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Bob Crow.

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  • edited February 2014

    Addickted said:

    Fiiish said:

    Ok, picking up on the last point you made for ease-I could pick them all one by one - can you give me some detail or factual evidence of the personal benefits he received from Venezuela?

    The main thing was he got given a cushy position by Chavez as part of the deal, a deal which was both at the detriment of the Venezuelan people who were robbed of £16m of a natural resource as part of a politically motivated backhander between two socialists, and at the unease of Londoners who were not comfortable with their city doing business with a man who had a rather chequered human rights record.

    If you want some other examples of dodgy dealings, Link 1 evidences where he gave his political chums 6-figure salary positions within his office despite the fact they were not qualified in the slightest for those positions, and they used those positions for political, rather than governing purposes. Link 2 evidences the review uncovering where public money was wasted and how Ken used the public purse as his own cheque book and that the review noted that they were unable to trace where much of the money wasted/misspent ended up due to records at the mayor's office conveniently going missing.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jan/20/london.politicalcolumnists
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100147088/ken-livingstone-six-new-lies-in-a-single-afternoon/
    This is what you said: As for Boris well I do think hes all piss and wind but I still prefer him to Ken Livingstone the most mendacious, corrupt and vindictive politician of my time.

    No he didn't.

    Nothing like checking your facts eh Ormiston?

    I have apologized to the other poster for the error so why you feel the need to stick your nose in is beyond me.
    1) Because it is a big nose
    2) Because Fiiish and my posts crossed in the ether a couple of hours before you posted an apology
    3) Because I can and have posted already on this thread
    4) Because Livingstone deserves all the abuse he gets and his apologists who constantly try to divert away from his missuse of power by suggesting that others have done/do worse - get right up that big nose of mine. Particularly those that get their facts wrong to suit. Just like your previous post.
  • Having just read an article on how over 5,000 Social Housing Tenants earn over £100k a year - it would appear Bob's group is not so elite.

    Figures compiled by the CLG show the high earners are subsidised by the taxpayer by £4,200 a year through low rents.

  • Fiiish said:

    Ok, picking up on the last point you made for ease-I could pick them all one by one - can you give me some detail or factual evidence of the personal benefits he received from Venezuela?

    The main thing was he got given a cushy position by Chavez as part of the deal, a deal which was both at the detriment of the Venezuelan people who were robbed of £16m of a natural resource as part of a politically motivated backhander between two socialists, and at the unease of Londoners who were not comfortable with their city doing business with a man who had a rather chequered human rights record.

    If you want some other examples of dodgy dealings, Link 1 evidences where he gave his political chums 6-figure salary positions within his office despite the fact they were not qualified in the slightest for those positions, and they used those positions for political, rather than governing purposes. Link 2 evidences the review uncovering where public money was wasted and how Ken used the public purse as his own cheque book and that the review noted that they were unable to trace where much of the money wasted/misspent ended up due to records at the mayor's office conveniently going missing.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jan/20/london.politicalcolumnists
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100147088/ken-livingstone-six-new-lies-in-a-single-afternoon/
    Ah, would this be the same Andrew Gilligan who is now Boris Johnson's Cycling Commissioner, being paid 58k p.a for a 3 day week, despite the fact that as a professional journalist, his only qualification for the made-up position appears to be he owns a bike? The same Gilligan who, since his appointment has seen deaths and injuries to cyclists on London's roads sky-rocket?
    Point of order here - and it's an important one, since it seems to be almost universally misunderstood - Deaths and injuries to cyclists in London have NOT 'skyrocketed' they have, in fact, been significantly reduced over the past fifteen years. In addition, over this same period, cycle use has almost doubled in London - making the statistical reduction even more significant. The blip you saw in fatalities last November was just that - a blip. Statistical anomalies occur all the time - until such time as a recognisable trend can be identified, it's nonsense to suggest that one freakish month indicates an inexorable rise in the fatality rate. Witness the past three months, where there has been just cyclist killed on London's roads. That's another statistical anomaly - usually you would expect an average of around 1-2 per month in a city the size of London, with the number of inexperienced cyclists on the roads.

  • Fiiish said:

    Ok, picking up on the last point you made for ease-I could pick them all one by one - can you give me some detail or factual evidence of the personal benefits he received from Venezuela?

    The main thing was he got given a cushy position by Chavez as part of the deal, a deal which was both at the detriment of the Venezuelan people who were robbed of £16m of a natural resource as part of a politically motivated backhander between two socialists, and at the unease of Londoners who were not comfortable with their city doing business with a man who had a rather chequered human rights record.

