I really don't think selling yann was anything to do with tactics or RD seeing we play too much "hoofball" (sic) and deciding to make CP change tactics. It was purely a financial decision based on age/wages/fee and YK attitude.
You might want to think that but I really don't think that is true or see any evidence of it. We still play long balls out of defence when we need to and did it frequently v Wednesday. We did it v Birmingham too but as we lost that game it isn't being cited as proof.
What has changed is that we won two games.
Two very good wins against a QPR side on a bad run without Charlie Austin to finish their chances and against Wednesday missing a number of good players who were totally surprised by our tactics (or should I say CP's tactics).
Not knocking it as you can only beat the team you are playing. We played well and deserved to win but because we won people are saying "Powell got it right". If we hadn't then the very same decisions, subs and tactics would have been wrong in those same people's minds.
Some things have fallen into place which are helping. Wiggins was available again v QPR, Wilson is in great form, Poyet has stepped up, Harriot has found the form he had last season but had lost early this season. Who knows why? Wife pregnant? 2nd season syndrome, got too big for his boots? Who knows? AA arrived giving us a different option, Hamer is fit again. So many variables and in a league and cup when the margins are tiny just one or two of those for or against us can be the difference between winning and drawing.
Powell has not suddenly become a better manager in the past 6 days, he has not changed his philosophy or his advisors. He had not stopped being "a clueless clown" or "tactically naive" because he never was either of those things.
But when we lose a game (because sooner or later we will lose) the same lame accusations will be thrown at Chris. That is as sad as it predictable but it will happen.
I have no idea, I used it as a hypothetical. But I could understand an outsider (without any attachment to Yann) seeing things in that way.
RD is not a football tactician. He is a businessman so the idea that he would sell a player because of the style of football is illogical. It came down to terms and conditions. Yann was a 32 year old with a recent patchy health record who (it seems) wanted more than RD felt he was worth so Yann left That is fair on both sides and works in every market place. In my opinion this season Yann was far less mobile than before and was drifting out of games more than he had done. Mind you I'll miss those free kicks!!
As I said, I just used it as a hypothetical to try to show how sometimes it can pay to listen to others views, be they critical or full of praise. Because sometimes amongst all the crap, is a gold nugget that can totally change a course of events and provide a eureka moment. Obviously RD wouldn't have bought Peter Parsley if he wanted to avoid playing with another target man.
As I said, I just used it as a hypothetical to try to show how sometimes it can pay to listen to others views, be they critical or full of praise. Because sometimes amongst all the crap, is a gold nugget that can totally change a course of events and provide a eureka moment. Obviously RD wouldn't have bought Peter Parsley if he wanted to avoid playing with another target man.
But you are making a huge assumption that Powell has never listened to the views of others before and has only just started to do so in the last week.
on paper 6 wins in 29 games isn't good enough. thats the view i would take if i was a non-charlton supporter.
however, i can't believe that actual fans who realise the constraints that CP has had this season would think that his job hasn't been ridiculously difficult.
sometimes after a defeat its easy to think maybe he isn't the man, and that someone with new ideas would be welcome. but then you calm down and realise that any new manager would have the same constraints but only 1% the passion and love for the club that CP has.
If we stay up and we appear in a Wembley semi-final, then CP has done a better job than the L1 season and last season combined.
It will be interesting to see where the Wembley push and the QPR result puts CP's negotiations. Football success and failure is a fine dividing line and but for the late goal by JJ, and the referee construing the elbow as hand ball, I am sure there would have been a different temperature on here. I am not a CP disciple but like Parkie, I think he has been dealt a poor hand and deserves a contract to the end of 2015 season, in better circumstances.
However, RD also has the right to set up his management structure the way he feels fit and it is this which may be precluding the signature of a deal. CP has through luck or skill (Both of which are needed by a manager) responded so far with results and good team selections and it will be interesting to see how the negotiations go.
The cup run, which someone has said has the potential to net £2mill, significantly off sets the reduced income that a drop to Div 1 would result in IF we were to stay one season. Not sure if that is a negative for CP's contract or not.
