Do you guys only get cash from a bank counter in objection to ATMs ?
How about getting a telephone number from the internet rather than calling 192?
I would assume you've never bought a holiday online.
Indeed. If Bob Crow ran Charlton Life, it wouldn't be on-line, he'd employ an army of people to run off roneo up-dates every time someone added to a thread and they'd be posted through your letter box about three weeks later. Of course, he'd have to ensure that all the delivery staff had proper anti-dog protective gloves and got a final salary pension. Meanwhile monthly subscriptions would have to be increased from nothing to around £3000 to pay for this vastly inferior service! But hang on, that's not right, the RMT runs a snappily designed, highly efficient web site to communicate with its members. (Oh, the irony!) No doubt Royal Mail workers have lost their jobs as a result. Still, that's solidarity for you brother.
I admit at the outset that there is no logic behind it as I use cash machines but self serve machines in supermarkets scare the living daylights out of me to the extent that I've not yet summoned up the courage to try and use one.
Firstly I am by nature a technophobe anyway but secondly I think the pressure of hordes of people impatiently queuing behind me and watching my incompetent attempts in the supermarket to make it work when the bloody thing doesn't do what it is meant to is what deters me.
I'm being honest and I suspect I am not alone if the truth be known.
I was in Tescos the other day and an employee came up to me and asked whether I considered using their new do it yourself scanner. I told her no, because I’m against doing people like you out of jobs. Supermarkets are an important source of employment, but they would rather make more profits and cut costs if they could than help the country/meet social obligations so we should help them do the right thing by boycotting self-service checkouts etc…
We should also do the same for companies that overuse automated switchboards that never put you through to who you want and call centres in India. We underestimate the power of the consumer. The same goes for ticket offices. It just makes sense that LT has them and I’d rather they pay their staff to man them than I pay them in benefits. And if somebody says we pay them in fares – well do you honestly believe any savings will go into the consumer’s pockets?
We talk about benefit scroungers, but companies are some of the worst culprits in the country's benefits bill. People shouldn't have in work benefits to make work viable!
What you say sounds good but is not borne out by the facts. Self-scanning is what makes a shopper's experience quicker and is in much demand (if nothing else, it means your frozen goods don't melt while queueing at a checkout while some dozy shopper searches for her purse at the bottom of her handbag!)
In 2007, Tesco employed 260,000 people in the UK and 380,000 worldwide. Those figures are now 310,00 in the UK and 530,000 worldwide. So it doesn't seem as if Tesco has been cutting staff numbers much does it? In fact they've put on 20% more jobs during a period of recession. They have done this by embracing technological change and being more efficient than their rivals and more attractive to customers. I suspect many employees wished their company could say the same! (Yes, I know many of those jobs will be part-time but that suits many people who have other responsibilities and might like to work other than Nine to Five.)
I'd disagree with those particular comments. Their efficiency and customer focus is woefully lacking, especially allied to their home delivery service. I can say that from bitter personal experience.
They did us a favour in the long run as we switched to Ocado, who in my opinion have not put a foot wrong in the nine months we've been using them.
Tesco won't cut staff it needs - my point is that the consumer has a role in ensuring it needs them. I use ATMs and you have to draw a line somewhere I suppose - was trying to make the point that consumers have power. If you don't want to do it all yourself and have some customer service - collectively people can do something about it and make teh market work more for the people rather than the few.
I was in Tescos the other day and an employee came up to me and asked whether I considered using their new do it yourself scanner. I told her no, because I’m against doing people like you out of jobs. Supermarkets are an important source of employment, but they would rather make more profits and cut costs if they could than help the country/meet social obligations so we should help them do the right thing by boycotting self-service checkouts etc…
We should also do the same for companies that overuse automated switchboards that never put you through to who you want and call centres in India. We underestimate the power of the consumer. The same goes for ticket offices. It just makes sense that LT has them and I’d rather they pay their staff to man them than I pay them in benefits. And if somebody says we pay them in fares – well do you honestly believe any savings will go into the consumer’s pockets?
