There's a difference surely between telling someone that they are a shot no good Cnut who will never succeed at the highest level ( slagging someone off )
Or saying
I don't believe he will live to the full potential I think he lacks consistency and currently the ability to be a really good champ winger
( not slagging off but debating )
I get the fact he is 20 and maybe it is too soon but I think we have seen many a CH in the past and they have all gone the same way
And I stand by if you were to choose before the last 2 games who to release permanently out of
DP JC CH
And add Lennon and Fox into that list
CH would be the one that highest % agreed should go
It's not kind I accept that but out of what had been shown up until a week ago CH starting in the first 11 was as welcome by most that were there against Barnsley as a dose
Bit unfair to say who is best out of DP, JC and CH. Diego's wanted by most of europe if you believe the papers and Cousins by Arsenal amongst others. They are two outstanding players. Now name the rest of the youth group that CH,DP and JC came up with and let's see how many anyone has actually seen play let alone score and make goals at championship level.
Lennon and Fox have played ten games between them and Lennon was by no means assured when he played. Was at fault for the Sheff Wed goal in one of his three games (if my memory serves me correctly)
Fox has looked OK but hasn't pulled up any trees.
Harriott was our third top scorer and won us three vital games (Sheff wed 2 assists, Watford, Blackpool)
How good was JC when played on the right wing? god awful is the answer and there were threads on here asking whether he should continue to be selected
I can't understand why people are getting on his back so much, put him in a confident team, in his right position and he will blow hot and cold BUT he can win you games. Lennon and Fox won't be winning you many games
Harriott not a right winger but perhaps a la Henri he is an inside forward... Not about letting him go but all about building a team around Poyet, Cousins, Solly, Wiggins (Fox) Jackson and whoever we retain. Let's see what next seasons squad looks like
You've missed the bit where I said prior to the last two games
I think it's a very fair comparison when answered in context
up to a week ago CH had done nothing to warrant a place in the starting 11 and had we had another winger at the club wouldn't have been playing
To assess his ability fairly and in context you have to also take into account his form last season when the team was actually playing well. It's very hard for a winger to play well in a poor team. They don't see so much of the ball, and when they do, they are under far more pressure to do something with it. For the first time this season, against Blackpool, the team was playing without pressure and was playing well in the second half. Callum Harriot scored three goals. That tells me what this lad could do in a good, confident, footballing side.
Have we had a truly popular winger since John Robinson? And he was popular only because he wasn't a traditional winger, and was much more of a workman.
Sorry NLA, I know you're only looking for a 'debate', but calling an attacking winger inconsistent is redundant. Harriott will be inconsistent for the rest of his career because he's an attacking winger.
I must've been posting on here and netaddicks for about 8+ years, and I can't tell you how many times I've seen this exact same conversation about every attacking winger that's ever played for us. We just can't stand flair wingers at Charlton. In fact, heaven help anyone who ever does so much as a single stepover.
Have we had a truly popular winger since John Robinson? And he was popular only because he wasn't a traditional winger, and was much more of a workman.
Sorry NLA, I know you're only looking for a 'debate', but calling an attacking winger inconsistent is redundant. Harriott will be inconsistent for the rest of his career because he's an attacking winger.
I must've been posting on here and netaddicks for about 8+ years, and I can't tell you how many times I've seen this exact same conversation about every attacking winger that's ever played for us. We just can't stand flair wingers at Charlton. In fact, heaven help anyone who ever does so much as a single stepover.
Maybe that's a reflection of the kind of team that we've developed into over recent years. The emphasis has been placed on hard graft, commitment and utility players, rather than attractive, open, offensive football incorporating players of great flair and skill. I get the impression that someone like Riga believes that this is how football should be played, which can only be a good thing for players like Harriot. I would be more than happy to see a completely different approach as to the kind of football that we play. Some of my finest memories involve flair players such as Colin Powell, Flanagan, Simonson, Morts etc.
This is a weird thread. Callum did very well in the last few games of the season. This was particularly impressive as he'd had a shocker against Barnsley and there are question marks over his footballing mentality, so to come back from that was superb. However, there's a lot of comments claiming that he can't be criticised because of his end of season form. There is no criticism possible for his end of season form, but looking at the season as a whole it should rank as a disappointing one for him. He ended last season well with little pressure on him, was given the number 11 shirt and no competition at the start of this one and bottled it completely. Not too surprising; he's young, he's a confidence player and there was possibly too much on his shoulders. The lack of competition also extended to a lack of support in that there really wasn't anyone to share the burden. He dropped out of the side and didn't do anything to reclaim his place until Sheffield Wednesday in February, then subsequently didn't maintain his level of performance. He drifted in and out of the side and only really staked a claim in the last three games. That's not good enough. He's shown that he has the talent, and that he can get his head back up when he's struggled which is encouraging but this season has provided very little return based on the talent we know he has.