All these folks who bang on about the mistakes Powell has made. How the f*ck would they know anyway? Football's a game of opinions and we all know they're like a*seholes in that everyone has one but it really irks me when the critics write as if it's a statement of fact that Powell has been tacticially naive or made mistakes when all he's actually guilty of is not taking the same action that they would have. There's no verifiable correct answer, truth is we'll never know what would have happened had we taken the doubters' approach, I know that I'd back Powell to outperform them though.
You can only really judge the manager on the results that he's achieved with the resources that he's had to hand.
In terms of putting together a squad of his choosing, Powell has only ever been supported once. He could barely have gathered more points and plaudits that year. Since then he has been battling inner turmoil at the club where the squad has been progressively weakened and players demotivated by uncertainty around contracts and other behind the scenes shenanigans.
Still, last year he took what was essentially a League One squad and finished 9th. This season's been a struggle but even now we're pretty much in the same position as we'd sit if you ranked teams in order of their annual wage bill. And we're not done yet.
The Premier League years have left a lot of Charlton fans with a warped sense of perspective and a touch of Spurs Syndrome. We have no God given right to finish near the top of this league and in fact, our investment levels see us with a playing staff that shouldn't really finish any higher than the lower echelons of it. The youngsters coming through, a couple of the recent additions and the team spirit that Powell has cultivated should be enough to see us through and allow us to punch above our weight but there's many who seem to be looking to write off Powell's contribution to any of this.
I'm not saying he's perfect, of course he's made mistakes but the fact that we've lost a game or he hasn't picked the XI that you would have or made subs when you would have liked doesn't necessarily provide evidence of this. And when he does make mistakes, I for one am happy to see him given more leeway than most would be, because of his history with the club, because of the man that he is and because his record actually speaks for itself, he has outperformed my expectations in each of his full seasons in charge.
As I said, I just used it as a hypothetical to try to show how sometimes it can pay to listen to others views, be they critical or full of praise. Because sometimes amongst all the crap, is a gold nugget that can totally change a course of events and provide a eureka moment. Obviously RD wouldn't have bought Peter Parsley if he wanted to avoid playing with another target man.
But you are making a huge assumption that Powell has never listened to the views of others before and has only just started to do so in the last week.
I'm not assuming that at all. The point of my posts are in defense of people on this forum who get castigated from time to time for daring to criticise Powell and offer alternative ideas. I think constructive criticism has a valuable role to play and I'm not talking about people who abuse him or call for his sacking.
Genuine question Vincent, what did you find to complain about when we finished 7th in the prem?
Genuine answer There was nothing to complain about Curbs, Murray and Varney did a fantastic job for Charlton and I don't expect to see that level of success in my life time.
My view on CP will change if we carry on getting results like the last two. Before the QPR game it was claimed that Chris had been left with a weakened team since the January window closed. This has been proven wrong and we have a team to escape the drop zone and get to Wembley. He still has a way to go to prove he has the ability to improve and until then my battle with the love children will go on. Either way we all support Charlton with a passion regardless of our views on Powell, Thuam, Hamer, the pitch or the pies
So let me get this right.
When things were not going well, it was because CP is a bad manager. However the last two results are not anything to do with CP, but because the squad has been mysteriously 'strengthened' ? Despite the fact that last night the only player on view from the 'strengthening' was Ajdarevic?
The trouble with the "battle" that you and people like you choose to wage is that it is not based on any rational argument.
My view on CP will change if we carry on getting results like the last two. Before the QPR game it was claimed that Chris had been left with a weakened team since the January window closed. This has been proven wrong and we have a team to escape the drop zone and get to Wembley. He still has a way to go to prove he has the ability to improve and until then my battle with the love children will go on. Either way we all support Charlton with a passion regardless of our views on Powell, Thuam, Hamer, the pitch or the pies
So let me get this right.
When things were not going well, it was because CP is a bad manager. However the last two results are not anything to do with CP, but because the squad has been mysteriously 'strengthened' ? Despite the fact that last night the only player on view from the 'strengthening' was Ajdarevic?
The trouble with the "battle" that you and people like you choose to wage is that it is not based on any rational argument.