    If you want some other examples of dodgy dealings, Link 1 evidences where he gave his political chums 6-figure salary positions within his office despite the fact they were not qualified in the slightest for those positions, and they used those positions for political, rather than governing purposes. Link 2 evidences the review uncovering where public money was wasted and how Ken used the public purse as his own cheque book and that the review noted that they were unable to trace where much of the money wasted/misspent ended up due to records at the mayor's office conveniently going missing.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jan/20/london.politicalcolumnists
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100147088/ken-livingstone-six-new-lies-in-a-single-afternoon/
    Ah, would this be the same Andrew Gilligan who is now Boris Johnson's Cycling Commissioner, being paid 58k p.a for a 3 day week, despite the fact that as a professional journalist, his only qualification for the made-up position appears to be he owns a bike? The same Gilligan who, since his appointment has seen deaths and injuries to cyclists on London's roads sky-rocket?
    Point of order here - and it's an important one, since it seems to be almost universally misunderstood - Deaths and injuries to cyclists in London have NOT 'skyrocketed' they have, in fact, been significantly reduced over the past fifteen years. In addition, over this same period, cycle use has almost doubled in London - making the statistical reduction even more significant. The blip you saw in fatalities last November was just that - a blip. Statistical anomalies occur all the time - until such time as a recognisable trend can be identified, it's nonsense to suggest that one freakish month indicates an inexorable rise in the fatality rate. Witness the past three months, where there has been just cyclist killed on London's roads. That's another statistical anomaly - usually you would expect an average of around 1-2 per month in a city the size of London, with the number of inexperienced cyclists on the roads.

    Don't be so sensible.

    We all know that Boris's favourite film is Death Race 2000 and his role model is David Carradine.

    How many points was it for a cyclist?

  • Fiiish said:

    Ok, picking up on the last point you made for ease-I could pick them all one by one - can you give me some detail or factual evidence of the personal benefits he received from Venezuela?

    The main thing was he got given a cushy position by Chavez as part of the deal, a deal which was both at the detriment of the Venezuelan people who were robbed of £16m of a natural resource as part of a politically motivated backhander between two socialists, and at the unease of Londoners who were not comfortable with their city doing business with a man who had a rather chequered human rights record.

    If you want some other examples of dodgy dealings, Link 1 evidences where he gave his political chums 6-figure salary positions within his office despite the fact they were not qualified in the slightest for those positions, and they used those positions for political, rather than governing purposes. Link 2 evidences the review uncovering where public money was wasted and how Ken used the public purse as his own cheque book and that the review noted that they were unable to trace where much of the money wasted/misspent ended up due to records at the mayor's office conveniently going missing.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jan/20/london.politicalcolumnists
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100147088/ken-livingstone-six-new-lies-in-a-single-afternoon/
    Ah, would this be the same Andrew Gilligan who is now Boris Johnson's Cycling Commissioner, being paid 58k p.a for a 3 day week, despite the fact that as a professional journalist, his only qualification for the made-up position appears to be he owns a bike? The same Gilligan who, since his appointment has seen deaths and injuries to cyclists on London's roads sky-rocket?
    Point of order here - and it's an important one, since it seems to be almost universally misunderstood - Deaths and injuries to cyclists in London have NOT 'skyrocketed' they have, in fact, been significantly reduced over the past fifteen years. In addition, over this same period, cycle use has almost doubled in London - making the statistical reduction even more significant. The blip you saw in fatalities last November was just that - a blip. Statistical anomalies occur all the time - until such time as a recognisable trend can be identified, it's nonsense to suggest that one freakish month indicates an inexorable rise in the fatality rate. Witness the past three months, where there has been just cyclist killed on London's roads. That's another statistical anomaly - usually you would expect an average of around 1-2 per month in a city the size of London, with the number of inexperienced cyclists on the roads.

    This. Also, this was a rather daft point for someone to make in the same post that included a defence of bendy buses, which were so hated by London cyclists they campaigned to have them removed from the roads.
  • redsek said:

    Raise the scarlet standard high,
    Within its shade we'll live and die,
    Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
    We'll keep the red flag flying here.


    Football and politics. The colour is red.

    Goosebumps :-)
  • redsek said:

    Raise the scarlet standard high,
    Within its shade we'll live and die,
    Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
    We'll keep the red flag flying here.


    Football and politics. The colour is red.

    Things can only get better
    Can only get, can only get
    They get on from here
    You know, I know that
    Things can only get better
  • I don't agree with what Boris is doing BUT around 70% of the membership either voted no to strike action or didn't vote at all. Not much of a mandate for strike action.