We talk about benefit scroungers, but companies are some of the worst culprits in the country's benefits bill. People shouldn't have in work benefits to make work viable!
What you say sounds good but is not borne out by the facts. Self-scanning is what makes a shopper's experience quicker and is in much demand (if nothing else, it means your frozen goods don't melt while queueing at a checkout while some dozy shopper searches for her purse at the bottom of her handbag!)
In 2007, Tesco employed 260,000 people in the UK and 380,000 worldwide. Those figures are now 310,00 in the UK and 530,000 worldwide. So it doesn't seem as if Tesco has been cutting staff numbers much does it? In fact they've put on 20% more jobs during a period of recession. They have done this by embracing technological change and being more efficient than their rivals and more attractive to customers. I suspect many employees wished their company could say the same! (Yes, I know many of those jobs will be part-time but that suits many people who have other responsibilities and might like to work other than Nine to Five.)
How many busnisses have the made go under by opening there express shops though?
I was in Tescos the other day and an employee came up to me and asked whether I considered using their new do it yourself scanner. I told her no, because I’m against doing people like you out of jobs. Supermarkets are an important source of employment, but they would rather make more profits and cut costs if they could than help the country/meet social obligations so we should help them do the right thing by boycotting self-service checkouts etc…
We should also do the same for companies that overuse automated switchboards that never put you through to who you want and call centres in India. We underestimate the power of the consumer. The same goes for ticket offices. It just makes sense that LT has them and I’d rather they pay their staff to man them than I pay them in benefits. And if somebody says we pay them in fares – well do you honestly believe any savings will go into the consumer’s pockets?
We talk about benefit scroungers, but companies are some of the worst culprits in the country's benefits bill. People shouldn't have in work benefits to make work viable!
What you say sounds good but is not borne out by the facts. Self-scanning is what makes a shopper's experience quicker and is in much demand (if nothing else, it means your frozen goods don't melt while queueing at a checkout while some dozy shopper searches for her purse at the bottom of her handbag!)
In 2007, Tesco employed 260,000 people in the UK and 380,000 worldwide. Those figures are now 310,00 in the UK and 530,000 worldwide. So it doesn't seem as if Tesco has been cutting staff numbers much does it? In fact they've put on 20% more jobs during a period of recession. They have done this by embracing technological change and being more efficient than their rivals and more attractive to customers. I suspect many employees wished their company could say the same! (Yes, I know many of those jobs will be part-time but that suits many people who have other responsibilities and might like to work other than Nine to Five.)
How many businesses have they made go under by opening there express shops though?
Do you know what doesn't strike and ruin 2 days of the week? Automated ticket machines.
Striking really hasnt endeared the workers to many high fare paying commuters just trying to get in and out of work with enough time to see their family or enjoy their precious few hours in the evening, including me.
Yeah it's a shame that technology advances in such a way that it is more efficient and cost effective to run an automated service rather than employ people, but as far as I'm concerned bring on the machines.
I was in Tescos the other day and an employee came up to me and asked whether I considered using their new do it yourself scanner. I told her no, because I’m against doing people like you out of jobs. Supermarkets are an important source of employment, but they would rather make more profits and cut costs if they could than help the country/meet social obligations so we should help them do the right thing by boycotting self-service checkouts etc…
We should also do the same for companies that overuse automated switchboards that never put you through to who you want and call centres in India. We underestimate the power of the consumer. The same goes for ticket offices. It just makes sense that LT has them and I’d rather they pay their staff to man them than I pay them in benefits. And if somebody says we pay them in fares – well do you honestly believe any savings will go into the consumer’s pockets?
We talk about benefit scroungers, but companies are some of the worst culprits in the country's benefits bill. People shouldn't have in work benefits to make work viable!