Sorry you got it wrong
Powell has a long way to go before he or anyone else for that matter can say things are going well. There is no mystery about the strengthening of the squad. I acknowledge the part that CP has made over the past two wow two games but will not change my opinion unless he proves that he has the ability to improve and as I have said I think we will get to Wembley and stay up. The battle what battle I would only enter into battle if there were an enermy worth fighting. People like by that you mean anyone not thinking that 6 wins out of 29 is not good enough and dare voice their concerns.
Please join the list of those who ignore me then I will have achieved something again tonight.
Can I have your Wembley ticket if we get there?
No if we are going to Wembley and having missed only 1 home game since Powell became manager why do you think I would miss this. Chizz take note that if we get to the final I will get and pay for your ticket
Apologies in advance for being a sentimental old fool!
Firstly, any manager, in any walk of life, can only work with the team he or she has at their disposal. Any success achieved is 99% down to the people they manage and the manager's role is to get the best out of the resources available. I find it hard to believe that anyone else could have got better out of the squad Chris has had to work with. Let's not overestimate the influence a football manager has in being able to make silk purses out of sows' ears.
I am the proud father of two wonderful sons who have been Charlton supporters all their lives (didn't have a choice!). They are much older now but still just as passionate as ther old man about our great club.
As a father, like all of us, we try to expose our children to positive role models, and hopefully as parents we are also seen and behave as such. Now, I'm sure you would agree that searching for role models amongst the ranks of professional footballers is a tough ask! One man sticks out in my mind above pretty much all other footballers I have known or been aware of - and that man is Chris Powell. Throughout his playing career he conducted himself with dignity and professionalism at all times and that has continued into his management career. I have held Chris up as a role model for my sons to look towards with both pride and pleasure. He is a highest quality human being and I'm deeply proud he is our manager.
I know all fans claim that their club is special (and I don't mean success on the pitch) but with our history and philosophy I believe we can make that claim with confidence. I want my club to be run by a man who both shares that philosophy but also demonstrates freely and genuinely that he feels the same way as I do. I want a manager to feel it personally and emotionally because the club means that much to him.
If you look at the replay of Chris at the end of the celebrations on Monday you will see him wiping a tear from his eye as he walks towards the tunnel after his 'love-in' with us fans. That's personal. For the vast majority of football managers wiping a tear away from their eyes after celebrating a win would be based on relief that they will still be able to draw their over-inflated salaries. Personally, I don't want any of those mercenaries anywhere near my club.
Apologies in advance for being a sentimental old fool!
Firstly, any manager, in any walk of life, can only work with the team he or she has at their disposal. Any success achieved is 99% down to the people they manage and the manager's role is to get the best out of the resources available. I find it hard to believe that anyone else could have got better out of the squad Chris has had to work with. Let's not overestimate the influence a football manager has in being able to make silk purses out of sows' ears.
I am the proud father of two wonderful sons who have been Charlton supporters all their lives (didn't have a choice!). They are much older now but still just as passionate as ther old man about our great club.
As a father, like all of us, we try to expose our children to positive role models, and hopefully as parents we are also seen and behave as such. Now, I'm sure you would agree that searching for role models amongst the ranks of professional footballers is a tough ask! One man sticks out in my mind above pretty much all other footballers I have known or been aware of - and that man is Chris Powell. Throughout his playing career he conducted himself with dignity and professionalism at all times and that has continued into his management career. I have held Chris up as a role model for my sons to look towards with both pride and pleasure. He is a highest quality human being and I'm deeply proud he is our manager.
I know all fans claim that their club is special (and I don't mean success on the pitch) but with our history and philosophy I believe we can make that claim with confidence. I want my club to be run by a man who both shares that philosophy but also demonstrates freely and genuinely that he feels the same way as I do. I want a manager to feel it personally and emotionally because the club means that much to him.
If you look at the replay of Chris at the end of the celebrations on Monday you will see him wiping a tear from his eye as he walks towards the tunnel after his 'love-in' with us fans. That's personal. For the vast majority of football managers wiping a tear away from their eyes after celebrating a win would be based on relief that they will still be able to draw their over-inflated salaries. Personally, I don't want any of those mercenaries anywhere near my club.
