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RD doesn't like it if you don't play the players from his network

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    I just cannot buy into all this conspiracy stuff. It makes no sense.

    With respect, i struggle to see how you can take such an entrenched positive stance when they have been a number of either questionable decisions, or things that leave you scratching your head.

    The Riga situation is one, and well covered.

    So is the lack of supposed action with players like Morrison.

    So is the blanket silence / new cold approach to people leaving the club like Riga, and players who have served us well over the last few years

    The 'who selects our squad' is another. I think we can all agree its being done in Belgium, not in Charlton, and our best guess at the moment seems to be that a big piece of this jigsaw is made up of an Israeli football agent, and a Belgium Division 3 manager. But we've no idea who else feeds into that working group, and who the decision maker would be (it clearly isn't Duchatelet)

    What the motive is in accumulating so many clubs ?

    I just don't see how any of it is firm enough for anyone to nail their colours to the mast in full support of yet.

    You missed sacking Powell. Or did you?
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    I think TRR some of what you've been told is true


    The email part is most definitely true but SHG has nailed it all the players we have currently are network players

    But look at it another way


    Name all the signings powelly made and then mark them success or failure and when we get to the same number for the next mgrs of cafc let's measure it then

    Until that point we are no different to any other club

    I get that all our players are now "network players," but it's quite clear that when I refer to network players in that context that I mean Standard Liege players plus Nego, not those already contracted to Charlton pre-Duchatelet.
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    Chunes said:


    I just cannot buy into all this conspiracy stuff. It makes no sense.

    With respect, i struggle to see how you can take such an entrenched positive stance when they have been a number of either questionable decisions, or things that leave you scratching your head.

    The Riga situation is one, and well covered.

    So is the lack of supposed action with players like Morrison.

    So is the blanket silence / new cold approach to people leaving the club like Riga, and players who have served us well over the last few years

    The 'who selects our squad' is another. I think we can all agree its being done in Belgium, not in Charlton, and our best guess at the moment seems to be that a big piece of this jigsaw is made up of an Israeli football agent, and a Belgium Division 3 manager. But we've no idea who else feeds into that working group, and who the decision maker would be (it clearly isn't Duchatelet)

    What the motive is in accumulating so many clubs ?

    I just don't see how any of it is firm enough for anyone to nail their colours to the mast in full support of yet.

    You missed sacking Powell. Or did you?
    No. I was one of Powell's biggest supporters, but a bad situation had been created (which i don't blame him for) and something had to give.

    It was always going to be him.
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    se9addick said:

    What usually follows the phrase "shop window" is the word dummy. Showcasing talent is one thing but that will get you relegated without question. Leaving a devalued shop window.

    I just cannot buy into all this conspiracy stuff. It makes no sense.

    But can you make any sense of the Riga situation ? None of it makes much sense.
    I wanted Riga too.

    My guess is that Peeters has been scouted by RD's advisors for some time and was always top of the list to replace Powell. He couldn't come in at the time of Chris's sacking because he was in post and possibly because RD wasn't sure which division Charlton would end up in but Riga was known and was available. Riga's success at The Valley was never going to deflect RD from the appointment of his identified and researched choice...Peeters.

    As soon as our season ended contact was made and Peeters was sounded out. When it became clear he was interested Riga was surplus. I suspect Riga was kept hanging around without knowing was a fall back position for RD in the event that the Peeters deal was not concluded.

    It's the only explanation I can see that fits but it just my opinion.

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    se9addick said:

    What usually follows the phrase "shop window" is the word dummy. Showcasing talent is one thing but that will get you relegated without question. Leaving a devalued shop window.

    I just cannot buy into all this conspiracy stuff. It makes no sense.

    But can you make any sense of the Riga situation ? None of it makes much sense.
    My guess is that Peeters has been scouted by RD's advisors for some time and was always top of the list to replace Powell. He couldn't come in at the time of Chris's sacking because he was in post and possibly because RD wasn't sure which division Charlton would end up in but Riga was known and was available. Riga's success at The Valley was never going to deflect RD from the appointment of his identified and researched choice...Peeters.

    As soon as our season ended contact was made and Peeters was sounded out. When it became clear he was interested Riga was surplus. I suspect Riga was kept hanging around without knowing was a fall back position for RD in the event that the Peeters deal was not concluded.

    It's the only explanation I can see that fits but it just my opinion.

    But SHG i would buy that if there was something stand-out in Peeters history to support that. But (to me), it just doesn't:

    - He only started work at his club in December 13. Don't you think it would be highly doubtful he would have made it only RD's advisors hit-list after 1 month in the job?