What you say sounds good but is not borne out by the facts. Self-scanning is what makes a shopper's experience quicker and is in much demand (if nothing else, it means your frozen goods don't melt while queueing at a checkout while some dozy shopper searches for her purse at the bottom of her handbag!)
In 2007, Tesco employed 260,000 people in the UK and 380,000 worldwide. Those figures are now 310,00 in the UK and 530,000 worldwide. So it doesn't seem as if Tesco has been cutting staff numbers much does it? In fact they've put on 20% more jobs during a period of recession. They have done this by embracing technological change and being more efficient than their rivals and more attractive to customers. I suspect many employees wished their company could say the same! (Yes, I know many of those jobs will be part-time but that suits many people who have other responsibilities and might like to work other than Nine to Five.)
How many busnisses have the made go under by opening there express shops though?
But surely Tesco made no one go under. It's called competition. If you can't hack it you fail. Tesco didn't make these firms go bust - it was their own uselessness. (If you want to re-live the corner shop experience go to a Greek island and check out the local grocers, then pop along to the Island's Llidl and see which you prefer.) Everyone bemoans their loss but no bugger actually used a corner shop because their "fresh" products looked like they had been on the shelves for a hundred years and often had. Using some people's logic, The Pony Express service would still be delivering mail in the US. Yeah, surprise surprise it went bust as soon as someone slapped in the railway. In contrast the Wells Fargo company changed in order to stay in business, realised that punters had stopped thinking that stage coaches were a good way to travel and is now the 4th biggest bank in the US. (It's vaguely interesting, I suppose, that Messrs Wells and Fargo together with a Mr Butterfield had another mail delivery service which still uses its original name - it's called American Express.)
Typical champagne Socialist, lives in £450,000 council house. Wonder if he has ever read ''The Ragged Trousered Philantropists'' (excuse spelling). I wouldn't mind driving an Underground Train for £52,000 grand a year. Should go and live in a Communist country like North Korea!
I was told that I could transfer it to a newly purchased card.
I was told by TFL this could only be reliably purchased though at an Underground Ticket Office, so it would immediately (3 hrs) register on the Oyster system.
Off to North Greenwich I popped, purchased a new one (the ticket office man entered it there and then on his computer) and I got the Annual transferred the next morning.
My point is, I'm not quite sure how ticket office related issues will work?
Will the 'helper' outside the ticket office have PC accessible?
Will they have Oyster Card on them purchase and register.
When they are innundated with requests who do they serve first, those who shout the loudest, the strongest who push to the front? The queue won't apply. The elderly don't stand a chance vs a hoard of young Italian tourists.
I am not a fan of Bob but I think these changes can only lead to poorer customer service.
I was told that I could transfer it to a newly purchased card.
I was told by TFL this could only be reliably purchased though at an Underground Ticket Office, so it would immediately (3 hrs) register on the Oyster system.
Off to North Greenwich I popped, purchased a new one (the ticket office man entered it there and then on his computer) and I got the Annual transferred the next morning.
My point is, I'm not quite sure how ticket office related issues will work?
Will the 'helper' outside the ticket office have PC accessible?
Will they have Oyster Card on them purchase and register.
When they are innundated with requests who do they serve first, those who shout the loudest, the strongest who push to the front? The queue won't apply. The elderly don't stand a chance vs a hoard of young Italian tourists.
I am not a fan of Bob but I think these changes can only lead to poorer customer service.
This link reported that “TfL says refunds for delayed or cancelled journeys won't be given where a delay is beyond its control, which includes strike action”.
Exactly is the geezer or bird gonna walk round with various creased paperwork, forms and whatever else they have in their office now stuffed in their pockets?
In case it hasn't been mentioned, Crow isn't a Council tenant. He lives in a Housing Association property and his partner is the tenant not him.
Everyone uses the power they have to lobby for what they can get. When big business threatens to take their profits and jobs abroad if we raise taxes they are either holding the country to ransom or just making clear the economic realities, depending on your perspective. Same with Crow.
