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Possible rotated teams for 2 games in 72 hours
Richard J
Posts: 8,040
With the Saturday / Monday switch I would suggest the following teams.Players like Jackson clearly cannot play two games in 72 hours and personally I believe we need to prioritise the QPR game. In my teams I have only picked Thuram ,Wilson and Astrit to start both games.
It is interesting but in the 70's I remember one legendary Easter weekend when we beat Millwall 3-2 on Good Friday,drew with Orient away 0-0 the next day before the legendary Bank Holiday Monday 4-0 win over Chelsea. I don't off the top of my head recall Andy Nelson significantly rotating any players that weekend and also remember we only had access to one sub in those days.
Clearly fitness levels have improved since then and the scientific methods used now were starting to be discussedthen,but I would interested in how fellow older fans remember sequences like the one I detail above.Personally I was only about 10 or 11 at the time and wouldn't have dreamed about discussing resting players like Mike Flanagan for such an important sequence of matches.
QPR
........................Thuram
Nego Morrison Wood Wiggins (if fit)
Wilson Cousins Poyet Astrit
........... Reza Sordell
Massives
.......................Thuram
Wilson Dervite Lennon Fox
Green Pritchard Jackson Harriott
Astrit
Church
It is interesting but in the 70's I remember one legendary Easter weekend when we beat Millwall 3-2 on Good Friday,drew with Orient away 0-0 the next day before the legendary Bank Holiday Monday 4-0 win over Chelsea. I don't off the top of my head recall Andy Nelson significantly rotating any players that weekend and also remember we only had access to one sub in those days.
Clearly fitness levels have improved since then and the scientific methods used now were starting to be discussedthen,but I would interested in how fellow older fans remember sequences like the one I detail above.Personally I was only about 10 or 11 at the time and wouldn't have dreamed about discussing resting players like Mike Flanagan for such an important sequence of matches.
QPR
........................Thuram
Nego Morrison Wood Wiggins (if fit)
Wilson Cousins Poyet Astrit
........... Reza Sordell
Massives
.......................Thuram
Wilson Dervite Lennon Fox
Green Pritchard Jackson Harriott
Astrit
Church
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Comments
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Pick the same team for both matches... Builds confidence if we win either (or it gets the players used to each other if we lose either)...
As you say fitness levels are a lot different these days so the players should be fit (and they've barely had any game time this year anyway)0 -
it's Saturday/Tuesday anyway. We have hardly played recently so we should be fit as daisy's. anyway they better get used to it as it could get worse yet.2
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If professional footballers can't manage to play 2 games inside 72 hours then they're in the wrong game imo.5
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Its Sat/MonLargeAddick said:it's Saturday/Tuesday anyway. We have hardly played recently so we should be fit as daisy's. anyway they better get used to it as it could get worse yet.
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Its not a case of 'can't manage', its more a scientifical question. I'm sure with the sports science depts in clubs now, they'll know the answer to this stuff, but i'd be interested where players play 2 games in three days, how comparable the stats for their sharpness, distance covered, pass completion, tackles made etc are.chester_conrad said:If professional footballers can't manage to play 2 games inside 72 hours then they're in the wrong game imo.
You forget, the majority of our squad will not be going into next week in peak match sharpness condition, that also has to be accounted for as well.
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Strongest team for both games. Hopefully we can bring a couple of loans in to play vs QPR. This season we've been pretty hopeless at getting a result playing one game a week so playing in quick succession might do us a favour!1
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I expect the strongest possible team in both games with minimal changes, they can play twice in 72 hours no problem....we've barely played this year!0
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Play 2 strongest teams and make subs against Sheff Wed earlier if fitness levels drop2
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yes, sorry, just caught up with the other thread.eaststandmike said:
Its Sat/MonLargeAddick said:it's Saturday/Tuesday anyway. We have hardly played recently so we should be fit as daisy's. anyway they better get used to it as it could get worse yet.