    More than 63.9% of the electorate didn't vote for Cameron. By the same reasoning, that's not much of a mandate for being Prime Minister.

    With the rules for strike ballots and general elections being the way they are, the mandate for strike action and the forming of our Government are both completely valid.
  • Fiiish said:

    Ok, picking up on the last point you made for ease-I could pick them all one by one - can you give me some detail or factual evidence of the personal benefits he received from Venezuela?

    The main thing was he got given a cushy position by Chavez as part of the deal, a deal which was both at the detriment of the Venezuelan people who were robbed of £16m of a natural resource as part of a politically motivated backhander between two socialists, and at the unease of Londoners who were not comfortable with their city doing business with a man who had a rather chequered human rights record.

    If you want some other examples of dodgy dealings, Link 1 evidences where he gave his political chums 6-figure salary positions within his office despite the fact they were not qualified in the slightest for those positions, and they used those positions for political, rather than governing purposes. Link 2 evidences the review uncovering where public money was wasted and how Ken used the public purse as his own cheque book and that the review noted that they were unable to trace where much of the money wasted/misspent ended up due to records at the mayor's office conveniently going missing.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jan/20/london.politicalcolumnists
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100147088/ken-livingstone-six-new-lies-in-a-single-afternoon/
    Ah, would this be the same Andrew Gilligan who is now Boris Johnson's Cycling Commissioner, being paid 58k p.a for a 3 day week, despite the fact that as a professional journalist, his only qualification for the made-up position appears to be he owns a bike? The same Gilligan who, since his appointment has seen deaths and injuries to cyclists on London's roads sky-rocket?
    Point of order here - and it's an important one, since it seems to be almost universally misunderstood - Deaths and injuries to cyclists in London have NOT 'skyrocketed' they have, in fact, been significantly reduced over the past fifteen years. In addition, over this same period, cycle use has almost doubled in London - making the statistical reduction even more significant. The blip you saw in fatalities last November was just that - a blip. Statistical anomalies occur all the time - until such time as a recognisable trend can be identified, it's nonsense to suggest that one freakish month indicates an inexorable rise in the fatality rate. Witness the past three months, where there has been just cyclist killed on London's roads. That's another statistical anomaly - usually you would expect an average of around 1-2 per month in a city the size of London, with the number of inexperienced cyclists on the roads.

    That's a point of information, not a point of order.
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  • Off_it said:

    Anyway, Bob Crow.

    Death by buggery.


    Sounds good. Do we need to form a queue or something?
  • Fiiish said:

    Fiiish said:

    Ok, picking up on the last point you made for ease-I could pick them all one by one - can you give me some detail or factual evidence of the personal benefits he received from Venezuela?

    The main thing was he got given a cushy position by Chavez as part of the deal, a deal which was both at the detriment of the Venezuelan people who were robbed of £16m of a natural resource as part of a politically motivated backhander between two socialists, and at the unease of Londoners who were not comfortable with their city doing business with a man who had a rather chequered human rights record.

    If you want some other examples of dodgy dealings, Link 1 evidences where he gave his political chums 6-figure salary positions within his office despite the fact they were not qualified in the slightest for those positions, and they used those positions for political, rather than governing purposes. Link 2 evidences the review uncovering where public money was wasted and how Ken used the public purse as his own cheque book and that the review noted that they were unable to trace where much of the money wasted/misspent ended up due to records at the mayor's office conveniently going missing.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jan/20/london.politicalcolumnists
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100147088/ken-livingstone-six-new-lies-in-a-single-afternoon/
    Ah, would this be the same Andrew Gilligan who is now Boris Johnson's Cycling Commissioner, being paid 58k p.a for a 3 day week, despite the fact that as a professional journalist, his only qualification for the made-up position appears to be he owns a bike? The same Gilligan who, since his appointment has seen deaths and injuries to cyclists on London's roads sky-rocket?
    Point of order here - and it's an important one, since it seems to be almost universally misunderstood - Deaths and injuries to cyclists in London have NOT 'skyrocketed' they have, in fact, been significantly reduced over the past fifteen years. In addition, over this same period, cycle use has almost doubled in London - making the statistical reduction even more significant. The blip you saw in fatalities last November was just that - a blip. Statistical anomalies occur all the time - until such time as a recognisable trend can be identified, it's nonsense to suggest that one freakish month indicates an inexorable rise in the fatality rate. Witness the past three months, where there has been just cyclist killed on London's roads. That's another statistical anomaly - usually you would expect an average of around 1-2 per month in a city the size of London, with the number of inexperienced cyclists on the roads.