    - Before that he was out of work for a year having been sacked from a managers job he was in for less than two months where he didn't record a single win.
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    se9addick said:

    What usually follows the phrase "shop window" is the word dummy. Showcasing talent is one thing but that will get you relegated without question. Leaving a devalued shop window.

    I just cannot buy into all this conspiracy stuff. It makes no sense.

    But can you make any sense of the Riga situation ? None of it makes much sense.
    My guess is that Peeters has been scouted by RD's advisors for some time and was always top of the list to replace Powell. He couldn't come in at the time of Chris's sacking because he was in post and possibly because RD wasn't sure which division Charlton would end up in but Riga was known and was available. Riga's success at The Valley was never going to deflect RD from the appointment of his identified and researched choice...Peeters.

    As soon as our season ended contact was made and Peeters was sounded out. When it became clear he was interested Riga was surplus. I suspect Riga was kept hanging around without knowing was a fall back position for RD in the event that the Peeters deal was not concluded.

    It's the only explanation I can see that fits but it just my opinion.

    But SHG i would buy that if there was something stand-out in Peeters history to support that. But (to me), it just doesn't:

    - He only started work at his club in December 13. Don't you think it would be highly doubtful he would have made it only RD's advisors hit-list after 1 month in the job?

    - Before that he was out of work for a year having been sacked from a managers job he was in for less than two months where he didn't record a single win.
    Very good points. Perhaps byl is right in that Peeters reputation and standing is higher than his track record shows.

    I honestly can't come up with anything else.

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    I just cannot buy into all this conspiracy stuff. It makes no sense.

    With respect, i struggle to see how you can take such an entrenched positive stance when they have been a number of either questionable decisions, or things that leave you scratching your head.

    The Riga situation is one, and well covered.

    So is the lack of supposed action with players like Morrison.

    So is the blanket silence / new cold approach to people leaving the club like Riga, and players who have served us well over the last few years

    The 'who selects our squad' is another. I think we can all agree its being done in Belgium, not in Charlton, and our best guess at the moment seems to be that a big piece of this jigsaw is made up of an Israeli football agent, and a Belgium Division 3 manager. But we've no idea who else feeds into that working group, and who the decision maker would be (it clearly isn't Duchatelet)

    What the motive is in accumulating so many clubs ?

    I just don't see how any of it is firm enough for anyone to nail their colours to the mast in full support of yet.

    I can't totally agree I am afraid. Morrison has been offered a new contract, as have many of our other established players - Hamer and Dervite have both gone, but to clubs with lots of money and both 'big names' - with a distinct possibtility of Premiership football besides. The players that have been released are pretty unanimously agreed to be not realistically good enough for what the club should be aiming for - a shame, but a fact of football.

    The silence re: Riga is a shame, but his departure is hardly some nebulous conspiracy - RD clearly wants someone else to be manager/head coach, as is his right, it being his club and his money. The last time he made a change in management, it worked out pretty well. Would I like to know his reasoning? Yes of course. Am I entitled to it? Nope.

    As to 'who selects our squad' - we DON'T know who is responsible right now, we certainly do not know it is being done in Belgium - there have been NO signings from within or without the network thus far this summer, merely hearsay and gossip. People are banging on about how as soon as Bob 'Toady' Peeters appears we will suddenly have an influx of Liege cast-offs - well that hasn't happened yet and no-one has actually proven to my liking that this is a cast iron fact rather than a prediction based on opinions of RD. If the scenario does occur, I will be as worried as anyone, but it hasn't yet.

    The motive in buying so many clubs is still unclear in specifics, but clear enough in general principle - RD has some vision/plan in how football could/should be run in future without racking up enormous debt. If he's right or wrong, we shall see.

    I am not nailing my colours to the mast in full support, that won't happen til next season at the earliest - but neither am I viewing every single decision made as part of some idiotic/malevolent scheme to systematically destroy Charlton as a club with it's own history and identity, as some are convinced is the case.
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    se9addick said:

    What usually follows the phrase "shop window" is the word dummy. Showcasing talent is one thing but that will get you relegated without question. Leaving a devalued shop window.

    I just cannot buy into all this conspiracy stuff. It makes no sense.

    But can you make any sense of the Riga situation ? None of it makes much sense.
    My guess is that Peeters has been scouted by RD's advisors for some time and was always top of the list to replace Powell. He couldn't come in at the time of Chris's sacking because he was in post and possibly because RD wasn't sure which division Charlton would end up in but Riga was known and was available. Riga's success at The Valley was never going to deflect RD from the appointment of his identified and researched choice...Peeters.

    As soon as our season ended contact was made and Peeters was sounded out. When it became clear he was interested Riga was surplus. I suspect Riga was kept hanging around without knowing was a fall back position for RD in the event that the Peeters deal was not concluded.

    It's the only explanation I can see that fits but it just my opinion.