This season shouldn't be looked at solely as a young player being inconsistent but as a player with a lot of potential not making the most of his talent on the whole and turning in too many poor performances. And I see this as constructive, but it's important to make the distinction between the two. Of course as a young player he should be protected from a certain amount of criticism but Callum has had a poor season even within the slightly more lenient boundaries of a youngster. The form in the last few games has been brilliant but it must be maintained to a higher standard, and there's nothing wrong with saying that even in the light of recent outings.
Harriott is inconsistent at the moment, but guess what? He's 20 years old.
He's a very good player for his age and definitely has the potential to get a lot better. All players at that age are inconsistent (even the likes of Barkley & Sterling are) so we just have to stick with them and we will get the rewards. We've seen what he's capable of in the last 3 games.
Harriott showed us that he is good enough for this level and I expect him to kick on next season.
We should be building a team next season around the homegrown lads; Poyet, Cousins, Harriott, Fox and Gomez.
This is callums 2nd season and really only his first full season. i said earlier in the year that many young players have 2nd season syndrome where they are found out, I believe that Michael Owen had a tough 2nd season.
Do you mean when Michael Owen got the Premier League Golden Boot, and PFA Young Player of the year in 97/98 and went to the World Cup, or when he got the Premier League Golden Boot (18 in 30 games) and 2nd in PFA Young Player in 98/99?
Yes Callum is young but let's not try to say he is a pup at 20 this was his second full season and hopefully he has another 15 ahead of him and I honestly hope it's with us as it would mean he has come good
Yes Callum is young but let's not try to say he is a pup at 20 this was his second full season and hopefully he has another 15 ahead of him and I honestly hope it's with us as it would mean he has come good
good. In spain and germany they don't make a judgement on the player's long term ability until they hit 22/23. Unbelievable that we released players when they were 18, mostly because they weren't strong enough, tall enough etc. A big example of an english player being allowed to develop at his own pace is Adam Lallana. He's now a shoe in for the world cup.
A lot more patience is needed with young english players.
Yes Callum is young but let's not try to say he is a pup at 20 this was his second full season and hopefully he has another 15 ahead of him and I honestly hope it's with us as it would mean he has come good
good. In spain and germany they don't make a judgement on the player's long term ability until they hit 22/23. Unbelievable that we released players when they were 18, mostly because they weren't strong enough, tall enough etc. A big example of an english player being allowed to develop at his own pace is Adam Lallana. He's now a shoe in for the world cup.
A lot more patience is needed with young english players.
Agree with this. Pretty sure i read that performance scientists believe that the average professional footballer reaches their peak around 27/28.
So every player in the academy should get a contract until they are 22/23 no matter how crap they are because some scientist said so? Please come back down to earth.
Tamer Tuna weren't playing 2nd flight football when he was 20 though.
Give Harriott time, let see what he's doing when he's mid 20's.
Lloyd Sam was given time, didn't improve by the time he was 26, and got bombed. If Callum goes the same way, then so be it, but i think he's got a lot more promise than Sam.
So every player in the academy should get a contract until they are 22/23 no matter how crap they are because some scientist said so? Please come back down to earth.
players who are technically not up to scratch should be released once they're deemed not good enough. We shouldn't release players because they "arent consistent" or "aren't tall/strong/quick enough" as is consistantly the case across the country. Decision making, consistency and strength come through games and training. It's far easier for a 20 year old to learn how to make decisions under pressure and to hit the gym and eat correctly than it is to give them technique training, which should be done at a much much younger age.
So every player in the academy should get a contract until they are 22/23 no matter how crap they are because some scientist said so? Please come back down to earth.
players who are technically not up to scratch should be released once they're deemed not good enough. We shouldn't release players because they "arent consistent" or "aren't tall/strong/quick enough" as is consistantly the case across the country. Decision making, consistency and strength come through games and training. It's far easier for a 20 year old to learn how to make decisions under pressure and to hit the gym and eat correctly than it is to give them technique training, which should be done at a much much younger age.
Its a nice thought and in a perfect world maybe we could keep them on.
However i don't feel the modern game would allow such paitence. Our academy are producing players and giving them a chance but to every Poyet, cousins , Harriot and fox there are many, many more who won't make the grade quick enough and will be released.
