I agree that JJ has only a limited part to play whilst BB continues with his sterile tactics. Players are scared stiff to go forward but at least JJ tries to make runs beyond our 'forward' players. When (if ?) BB becomes less defensive then JJ will come into his own again. I think JJ, along with most of the team, is very frustrated at the current negativity.
Hex look at the stats 66 mins was the first time Saturday JJ passed a ball forward ... Just Adds nothing to the team and not helping Buyons at all ... The diff Saturday was there for all to see JJ is div one level
probably because there was no forward option?
Yoni Buyens should be getting spanked after Saturday's performance, not Jackson.
Pretty much every game I've seen this season we've been outnumbered in midfield. We were first half yesterday, but we came out second half with Bulot dropping to right midfield when we didn't have the ball and the game turned on its head.
It also doesn't help that we have no-one who can hold the ball up front. Vetokele is a wonderful footballer but that's not his strength, and George hasn't shown he's the solution (yet). It means that the midfield have a big gap to make up and neither Buyens nor Jackson are quick. The former had a mare yesterday, barely a pass went to a red shirt, and whilst I think there's a lot to be said for Cousins moving inside I think we need Buyens to be ticking if that's going to be a success.
There are better players all round Jacko now, so he's not standing out like he has done in the previous 2-3 seasons. Even so he still has a lot to offer - some of his forward play on Saturday was very good indeed - and all this pace stuff is frankly nonsense because he's never had any. What he is is the one leader we have out there, and that's why we tend to look worse when he's not in the side. Until we look better without him, the idea of putting him out to pasture is, in my view, ridiculous.
Hex look at the stats 66 mins was the first time Saturday JJ passed a ball forward ... Just Adds nothing to the team and not helping Buyons at all ... The diff Saturday was there for all to see JJ is div one level
Yes but you've wanted him out of the side since before our League One title season. Forgive me if I don't find your views persuasive.
Hex look at the stats 66 mins was the first time Saturday JJ passed a ball forward ... Just Adds nothing to the team and not helping Buyons at all ... The diff Saturday was there for all to see JJ is div one level
probably because there was no forward option?
Yoni Buyens should be getting spanked after Saturday's performance, not Jackson.
Luckily Jackson is playing in Div One.
Precisely! There are no forward options. The midfield and defence daren't risk a forward pass for fear of losing the ball. The forwards then don't move around because they are not going to get a pass which means the midfield then don't pass forward as the forwards are marked. Its a vicious circle which will only get worse as other teams suss out our limited and sterile tactics. JJ is not the problem - he is a prime symptom of the problem.
He is the attacking midfielder but he can't because he don't have the legs so we end up with two defensive mid players ... Again. Proved how it should work on Saturday when Cousins moved in ...gave Buyons more space to dictate play ........ Jackson becoming the new Andy Peake
Sorry rose-tinted Colin, Buyens can't dictate play because he spends most of his time playing triangles with the central defenders, and as each match passes, to less and less effect. That leaves JJ to chase in midfield and make runs forward. But why should he bother as the ball never gets forward, at least not in time to make those runs effective.
He is the attacking midfielder but he can't because he don't have the legs so we end up with two defensive mid players ... Again. Proved how it should work on Saturday when Cousins moved in ...gave Buyons more space to dictate play ........ Jackson becoming the new Andy Peake
Sorry rose-tinted Colin, Buyens can't dictate play because he spends most of his time playing triangles with the central defenders, and as each match passes, to less and less effect. That leaves JJ to chase in midfield and make runs forward. But why should he bother as the ball never gets forward, at least not in time to make those runs effective.
I think Buyens can be more damaging if partnered with Cousins in the centre. You are right that Vetokele needs a partner to a, take some of the pressure of him, and b, bring others into play. I think the issue with JJ is that he has made a role for himself in the team over the last few seasons as getting forward with late runs and scoring goals. At the moment he's not doing that. Is this because of the lack of hold up play up top, or because his legs/ability are fading? This is the question. Going by the last few games, I think we've been overrun in the centre. Some may argue this is down to Buyens, some JJ, some say the partnership between the 2 is the issue. I would like to see what it's like with Buyens & Cousins in the centre. Primarily because I feel Buyens will offer more if paired with Cousins rather than JJ. Also, JJ has always had a consistent run in the team (quite rightly on balance), but let us have a chance to see if we can perform without him. I think we can
Jackson is still a very good player to have around as he can get goals. he isn't having as much of an impact this year on the game as he has in previous years admittedly. if he scored the odd goal people would be singing his praises. Yes he is slowing down and has been for a couple of years but people havent cared previously because he was scoring goals. But with Buyens taking the penalties now he is not being noticed as much ina positive light. I'd like to see him play behind Vetokele, with cousins in the middle with Buyens and Bulot out wide (if we are going to play Vetokele upfront on his own that is). he is a goal threat.
