where there would be trust issues
I know several friends that use mouse jigglers. A mate of mine brags that he works a 20 hour week on average, has been promoted twice in the past two years as well.
Funny really, because he is clearly incredibly highly rated in his business, his output is amazing.
Since going back into the office 3 days a week, he said he has managed to do all his week's work in those 3 days, and then on Monday and Friday just uses a mouse jiggler.
If you are good at managing your manager, and do a role that few others in the business understand, you really can take the piss, I hear
I've got to say of there really exists jobs where you need to do something like that then one way or another those people were always going to lose their job. The best bosses I've had are ones who support the job and knock. "Keep your phone on but once the work is done you can fuck off"
Trackers on vehicles nearly killed that as people would essentially do the same as the mouse jugglers and sit onsite, thankfully the good managers would make the time to know their people, who could be trusted and who needed intense supervision.
I've got to say of there really exists jobs where you need to do something like that then one way or another those people were always going to lose their job. The best bosses I've had are ones who support the job and knock. "Keep your phone on but once the work is done you can fuck off"
Trackers on vehicles nearly killed that as people would essentially do the same as the mouse jugglers and sit onsite, thankfully the good managers would make the time to know their people, who could be trusted and who needed intense supervision.
I've never worked anywhere where I can say "the work is done". I think most people live in a world with a never ending mountain of things to be done and they just do their best and get on with.
Never heard of a Mouse Jiggler - Might have to go and get one now, only 5.99 on Amazon... Result
To be honest sounds like a good Company not to work for. If my Employer cant trust me, then I wont trust them back
Maybe but if their staff are using mouse jigglers then they don't deserve to be trusted.
That’s true, but it really always comes back to a management problem - if you don’t trust your staff to do the work required, then management hired the wrong people. Hire the right people, set them clear objectives and you’ll probably get more out of them than by micro managing and watching over them. My objective for my staff was always that they thought for themselves and could clearly explain the solutions to the problems set. In 27 years of hiring, I think I only had one real dud I needed to get rid off.
I've got to say of there really exists jobs where you need to do something like that then one way or another those people were always going to lose their job. The best bosses I've had are ones who support the job and knock. "Keep your phone on but once the work is done you can fuck off"
Trackers on vehicles nearly killed that as people would essentially do the same as the mouse jugglers and sit onsite, thankfully the good managers would make the time to know their people, who could be trusted and who needed intense supervision.
I've never worked anywhere where I can say "the work is done". I think most people live in a world with a never ending mountain of things to be done and they just do their best and get on with.
Me neither, a days work maybe but you can always find something that hasn't been done and needs doing. Not to say I begrudge anyone being set a target, hitting that target and being given the holy "you can fuck off home now"
80% of my work is remote given it's mostly with clients in the USA and I'm based in Australia. Everything is output based with clear deadlines. So long as I meet them my employer is happy to continue. COVID definitely accelerated the working remote model in my opinion.
Our son has worked from home for the last couple of years, garage conversion into an office to house all his equipment, works well for him, we'll probably end up moving out as we're thinking of a moving in a couple of years.
Comments
But, having worked from home myself, I can say that there are big benefits, especially if you have a young family.
But, get a lot done, go into the office from time to time and think "what a waste of time the commute is, and please stop interrupting me whilst I am trying to work" Plus the fact I got an en suite khasi in the office, now that cant be beaten.
The thought of not having to suffer at the hands of Southeastern almost everyday is tempting though!
On another note, do not underestimate the affect long periods of isolation will have on you and your health, especially where good communication or team work are required for progress of a project and where stress is a factor. Good vertical (up and down from and to management) and horizontal (with team mates/members) communication are an essential part of home working, as are alternative practices, plan for what will you do if you start to struggle? If you have already developed a relationship with other team members then that will have to be maintained but what if there is no ongoing relationship, this is difficult to build from home.
Good vertical (up and down from and to management) and horizontal (with team mates/members) communication...
Screw it - I'd take a £3k pay cut to never deal with that kind of talk again.
Don't think your'e singing from the same hymn sheet.
Mouse jigglers pretending to work fired by bank
Wells Fargo has conducted a rash of sackings in recent weeks after claims some of its employees were faking keyboard activity to fool the firm into thinking they were working.
America's third largest bank disclosed the decisions in broker filings with the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (Finra).
The firm did not respond to questions about how the alleged issue was discovered, or whether it was related to remote work.
New rules came into effect in the US this month that mean offices that brokers are using to work from home need to be inspected every three years.
"Wells Fargo holds employees to the highest standards and does not tolerate unethical behaviour," spokeswoman Laurie Kight said in a statement.
Some large companies have been using increasingly sophisticated tools to monitor employees since remote work expanded during the Covid pandemic.
Such services can track keystrokes and eye movements, take screenshots and log which websites are visited.
But tech has also evolved to evade the surveillance , including so-called "mouse jigglers", aimed at making computers appear to be in active use, which are widely available.
According to Amazon, where they can be found for less than $10, thousands have been sold in the last month.
To be honest sounds like a good Company not to work for. If my Employer cant trust me, then I wont trust them back
I have one employee now, and he works from home in Southampton. And while a big part of me wants to check up on him a lot, I am trying to do the same as my old boss - I give some parameters for delivery and he hits his deadlines and all is good. Maybe if I rode him a bit more I could squeeze more out of him, but I think morale would be lower, he would want more money and our relationship wouldn't be as strong.
Maybe but if their staff are using mouse jigglers then they don't deserve to be trusted.
If people are shirking work with mouse jigglers - Missing deadlines through laziness, then yeah that's where there would be trust issues
Funny really, because he is clearly incredibly highly rated in his business, his output is amazing.
Since going back into the office 3 days a week, he said he has managed to do all his week's work in those 3 days, and then on Monday and Friday just uses a mouse jiggler.
If you are good at managing your manager, and do a role that few others in the business understand, you really can take the piss, I hear
Trackers on vehicles nearly killed that as people would essentially do the same as the mouse jugglers and sit onsite, thankfully the good managers would make the time to know their people, who could be trusted and who needed intense supervision.
Havent missed a single game of the Euros, absolute top result