    This. Also, this was a rather daft point for someone to make in the same post that included a defence of bendy buses, which were so hated by London cyclists they campaigned to have them removed from the roads.
    Not daft at all - entirely unrelated points. One was regarding the competence, or otherwise, of Boris' cycling commissioner. The other was not a 'defence', it was about the waste of public money arising from scrapping buses that had years of service in them to spend millions on even more, buses to replace them - 1.5 buses needing to be bought for every bendy removed. Nothing to do with the views of cyclists re bendies. They were direct responses to points raised in your post, which l note you haven't countered.

    At the time, cyclists were more likely to be in favour of scrapping them, bus passengers in favour of keeping them. However, there was no clear, unanswerable majority either way because the polls at the time generally polled each group separately and were not particularly representative samples. Now, as there are thousands more bus passengers than cyclists, it could reasonably be argued that the majority of Londoners were in favour of keeping bendy buses, but strangely enough Boris/TfL never commissioned a comprehensive survey on this as they knew that most Londoners who held a view either way would be in favour of keeping them.

    Leroy, l take your point about fatalities, however l was careful to say fatalities and injuries in my point having gone up markedly - not to mention the various polls with cyclists saying they feel less safe on the roads than they have done previously, which to my mind comes under Gilligan's remit. And so I stand by my original point that Gilligan is no way suitably qualified for the role that we are all paying for, as well as the other points l made in my post.
  • Fiiish said:

    Fiiish said:

    Ok, picking up on the last point you made for ease-I could pick them all one by one - can you give me some detail or factual evidence of the personal benefits he received from Venezuela?

    The main thing was he got given a cushy position by Chavez as part of the deal, a deal which was both at the detriment of the Venezuelan people who were robbed of £16m of a natural resource as part of a politically motivated backhander between two socialists, and at the unease of Londoners who were not comfortable with their city doing business with a man who had a rather chequered human rights record.

    If you want some other examples of dodgy dealings, Link 1 evidences where he gave his political chums 6-figure salary positions within his office despite the fact they were not qualified in the slightest for those positions, and they used those positions for political, rather than governing purposes. Link 2 evidences the review uncovering where public money was wasted and how Ken used the public purse as his own cheque book and that the review noted that they were unable to trace where much of the money wasted/misspent ended up due to records at the mayor's office conveniently going missing.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jan/20/london.politicalcolumnists
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100147088/ken-livingstone-six-new-lies-in-a-single-afternoon/
    Ah, would this be the same Andrew Gilligan who is now Boris Johnson's Cycling Commissioner, being paid 58k p.a for a 3 day week, despite the fact that as a professional journalist, his only qualification for the made-up position appears to be he owns a bike? The same Gilligan who, since his appointment has seen deaths and injuries to cyclists on London's roads sky-rocket?
    Point of order here - and it's an important one, since it seems to be almost universally misunderstood - Deaths and injuries to cyclists in London have NOT 'skyrocketed' they have, in fact, been significantly reduced over the past fifteen years. In addition, over this same period, cycle use has almost doubled in London - making the statistical reduction even more significant. The blip you saw in fatalities last November was just that - a blip. Statistical anomalies occur all the time - until such time as a recognisable trend can be identified, it's nonsense to suggest that one freakish month indicates an inexorable rise in the fatality rate. Witness the past three months, where there has been just cyclist killed on London's roads. That's another statistical anomaly - usually you would expect an average of around 1-2 per month in a city the size of London, with the number of inexperienced cyclists on the roads.

    This. Also, this was a rather daft point for someone to make in the same post that included a defence of bendy buses, which were so hated by London cyclists they campaigned to have them removed from the roads.
    Not daft at all - entirely unrelated points. One was regarding the competence, or otherwise, of Boris' cycling commissioner. The other was not a 'defence', it was about the waste of public money arising from scrapping buses that had years of service in them to spend millions on even more, buses to replace them - 1.5 buses needing to be bought for every bendy removed. Nothing to do with the views of cyclists re bendies. They were direct responses to points raised in your post, which l note you haven't countered.

    At the time, cyclists were more likely to be in favour of scrapping them, bus passengers in favour of keeping them. However, there was no clear, unanswerable majority either way because the polls at the time generally polled each group separately and were not particularly representative samples. Now, as there are thousands more bus passengers than cyclists, it could reasonably be argued that the majority of Londoners were in favour of keeping bendy buses, but strangely enough Boris/TfL never commissioned a comprehensive survey on this as they knew that most Londoners who held a view either way would be in favour of keeping them.