He is the attacking midfielder but he can't because he don't have the legs so we end up with two defensive mid players ... Again. Proved how it should work on Saturday when Cousins moved in ...gave Buyons more space to dictate play ........ Jackson becoming the new Andy Peake
Sorry rose-tinted Colin, Buyens can't dictate play because he spends most of his time playing triangles with the central defenders, and as each match passes, to less and less effect. That leaves JJ to chase in midfield and make runs forward. But why should he bother as the ball never gets forward, at least not in time to make those runs effective.
I think the issue with JJ is that he has made a role for himself in the team over the last few seasons as getting forward with late runs and scoring goals. At the moment he's not doing that. Is this because of the lack of hold up play up top, or because his legs/ability are fading? This is the question.
Problem is, whatever the reason it isn't happening... it isn't happening. And sadly JJ does not offer much else nowadays.
He is the attacking midfielder but he can't because he don't have the legs so we end up with two defensive mid players ... Again. Proved how it should work on Saturday when Cousins moved in ...gave Buyons more space to dictate play ........ Jackson becoming the new Andy Peake
Sorry rose-tinted Colin, Buyens can't dictate play because he spends most of his time playing triangles with the central defenders, and as each match passes, to less and less effect. That leaves JJ to chase in midfield and make runs forward. But why should he bother as the ball never gets forward, at least not in time to make those runs effective.
I think Buyens can be more damaging if partnered with Cousins in the centre. You are right that Vetokele needs a partner to a, take some of the pressure of him, and b, bring others into play. I think the issue with JJ is that he has made a role for himself in the team over the last few seasons as getting forward with late runs and scoring goals. At the moment he's not doing that. Is this because of the lack of hold up play up top, or because his legs/ability are fading? This is the question. Going by the last few games, I think we've been overrun in the centre. Some may argue this is down to Buyens, some JJ, some say the partnership between the 2 is the issue. I would like to see what it's like with Buyens & Cousins in the centre. Primarily because I feel Buyens will offer more if paired with Cousins rather than JJ. Also, JJ has always had a consistent run in the team (quite rightly on balance), but let us have a chance to see if we can perform without him. I think we can
I agree to some degree but if the ethos of BB's tactics is 'don't give the ball away anywhere on the pitch' then swapping Cousins for JJ is just tinkering around the edges and missing the fundemental problem - you have got to take chances to score goals AND you have to take those chances quickly. We don't do either so JJ is restricted and whereas in the past he would make a forward run or play an early ball into the area, he passes sideways or back.
He is the attacking midfielder but he can't because he don't have the legs so we end up with two defensive mid players ... Again. Proved how it should work on Saturday when Cousins moved in ...gave Buyons more space to dictate play ........ Jackson becoming the new Andy Peake
Sorry rose-tinted Colin, Buyens can't dictate play because he spends most of his time playing triangles with the central defenders, and as each match passes, to less and less effect. That leaves JJ to chase in midfield and make runs forward. But why should he bother as the ball never gets forward, at least not in time to make those runs effective.
Going by the last few games, I think we've been overrun in the centre.
We've been over run in the centre midfield because our 2 CMs have invariably been matched with our opponent's 3 CMs.
Jacko still a good player BUT Cousins running through the centre of midfield with Buyens sitting is the way forward! Also brings a lot more energy which we are lacking.
He is the attacking midfielder but he can't because he don't have the legs so we end up with two defensive mid players ... Again. Proved how it should work on Saturday when Cousins moved in ...gave Buyons more space to dictate play ........ Jackson becoming the new Andy Peake
Sorry rose-tinted Colin, Buyens can't dictate play because he spends most of his time playing triangles with the central defenders, and as each match passes, to less and less effect. That leaves JJ to chase in midfield and make runs forward. But why should he bother as the ball never gets forward, at least not in time to make those runs effective.
