Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
Options

One for the historians..Lions and donkeys: 10 big myths about World War One debunked

1235

Comments

  • Options
    This is an amazing thread. Thanks to all those who have posted family histories and thanks to SE7toSG3 for your time and knowledge. Wish history had been as interesting in school as what I have read about here.
  • Options
    edited March 2014
    That is absolutely brilliant brilliant SE7toSG3, thank you very much.

    No, I didn't know that my uncle was buried in Taukkyan Cemetery. The story I had received from my family was that he was missing presumed dead. Apparently he didn't die in the fighting, but had afterwards gone to swim in a river. The impression I got from my mum and my other uncle was that everyone guessed he had drowned because, although a strong swimmer, like everyone else in that line of our family he suffered from severe cramps (his father had been banned from swimming for this reason whilst serving in the navy in WWI).

    It was quite a surprise when I ordered his death certificate and found that it was all cut and dried that he had drowned and that there was no 'missing' element. So it's even more of a surprise (and I must say a pleasant one) to know that he is resting in a properly maintained cemetery.

    I guess it's possible that he is in that picture, but I wouldn't be able to make him out. Thanks ever so much for posting it though.
  • Options
    Absolutely incredible thread. Am going to have to dig out all of my grandad's service records I have hidden away I think.
  • Options
    Clive, is it possible to trace medals?

    My grandfather sold his Jutland and other medals inbetween the wars (for beer money most likely) and I'd like to know where they are.

    Could be in a private collection or long lost but would be tempting to buy them back if possible.
  • Options
    edited March 2014
    Stig said:

    That is absolutely brilliant brilliant SE7toSG3, thank you very much.

    No, I didn't know that my uncle was buried in Taukkyan Cemetery. The story I had received from my family was that he was missing presumed dead. Apparently he didn't die in the fighting, but had afterwards gone to swim in a river. The impression I got from my mum and my other uncle was that everyone guessed he had drowned because, although a strong swimmer, like everyone else in that line of our family he suffered from severe cramps (his father had been banned from swimming for this reason whilst serving in the navy in WWI).

    It was quite a surprise when I ordered his death certificate and found that it was all cut and dried that he had drowned and that there was no 'missing' element. So it's even more of a surprise (and I must say a pleasant one) to know that he is resting in a properly maintained cemetery.

    I guess it's possible that he is in that picture, but I wouldn't be able to make him out. Thanks ever so much for posting it though.

    Your uncle shares a cemetery with my father's cousin (my first cousin once removed) Stig.

    Flight Sergeant Ronald John Tebby, a pilot, 5 Squadron Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve died 2 June 1945.

    Family knowledge as to the details of his death is sketchy. He crashed his aeroplane apparently but nobody knew whether it was an accident or he was shot down.

    I wrote to someone a couple of years ago whom invited research requests re the RAFVR but his records only covered officers not "men."

  • Options
    will be ypres at weekend to see where my grandfather was captured on 31st october 1914..actually just outside ypres !
  • Options
    edited March 2014
    Strange thing i have just found(or not) .
    Mt Dad served in the Desert Airforce. He told me he was seconded twice to an Aussie Sqdrn and a Yugoslav one briefly (interesting story that).
    The other day looking through some pics i found a postcard that was sent to him during the war. It has his name. rank and says 459 Sqdrn , RAF, MEF. So i looked it up (only on Wikipedia) it says this was a RAAF Squadrn ? thing is it shows the sqdrn photo and my dad is standing on the wing ? i know this as i have the same pic with him arrowed which was sent to my Nan.

    So was the Sqdrn RAAF or RAF ?
  • Options
    Ben, you can advertise for a very reasonable price to search medal dealers catalogue's I will try and dig out some details, I do know a couple of people where it has worked. There is an "unofficial" Jutland medal bar that went on the British War Medal, the government commissioned it but never issued it, they are very rare. What ship was he on?

    Andy, I have always liked 5 Squadron as their crest has a maple leaf which reflects their time assisting the Canadian Corps in the Great War. During their time in Burma they flew Mohawk & Hurricanes and had the role of fighter escorts to Blenhiem (outdated by then) Bombers who were targeting North West Burma and ground strafing operations.

    By the time your uncle was killed they were equipped with Thunderbolt aircraft (from June 44 to disbandment in 1946). Interestingly (at least I hope so to you) the squadron were withdrawn from front line service in May 1945, they were preparing and training for a Malayan invasion though a Japanese surrender meant this was cancelled it would suggest that your Uncle was killed in a training operation for Malaya hence the sketchy details of his last flight?