When they are innundated with requests who do they serve first, those who shout the loudest, the strongest who push to the front? The queue won't apply. The elderly don't stand a chance vs a hoard of young Italian tourists.
Exactly is the geezer or bird gonna walk round with various creased paperwork, forms and whatever else they have in their office now stuffed in their pockets?
They simply use PDAs or tablets, with everything they'd require held in their hand rather than stuck behind a bullet proof window.
Exactly is the geezer or bird gonna walk round with various creased paperwork, forms and whatever else they have in their office now stuffed in their pockets?
They simply use PDAs or tablets, with everything they'd require held in their hand rather than stuck behind a bullet proof window.
It's called modern customer service.
Not very private though is it, if instead of passing a confidential form through a window, you are giving out you details where everyone else can hear?
When they are innundated with requests who do they serve first, those who shout the loudest, the strongest who push to the front? The queue won't apply. The elderly don't stand a chance vs a hoard of young Italian tourists.
How racist.
And oldist. I'll take all those Italians.
:-)
Don't those twenty something Italians make you sick. All dressed pukka, mostly all the girls pretty, likewise the bloke's suave.
It is not just about ticket machines. It is having a staff presence on the tubes that can deal with emergencies and ensure safety for all the passengers using the tube. That is safety in regard of emergencies / fires / accidents and not being robbed or mugged.
On train station in London they removed all staff and the stations and trains in London became more unsafe. As the stations become unsafe spaces, less people use the trains in off peak times. The presence of train staff helps to ensure safety. Public spaces need staff to ensure that the spaces remain safe to use.
It would also be helpful if the Oyster machines and technology was not so poor quality. Numerous times the oyster card has taken money off the card and you have to go to a ticket office to get the money put back on your card. You think TFL are going to be bothered about making it easier to get the money back by telephone ? Call this premium rate number, or put it in writing, basically you will never get your money back.
I've travelled on tube/metro/underground systems across the UK, Europe & The World and there is nothing that the LU has that would make any of the others better. It's also by far the most expensive one. If you were to start the LU from scratch, you'd have driverless trains, automated ticket machines and a proper travelcard system (Oyster's system is frankly crap compared to one's elsewhere in the world). Every other system in the world usually has at least one member of staff visible at the stations and according to TFL or whoever this still isn't changing, it's just ticket offices they're shutting. Hong Kong is by far the best system I've used and considering I don't understand the language I find it just as easy to use as the LU and it's about the tenth of the price for a ticket. All stations are brightly lit and safe, at least the ones I went to (which was quite a few and not all of them were main stations).
The point is whenever there is the threat of any change, good or bad, Bob Crow throws a spanner in the works. He's living in the 1970s and the world has moved on. With the technology available today you could run the LU with the tenth of the workforce it currently has and for even less than a tenth of the cost. Of course Londoners can't have it both ways - if you want manned ticket offices and manned trains (despite many other cities embracing driverless trains with no complaints) then of course you're going to have to pay for it - what is it now, nearly a tenner for a return nowadays? I could feed a family of 4 on what a tube journey costs nowadays. Claiming Bob Crow is sticking to his socialist scruples is moot when hard-working families are directly negatively affected as a result of his belligerent actions - they either have to foot the bill for his demands or lose a day's wages because they can't go to work because he's called a strike. One day he will overplay his hand and leave a lot of the workers he represents in trouble, just like Unite did at Grangemouth - but at least he'll be OK as he's a millionaire and has a free house from the Government. I don't know any union that saved jobs by making it unaffordable to keep them employed, and that is fast what Bob Crow is doing. Resisting changes that make the cost of each employee cheaper is frankly suicide as far as job security is concerned.
Some good points there but a couple of corrections...
1) Crow is on 140k, that doesn't make him anywhere near a millionaire!
2) His Council House is not free, he pays rent on it.
3) Resisting change which is against the interests of their members is what any lobby group or Union does, it's why they exist.
4) You are right about HK though, superb train system.