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Here's the science on too many games in too many days
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/dec/22/premier-league-winter-break-england1 -
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With that second team you are basically raising the white flag for the cup because that line up is absolutely shit!
Professional players in this day and age should be able to play 2 games in 2 days.0 -
QPR-
Thuram
Wilson-Morrison-Wood-Wiggins(if fit)
Poyet-Cousins
Ajdarevic
Reza Harriott/Koc
Pete the Pole
Wendys-
Hamer/Thuram
Wilson-Morrison-Dervite-Lennon-Evina/Fox
Jackson-Ajdarevic-Hollands perhaps
Sordell-Church
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That 2nd team midfield
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Elthamaddick said:
I expect the strongest possible team in both games
You forget that not one of us, including out manager, has a clue what our 'strongest team' is, particularly with huge unknowns still around players like Reza, Peter Parsley, Nego, Fox, Lennon, Poyet, Koc, Thuram, and when available again the comparable fitness of players like Wiggins, Solly, Cort, Hamer..
I keep getting excited about 'cup stuff' but then i keep slapping myself round the chops that squad wise, fixture wise, league position wise, we appear to be in a right two and eight......
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It is the same for Wednesday though0
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Forget all this Cup nonsense, or next year we will be playing Wimbledon in the paint pot trophy !0
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so we can't play on a CL night even though we are not on TV? Have I got that right?0
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Play the strongest team in both, as much as i love SCP, if he planned to play a weakened side against Wednesday when we now have a serious chance at an FA Cup semi final, im not sure i could forgive him for that.
If we go out that is life but i want to know we gave it our best go as when are we gonna get another chance like this.4 -
Has any team ever won the FA Cup one year then the JPT the next?Valiantphil said:Forget all this Cup nonsense, or next year we will be playing Wimbledon in the paint pot trophy !
We could be aiming for a first.....
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This - although the league has to take priority now unfortunately. QPR can be beaten.ForeverAddickted said:Pick the same team for both matches... Builds confidence if we win either (or it gets the players used to each other if we lose either)...
As you say fitness levels are a lot different these days so the players should be fit (and they've barely had any game time this year anyway)1 -
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Man, you are not thinking straight, we'll get knocked out in the southern section 1st round.stackitsteve said:
Has any team ever won the FA Cup one year then the JPT the next?Valiantphil said:Forget all this Cup nonsense, or next year we will be playing Wimbledon in the paint pot trophy !
We could be aiming for a first.....0 -
Thanks Afka and Rothko for that info.This is a very interesting debate because a few years ago I would have been in the play the strongest team camp , partly due to the scenario I describe above of that magical Easter in the 70's. My view has changed completely particularly when I heard Gary Neville discuss Chelsea in the season they won the Champions League but flopped to 5th in the Prem.
His explanation was that the core of their team key players like Cech,Cole,Essien,Terry,Lampard and Drogba had been allowed to grow older together and all of them needed to be rested occasionally.He went on to draw from his personal experience of when he was in the core of Ferguson's all conquering Man Utd team.
Neville said there were 7 or 8 key players who were rarely rested but the rest of the team rotated around them. The difference was in his opinion is that he and his colleagues were all at the peak of their careers at around 25-31.Neville said that when he hit 32 his fitness was still good but his recovery time was much slower and by the time he hit 36 he could only play 1 full game a week without it affecting his performance.
It is interesting that the science in Rothko's post shows that the 3rd day between games is vital in the recovery. We must also remember that although the Massives also play on the Saturday we will have the long coach journey to contend with on Sunday as well.
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If I were CP I'd travel up Saturday evening, heads down for the night, lie in on Sunday, prepare for the game, ready for Monday.2
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I remember the Walsall Easter Monday home game in our promotion season, following a Saturday game where we'd gone down to 9 men (and still won!)
The side was about the same, but looked very lethargic, and struggled to a dull 1-0 win against a relegation threatened side.
