Just been announced that Cameron is skipping PMQs to go campaigning in Scotland. Oh well that's another couple of percent for the yes campaign then.
Cameron, Clegg and Milliband are all going to Scotland tomorrow.
Someone's worked out that every time Ed Miliband crossed the border from South to North, the No vote has suffered in the polls.
Maybe someone needs to take him to one side and politely advise him that he's about as likeable as a brick that's been thrown through your window that has an overdue gas bill attached to it.
What, and you think the solution is to send David Cameron? A bloke less 'toxic' to the average Scot you'll struggle to find.
I raise you George Gideon Oliver Osborne.
Might be on to something there, maybe not the best time to send a Baronet in waiting up there.
Just been announced that Cameron is skipping PMQs to go campaigning in Scotland. Oh well that's another couple of percent for the yes campaign then.
Cameron, Clegg and Milliband are all going to Scotland tomorrow.
Someone's worked out that every time Ed Miliband crossed the border from South to North, the No vote has suffered in the polls.
Maybe someone needs to take him to one side and politely advise him that he's about as likeable as a brick that's been thrown through your window that has an overdue gas bill attached to it.
What, and you think the solution is to send David Cameron? A bloke less 'toxic' to the average Scot you'll struggle to find.
He is at least Scots himself.
Not everyone is as tribally blinkered
Nope, not getting your point.
That you are being influenced by your dislike for an individual / party than the fact that the Prime Minister of the UK, and that of Scottish parentage and ancestry is campaigning to save the UK.
Not really. It was a response to Fiiish's ongoing attempt to disproportionately lay the blame for the narrowing of the polls at Labours door rather than the government and particularly David Cameron for offering the thing in the first place.
I like (actually meaning I dislike) the way a chap on TV said they were fed up of Conservative governments imposed on them by the English, this being just after fifteen years of the country being run into the ground by Labour party Scots.
Some of the rhetoric is making me feel quite anti Scottish which I assure you is not the norm. I do hope that if they vote to leave, they are treated just like any other international competitor. I for one will not accept a currency union with the Scots, if they want to leave the UK then leave they can but don't expect any favours from us. I hear that the tactic is to refuse to take on any of the UK debt unless a currency union is agreed. I just say ok then, we'll just take the oil instead send the army to take over the rigs and shut them down if necessary.
Once this silly vote is over, if they agree to stay in the UK I'd like to see the football leagues dismantled and replaced by one structure. One international football rugby and cricket team. No more calling Scotland a country when clearly it is just a region like Normandy, Bretton, Saxony and Swabia are in their respective COUNTRIES.
I like (actually meaning I dislike) the way a chap on TV said they were fed up of Conservative governments imposed on them by the English, this being just after fifteen years of the country being run into the ground by Labour party Scots.
Some of the rhetoric is making me feel quite anti Scottish which I assure you is not the norm. I do hope that if they vote to leave, they are treated just like any other international competitor. I for one will not accept a currency union with the Scots, if they want to leave the UK then leave they can but don't expect any favours from us. I hear that the tactic is to refuse to take on any of the UK debt unless a currency union is agreed. I just say ok then, we'll just take the oil instead send the army to take over the rigs and shut them down if necessary.
Once this silly vote is over, if they agree to stay in the UK I'd like to see the football leagues dismantled and replaced by one structure. One international football rugby and cricket team. No more calling Scotland a country when clearly it is just a region like Normandy, Bretton, Saxony and Swabia are in their respective COUNTRIES.
I think you have forgotten to take your tablets tonight.
So what does the leader of the Conservative and Unionist Party do if he looses?
Also a yes will mean general elections in 2015 and 2016, first one with the Scots second an English and Scottish only affair.
There's a strong chance that should the Scots vote Yes then the GE will be pushed back to 2016.
No chance IMO. This government is already 'over' the more usual 4 year term and this would require a change in the law IIRC as the fixed term is a max of 5 with the dates already set. It would be also be incredibly undemocratic to 'award' themselves an extra year full stop, let alone on the basis of a policy that they pushed through that had led to such a massive mess.