5) In terms of technology, you are right that modern tech could (and does) save money on ticketing side - but keeping LU going is still a MASSIVE engineering feat which requires a lot of man power.
1) He's been on 140-150k (I see different figures bandied about) for years now. Assuming that he isn't spending all that money and he is getting some pretty good pension payments from his employers then yes, he is likely categorically a millionaire, or has at least accrued over a million in disposable income over the years.
2) His rent, like all council tenants, is heavily subsidised compared to what private renters have to pay, and he can afford to buy his own house and should, morally speaking, free up a home so a homeless family who needs it can have it when there is a national housing shortage.
3) True, but resisting changes that makes the industry more efficient and making it very expensive to keep his members employed in terms of both salaries and the loss of revenue through their constant striking is just hastening the nails being hammered into their long-term employment.
4) Thanks. I did make that point with little knowledge of the working conditions and salaries of HK train workers though.
5) Agreed, and I'm not saying we need to sack engineers. In fact, if we embrace automated ticketing, driverless trains and automated logisitics, we'll need more engineers, technicians and professionals than ever. If every station is going to be manned, then instead of having some bloke sit on his arse inside a ticket office we will need people providing customer service, help and directions and be ambassadors of London, especially to tourists and visitors. I saw someone make the point that ticket offices are needed because of the Eurostar - yet I doubt more than a handful ticket office staff in London are fluent in any language apart from their own.
The point is drivers and ticket salesmen are obsolete and the public shouldn't be footing the bill for their continued employer if the technology exists to make their roles cheaper - just like how you don't see people in lifts anymore operating the lift, or even at modern football grounds where machines scan your ticket and operate the turnstile.
I'd also quickly like to address the point some have made saying that trade unions are still needed because if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't have had worker's rights and employment laws. Granted, but we have those things and it isn't trade unions that are stopping the Government from rolling back those laws. Under the same logic, we should still keep sea-mines in the English Channel because they served a useful purpose in WW2, or we should keep feudal lords because they brought in the Magna Carta.
I agree with other posters though, Oyster cards are completely naff. The principle is that if you make a mistake or the machine makes a mistake (much more common), you'll get charged the maximum possible fare for the day and have to jump through a series of bureaucratic hoops to get your money back in 2 months time, that's just crap, and I don't think I've seen a system anywhere near as badly designed anywhere else in the world.
Comments
But hang on, that's not right, the RMT runs a snappily designed, highly efficient web site to communicate with its members. (Oh, the irony!) No doubt Royal Mail workers have lost their jobs as a result. Still, that's solidarity for you brother.
Firstly I am by nature a technophobe anyway but secondly I think the pressure of hordes of people impatiently queuing behind me and watching my incompetent attempts in the supermarket to make it work when the bloody thing doesn't do what it is meant to is what deters me.
I'm being honest and I suspect I am not alone if the truth be known.
I'd disagree with those particular comments. Their efficiency and customer focus is woefully lacking, especially allied to their home delivery service. I can say that from bitter personal experience.
They did us a favour in the long run as we switched to Ocado, who in my opinion have not put a foot wrong in the nine months we've been using them.
Striking really hasnt endeared the workers to many high fare paying commuters just trying to get in and out of work with enough time to see their family or enjoy their precious few hours in the evening, including me.
Yeah it's a shame that technology advances in such a way that it is more efficient and cost effective to run an automated service rather than employ people, but as far as I'm concerned bring on the machines.
Using some people's logic, The Pony Express service would still be delivering mail in the US. Yeah, surprise surprise it went bust as soon as someone slapped in the railway. In contrast the Wells Fargo company changed in order to stay in business, realised that punters had stopped thinking that stage coaches were a good way to travel and is now the 4th biggest bank in the US. (It's vaguely interesting, I suppose, that Messrs Wells and Fargo together with a Mr Butterfield had another mail delivery service which still uses its original name - it's called American Express.)
Wonder if he has ever read ''The Ragged Trousered Philantropists'' (excuse spelling).