Going by the last few games, I think we've been overrun in the centre.
We've been over run in the centre midfield because our 2 CMs have invariably been matched with our opponent's 3 CMs.
It's a difficult one. Would you suggest a central midfield three of Buyens, JJ & Cousins. This would accommodate all 3 in their preferred roles, but would then add extra pressure on Vetokele. I think BB will continue as is, I would just like to see the Buyens/Cousins partnership. You've also got the problem of JJ being captain as well. It's not usual to drop your captain (an excellent one at that).
I fear this, plus the lack of partner for Vetokele is why we're not pushing on. If we can address these areas, then I think we can really push on
I must be one of the few who was really concerned by Cousins on Saturday. He isn't a natural winger whatsoever and its painfully obvious to see that he feels more comfortable in the middle. He's a good player, but is quite limited in what he can excel at IMO. He isn't going to get quicker or more skillful at beating a player one-on-one.
Based on the last few games, I would definitely have Lawrie Wilson starting on the right wing, and switch Gudmundsson to the left.
Having JJ the man on the pitch is always a plus for the team, but unfortunately JJ the player is off the pace these days. It is so obvious now that young Cousins should be played in midfield, not on the flanks. Big Bad Bob needs time to discover the best way to use his squad, and we should remember that his early instructions from Roland were, don't let us get relegated. Happily for him and for us we have started very well, so that our plans and ambitions will change, and the prescence of JJ as the Club Captain will be invaluable with the need to mould and bond.
I must be one of the few who was really concerned by Cousins on Saturday. He isn't a natural winger whatsoever and its painfully obvious to see that he feels more comfortable in the middle. He's a good player, but is quite limited in what he can excel at IMO. He isn't going to get quicker or more skillful at beating a player one-on-one.
Based on the last few games, I would definitely have Lawrie Wilson starting on the right wing, and switch Gudmundsson to the left.
In the first half I thought he was very poor on the left-wing, but got somewhat better when he switched over to the right.
Seems the defender at the start sussed that Cousins only had a right foot and cut him off every single time.
He is the attacking midfielder but he can't because he don't have the legs so we end up with two defensive mid players ... Again. Proved how it should work on Saturday when Cousins moved in ...gave Buyons more space to dictate play ........ Jackson becoming the new Andy Peake
Sorry rose-tinted Colin, Buyens can't dictate play because he spends most of his time playing triangles with the central defenders, and as each match passes, to less and less effect. That leaves JJ to chase in midfield and make runs forward. But why should he bother as the ball never gets forward, at least not in time to make those runs effective.
Going by the last few games, I think we've been overrun in the centre.
We've been over run in the centre midfield because our 2 CMs have invariably been matched with our opponent's 3 CMs.
It's a difficult one. Would you suggest a central midfield three of Buyens, JJ & Cousins. This would accommodate all 3 in their preferred roles, but would then add extra pressure on Vetokele. I think BB will continue as is, I would just like to see the Buyens/Cousins partnership. You've also got the problem of JJ being captain as well. It's not usual to drop your captain (an excellent one at that).
I fear this, plus the lack of partner for Vetokele is why we're not pushing on. If we can address these areas, then I think we can really push on
With BP seemingly still to be convinced by George, I believe we have the players to set up 4-2-3-1, with Buyens and Cousins both sitting, and JBG and Bulot playing narrow wide with JJ as the attacking midfielder centrally.
That would give protection to the defence when defending and free one of the DMs to push up and join JJ when attacking.
Igor would still have to be the forward fulcrum but would be better supported, especially if one of the FBs overlaps into the empty wide space (defensively covered by the sitting DM moving across).
The AMs would be in position to make forward runs past Igor - and in that role JJ wouldn't need to do so much defensive covering and tracking, allowing him the energy to make his trademark late runs into the box.
He is the attacking midfielder but he can't because he don't have the legs so we end up with two defensive mid players ... Again. Proved how it should work on Saturday when Cousins moved in ...gave Buyons more space to dictate play ........ Jackson becoming the new Andy Peake
Sorry rose-tinted Colin, Buyens can't dictate play because he spends most of his time playing triangles with the central defenders, and as each match passes, to less and less effect. That leaves JJ to chase in midfield and make runs forward. But why should he bother as the ball never gets forward, at least not in time to make those runs effective.
