I respect your opinion and in a very narrow sense you are absolutely right. However, given that based on their own rule book UEFA are able to "scale down or nullify a disciplinary measure in accordance with the objective and subjective aspects of the offence", I'd be interested to know why, in this case, you believe that the punishment fits the crime. That's a genuine question.
You might be interested in UEFA's statement;
"The UEFA Appeals Body met yesterday following an appeal by Legia Warszawa against the decision taken by the Uefa Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body on 8 August.
"The appeal lodged by the Polish club was rejected and, therefore, the original decision of the Uefa Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body is confirmed.
"The Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body had sanctioned Legia for fielding a suspended player (Article 18 of the Regulations of the UEFA Champions League, 2014/15 competition, and Article 21 of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations, 2014 edition) in the 2014-15 Uefa Champions League third qualifying round return leg against Celtic FC in Edinburgh on 6 August. That match has been declared as a forfeit, meaning Legia lost 3-0."
As might have been expected, this statement makes no attempt whatsoever to explain why UEFA believe the sanction is appropriate in this case or to directly address the basis of Legia's appeal. Not for the first time a very important decision has been made by individuals who would appear to have no obligation to explain themselves or, I'll wager, any real accountability.
I have no interest in either Legia Warsaw or Celtic. I do care about football though and my respect for the officials that run the game, which was already at a very low ebb, has taken another notch down after this incident. It is such a shame that the game that we all devote so much time and emotional energy to, lacks the kind of leadership, that's leadership with vision, courage and integrity, that it deserves.
I can't seem to get myself off this thread. I'll probably mention the problem to my therapist next week.
Anyway, there is another point that I think is worth making and its that the sanction handed down by UEFA is almost random in its impact.
The sanction, as I'm sure everybody knows, is not to remove Legia Warsaw from the competition, but that they forfeit the second leg against Celtic 0-3. That's the sanction. The consequence is that they lose the tie on away goals. However, had Legia won the game in Warsaw 5-1, where they missed two penalties, and received the same, standard sanction they would have gone through 5-4 on aggregate and hence been unpunished. Ironically, UEFA might have chosen to fine them in those circumstances. Or maybe not.
Suppose now that Bereszynski had been sent off in the second qualifying round and hence actually been suspended for both matches against Celtic, but that finding themselves 2-0 down in the second leg with half an hour to go, Legia bring him on, knowing he's suspended. He scores twice and prevents Celtic recovering the deficit from the first leg. Legia have cheated and deserve to be punished. Celtic are awarded the second leg 3-0, but Legia would have gone unpunished had they won the first leg 5-1 rather than 4-1.
One wonders what UEFA would have done had the first leg ended 3-0 to Legia? Who would have gone through? How would UEFA have removed this inconvenient dilemma from their in-tray and airbrushed it from the record books?
It surely can't be right that based on the fact Legia Warsaw missed two penalties in the home leg, a completely innocent and irrelevant administrative error results in a draconian punishment whereas a deliberate attempt to cheat could go unpunished, but these simple anomalies illustrate how muddled, mindless and dysfunctional the decision making has been here.
One can't help admire, in a perverse kind of way, the political astuteness of the senior leadership at football's governing bodies. By appointing "committees", with names including words like "ethics" and "tribunal", which they then claim are independent, they distance themselves from any responsibility for difficult or potentially contentious decisions. If asked about this situation, Michel Platini, who is yet to explain why he voted for Qatar's World Cup bid, would no doubt shrug his shoulders and mumble. If the President has no involvement in or responsibility for issues fundamental to the integrity of the sport it's hard to know quite what the job entails, beyond free tickets to any match he fancies.
Richard Scudamore should never have survived the Tevez debacle and it's aftermath, and would not have done so in an organisation with any semblance of governance and concern for its reputation. However, he appointed an independent tribunal, following the rules in so doing, and it wasn't his fault they screwed up. He's still going strong of course, all these years later, sending inappropriate e-mails and talking about the 39th game again.
I fear that it could be a long session on the couch next week :-)
Regrettably MF, I suspect that you've given a great deal more consideration to the appropriateness of Legia's punishment, the possible alternative sanctions and the potential consequences of each one than UEFA ever would.
MFN, one of the best posts I have read in a while on CL (although as I spend so much time reading the rubbish on the rumours thread maybe that is not the high praise it should be).
As they left him off their team list, I presume another player was added to the team list. How do we know that player was not one of the goalscorers in the previous game.
Got no affiliation to Celtic, I just think playing an ineligble player is unforgivable and standard punishment is forfeiture.
what would have happened if Celtic had lost the first leg 4-0 but were winning the second leg 5-0 and this fella comes on ... they are then awarded the game 3-0 but go out
JOL, would they not have had that other player if they'd registered him as suspended properly?
I dont think so - think there is a limit to amount that are registered (suspended or not) so by not including him among the registered players for those matches, another player has filled that spot.