Even in the event of a Yes vote there is no way on earth the practicalities will be resolved by 2016 so there's no justification for delaying any election on that basis.
We saw the effect of just a slight change in the opinion polls this weekend had on the value of the pound and the stock markets. In the event of a "yes" vote if Westminster continued staunchly denying Scotland access to the BoE you'd have two years of that (from the referendum in 2014 to Independence Day in 2016) which could be disastrous for our recovering economy.
I wonder if stark realities would overcome the "if their out they don't get anything" comments we've seen on this thread. That being said I still have reservations about shared currencies, are there any examples of them working well ?
We saw the effect of just a slight change in the opinion polls this weekend had on the value of the pound and the stock markets.
I work at the international business department of a bank and I noticed that today as well. Just now I saw in TV news that Scotland's land area is 32% of that of the UK. I haven't read all the posts in this thread but I find it a little hard to understand that you would let such a big part of the country (both geographically and economically) go independent......
We saw the effect of just a slight change in the opinion polls this weekend had on the value of the pound and the stock markets.
I work at the international business department of a bank and I noticed that today as well. Just now I saw in TV news that Scotland's land area is 32% of that of the UK. I haven't read all the posts in this thread but I find it a little hard to understand that you would let such a big part of the country (both geographically and economically) go independent......
First there are a lot of don't knows. Add to that those who won't say who traditionally back the status quo / conservative option. Also add the factor that some who are polled simply lie so as not to reveal what they perceive as a popular choice. There is a long way to go in the final days and we should hope that the staying together campaign keeps the marriage together. The implications of break up of the whole UK (what next for Northern Ireland) does not bode well - hopefully a narrow "no" vote will be a kick up the arse for the politicians and think tanks to come up with rational policies for the whole country which can be communicated effectively.
Every currency union eventually (decades or centuries!) falls over as different sovereign states move at different paces and have differing views of the best rate. Ireland was effectively locked to sterling long after independence but then pursued a policy of shadowing the Deutsch Mark as part of economic strategy. It is well documented that the only way the €uro can succeed long term is if measures encoraging greater political and fiscal union take place. And this is why the governor of the Bank of England came out the other day stating that a currency union is incompatible with sovereignty - you either have common governance and currency or you don't... Try one without the other and political tensions mount - just look at Italy and Greece! Personally I believe the euro will work as deals are cut between the larger country governments. But if Salmond was the head of a newly independent Scottish state then I can't see negotiations being resolved any time soon... And the Scottish financial services industry will have to relocate to the City if it wants to operate at the same scale.
We saw the effect of just a slight change in the opinion polls this weekend had on the value of the pound and the stock markets.
I work at the international business department of a bank and I noticed that today as well. Just now I saw in TV news that Scotland's land area is 32% of that of the UK. I haven't read all the posts in this thread but I find it a little hard to understand that you would let such a big part of the country (both geographically and economically) go independent......
We saw the effect of just a slight change in the opinion polls this weekend had on the value of the pound and the stock markets.
I work at the international business department of a bank and I noticed that today as well. Just now I saw in TV news that Scotland's land area is 32% of that of the UK. I haven't read all the posts in this thread but I find it a little hard to understand that you would let such a big part of the country (both geographically and economically) go independent......
To be fair a lot of that land is made up of the Highlands which are beautiful but sparsely populated. Scotland's population is aprox 6m compared to England's 52m so in population terms it's not as big a blow.
So what does the leader of the Conservative and Unionist Party do if he looses?
Also a yes will mean general elections in 2015 and 2016, first one with the Scots second an English and Scottish only affair.
There's a strong chance that should the Scots vote Yes then the GE will be pushed back to 2016.