Going by the last few games, I think we've been overrun in the centre.
We've been over run in the centre midfield because our 2 CMs have invariably been matched with our opponent's 3 CMs.
It's a difficult one. Would you suggest a central midfield three of Buyens, JJ & Cousins. This would accommodate all 3 in their preferred roles, but would then add extra pressure on Vetokele. I think BB will continue as is, I would just like to see the Buyens/Cousins partnership. You've also got the problem of JJ being captain as well. It's not usual to drop your captain (an excellent one at that).
I fear this, plus the lack of partner for Vetokele is why we're not pushing on. If we can address these areas, then I think we can really push on
With BP seemingly still to be convinced by George, I believe we have the players to set up 4-2-3-1, with Buyens and Cousins both sitting, and JBG and Bulot playing narrow wide with JJ as the attacking midfielder centrally.
That would give protection to the defence when defending and free one of the DMs to push up and join JJ when attacking.
Igor would still have to be the forward fulcrum but would be better supported, especially if one of the FBs overlaps into the empty wide space (defensively covered by the sitting DM moving across).
The AMs would be in position to make forward runs past Igor - and in that role JJ wouldn't need to do so much defensive covering and tracking, allowing him the energy to make his trademark late runs into the box.
This is a good way to approach it. Hopefully JJ will then as you say make his move forward. I don't think the current set up will sustain it
I think Jackson has still got something to offer and I don't think he's "lost his legs/pace". People have claimed that every year but I'm not sure he looks any slower than he used to be, I'm also not seeing a player that has lost his fitness.
Saying that I would like to see how we do with Buyens and Cousins in CM and more natural wide players on the wings. I'm not convinced we'll definitely be weaker without him there.
I can see Jackson losing his place this season or next. That'll probably be because we have better players, whether we've signed them or Cousins or someone else pushes on.
Having seen Vetokele up front on his own I'm not keen on us playing any variant of 4-5-1. While he is fairly strong he struggled because it was easy for Boro to crowd him out. It may work at times, we often replaced Tucudean with Moussa in the first few games, but that was when we were winning and playing on the counter attack. There was space for both of them to run into or try to turn the defender. Very different to trying to hold up the ball with two big centre backs working together to win it.
Hex look at the stats 66 mins was the first time Saturday JJ passed a ball forward ... Just Adds nothing to the team and not helping Buyons at all ... The diff Saturday was there for all to see JJ is div one level
probably because there was no forward option?
Yoni Buyens should be getting spanked after Saturday's performance, not Jackson.
Luckily Jackson is playing in Div One.
This is what i dont understand with many who believe Buyens has been playing well. every game i see him he fails to distribute the ball forward. he even looks a bit like Ray 'the crab' wilkins.
I think Jackson has still got something to offer and I don't think he's "lost his legs/pace". People have claimed that every year but I'm not sure he looks any slower than he used to be, I'm also not seeing a player that has lost his fitness.
Saying that I would like to see how we do with Buyens and Cousins in CM and more natural wide players on the wings. I'm not convinced we'll definitely be weaker without him there.
I can see Jackson losing his place this season or next. That'll probably be because we have better players, whether we've signed them or Cousins or someone else pushes on.
Having seen Vetokele up front on his own I'm not keen on us playing any variant of 4-5-1. While he is fairly strong he struggled because it was easy for Boro to crowd him out. It may work at times, we often replaced Tucudean with Moussa in the first few games, but that was when we were winning and playing on the counter attack. There was space for both of them to run into or try to turn the defender. Very different to trying to hold up the ball with two big centre backs working together to win it.
All very valid points.
JJ isn't undroppable and never has been.
People like Colin have been writing him off since before the League 1 Championship season but he still has something to offer. Maybe Cousins and Buyins will be better but that doesn't mean jackson's "time is up" as the thread title suggests.
When Powell played him it was supposedly because he was a "favourite" and for no other reason. But then Riga kept picking him and now Peeters keeps picking him.
So that tells me that he may not be the best option or the best player but those managers clearly see something that he has to offer the squad and the first team.
One last thing. There were just 10 minutes between JJ going off and Adomah being sent off. So all this "we were so much better when he went off" is 10 minutes. Of course we looked better against 10 very tired men. A rather limited amount of time on which to decide that JJ is finished but for some they have written him off years ago and even if he scores two v Norwich they will complain it wasn't a hat-trick.