    Leroy, l take your point about fatalities, however l was careful to say fatalities and injuries in my point having gone up markedly - not to mention the various polls with cyclists saying they feel less safe on the roads than they have done previously, which to my mind comes under Gilligan's remit. And so I stand by my original point that Gilligan is no way suitably qualified for the role that we are all paying for, as well as the other points l made in my post.
    when you say bendy buses, I take it that you mean those very long buses that most people never paid fares on? TFL lost millions in lost revenue on those things and even they referred to them as 'free' bus

  • I don't get it? Fatalities and injuries haven't gone up markedly - that's the precise point I was trying to make. In addition, surveys don't mean a thing - just because people don't 'feel' safer, doesn't mean they aren't safer. 90% of the reason people don't 'feel' safer is because the media spent two bloody months lying to them and telling them they weren't!!
  • edited February 2014
    Agreed - how people feel about things such as crime, immigration, public services etc is largely due to the hysterical media and usually not in sync with reality. The BBC did something last year where they surveyed the public on things such as crime, benefits and immigration and what the public thought were the figures. In most cases, the public' opinion on the stats were the polar opposite of the facts.
  • I don't get it? Fatalities and injuries haven't gone up markedly - that's the precise point I was trying to make. In addition, surveys don't mean a thing - just because people don't 'feel' safer, doesn't mean they aren't safer. 90% of the reason people don't 'feel' safer is because the media spent two bloody months lying to them and telling them they weren't!!

    Leroy - apologies, the research l was referring to might not be in the public domain so l shouldn't have referred to it. I see quite a lot of data in my job, usually already published, so l must have assumed it was already out there. As it is, l won't attempt to refute your point again. At least, not yet!

    CAFC999, general view is that the lost revenue argument was slightly exaggerated (spun?) in the debate. The vast majority of bendy users pre-paid, either via travelcards or Oyster. TfL weren't hugely concerned at the time as they didn't markedly increase the number of inspectors on those routes, and indeed the pre-paid argument was part of their justification for introducing them in the first place.

    Also, the so-called new Routemaster, which l think will be on more routes than the bendies were by the time they finish rolling out, has as many entry points as the bendies did and have no conductors on at night due to safety concerns (perhaps due to Bob Crow, ironically, given where this started). So to all intents and purposes they are/will be as 'free' as the bendies were.
  • I just found this:

    bit.ly/McNb25

    Pretty much backs up what I was saying
  • Off_it said:

    Anyway, Bob Crow.

    Death by buggery.

    Sounds good. Do we need to form a queue or something?
    Now that's a niche "Would Ya" if ever I saw one.
  • He's passed away.

    Didn't like him, but RIP.
  • Bob Crow has died.
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  • @SkyNewsBreak: Rail, Maritime and Transport Union confirms that its leader Bob Crow has died
  • Didn't like the fella for his politics but he stood up for his Union. My condolences to his family but I guess in the wider world he won't be missed too much.
  • I think RMT members and the trade union movement will miss him terribly and will be weaker as a result. And as much as non TU members like to think otherwise, a weak trade union movement is bad for all workers.
    RIP
    What a day.
  • I'm glad the reaction from all political quarters so far has been respectful. Considering how disgusting the Left's reaction was to Maggie's demise, there is going to be the temptation from the Right to retaliate in kind. I don't want to see celebration of someone's death from any political wing - it's subhuman.
  • Off_it said:

    Anyway, Bob Crow.

    Death by buggery.

    @Off_it - the post-mortem will be interesting given your prediction...
  • Fiiish said:

    I'm glad the reaction from all political quarters so far has been respectful. Considering how disgusting the Left's reaction was to Maggie's demise, there is going to be the temptation from the Right to retaliate in kind. I don't want to see celebration of someone's death from any political wing - it's subhuman.

    I imagine it will come. The difference the left had years to plan for Thatcher's death whereas this one has been a shock.
  • If Millwall try a minutes silence on saturday it could be a horribly uncomfortable moment .


    Glad i'm working instead.

    R.I.P Bob.
  • If Millwall try a minutes silence on saturday it could be a horribly uncomfortable moment .


    Glad i'm working instead.

    R.I.P Bob.

    May incorporate it with those two lads (Knox & Mizen), wouldn't cause any problems then.
  • If Millwall try a minutes silence on saturday it could be a horribly uncomfortable moment .


    Glad i'm working instead.

    R.I.P Bob.

    May incorporate it with those two lads (Knox & Mizen), wouldn't cause any problems then.

    ITV spoke about a tribute to him in Saturday's programme ,don't think there will be any minute's silence.

  • Bob Crow's final wish for tfl signage finally installed at Kilburn Road station today
    image
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