    The squadron were located as follows during your uncles time;
    10 June 1938-4 October 1939: Risalpur (India)
    4 October 1939-10 June 1940: Fort Sandeman
    10 June 1940-18 February 1941: Lahore
    18 February-11 December 1941: Risalpur
    11 December 1941-5 May 1942: Dum Dum
    5 May-29 September 1942: Dinjan
    29 September-1 October 1942: Feni
    1-6 October 1942: Alipore
    6 October 1942-1 June 1943: Agartala
    1 June-7 December 1943: Khargpur
    7 December 1943-24 March 1944: Sapam
    24-31 March 1944: Wangjing
    31 March-6 June 1944: Lanka
    6-22 June 1944: Dergaon
    22 June-24 October 1944: Vizagapatam
    24-29 October 1944: Cholavarum
    29 October-2 December 1944: Kajamalai
    2-12 December 1944: St. Thomas Mount
    12 December 1944-19 April 1945: Nazir
    19 April-28 April 1945: Cox's Bazaar
    28 April-10 June 1945: Kyaukpyu
    10 June-24 June 1945: Vizagapatam

    the squadron records are available at the National Archives in Kew and should reveal more about your relative even if a Sergeant Pilot, hope this helps,

    Clive
  • Options
    edited March 2014
    Goonerhater first I must warn you of an **anorak alert** 459 Squadron were an "Article XV" Squadron, this was part of the Riverdale Agreement to deal with the Empire Training Scheme and by April 1942 this enabled us to raise 25 Canadian, 18 Australian & 6 New Zealand designated squadrons that flew within the larger RAF but had national links. Initially many Brits in the RAF served in these squadrons, they were controlled by, in 459's case the Australian defence forces (hence RAAF) but all the high ranking staff appointments remained British.

    They therefore retained a degree of Aussie autonomy and national identity whilst still being controlled by the RAF. They were formed in Burg-el-Arab in February 1942 and formed part of 201 Middle Eastern Command flying over the Egyptian coast in Hudsons and borrowed RAF Blenhiems. Their main roll was patrolling the Med and interdict targetting of German resupply shipping as far as Greece. After El Alamein their main operating area increased substantially and whilst still being on maritime offensive duties also flew anti submarine patrols over Yemen. The squadron moved to Gambut III Airfield in Libya in December 42 and upgraded to Lockhead Venturas (1942/44) & Martin Baltimores (July 44), they moved to Palestine & by now they controlled the shipping channels and gained an excellent reputation being awarded 1 OBE, 7 DFC's & a DFM for combat missions as far as the Greek Islands.

    They were disbanded in the UK in 1946 and whilst your Dad would have lived in the desert his aircraft operated almost entirely over the sea. I hope that answers the question, he was RAF in an RAAF squadron that fell under RAF Command!
  • Options
    Thanks for that SE7
    Dad also told me that one time he was witha Yugoslave Sqdrn and one night the Army turned up arrested all the officers----they were Royalists and the next day a new group of TITO loyalists were in charge !
  • Sponsored links:


  • Options
    edited March 2014
    SE7toSG3 said:

    Ben, you can advertise for a very reasonable price to search medal dealers catalogue's I will try and dig out some details, I do know a couple of people where it has worked. There is an "unofficial" Jutland medal bar that went on the British War Medal, the government commissioned it but never issued it, they are very rare. What ship was he on?

    Andy, I have always liked 5 Squadron as their crest has a maple leaf which reflects their time assisting the Canadian Corps in the Great War. During their time in Burma they flew Mohawk & Hurricanes and had the role of fighter escorts to Blenhiem (outdated by then) Bombers who were targeting North West Burma and ground strafing operations.

    By the time your uncle was killed they were equipped with Thunderbolt aircraft (from June 44 to disbandment in 1946). Interestingly (at least I hope so to you) the squadron were withdrawn from front line service in May 1945, they were preparing and training for a Malayan invasion though a Japanese surrender meant this was cancelled it would suggest that your Uncle was killed in a training operation for Malaya hence the sketchy details of his last flight?