No chance IMO. This government is already 'over' the more usual 4 year term and this would require a change in the law IIRC as the fixed term is a max of 5 with the dates already set. It would be also be incredibly undemocratic to 'award' themselves an extra year full stop, let alone on the basis of a policy that they pushed through that had led to such a massive mess.
Even in the event of a Yes vote there is no way on earth the practicalities will be resolved by 2016 so there's no justification for delaying any election on that basis.
It's not just the current Govt that are discussing doing this but MPs from the whole House.
What policy was that BA?
Its less to do with the practicalities and more to do with the fact that in the event that Labour wins a small majority or were to enter into a coalition with the Lib Dems in 2015 and then lose the Scots MPs then it becomes a minority Govt in which nothing gets done and will quickly lead to another GE.
Just been announced that Cameron is skipping PMQs to go campaigning in Scotland. Oh well that's another couple of percent for the yes campaign then.
Cameron, Clegg and Milliband are all going to Scotland tomorrow.
Someone's worked out that every time Ed Miliband crossed the border from South to North, the No vote has suffered in the polls.
Maybe someone needs to take him to one side and politely advise him that he's about as likeable as a brick that's been thrown through your window that has an overdue gas bill attached to it.
What, and you think the solution is to send David Cameron? A bloke less 'toxic' to the average Scot you'll struggle to find.
I raise you George Gideon Oliver Osborne.
Might be on to something there, maybe not the best time to send a Baronet in waiting up there.
Just been announced that Cameron is skipping PMQs to go campaigning in Scotland. Oh well that's another couple of percent for the yes campaign then.
Cameron, Clegg and Milliband are all going to Scotland tomorrow.
Someone's worked out that every time Ed Miliband crossed the border from South to North, the No vote has suffered in the polls.
Maybe someone needs to take him to one side and politely advise him that he's about as likeable as a brick that's been thrown through your window that has an overdue gas bill attached to it.
What, and you think the solution is to send David Cameron? A bloke less 'toxic' to the average Scot you'll struggle to find.
He is at least Scots himself.
Not everyone is as tribally blinkered
Nope, not getting your point.
That you are being influenced by your dislike for an individual / party than the fact that the Prime Minister of the UK, and that of Scottish parentage and ancestry is campaigning to save the UK.
Not really. It was a response to Fiiish's ongoing attempt to disproportionately lay the blame for the narrowing of the polls at Labours door rather than the government and particularly David Cameron for offering the thing in the first place.
I made a light-hearted reference to the connection between Ed Miliband and the narrowing and eventual wipeout of No's lead (I never seriously suggested that the gap narrowed purely because Ed kept going over Hadrian's Wall) and then followed it up by correcting your inaccurate claim that the PM is more toxic in Scotland than Ed. I've never claimed that Labour are more to blame for the Government for Better Together's incompetence, please don't use me to deflect attention away from people questioning the basis of claims you make in your posts.
Have you considered that perhaps personal Miliband's ratings in Scotland are more a reflection of his failure to provide effective leadership against such a deeply unpopular Tory led government?
No I haven't. I thought it had more to do with the fact that his not very well liked or seen as a future PM, even within his own ranks.
If the Govt are so deeply unpopular then the fact that his party are only a few points ahead in the polls would suggest he and Labour are so too.
just to go to show how terribly put together the no campaign is, that salmond can lie and pull the wool and yet still come out on top. Then again, Salmond's been planning this referendum his entire career.
Cameron has ballsed this one completely. He refused to look at Devo Max and insisted on an in / out referendum. Now the Scots are close to voting "out" he is scrambling to offer Devo Max concessions and looking like he has totally underestimated Salmond and the Scottish people.
His arrogance in not even considering the Scots voting Yes is nothing short of breathtaking.
Salmond has run rings around Westminster and the very possible Yes vote will have serious implications on us all for years to come. I wouldn't let Cameron organise my sock draw.