Top post. He's right up there with my idol as a kid, keithie Peacock. That kind of loyalty and passion is far too rare these days.
It is a good point, about what do we know. Football is a game of opinions and if we weren’t allowed to have them because we are not qualified it wouldn’t be half as much fun. Imagine the pub discussion, about what we should do to improve then somebody says- no point the manager knows more than us – oh er- ok – let’s talk about the weather! I was watching Manure last night and felt the big issue for Moyes is a defensive one– that is where it is going wrong. But am I more qualified than the Manure manager to know what is going wrong? – of course not – but it isn’t going to stop me thinking it. And it doesn’t mean I am wrong though – Moyes might understand this is the issue too, but knowing the problem and what to do about it is a different matter.
Then you have managers who are a bit cautious and who are a bit adventurous. Holloway is a manager who doesn’t wait and see- if the signs are there- or what he thinks the signs are, he makes the change. Powell is more analytical and wants to be sure he is making the right change. Of course as fans, we will either be closer to one type than the other and if we lose, we have the benefit of hindsight. I am more a change it straight away merchant, so will be critical when I feel Chrissy takes too long – but it doesn’t mean I am right as we will never know what would have happened had a different change been made sooner – we only know the change that was made worked or didn’t work.
Of course we have our beliefs so will be critical when we lose and we think we could have done more to prevent it. And a manager can learn and change through experience. Some of the challenges Chrissy is facing are new. In League One we were a big side- In the Championship we are one of the smaller ones resource wise. What works in one league may not work so well in others.
The upshot of all that is – I will continue to be critical of Chrissy’s tactics when I think that criticism is warranted. Whether I am right or wrong. But, I also know that he is the right man for the job for a whole host of reasons and it is against the interests of the club to replace him. I think RD will learn this as he gets to know Chrissy more. I certainly hope so.
Comments
You might want to think that but I really don't think that is true or see any evidence of it. We still play long balls out of defence when we need to and did it frequently v Wednesday. We did it v Birmingham too but as we lost that game it isn't being cited as proof.
What has changed is that we won two games.
Two very good wins against a QPR side on a bad run without Charlie Austin to finish their chances and against Wednesday missing a number of good players who were totally surprised by our tactics (or should I say CP's tactics).
Not knocking it as you can only beat the team you are playing. We played well and deserved to win but because we won people are saying "Powell got it right". If we hadn't then the very same decisions, subs and tactics would have been wrong in those same people's minds.
Some things have fallen into place which are helping. Wiggins was available again v QPR, Wilson is in great form, Poyet has stepped up, Harriot has found the form he had last season but had lost early this season. Who knows why? Wife pregnant? 2nd season syndrome, got too big for his boots? Who knows? AA arrived giving us a different option, Hamer is fit again. So many variables and in a league and cup when the margins are tiny just one or two of those for or against us can be the difference between winning and drawing.
Powell has not suddenly become a better manager in the past 6 days, he has not changed his philosophy or his advisors. He had not stopped being "a clueless clown" or "tactically naive" because he never was either of those things.
But when we lose a game (because sooner or later we will lose) the same lame accusations will be thrown at Chris. That is as sad as it predictable but it will happen.
however, i can't believe that actual fans who realise the constraints that CP has had this season would think that his job hasn't been ridiculously difficult.
sometimes after a defeat its easy to think maybe he isn't the man, and that someone with new ideas would be welcome. but then you calm down and realise that any new manager would have the same constraints but only 1% the passion and love for the club that CP has.
If we stay up and we appear in a Wembley semi-final, then CP has done a better job than the L1 season and last season combined.
However, RD also has the right to set up his management structure the way he feels fit and it is this which may be precluding the signature of a deal. CP has through luck or skill (Both of which are needed by a manager) responded so far with results and good team selections and it will be interesting to see how the negotiations go.
The cup run, which someone has said has the potential to net £2mill, significantly off sets the reduced income that a drop to Div 1 would result in IF we were to stay one season. Not sure if that is a negative for CP's contract or not.
You can only really judge the manager on the results that he's achieved with the resources that he's had to hand.