    But SHG i would buy that if there was something stand-out in Peeters history to support that. But (to me), it just doesn't:

    - He only started work at his club in December 13. Don't you think it would be highly doubtful he would have made it only RD's advisors hit-list after 1 month in the job?

    - Before that he was out of work for a year having been sacked from a managers job he was in for less than two months where he didn't record a single win.
    Very good points. Perhaps byl is right in that Peeters reputation and standing is higher than his track record shows.

    I honestly can't come up with anything else.

    The only thing i put into consideration of 'why Peeters?' is that i'm sure i read he is a very popular TV pundit in Belgium, which has given him a higher profile to that of what his managerial record would have led him to.

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    If you were trying to solve a crime one of the things you'd want to understand is motive.

    What nobody has explained is what Duchatelet would be seeking to achieve if he forced his Coaches and/or Managers to play network signings who simply aren't good enough for the team they've joined.

    How does such an approach add value, exactly? Why would he do it?

    Well, while I basically agree with your overall scepticism, there is one rational business answer, at least as to why they were sent. They were removed from Standard's wage bill. They were added to our wage bill, but were probably cheaper than targets CP had, or wished to keep. That is an assumption about how The Network organises its cost of labour, but its a reasonable one (and of course you identified that other Standard players are out on loan in the network). If they then had playing time, and CAFC had improved their results with them playing, it would have been an early vindication of his - unproven - network strategy.
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    If you were trying to solve a crime one of the things you'd want to understand is motive.

    What nobody has explained is what Duchatelet would be seeking to achieve if he forced his Coaches and/or Managers to play network signings who simply aren't good enough for the team they've joined.

    How does such an approach add value, exactly? Why would he do it?

    Well, while I basically agree with your overall scepticism, there is one rational business answer, at least as to why they were sent. They were removed from Standard's wage bill. They were added to our wage bill, but were probably cheaper than targets CP had, or wished to keep. That is an assumption about how The Network organises its cost of labour, but its a reasonable one (and of course you identified that other Standard players are out on loan in the network). If they then had playing time, and CAFC had improved their results with them playing, it would have been an early vindication of his - unproven - network strategy.
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    I can't be bothered with any of it right now..
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    The interesting thing for me about the Peeters appointment (if it exists) is that maybe it shows that it is an essential part of RD's make-up to do the risky and unexpected rather than the safe and conventional.

    He's been a successful businessman and obviously made a lot of good decisions. Maybe some of those were astonishing ideas out of left field - I don't know.

    But now he is playing, not working. We know he is interested in original ideas and lateral thinking. Mix that with a bit of the vanity which comes with age and success. Maybe the outcome is a man who is only really interested in further success if it is achieved unconventionally and with his own stamp on it.

    So, if the obvious decision might be to appoint Riga, he doesn't do that simply because that is what everyone else in his position would do. Better to produce Peeters out of a hat and enjoy the gasps of amazement. If it succeeds, they become gasps of amazement at his brilliance.

    Peeters might be a stunning appointment (I hope so). Maybe there is something in him (rather than in his stats) that has caught the eye in Belgium. And maybe that was what RD wanted. Someone from "nowhere" that he has discovered who, if he succeeds, will further add to RD's reputation as an original thinker, risk-taker and genius.

    As good an explanation as any ?
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    See the Dyer Gone thread for a bit more substance behind the rumours...
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    Seems the SLP piece has blown many of the opinions on this thread including mine out of the water.

    Is it too late for me to join the sceptics ;0)

    Bit concerned now.

    What SHG said! Oh dear.
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    Seems the SLP piece has blown many of the opinions on this thread including mine out of the water.

    Is it too late for me to join the sceptics ;0)

    Bit concerned now.

    Sad thing is we all want the best for Charlton, regardless of whether you are a sceptic or not, if these stories are true, which seems likely, we'll all be the losers.
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    Geez, just seen that. Maybe the evidence of mismanagement is emerging after all...
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    exactly right @Nug‌

    Just because, for example, myself and SHG clearly have expressed different opinions / stances over the last couple of months (as seen on this thread), don't mean we can't debate them through and know that both parties just desperately want the best for our club.

    There is no real right or wrong, and its so important people don't get themselves split into 'camps' because you end up getting all tied up with periphery stuff to justify your stance / ridicule an opposing stance. Never forget we are all fundamentally from the same 'camp' and ultimately want the same things in the big picture.
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    My own personal views/observations:

    perhaps network players that are on long contracts and that may accumulate value or retain it by playing in the Championship (not that I am necessarily agreeing) would be the reason to play them over existing network players that don't have unrealised potential.

    Of course it could just be an ego I am the boss thing too, not that I am agreeing with that either.