So every player in the academy should get a contract until they are 22/23 no matter how crap they are because some scientist said so? Please come back down to earth.
players who are technically not up to scratch should be released once they're deemed not good enough. We shouldn't release players because they "arent consistent" or "aren't tall/strong/quick enough" as is consistantly the case across the country. Decision making, consistency and strength come through games and training. It's far easier for a 20 year old to learn how to make decisions under pressure and to hit the gym and eat correctly than it is to give them technique training, which should be done at a much much younger age.
Its a nice thought and in a perfect world maybe we could keep them on.
However i don't feel the modern game would allow such paitence. Our academy are producing players and giving them a chance but to every Poyet, cousins , Harriot and fox there are many, many more who won't make the grade quick enough and will be released.
Bayern Munich and Barcelona are doing pretty well with the policy i mentioned...
So every player in the academy should get a contract until they are 22/23 no matter how crap they are because some scientist said so? Please come back down to earth.
players who are technically not up to scratch should be released once they're deemed not good enough. We shouldn't release players because they "arent consistent" or "aren't tall/strong/quick enough" as is consistantly the case across the country. Decision making, consistency and strength come through games and training. It's far easier for a 20 year old to learn how to make decisions under pressure and to hit the gym and eat correctly than it is to give them technique training, which should be done at a much much younger age.
Its a nice thought and in a perfect world maybe we could keep them on.
However i don't feel the modern game would allow such paitence. Our academy are producing players and giving them a chance but to every Poyet, cousins , Harriot and fox there are many, many more who won't make the grade quick enough and will be released.
Bayern Munich and Barcelona are doing pretty well with the policy i mentioned...
They can clearly afford paitence. They are european super clubs who pluck the best from around the world. Not even a comparison to 99% of other clubs.
So every player in the academy should get a contract until they are 22/23 no matter how crap they are because some scientist said so? Please come back down to earth.
players who are technically not up to scratch should be released once they're deemed not good enough. We shouldn't release players because they "arent consistent" or "aren't tall/strong/quick enough" as is consistantly the case across the country. Decision making, consistency and strength come through games and training. It's far easier for a 20 year old to learn how to make decisions under pressure and to hit the gym and eat correctly than it is to give them technique training, which should be done at a much much younger age.
Its a nice thought and in a perfect world maybe we could keep them on.
However i don't feel the modern game would allow such paitence. Our academy are producing players and giving them a chance but to every Poyet, cousins , Harriot and fox there are many, many more who won't make the grade quick enough and will be released.
Bayern Munich and Barcelona are doing pretty well with the policy i mentioned...
They can clearly afford paitence. They are european super clubs who pluck the best from around the world. Not even a comparison to 99% of other clubs.
Well, the other spanish and german sides seem to be doing the same thing as well. Put your head in the sand, fine. But this is a major issue with english football and is a big reason behind why we don't have any players who can put in that killer pass except for those that haven't sunk but swam against the current such as Gerrard and barkley and why we're terrible at keeping the ball compared to other sides. Attitudes like yours are part of the problem.
Harriott had maybe 2-3 really fantastic games this season, luckily/unluckily they all came right at the death and are the freshest in the memory and overwrite the fact that before he hit that form he wasn't merely ineffective, he was outright poor. He's proven he has definitely got the ability but next season we will see which was the exception, and which the rule. Wingers are by nature confidence players and go through patches, but Harriott playing badly is actually to the detriment of the team for me - a lot of attacking moves break down when he's not on his game, not to mention even simple shots/passes go badly awry.
In contrast, with someone like Wilson even if his attacking contribution is not always the best, he does a lot of harrying/hustling and defensive work and his speed alone makes him someone the opposition need to keep an eye on, there is a physical aspect to Wilson's game that Harriott hasn't got, and probably never will - he's not going to get any taller, unlikely to bulk up that much and probably isn't suddenly going to find a sudden burst of extra speed from somewhere.
This isn't a Wilson vs Harriott post - both of them have strengths and weaknesses, and different roles to play - in my eyes, Wilson is a wide midfielder, and Harriott a winger, similar but not identical roles, and in an ideal world a team with the pair of them on each wing would be very hard for most Championship defences to handle, especially with Solly and Wiggins as fullbacks. Harriott has earned himself the starting position on the left next season short of a truly stellar, top notch signing - but I would definitely like a proven/experienced winger signed as a reserve option as I would not bet on Harriott maintaining form over a whole season.