There are probably some more in the know fans who have followed this closer than I have, but that was my understanding.
I might write to UEFA. Massive injustice on the part of Celtic not to qualify for CL. Reasons behind this. One, the Scottish football league has become so shit that Celtic now have to go through an extra qualifying round. Why should Celtic suffer because they win their league by a billion points now instead of a million. Two, this talk of Scottish independence has obviously sidetracked them. When June Sarpong says Scotland should stay in the union, that's a powerful force essentially hanging over every Scot's head. All involved in the club are thinking, 'fuck, what will June do if we leave'. Training is affected. People can't concentrate etc. Thirdly, Samaras has chosen to stay a free agent, out of work, rather than re-sign. Emotionally that's a kick in the teeth.
And yet they flounce off to play a lucrative friendly rather than their first match of the season. Further devalue a decent league that they and their partners in grime have dismantled with their tawdry cheating over the years. You get the co-efficient you deserve, dirtbags.
Comments
You might be interested in UEFA's statement;
"The UEFA Appeals Body met yesterday following an appeal by Legia Warszawa against the decision taken by the Uefa Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body on 8 August.
"The appeal lodged by the Polish club was rejected and, therefore, the original decision of the Uefa Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body is confirmed.
"The Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body had sanctioned Legia for fielding a suspended player (Article 18 of the Regulations of the UEFA Champions League, 2014/15 competition, and Article 21 of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations, 2014 edition) in the 2014-15 Uefa Champions League third qualifying round return leg against Celtic FC in Edinburgh on 6 August. That match has been declared as a forfeit, meaning Legia lost 3-0."
As might have been expected, this statement makes no attempt whatsoever to explain why UEFA believe the sanction is appropriate in this case or to directly address the basis of Legia's appeal. Not for the first time a very important decision has been made by individuals who would appear to have no obligation to explain themselves or, I'll wager, any real accountability.
I have no interest in either Legia Warsaw or Celtic. I do care about football though and my respect for the officials that run the game, which was already at a very low ebb, has taken another notch down after this incident. It is such a shame that the game that we all devote so much time and emotional energy to, lacks the kind of leadership, that's leadership with vision, courage and integrity, that it deserves.
Anyway, there is another point that I think is worth making and its that the sanction handed down by UEFA is almost random in its impact.
The sanction, as I'm sure everybody knows, is not to remove Legia Warsaw from the competition, but that they forfeit the second leg against Celtic 0-3. That's the sanction. The consequence is that they lose the tie on away goals. However, had Legia won the game in Warsaw 5-1, where they missed two penalties, and received the same, standard sanction they would have gone through 5-4 on aggregate and hence been unpunished. Ironically, UEFA might have chosen to fine them in those circumstances. Or maybe not.
Suppose now that Bereszynski had been sent off in the second qualifying round and hence actually been suspended for both matches against Celtic, but that finding themselves 2-0 down in the second leg with half an hour to go, Legia bring him on, knowing he's suspended. He scores twice and prevents Celtic recovering the deficit from the first leg. Legia have cheated and deserve to be punished. Celtic are awarded the second leg 3-0, but Legia would have gone unpunished had they won the first leg 5-1 rather than 4-1.
One wonders what UEFA would have done had the first leg ended 3-0 to Legia? Who would have gone through? How would UEFA have removed this inconvenient dilemma from their in-tray and airbrushed it from the record books?
It surely can't be right that based on the fact Legia Warsaw missed two penalties in the home leg, a completely innocent and irrelevant administrative error results in a draconian punishment whereas a deliberate attempt to cheat could go unpunished, but these simple anomalies illustrate how muddled, mindless and dysfunctional the decision making has been here.
One can't help admire, in a perverse kind of way, the political astuteness of the senior leadership at football's governing bodies. By appointing "committees", with names including words like "ethics" and "tribunal", which they then claim are independent, they distance themselves from any responsibility for difficult or potentially contentious decisions. If asked about this situation, Michel Platini, who is yet to explain why he voted for Qatar's World Cup bid, would no doubt shrug his shoulders and mumble. If the President has no involvement in or responsibility for issues fundamental to the integrity of the sport it's hard to know quite what the job entails, beyond free tickets to any match he fancies.
Richard Scudamore should never have survived the Tevez debacle and it's aftermath, and would not have done so in an organisation with any semblance of governance and concern for its reputation. However, he appointed an independent tribunal, following the rules in so doing, and it wasn't his fault they screwed up. He's still going strong of course, all these years later, sending inappropriate e-mails and talking about the 39th game again.
I fear that it could be a long session on the couch next week :-)
How do we know that player was not one of the goalscorers in the previous game.
Got no affiliation to Celtic, I just think playing an ineligble player is unforgivable and standard punishment is forfeiture.
There are probably some more in the know fans who have followed this closer than I have, but that was my understanding.
impressive
Disgraceful from UEFA