    The squadron were located as follows during your uncles time;
    10 June 1938-4 October 1939: Risalpur (India)
    4 October 1939-10 June 1940: Fort Sandeman
    10 June 1940-18 February 1941: Lahore
    18 February-11 December 1941: Risalpur
    11 December 1941-5 May 1942: Dum Dum
    5 May-29 September 1942: Dinjan
    29 September-1 October 1942: Feni
    1-6 October 1942: Alipore
    6 October 1942-1 June 1943: Agartala
    1 June-7 December 1943: Khargpur
    7 December 1943-24 March 1944: Sapam
    24-31 March 1944: Wangjing
    31 March-6 June 1944: Lanka
    6-22 June 1944: Dergaon
    22 June-24 October 1944: Vizagapatam
    24-29 October 1944: Cholavarum
    29 October-2 December 1944: Kajamalai
    2-12 December 1944: St. Thomas Mount
    12 December 1944-19 April 1945: Nazir
    19 April-28 April 1945: Cox's Bazaar
    28 April-10 June 1945: Kyaukpyu
    10 June-24 June 1945: Vizagapatam

    the squadron records are available at the National Archives in Kew and should reveal more about your relative even if a Sergeant Pilot, hope this helps,

    Clive

    Clive,

    Once again you amaze me with your research and knowledge.

    Thank you so much for that and one of these days I'll get up to Kew. There is (was) a photo of him in his uniform I can remember as a youngster. I hope it has survived and will try to track it down.

    Tebby is not a common name (from memory there are around 250 or even less on the 1911 census) and there are 13 of them shown on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website. I am definitely related in varying degrees to 4 of them and quite possibly more distantly to others although I have not ascertained that.


    EDIT: I've discovered a website, Warbirds of India, which prohibits reproduction hence no link, showing RAF casualties with details.

    Clive's information above is spot on as it seems he crashed at Kyaukpyu when his Thunderbolt 1 suffered engine failure on approach and he struck a lorry.


  • Options
    I have a book out from Chislehurst library at the moment,
    Feeding Tommy
    Battlefield recipes of the first world war.
    Not only recipes but how they cooked, got supplies up etc.
    It's full of interesting stuff like,

    'However, a veteran of the great war indicated that oranges would not have been popular in the trenches, as it was impossible to wash-and toilet paper was in short supply-and men in his experience had a `clean hand' and a `dirty' one. As unpeeled apples could be eaten with one hand, they were popular. This could not be said for oranges'
  • Options
    Baldybounce is that book by Andy Robertshaw, if so he works for me www.battle-honours.co.uk

    He is also the guy off trench detectives and curator of the RLC Museum in Deepcut, lastly he is mad enough to have his own trench and allows groups to kit up in Great War uniform and move in overnight, it's not as tacky as it sounds and always felt it would be a good lifers experience!

    Andy, glad I was on the right track and I will look at warbirds of India now.
  • Options
    Yes it is.
  • Options
    Clive, my grandfather served in burma and the far east and was in the royal artillery. I know very little about his service (we weren't close) neither did my dad but the story was that he was awarded a medal for bravery but didn't want it. All I know is his name, Ronald Albert Williams and DOB: 17/07/1920. I think he may have been a bombardier and was offered a commision after the war but turned it down

    Would you be able to find anything out?
  • Options
    Is it true Andy R ended up in hospital when he tried to re-create the Christmas Truce football match Clive?
  • Options
    What a quite unbelievable thread. Facinatiing reading.
  • Options
    I can ask him Nick, not heard that one before but I like the sound of it.

    Dave M, I will have a look for you and will at least get you the address of who at the MOD to ask for more details, more tomorrow
  • Options
    Great thread.

    My great granddad Bert Ridley was killed in WWI before my grandad was born. His wife had two brothers that appeared to have survived the war.

    http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/143090/

    The CWGC and his death certificate says he was killed in action, but it was interesting to find that the website below says he was killed in an enemy air raid.

    http://twgpp.org/information.php?id=2155853

    His brother George William Ridley also died and is buried in Croydon Cemetery - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/400247/

    Another great granddad was according to his pension record "discharged unlikely to become an efficient soldier (medical reasons)". His wife had two younger brothers that were killed. I've also found a cousin of a great granddad on the other side of my family who's grave is in Tanzania.

    Don't think it's been mentioned on here, you can now search for and download WWI wills from https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk Some include letters that never made it home.
  • Sponsored links:


  • Options
    edited March 2014
    You chaps probably know this, but just in case: the late Prof. Richard Holmes's War Walks (WW1) programmes are being shown on BBC 2 daily at 1.15 p.m. on weekdays.
  • Options
    edited April 2014
    All of you who have followed this thread will have worked out that SE7toSG3 (Clive) is an expert in military history, and there has also been some interest in the possibility of a Charlton Life trip to the battle fields of the Great War.