Indeed! My quotes on poll observations all go back to 1992 where people lied to pollsters or changed their mind when the reality hit them...or simply refused to disclose (tending to be conservative) I have long held the belief that the Lib dems should have pulled the plug on the coalition once the worst of the recession was over...the fact is that their support of high tuition fees and scare tactics about NHS by Salmond are complete deflection from the core issue. Westminster MPs have not been honest and clear about their policies, their philosophy nor their expenses! Salmond (and Farrage) are exploiting this to the max.
Quite an interesting article in the evening standard tonight. Although it is probably skewed to an argument that suggests Scotland should stay, all of it makes fascinating reading as to what a mess it would be if they left. It also seems that Salmond hasn't thought about the knock on affect of a number of issues, particularly the financial situation if registered PLCs upped and left for example. I think fear of the unknown may prevail in the end, but it will be tight. Certainly a good time to be a politics student.
I like (actually meaning I dislike) the way a chap on TV said they were fed up of Conservative governments imposed on them by the English, this being just after fifteen years of the country being run into the ground by Labour party Scots.
Some of the rhetoric is making me feel quite anti Scottish which I assure you is not the norm. I do hope that if they vote to leave, they are treated just like any other international competitor. I for one will not accept a currency union with the Scots, if they want to leave the UK then leave they can but don't expect any favours from us. I hear that the tactic is to refuse to take on any of the UK debt unless a currency union is agreed. I just say ok then, we'll just take the oil instead send the army to take over the rigs and shut them down if necessary.
Once this silly vote is over, if they agree to stay in the UK I'd like to see the football leagues dismantled and replaced by one structure. One international football rugby and cricket team. No more calling Scotland a country when clearly it is just a region like Normandy, Bretton, Saxony and Swabia are in their respective COUNTRIES.
I think you have forgotten to take your tablets tonight.
I think if you have something to say then you should say it!
Quite an interesting article in the evening standard tonight. Although it is probably skewed to an argument that suggests Scotland should stay, all of it makes fascinating reading as to what a mess it would be if they left. It also seems that Salmond hasn't thought about the knock on affect of a number of issues, particularly the financial situation if registered PLCs upped and left for example. I think fear of the unknown may prevail in the end, but it will be tight. Certainly a good time to be a politics student.
Quite a few companies have said they would relocate to England including a number of Scottish household names.
Cameron has ballsed this one completely. He refused to look at Devo Max and insisted on an in / out referendum. Now the Scots are close to voting "out" he is scrambling to offer Devo Max concessions and looking like he has totally underestimated Salmond and the Scottish people.
His arrogance in not even considering the Scots voting Yes is nothing short of breathtaking.
Salmond has run rings around Westminster and the very possible Yes vote will have serious implications on us all for years to come. I wouldn't let Cameron organise my sock draw.
What if the English don't want "Devo max" because it's undemocratic? I'm all for the union but, not at any price, if they want in then they have to realise they are just part of a whole, we cant have the tail wagging the dog. A situation that changes our constitution should be put to the whole country not left to elected members and just the 10% of the population in the North.
Indeed! My quotes on poll observations all go back to 1992 where people lied to pollsters or changed their mind when the reality hit them...or simply refused to disclose (tending to be conservative) I have long held the belief that the Lib dems should have pulled the plug on the coalition once the worst of the recession was over...the fact is that their support of high tuition fees and scare tactics about NHS by Salmond are complete deflection from the core issue. Westminster MPs have not been honest and clear about their policies, their philosophy nor their expenses! Salmond (and Farrage) are exploiting this to the max.
Couldn't agree more.
I think Westminster, and especially Cameron, were lulled into apathy by early polls. They've therefore sat on their arses whilst Salmond has honed his argument, parts of which are misleading. However if you repeat something enough, no matter how disingenuous, the people start believing it.
The other issue is that the Yes vote now have a small window to play catch up so its desperation time. This is viewed as selling negativity......
Cameron has ballsed this one completely. He refused to look at Devo Max and insisted on an in / out referendum. Now the Scots are close to voting "out" he is scrambling to offer Devo Max concessions and looking like he has totally underestimated Salmond and the Scottish people.