Might be different, with the adrenaline of the Cup?0 -
In 1976, two researchers* concluded that top-flight footballers covered between 8km and 11km in a match. Last weekend, Noble, Nolan (West Ham), Snodgrass (Norwich), Noone (Cardiff), Matic (Chelsea), Arteta (Arsenal), Carrick, Rooney (Man Utd), Holtby, Kvist, Sidwell, Tunnicliffe (Fulham), Henderson, Gerard, Coutinho (Liverpool), Bentaleb (Spurs), Crouch (Stoke), Herrera, Rangel, Routledge (Swansea) each covered more than 11.5km**. Even though current players cover greater distances than their 70s counterparts, it would still be possible for them to play more frequently. But their performance stats *will* reduce without sufficient rest. I have never run 11.5km, but if I did, and I tried to do it again two days later, I suspect I wouldn't feel 100% sharp when I started.AFKABartram said:
Its not a case of 'can't manage', its more a scientifical question. I'm sure with the sports science depts in clubs now, they'll know the answer to this stuff, but i'd be interested where players play 2 games in three days, how comparable the stats for their sharpness, distance covered, pass completion, tackles made etc are.chester_conrad said:If professional footballers can't manage to play 2 games inside 72 hours then they're in the wrong game imo.
You forget, the majority of our squad will not be going into next week in peak match sharpness condition, that also has to be accounted for as well.
As well as the distances being greater, the intensity is greater too. For example, Koulossa and Brunt for West Brom against Chelsea completed 55 and 58 sprints respectively (Koulossa in only 78 minutes of playing time)**. Again, it's totally possible to play again a couple of days later, but not to the same intesity or result. You wouldn't expect Usain Bolt to be able to win Olympic Gold on a Saturday and then sprint a better time 48 hours later.
Rest is required between matches, not least in order to replace the used-up phosphate and oxygen stores in the muscles and to help remove any lactate and hydrogen ion by-products. This is why the day *after* a match is usually devoted to low-intensity training, instead of high-intensity fitness. The day *before* a match is also usually low-intensity, in part to prevent pre-match injury and to ensure there is no build up of lactic acid in the muscles prior to match day. So, players playing on a Saturday and Monday will have no time to improve their fitness between matches.
It makes no difference whether the player is "professional" or not. Too many matches with too little rest will have a detrimental effect on performance.
*REILLY, T. and THOMAS, V. (1976) A motion analysis of work rate in different positional roles in pro football match-play. Journal of Human Movement Studies, 2, p. 87-97.
** Source: EA SPORTS Player Performance Index
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We should play out best team for QPR as even a draw could well mean the difference between staying up or going down and then the players fitness should be assessed on the Monday before deciding which of them travel to Sheffield.
Even if Sheffield didn't have enough of an advantage with having four wins and four draws in the last nine they have home advantage and are only at Huddersfield on the Saturday.
Frankly, making us play on the Monday after a crucial league game on the Saturday and having to travel the day after (probably) gives Wednesday a massive advantage over us. They could even rest some players on the Saturday as they have a 9 point gap to the bottom three.
I didn't think we would beat them, but I'm even more convinced we won't now!0 -
We do have a much younger side now. Maybe that will be an advatage?0
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We should be playing our strongest team for both matches. Wednesday are also playing this weekend so it's not as if they have extra rest. Teams cope perfectly well when they play games in quick succession at xmas and easter, this is no different.
We've played one game since the 1st Feb and some of the new signings like Reza and Astrit have barely played in recent months.
Quite simply, our squad are much fresher than Wednesday's and can't possibly use tiredness as any kind of excuse.2 -
if we did bring 2/3 loanees this week i assume they would be aimed at the 1st team and would likley play against QPR, i also assume however they would not be elligable against Sheff Wed as they would not have been signed in time for the original game so that would potentially help from a "forced arm" perspective.0
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Massives also playing Derby tomorrow0