    I do agree much of it is puzzling, and if you let it be - very frustrating - the Riga thing particularly. RD seems to have his own way of doing things, and that is pretty much that. Would be great if he could let us in on it (the fans) rather than constantly having to speculate and puzzle over it - enough to drive someone up the wall, for sanity's sake I am trying to watch the Summer business play out, similarly to Powell's first squad build.

    Also worth looking back at what happened with Liege, its strikingly similar, lots of coaches in and out, youth talent, selling higher earners. What is mainly different is the scale, the network, and English football of course, and possibly other stuff. One hopes we are in a less precarious position than under TJ and Co, but even that is debatable, I personally don't buy the admin thing or that if it happened it would necessarily mean the end of the world.

    Bottom line is we are part of an experimental network of clubs, life is not going to be simple while we are in that set up.
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    there is one thing I'd add, what are the implications on attracting players into that set up, does that account for why we failed in the January transfer and loan windows?
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    Ego rules OK? The basic question remains unanswered and that is why did Ratty decide that football would be his next project? His political movement failed so WTF is going on his mathematical brain?
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    he thinks he can do what he did at Liege on a larger more lucrative scale I would suggest
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    another thing yet to be proven is that method for assessing players is up to the job of meeting the demand of the Championship, the summer should tell us that
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    Personally i feel that RD and Charlton will be a success, we'll make it back to the promised land of the prem, but we'll do it kicking and screaming and pissing everyone off in the process. RD is rapidly unwinding the "friendly club" atmosphere that gets sold to players and managers when they come here that Richard Murray spent so long constructing and, to an extent, TJ and Slater at least sanctioned the signings of players who we as supporters could relate to and knew, despite their limited abilities, they worked hard. We'll develop some acadamy players and eventually get a decent few discoveries from europe amongst a lot of crap and make it up that way. But there will not be any stability. We'll be just another football club, a long, long cry from the days of Lennie, Gritt and Curbs. That's my real fear about Duchatelet's ownership, despite (i believe) the success that will come eventually on the pitch.
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    Seems the SLP piece has blown many of the opinions on this thread including mine out of the water.

    Is it too late for me to join the sceptics ;0)

    Bit concerned now.

    I'm with you SHG, moving from supporting wait and see to skeptical. Whatevere the situation though we just need to see some movement and action, I know its only just the end of the season but as Andy Hughes said all the potentially decent players will be gone soon, should be an announcement today re Bob and start bringing in players asap, so we can see the direction we are going in.
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    gonna hazard a guess.......

    image
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    mrbligh said:

    gonna hazard a guess.......

    image

    I take it us fans are following the black arrow like lemmings!!!
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    If you look at transfermarkt there is a really big clue as to what went on. Simple explanation without apportioning blame and hoping lessons are learnt.
    The overall CAFC squad is valued at around £13-14m. This includes the six players arriving in January are valued at £5m! IMHO the only accurate valuation is Ajdarevic at £625k - the same as Morrison, Dervite and a couple of others. Thuram at £1.6m is just unreal but someone paid this for him even though he was a free transfer earlier in his french club career. And Nego and Koc at 400k? Let's not go into Reza at 825k! On the other hand Sordell started to show his value right at the end with some clinical finishing.
    I believe that RD and his advisors may well have had a similar view as to the value of the arrivals and hence their potential contribution to the squad. He didn't do this with malice but because Luzon said they were surplus, and they had been tracking Piotr.
    @byl‌ and @vff‌ have had an exchange on the relative merits of the Championship and Jupiler league - hopefully Duchatelet has his view better calibrated now.
    The ten players recently released are valued at 2m or less... Let's see who turns up for the squad over the summer.
    Re. The cup quarter final, there may well have been tensions by then but the performance live on TV was shocking and the bigger stage of a semi-final and an additional £1.4m was missed.
    I'm sure Duchatelet wants value out of Thuram by playing him in the network or moving him on. But CAFC management were aware of him - hence the response at the VIP meeting when questions were asked.
    Many of us were at the Birmingham game and Evina had a shocker as we lost to a relegation rival. When I spoke to Fraeye after the game he stated unequivocally that Nego would have been a better choice and Nego is right sided.

    The heat was on Powell which we consider unfair in light of the last three years. Duchatelet took over in January, was not convinced and Riga showed that results could be delivered with that squad.

    People know I have looked for the positive and for rational explanations. If Duchatelet does not deliver a head coach and squad additions which take us clear of the bottom six next season then he will have learnt nothing from five months involvement and ownership of CAFC. In short he will be wasting his time and money and ours.
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    My criticism of that selection is that Powell persevered too much with Evina , but Morgan Fox should have been given a chance earlier or even Harry Lennon. So why was Fraeye talking about Nego?
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