His arrogance in not even considering the Scots voting Yes is nothing short of breathtaking.
Salmond has run rings around Westminster and the very possible Yes vote will have serious implications on us all for years to come. I wouldn't let Cameron organise my sock draw.
What if the English don't want "Devo max" because it's undemocratic? I'm all for the union but, not at any price, if they want in then they have to realise they are just part of a whole, we cant have the tail wagging the dog. A situation that changes our constitution should be put to the whole country not left to elected members and just the 10% of the population in the North.
I'm slightly ignorant with the downsides of Devo Max when it comes to Westminster.
We saw the effect of just a slight change in the opinion polls this weekend had on the value of the pound and the stock markets.
I work at the international business department of a bank and I noticed that today as well. Just now I saw in TV news that Scotland's land area is 32% of that of the UK. I haven't read all the posts in this thread but I find it a little hard to understand that you would let such a big part of the country (both geographically and economically) go independent......
Scotland's population is aprox 6m compared to England's 52m so in population terms it's not as big a blow.
Out of curiosity ...... how many Scots live in the rest of the UK?
We saw the effect of just a slight change in the opinion polls this weekend had on the value of the pound and the stock markets.
I work at the international business department of a bank and I noticed that today as well. Just now I saw in TV news that Scotland's land area is 32% of that of the UK. I haven't read all the posts in this thread but I find it a little hard to understand that you would let such a big part of the country (both geographically and economically) go independent......
Scotland's population is aprox 6m compared to England's 52m so in population terms it's not as big a blow.
Out of curiosity ...... how many Scots live in the rest of the UK?
This was on the BBC.
Surprisingly the number of Scots in England is roughly the same as English in Scotland. Same for Scots in Wales and NI and visa versa
We saw the effect of just a slight change in the opinion polls this weekend had on the value of the pound and the stock markets.
I work at the international business department of a bank and I noticed that today as well. Just now I saw in TV news that Scotland's land area is 32% of that of the UK. I haven't read all the posts in this thread but I find it a little hard to understand that you would let such a big part of the country (both geographically and economically) go independent......
Scotland's population is aprox 6m compared to England's 52m so in population terms it's not as big a blow.
Out of curiosity ...... how many Scots live in the rest of the UK?
About 750k - more Scots than live in any Scottish City.
So what does the leader of the Conservative and Unionist Party do if he looses?
Also a yes will mean general elections in 2015 and 2016, first one with the Scots second an English and Scottish only affair.
There's a strong chance that should the Scots vote Yes then the GE will be pushed back to 2016.
No chance IMO. This government is already 'over' the more usual 4 year term and this would require a change in the law IIRC as the fixed term is a max of 5 with the dates already set. It would be also be incredibly undemocratic to 'award' themselves an extra year full stop, let alone on the basis of a policy that they pushed through that had led to such a massive mess.
Even in the event of a Yes vote there is no way on earth the practicalities will be resolved by 2016 so there's no justification for delaying any election on that basis.
It's not just the current Govt that are discussing doing this but MPs from the whole House.
What policy was that BA?
Its less to do with the practicalities and more to do with the fact that in the event that Labour wins a small majority or were to enter into a coalition with the Lib Dems in 2015 and then lose the Scots MPs then it becomes a minority Govt in which nothing gets done and will quickly lead to another GE.
The decision that Shooters outlined to insist on an in/out choice.
Getting back to the issue of whether there will be an delayed election another factor to consider is the position of UKIP. Farage would make maximum political capital out any such decision regardless of whether it was pushed through by Cameron, Miliband or Clegg or any combination thereof. He would absolutely love to play the victim of an undemocratic, unconstituitional decision like that.
Comments
Some of the rhetoric is making me feel quite anti Scottish which I assure you is not the norm. I do hope that if they vote to leave, they are treated just like any other international competitor. I for one will not accept a currency union with the Scots, if they want to leave the UK then leave they can but don't expect any favours from us. I hear that the tactic is to refuse to take on any of the UK debt unless a currency union is agreed. I just say ok then, we'll just take the oil instead send the army to take over the rigs and shut them down if necessary.