In terms of putting together a squad of his choosing, Powell has only ever been supported once. He could barely have gathered more points and plaudits that year. Since then he has been battling inner turmoil at the club where the squad has been progressively weakened and players demotivated by uncertainty around contracts and other behind the scenes shenanigans.
Still, last year he took what was essentially a League One squad and finished 9th. This season's been a struggle but even now we're pretty much in the same position as we'd sit if you ranked teams in order of their annual wage bill. And we're not done yet.
The Premier League years have left a lot of Charlton fans with a warped sense of perspective and a touch of Spurs Syndrome. We have no God given right to finish near the top of this league and in fact, our investment levels see us with a playing staff that shouldn't really finish any higher than the lower echelons of it. The youngsters coming through, a couple of the recent additions and the team spirit that Powell has cultivated should be enough to see us through and allow us to punch above our weight but there's many who seem to be looking to write off Powell's contribution to any of this.
I'm not saying he's perfect, of course he's made mistakes but the fact that we've lost a game or he hasn't picked the XI that you would have or made subs when you would have liked doesn't necessarily provide evidence of this. And when he does make mistakes, I for one am happy to see him given more leeway than most would be, because of his history with the club, because of the man that he is and because his record actually speaks for itself, he has outperformed my expectations in each of his full seasons in charge.
Curbs, Murray and Varney did a fantastic job for Charlton and I don't expect to see that level of success in my life time.
Chizz take note that if we get to the final I will get and pay for your ticket
Firstly, any manager, in any walk of life, can only work with the team he or she has at their disposal. Any success achieved is 99% down to the people they manage and the manager's role is to get the best out of the resources available. I find it hard to believe that anyone else could have got better out of the squad Chris has had to work with. Let's not overestimate the influence a football manager has in being able to make silk purses out of sows' ears.
I am the proud father of two wonderful sons who have been Charlton supporters all their lives (didn't have a choice!). They are much older now but still just as passionate as ther old man about our great club.
As a father, like all of us, we try to expose our children to positive role models, and hopefully as parents we are also seen and behave as such. Now, I'm sure you would agree that searching for role models amongst the ranks of professional footballers is a tough ask! One man sticks out in my mind above pretty much all other footballers I have known or been aware of - and that man is Chris Powell. Throughout his playing career he conducted himself with dignity and professionalism at all times and that has continued into his management career. I have held Chris up as a role model for my sons to look towards with both pride and pleasure. He is a highest quality human being and I'm deeply proud he is our manager.
I know all fans claim that their club is special (and I don't mean success on the pitch) but with our history and philosophy I believe we can make that claim with confidence. I want my club to be run by a man who both shares that philosophy but also demonstrates freely and genuinely that he feels the same way as I do. I want a manager to feel it personally and emotionally because the club means that much to him.
If you look at the replay of Chris at the end of the celebrations on Monday you will see him wiping a tear from his eye as he walks towards the tunnel after his 'love-in' with us fans. That's personal. For the vast majority of football managers wiping a tear away from their eyes after celebrating a win would be based on relief that they will still be able to draw their over-inflated salaries. Personally, I don't want any of those mercenaries anywhere near my club.
Then you have managers who are a bit cautious and who are a bit adventurous. Holloway is a manager who doesn’t wait and see- if the signs are there- or what he thinks the signs are, he makes the change. Powell is more analytical and wants to be sure he is making the right change. Of course as fans, we will either be closer to one type than the other and if we lose, we have the benefit of hindsight. I am more a change it straight away merchant, so will be critical when I feel Chrissy takes too long – but it doesn’t mean I am right as we will never know what would have happened had a different change been made sooner – we only know the change that was made worked or didn’t work.
Of course we have our beliefs so will be critical when we lose and we think we could have done more to prevent it. And a manager can learn and change through experience. Some of the challenges Chrissy is facing are new. In League One we were a big side- In the Championship we are one of the smaller ones resource wise. What works in one league may not work so well in others.
The upshot of all that is – I will continue to be critical of Chrissy’s tactics when I think that criticism is warranted. Whether I am right or wrong. But, I also know that he is the right man for the job for a whole host of reasons and it is against the interests of the club to replace him. I think RD will learn this as he gets to know Chrissy more. I certainly hope so.