I wouldn't mind driving an Underground Train for £52,000 grand a year.
Should go and live in a Communist country like North Korea!
I was told that I could transfer it to a newly purchased card.
I was told by TFL this could only be reliably purchased though at an Underground Ticket Office, so it would immediately (3 hrs) register on the Oyster system.
Off to North Greenwich I popped, purchased a new one (the ticket office man entered it there and then on his computer) and I got the Annual transferred the next morning.
My point is, I'm not quite sure how ticket office related issues will work?
Will the 'helper' outside the ticket office have PC accessible?
Will they have Oyster Card on them purchase and register.
When they are innundated with requests who do they serve first, those who shout the loudest, the strongest who push to the front? The queue won't apply. The elderly don't stand a chance vs a hoard of young Italian tourists.
I am not a fan of Bob but I think these changes can only lead to poorer customer service.
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/travel/2014/02/been-affected-by-Londons-tube-strike-you-wont-get-ticket-refunds
However, somewhat ironically, it says that the refund procedure for 'normal' delays (i.e. not caused by strike action) is:
"With Tube and London Overground claims, you'll get a voucher which can be redeemed at Tube and Overground stations",
when the current strike is about the planned closure of ticket offices (where you would need to go to ‘redeem’ them)….
Everyone uses the power they have to lobby for what they can get. When big business threatens to take their profits and jobs abroad if we raise taxes they are either holding the country to ransom or just making clear the economic realities, depending on your perspective. Same with Crow.
And oldist. I'll take all those Italians.
:-)
It's called modern customer service.
I wonder how they have got on today ?
Sorry D but this is stuff of the dark ages.
On train station in London they removed all staff and the stations and trains in London became more unsafe. As the stations become unsafe spaces, less people use the trains in off peak times. The presence of train staff helps to ensure safety. Public spaces need staff to ensure that the spaces remain safe to use.
What confidential forms do you pass through a ticket office window?
Most young uns may not mind but it's pretty worrying for those older in this world of fraud.
2) His rent, like all council tenants, is heavily subsidised compared to what private renters have to pay, and he can afford to buy his own house and should, morally speaking, free up a home so a homeless family who needs it can have it when there is a national housing shortage.
3) True, but resisting changes that makes the industry more efficient and making it very expensive to keep his members employed in terms of both salaries and the loss of revenue through their constant striking is just hastening the nails being hammered into their long-term employment.
4) Thanks. I did make that point with little knowledge of the working conditions and salaries of HK train workers though.
5) Agreed, and I'm not saying we need to sack engineers. In fact, if we embrace automated ticketing, driverless trains and automated logisitics, we'll need more engineers, technicians and professionals than ever. If every station is going to be manned, then instead of having some bloke sit on his arse inside a ticket office we will need people providing customer service, help and directions and be ambassadors of London, especially to tourists and visitors. I saw someone make the point that ticket offices are needed because of the Eurostar - yet I doubt more than a handful ticket office staff in London are fluent in any language apart from their own.
The point is drivers and ticket salesmen are obsolete and the public shouldn't be footing the bill for their continued employer if the technology exists to make their roles cheaper - just like how you don't see people in lifts anymore operating the lift, or even at modern football grounds where machines scan your ticket and operate the turnstile.
I'd also quickly like to address the point some have made saying that trade unions are still needed because if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't have had worker's rights and employment laws. Granted, but we have those things and it isn't trade unions that are stopping the Government from rolling back those laws. Under the same logic, we should still keep sea-mines in the English Channel because they served a useful purpose in WW2, or we should keep feudal lords because they brought in the Magna Carta.
I agree with other posters though, Oyster cards are completely naff. The principle is that if you make a mistake or the machine makes a mistake (much more common), you'll get charged the maximum possible fare for the day and have to jump through a series of bureaucratic hoops to get your money back in 2 months time, that's just crap, and I don't think I've seen a system anywhere near as badly designed anywhere else in the world.