Comments
Or saying
I don't believe he will live to the full potential I think he lacks consistency and currently the ability to be a really good champ winger
( not slagging off but debating )
I get the fact he is 20 and maybe it is too soon but I think we have seen many a CH in the past and they have all gone the same way
And I stand by if you were to choose before the last 2 games who to release permanently out of
DP
JC
CH
And add Lennon and Fox into that list
CH would be the one that highest % agreed should go
It's not kind I accept that but out of what had been shown up until a week ago CH starting in the first 11 was as welcome by most that were there against Barnsley as a dose
Lennon and Fox have played ten games between them and Lennon was by no means assured when he played. Was at fault for the Sheff Wed goal in one of his three games (if my memory serves me correctly)
Fox has looked OK but hasn't pulled up any trees.
Harriott was our third top scorer and won us three vital games (Sheff wed 2 assists, Watford, Blackpool)
How good was JC when played on the right wing? god awful is the answer and there were threads on here asking whether he should continue to be selected
I can't understand why people are getting on his back so much, put him in a confident team, in his right position and he will blow hot and cold BUT he can win you games. Lennon and Fox won't be winning you many games
Let's see what next seasons squad looks like
I think it's a very fair comparison when answered in context
up to a week ago CH had done nothing to warrant a place in the starting 11 and had we had another winger at the club wouldn't have been playing
Next season I believe we will find out more about CH than any other cafc player
Sorry NLA, I know you're only looking for a 'debate', but calling an attacking winger inconsistent is redundant. Harriott will be inconsistent for the rest of his career because he's an attacking winger.
I must've been posting on here and netaddicks for about 8+ years, and I can't tell you how many times I've seen this exact same conversation about every attacking winger that's ever played for us. We just can't stand flair wingers at Charlton. In fact, heaven help anyone who ever does so much as a single stepover.
I love it when Callum does the step overs he seems to do it so quick
The only thing is he is more likely to stack it and fall on his arse than do it to get past a player or deliver a shot/ cross that results in a goal
And that's my biggest issue
He has it in his locker but he can't get anything out of the locker
Danny Green
Callum Harriott
Miguel Llera
Which one would you keep?
But one is a shirt selling div 2 player the other is Danny green
This season shouldn't be looked at solely as a young player being inconsistent but as a player with a lot of potential not making the most of his talent on the whole and turning in too many poor performances. And I see this as constructive, but it's important to make the distinction between the two. Of course as a young player he should be protected from a certain amount of criticism but Callum has had a poor season even within the slightly more lenient boundaries of a youngster. The form in the last few games has been brilliant but it must be maintained to a higher standard, and there's nothing wrong with saying that even in the light of recent outings.
My hope is he can work on this and become the player we're all hoping he can be, but we'll have to wait and see...............
He's a very good player for his age and definitely has the potential to get a lot better. All players at that age are inconsistent (even the likes of Barkley & Sterling are) so we just have to stick with them and we will get the rewards. We've seen what he's capable of in the last 3 games.
Harriott showed us that he is good enough for this level and I expect him to kick on next season.
We should be building a team next season around the homegrown lads; Poyet, Cousins, Harriott, Fox and Gomez.
Yes Callum is young but let's not try to say he is a pup at 20 this was his second full season and hopefully he has another 15 ahead of him and I honestly hope it's with us as it would mean he has come good
A lot more patience is needed with young english players.
Give Harriott time, let see what he's doing when he's mid 20's.
Lloyd Sam was given time, didn't improve by the time he was 26, and got bombed. If Callum goes the same way, then so be it, but i think he's got a lot more promise than Sam.
However i don't feel the modern game would allow such paitence. Our academy are producing players and giving them a chance but to every Poyet, cousins , Harriot and fox there are many, many more who won't make the grade quick enough and will be released.
You can say he is young yep I accept that and it's a positive because when young your fearless
But let's not hide from the fact that apart from the last two games Callum had a really poor season
As did the rest of the team granted
But when you ain't creating it's the area of focus and I don't think it's being too critical to question him
In contrast, with someone like Wilson even if his attacking contribution is not always the best, he does a lot of harrying/hustling and defensive work and his speed alone makes him someone the opposition need to keep an eye on, there is a physical aspect to Wilson's game that Harriott hasn't got, and probably never will - he's not going to get any taller, unlikely to bulk up that much and probably isn't suddenly going to find a sudden burst of extra speed from somewhere.
This isn't a Wilson vs Harriott post - both of them have strengths and weaknesses, and different roles to play - in my eyes, Wilson is a wide midfielder, and Harriott a winger, similar but not identical roles, and in an ideal world a team with the pair of them on each wing would be very hard for most Championship defences to handle, especially with Solly and Wiggins as fullbacks. Harriott has earned himself the starting position on the left next season short of a truly stellar, top notch signing - but I would definitely like a proven/experienced winger signed as a reserve option as I would not bet on Harriott maintaining form over a whole season.