Jackson has the highest pass accuracy + most chances created (key passes) of any other player in the squad.
There's life in the old dog yet...
I'm not especially convinced by these stats. One assist, which is I guess the corner at Brentford (hence no assists from open play, no assists in past 8 games). Considerably fewer passes than Yoni, which squares with what I've seen - the game just passes him by all too often.
I'd like to see Jordan & Yoni as a pairing, and Jacko as an impact sub...not my any means discarded altogether...
Jackson is the best captain we've had since Kinsella, and is still a player who is likely to make an impact at a critical moment, whether it's defensive or attacking. Consecutive managers keep picking him for a reason.
Comments
Yoni Buyens should be getting spanked after Saturday's performance, not Jackson.
Luckily Jackson is playing in Div One.
It also doesn't help that we have no-one who can hold the ball up front. Vetokele is a wonderful footballer but that's not his strength, and George hasn't shown he's the solution (yet). It means that the midfield have a big gap to make up and neither Buyens nor Jackson are quick. The former had a mare yesterday, barely a pass went to a red shirt, and whilst I think there's a lot to be said for Cousins moving inside I think we need Buyens to be ticking if that's going to be a success.
There are better players all round Jacko now, so he's not standing out like he has done in the previous 2-3 seasons. Even so he still has a lot to offer - some of his forward play on Saturday was very good indeed - and all this pace stuff is frankly nonsense because he's never had any. What he is is the one leader we have out there, and that's why we tend to look worse when he's not in the side. Until we look better without him, the idea of putting him out to pasture is, in my view, ridiculous.
I fear this, plus the lack of partner for Vetokele is why we're not pushing on. If we can address these areas, then I think we can really push on
Based on the last few games, I would definitely have Lawrie Wilson starting on the right wing, and switch Gudmundsson to the left.
Seems the defender at the start sussed that Cousins only had a right foot and cut him off every single time.
With BP seemingly still to be convinced by George, I believe we have the players to set up 4-2-3-1, with Buyens and Cousins both sitting, and JBG and Bulot playing narrow wide with JJ as the attacking midfielder centrally.
That would give protection to the defence when defending and free one of the DMs to push up and join JJ when attacking.
Igor would still have to be the forward fulcrum but would be better supported, especially if one of the FBs overlaps into the empty wide space (defensively covered by the sitting DM moving across).
The AMs would be in position to make forward runs past Igor - and in that role JJ wouldn't need to do so much defensive covering and tracking, allowing him the energy to make his trademark late runs into the box.
Saying that I would like to see how we do with Buyens and Cousins in CM and more natural wide players on the wings. I'm not convinced we'll definitely be weaker without him there.
I can see Jackson losing his place this season or next. That'll probably be because we have better players, whether we've signed them or Cousins or someone else pushes on.
Having seen Vetokele up front on his own I'm not keen on us playing any variant of 4-5-1. While he is fairly strong he struggled because it was easy for Boro to crowd him out. It may work at times, we often replaced Tucudean with Moussa in the first few games, but that was when we were winning and playing on the counter attack. There was space for both of them to run into or try to turn the defender. Very different to trying to hold up the ball with two big centre backs working together to win it.
JJ isn't undroppable and never has been.
People like Colin have been writing him off since before the League 1 Championship season but he still has something to offer. Maybe Cousins and Buyins will be better but that doesn't mean jackson's "time is up" as the thread title suggests.
When Powell played him it was supposedly because he was a "favourite" and for no other reason. But then Riga kept picking him and now Peeters keeps picking him.
So that tells me that he may not be the best option or the best player but those managers clearly see something that he has to offer the squad and the first team.
One last thing. There were just 10 minutes between JJ going off and Adomah being sent off. So all this "we were so much better when he went off" is 10 minutes. Of course we looked better against 10 very tired men. A rather limited amount of time on which to decide that JJ is finished but for some they have written him off years ago and even if he scores two v Norwich they will complain it wasn't a hat-trick.
^ From stats website Squawka.
Jackson has the highest pass accuracy + most chances created (key passes) of any other player in the squad.
There's life in the old dog yet...
I'd like to see Jordan & Yoni as a pairing, and Jacko as an impact sub...not my any means discarded altogether...