    Well, I arrived back home this evening from a most fantastic 5 day trip to the Somme with Clive, and just want to tell you all that it was a brilliant, unforgettable experience. Clive runs a battlefields tour company and he, together with one of his guides, led our group of 20 through 3 days of intensely exciting, emotional and educational walks through the Somme battlefield - the other two days were mainly travel, but still with some great stops along the way.

    Clive is a walking encyclopaedia of military history and explains what happened in and around the area you walk, using memoirs of Great War veterans and other materials to bring the scenes to life. For me, and others, he took some scant details of relatives involved in the war and was able to pinpoint the exact field (in my case) where our relative was wounded and tell the story in fantastic detail. He really went way beyond what might be expected to bring individual stories to life. He is a top, top bloke too.

    The tours are fairly demanding, with between 8 and 10 miles a day being walked, much of it over rough tracks and even cross country through fields, up hills and wherever the battle story takes you. Having said that, I am a reasonably fit 58 year old and I had no trouble plus there were people there in their 60s and 70s who handled it just fine. Anyway, the physical exertion is well worthwhile because you see everything close up and in detail, in a way you just couldn't from a tour bus.

    Just in case there are any cynics out there - Clive did not ask me to post this, nor am I anything other than a paying client.

    If you have ever wanted to do a battlefield tour, I can totally recommend Clive to handle it for you. I will certainly be doing another tour with him at some point and would be keen to take part if there were to be a Charlton Life tour.

    All the best all - hoping for a much needed win tomorrow. Come on you Addicks!!!!!!!!!!


    Edit: an afterthought, if anyone wants to get a more detailed "punters" view please feel free to PM me
  • Options
    edited April 2014
    To be fair Davo, he does go on a bit though :-)
  • Options
    Addickted said:

    To be fair Davo, he does go on a bit though :-)

    True.....he gets paid by the word, I reckon :-) All good stuff though.
  • Options
    Nearly finished the Max Hastings book and it really is an excellent work of narrative history.
  • Options
    NLA have you seen this site about the Bedfordshires?

    http://www.bedfordregiment.org.uk/

    My Great Uncle, Private Samuel Tebby, was in the 1st Bedfordshires and died at Ypres on 15 November 1914.

    Steve Fuller, the site owner, is pleased to receive any information and he may have more details re your Great Grandfather.
  • Options
    my grandfather william ernest (lol)wray probably was shoulder to shoulder with him Len ...captured at Gheluvedt (near Ypres) on 31st october

    he was east surrey regiment but i know they were involved along with the worcesters i believe
  • Options
    @glassHalfFull
    Re your Grandfather I have found the following information
    1881 Birth - Benjamin Victor Herbert Dryland - born, Brabourne Kent
    1891 Census - Hope Cottage, Brabourne, Kent - Head of house mother Esther (leg amputee), brother Ernest (11) and Benjamin (9)
    1901 Census - 17 High Street, Sandgate, Folkestone Benjamin Dryland servant to the Swain Family
    1908 Marriage - Woolwich to Annie
    1916 Medal rolls - served in the 2nd Battalion Royal Inniskiling Fusiliers, survives the war and is awarded the British War & Victory Medal, arriving in France in May/June 1917, of the 12 men in his draft who were killed, none were from Ireland, nearly all from Birmingham or London. The 2nd Battalion were spared the Ypres Salient as part of the 32nd Division they were heavily engaged with the pursuit of the Germans back to the Hindenburg Line and moved to the 36th (Ulster) Division where they were south West of St Quentin on the 21 March 1918 for the German spring Offensive, (this is the most likely occasion he would have been gassed as per the family story. The remainder of 1918 was very busy for him fighting at the following actions;
    The Actions at the Somme Crossings,
    The Battle of Rosieres,
    The Battle of Messines 1918,
    The Battle of Bailleul,
    The First Battle of Kemmel Ridge,
    The Battle of Ypres 1918,
    The Battle of Courtrai,
    The action of Ooteghem,
    On 11 November the Division was at Mouscron, north east of Tourcoing. It remained there throughout the period of demobilisation which was completed by June 1919.
    1949 - Death - 5 September resided at The Bungalow, Station Road, Borough Green Kent, wife Annie was left the sizable sum of £1439, 8s,7d
  • Options

    SE7toSG3,

    That's just amazing !! I can't thank you enough. Will respond in due course. GHF.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!