Once this silly vote is over, if they agree to stay in the UK I'd like to see the football leagues dismantled and replaced by one structure. One international football rugby and cricket team. No more calling Scotland a country when clearly it is just a region like Normandy, Bretton, Saxony and Swabia are in their respective COUNTRIES.
Also a yes will mean general elections in 2015 and 2016, first one with the Scots second an English and Scottish only affair.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/nick-cohen/2014/09/erm-what-about-the-english/
Even in the event of a Yes vote there is no way on earth the practicalities will be resolved by 2016 so there's no justification for delaying any election on that basis.
I wonder if stark realities would overcome the "if their out they don't get anything" comments we've seen on this thread. That being said I still have reservations about shared currencies, are there any examples of them working well ?
There is a long way to go in the final days and we should hope that the staying together campaign keeps the marriage together.
The implications of break up of the whole UK (what next for Northern Ireland) does not bode well - hopefully a narrow "no" vote will be a kick up the arse for the politicians and think tanks to come up with rational policies for the whole country which can be communicated effectively.
Every currency union eventually (decades or centuries!) falls over as different sovereign states move at different paces and have differing views of the best rate. Ireland was effectively locked to sterling long after independence but then pursued a policy of shadowing the Deutsch Mark as part of economic strategy.
It is well documented that the only way the €uro can succeed long term is if measures encoraging greater political and fiscal union take place.
And this is why the governor of the Bank of England came out the other day stating that a currency union is incompatible with sovereignty - you either have common governance and currency or you don't... Try one without the other and political tensions mount - just look at Italy and Greece!
Personally I believe the euro will work as deals are cut between the larger country governments.
But if Salmond was the head of a newly independent Scottish state then I can't see negotiations being resolved any time soon... And the Scottish financial services industry will have to relocate to the City if it wants to operate at the same scale.
What policy was that BA?
Its less to do with the practicalities and more to do with the fact that in the event that Labour wins a small majority or were to enter into a coalition with the Lib Dems in 2015 and then lose the Scots MPs then it becomes a minority Govt in which nothing gets done and will quickly lead to another GE.
If the Govt are so deeply unpopular then the fact that his party are only a few points ahead in the polls would suggest he and Labour are so too.
Neil Kinnock falling over on the beach etc.
His arrogance in not even considering the Scots voting Yes is nothing short of breathtaking.
Salmond has run rings around Westminster and the very possible Yes vote will have serious implications on us all for years to come. I wouldn't let Cameron organise my sock draw.
My quotes on poll observations all go back to 1992 where people lied to pollsters or changed their mind when the reality hit them...or simply refused to disclose (tending to be conservative)
I have long held the belief that the Lib dems should have pulled the plug on the coalition once the worst of the recession was over...the fact is that their support of high tuition fees and scare tactics about NHS by Salmond are complete deflection from the core issue. Westminster MPs have not been honest and clear about their policies, their philosophy nor their expenses! Salmond (and Farrage) are exploiting this to the max.
I think Westminster, and especially Cameron, were lulled into apathy by early polls. They've therefore sat on their arses whilst Salmond has honed his argument, parts of which are misleading. However if you repeat something enough, no matter how disingenuous, the people start believing it.
The other issue is that the Yes vote now have a small window to play catch up so its desperation time. This is viewed as selling negativity......
Surprisingly the number of Scots in England is roughly the same as English in Scotland. Same for Scots in Wales and NI and visa versa
Getting back to the issue of whether there will be an delayed election another factor to consider is the position of UKIP. Farage would make maximum political capital out any such decision regardless of whether it was pushed through by Cameron, Miliband or Clegg or any combination thereof. He would absolutely love to play the victim of an undemocratic, unconstituitional decision like that.